Arjav Jain
The CIVVER
Does abandoning a city induce the same reputation penalty as razing one?
Thnx
Thnx
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Arjav Jain
The CIVVER
Can anyone explain me thoroughly what is scientific age. What are it's benefits. Also, How can I get a chance to win the game of the month {gotm} .
Thank you
Thank you
I've been away for a while, but last I heard, the Scientific Golden Age was broken. If you try to use it, the game will tell you that something's happening, but it doesn't actually affect research times. If you get an SGL, build a Wonder instead.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Just like Aabraxan said, the age of science doesn't work. It does absolutely nothing so you'd be better off using SGLs to build a wonder. If you want to win the GOTM you'll require a general skill at playing the game which is gained by experience. Also you can read through the articles in the strategy sections to improve your play style.
#c3ctotallynotbroken
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
I noticed recently (in a game where I couldn't get the Hoover Dam) that in the description of the Nuclear Plant, the civilopedia States that a meltdown can cause all hell to break loose. What does this mean exactly. Do we get polluted tiles everywhere in the city or are citizens killed or is it something even worse ? Also what is the probability of something like this happening. (a 100 percent production increase is definitely tempting) . Thanks.
First of all i think you donnot refer to reputation as that is somehing different than AI attitude. You refer to the later. Than the simple answer to your question is yes. But it is more complicated than that. If you wait long enough there will no longer be a penalty. I have not tested it thoroughly enough to reach any conclusion but i suspect it to take 20 turns after which abbandoning a city gives no penalty. But abandon it one turn too early and you will suffer the regular permanent penalty.
how does the AI use it?
If they use it for a Science Golden Age, then I might as well uncheck that option in the editor to make things fair.
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Could you please explain what other penalties ? Are they actually big enough to prevent me from building the nuclear plant ? Also do you know anything about the probability of this happening ?
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Its a very rare chance that anyone actually sees an AI city at the time it has an SGL and that too when playing in debug mode. I don't use the editor much so I don't know if it's possible to give a civ an SGL in the beginning itself. If it is then maybe someone familiar with the editor could try this. Although, what I feel is that the age of science must be broken for both the human player and the AI.
According to the original Civ 3 manual, a nuclear plant has a 50% chance of melting down during any turn in which the host city experiences civil disorder. However, empirical testing indicates that the correct changes are about 10% - 15% (assuming the meltdown chances are a discrete variable, i.e., not influenced by unknown factors such as size of empire, number of city improvements, etc.). Furthermore, it seems as if the nuclear plant will never melt down on the turn that the host city enters into disorder – only if a city is allowed to continue through a full turn in a state of civil disorder is there a chance of meltdown. Although a meltdown graphically looks a lot like the effects of a nuclear blast, the actual effects are far less destructive. A city that experiences a meltdown will have its eight surrounding city tiles polluted and will have its population cut in half. However, neither units nor city improvements (not even the Nuclear Plant itself) will be damaged or destroyed. Furthermore, the pollution in the eight surrounding city tiles will not destroy the underlying terrain improvements such as railroad, roads, mines, etc., and will not cause the terrain itself to degrade (i.e., plains turning to desert). Once the pollution is cleaned up, the city will again grow and eventually return to the state it enjoyed before the meltdown.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
As I understand it, you only get an attitude-hit for abandonment if the city still contains a majority of foreign citizens. So if you're planning to remove a city, and don't care about AI-attitude, you might as well raze it immediately -- you'll get gold depending on the value of improvements in that city (and/or the AI's current treasury, not sure which is more important), and Slaves according to the city-size (not including however many Workers were hiding in there). If you wait 1T so as to sell all the improvements and then abandon it, you might get more gold in total, but you'll get no Slaves from the city-population.
Conversely, abandoning one of your own cities (i.e. one which has ≥50% your citizens) incurs no attitude-hit. So if you want to remove an AI-founded city that you've captured, without getting an attitude-hit -- the most 'ethical' way is to shrink it down to Pop1, then regrow the city back to Pop2 (either by natural growth or by joining a native Worker), giving you 50% of the population. You can then abandon the city with impunity (you get nothing) or rush-build a Settler (which will have foreign nationality, but can be added to another of your cities, or used as a 'combat-settler' as you wish).
Spoiler :
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Meltdowns can only happen if a city goes into disorder, and I have a vague idea that the city has to be in disorder for at least 2T for the Nuke Plant to explode. So if you can keep your Nuke-planted city(s) happy, you'll never get a meltdown.
IIRC, the consequences of a meltdown are similar to a nuclear-missile strike -- pollution all round the city, and a Pop-decrease (half the original population, rounded down?). However, unlike a missile-strike, garrisoned units aren't destroyed, nor are other city-improvements or infrastructure (roads, irrigation, mines) -- so if you have a decent Worker-crew at that point (and you should!), you can clean up the damage fairly quickly. I don't think the polluted terrain gets down-graded either, but I'm really not sure about that.
To be honest, at Monarch level I usually get Hoovers anyway, and that plus Factories has usually been sufficient for building my Spaceship, so I've never felt a serious need to build Nuke-plants. Now I've moved up to Emp (with an eye on DG), I may need to start considering them (if a game lasts that long!).
It's a pain that Civ3 only lets you build them next to freshwater though -- if that were true IRL, Sellafield wouldn't be where it is, and the Fukushima disaster wouldn't have happened...
All true; see my post above taken from:
Power Plants: Everything You Wanted to Know
One thing though, for a Nuke Plant you need fresh water in the 21-tile radius of the city, you don't need to be next to fresh water.
I am rather sure that this is not the case. If you capture a small city and by chance you assimilate all citizens into your culture abandoning will still give you the permanent ai attitude hit.
Gold from capture seems to not depend on city improvements. It seems to be gold in treasury x citizens in the captured city / total amount of citizen in the empire.
If there are any improvements left after capture, than not razing will always give you more money because you get additional money from selling improvements. Also you can still use the city as a road or railroad. Razing has 2 advantages: You make ~ half of the citizens into slaves immediatly and you donnot inherit any unhappiness from whipping or drafting that the city may still have. Abandoning however will make the unhappiness jump to another city of yours.
This is the best method to reduce the population of a city without destroying population by starving or wasting money by gold rushing from zero shields or wasting shields by whipping from zero shields. All those 3 methods are very inefficient. The best method is to disband units in order to get 30 shields for a settler. That will reduce population by 2 in one turn even when there are still resistors left or the city is in riot. Reducing the population too much is often not desirable. Over time all citizens will be assimilated into your culture. As democracy or communist chances are 4% per citizens per turn, for most other governments it is 2%. Feudalism has 3%, Anarchy and Despotism only have 1%.
Whipping population into death is the natural solution as facist because of Xenophobia. Assimilation is the natural solution as communist because corruption is low. As for the rest reducing nonnational citizens to ~ 6 can be a good measure because of drafting. Any citizen above 6 can be drafted, but that works only for national citizens. Also you need a total of 6 citizen to get the we love the king day. That one helps very much against cultural flips.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?threadid=41933
Are you sure about this? My memory is a bit foggy about this, but I believe to remember to have read somewhere
crazyeye that as long as there is one foreign citizen left, you will get an attitude-hit?! In that case you would have to wait for cultural assimilation of the last citzen, which can take quite a while...According to Bamspeedy, starving the city wouldn't help much:
Bamspeedy said:
That would problably be the same hit as starving or killing off workers of the nationality of the relevant nation. That hit affects only that one nation.
Abandoning a taken city without waiting 20 or more turns will cause a global attitude-hit.
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
Are you sure about this? If so, wouldn't that make the Settler-abandonment tactic useless? It would however also explain why Gandhi suddenly got mad at us, late in our SG, when I/we was/were Settler-abandoning English towns...Are you sure about this? My memory is a bit foggy about this, but I believe to remember to have read somewhere
And foreigner-assimilation tends not to happen much in my games -- at least, not in my favour! -- because I don't usually build much (early) Culture: I'll build Libs/Unis for beakers, but Markets for happiness (and gold!) rather than religious buildings -- and never Colosseums -- unless I've drawn a REL-Civ (or am really starved for Luxes). I still haven't got the hang of timing Wonder-prebuilds well yet, so I'll tend to build early mil-units rather than early GWs.
I should probably try seriously for a few 20K/100K wins...
Lord AJ
The Quartermaster
Thanks Theov and tjs282. Appreciate the help. I was wondering how long does the respawn AI setting keep respawning the AI. Although I never played a game with this turned on but it just struck me that this way, getting a Conquest before domination would be impossible. Am I correct ?
