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Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Turner, Apr 23, 2009.

  1. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    Thanks Atishay, but I don't believe anyone asked for that information and nor was it a part of the discussion :)

    Here's my random input - Eat Broccoli, it's good for you, you can buy it in markets and supermarkets :)
     
  2. Lord AJ

    Lord AJ The Quartermaster

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    This was why I said what I said. These lines as I understand them simply say that you're having trouble with finding a map with a coastal start and a fairly nice number of Shields so I suggested map finder which you apparently don't know about since you repeatedly mention reloading to get a satisfactory start.
     
  3. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    I'm not having trouble finding a map, that is entirely you're own interpretation. A bizarre interpretation to boot. I know it's hard to have normal conversations round here, but it helps if you don't add your own invention to posts :)

    Just because people are 'discussing' what makes for a good start, does not imply someone is at their wits end looking for that right start *facepalm*

    I did one game and fancied a chat about it, for heaven's sake...
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I'm not sure. I've mainly been playing GOTMs for the last 7 years or so, and there we can't choose our start position... (Of course, accordingly the 20K finish dates in GOTM games are usually much slower than in the HoF games.) If I remember correctly, the last couple of times that I went for a 20K victory, we had inland starts. And here ST really makes a difference. 21 tiles instead of 12 is, well, not quite double, but it's a lot.
    So the question is, if you can actually choose your start position (as in a HoF game), would you then choose a coastal start or an inland start? Lighthouse and Magellan can probably be replaced by other wonders, doesn't hurt much, if these are the ones the AI gets. But not being able to get the Colossus really hurts. It's a great wonder and it can start accumulating culture from very early on.
    You may be able to compensate for not being on the coast by having access to ivory, because SoZ is also a great culture wonder. But of course, having both, SoZ and Colossus, is even better... :D
    So if I could choose my start position, I would probably take one with access to ocean in such a way that only 2 tiles are required, leaving 19 tiles for production, and of course ivory close by and iron+coal in the BFC (so that I can build the Iron Works...)

    And yes: the finish date in a 20K game is determined to 90% by the start position. The remaining 10% are luck factors like when which AI decides to start which wonder, how lucky you are in the wonder cascades, or when you get your first MGL (so that the Heroic Epic can be built). The HE is also a great culture building. 4cpt at only 200 shields, and if you can get it really early, you don't need to wait so many turns before it makes 8cpt... (Also the SGLs are a luck factor, but as GOTMs are always played with SGLs disabled, I haven't spent much thought on them so far.)
     
  5. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Did you think statistics was only used for unimportant stuff like government policy, economics, census analysis and so forth? It can also be used for the important stuff such as Civ!
     
  6. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    It is possible to have such a start, I've had a couple in my time, but both times I was investigating single city 20k wins and had no interest in HoF-style speed maxing. Like-wise I never start a game with HoF in mind, I tend to just play a start that looks interesting and work-out my victory preference after exploring the area.

    Because I'm a Wonder junky the 20k appeals to me a lot so I'm pretty used to how Regent plays out in this regard from most start positions, though I'm still never too concerned about a specific victory date. It was nice to put myself in a HoF'ers shoes for once though, to have a goal before you even start, it does make you think about the exploits more, though at the price of making the game less chilled.

    I should experiment with inland 20k Wins next, see if I can cure myself of my Colossus addiction :)
     
  7. justanick

    justanick King

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    It is only 21 instead of 13. The city tile gets more valueable when population exceeds 12, but the first 12 regular tiles are likely more valueable the the remaining 8 ones. So it is about 60% increase in total.

    For starting at coast you want to be seafaring, for getting many SGL you want to be scientic making the byzantines the perfect civ for a 20 k victory, possible as a part of an One City Challenge.
     
  8. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    on a learning curve
    if you find that this is the case for you a lot of times, this already gives a *great* hint on who might be the cause for it being so hard.
    t_x
     
  9. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    There is an old joke about the German "Autobahn". Don't know, if it translates well into English, but let me try:

    Voice of the radio traffic service coming out of the radio: "Attention, attention. Be careful everyone, on highway 26 there is a wrong-way driver."
    Man in his car: "One?? --- Hundreds!!!"
     
  10. Lord AJ

    Lord AJ The Quartermaster

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    Anything that's written by someone can be interpreted in many ways and someone saying something on a *PUBLIC* forum or gives any advice according to his own interpretation, then it should be perfectly alright. If however, you find it difficult to participate in conversations with too many people or where viewpoints that differ from your own are presented, you'd be better off using the Private Messages feature.
     
  11. walletta

    walletta King

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    Time for a newbie question, I think: do peoole ever actually steal technologies or spread propaganda? Especially the latter - what does it do?
     
  12. justanick

    justanick King

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    The later can be used to make cities switch allegiance. So if you are willling to spend 20000 Gold one city might overthrow its governour and join your civ. Those 20k Gold on average can can increase even much further if cities are big or your culture is weak. So it is near always no rational choice.

    Stealing technologies however is a cheap alternative to research. In the industrial age research becomes so expensive that stealing is cheap eventhough it might take some tries.
     
  13. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    I've used the later to make cities switch allegiance before. but it costs $huge$ Gold just to make it so one city might overthrow its governour and join your civ. I've seen prices even higher than that though especially if my cities are big or my culture is weak. So I never bother really.

    Stealing technologies is a cheap alternative to research. I sometimes use it in the industrial age, when research becomes so expensive, but it takes a lot of tries.
     
  14. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Yes, this applies. Buttercup (and all), you can always ask for clarification. :)
    Propaganda's not cost-effective, just send in some tanks unless the AI's dug in with a crapload of Spearmen, in which case you're better off sending any and all Warriors you haven't upgraded yet.

    Stealing techs is really just playing catch-up.
     
  15. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    Yup, if you ever want clarification about anything I write, you just have to ask. :goodjob:
     
  16. walletta

    walletta King

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    Hmmmm
     
  17. Priyon

    Priyon Chieftain

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    Is it a good strategy to build 'resource colony' type cities (for the lack of a better word)...i.e., suppose you have built a decent empire and while scouting you suddenly find an area with a lot of iron or gems or any resources. They are useless until worked upon by a city. Is it worth building an extra vulnerable city far, far away from your empire for the sole reason of shipping huge amounts of resources back to the capital?

    Especially since maintaining it will cost a lot, it could be easily invaded and possibly compromise a culture victory.
     
  18. justanick

    justanick King

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    Generally speaking you want as many cities as possible. Cities that have the additional benefit of getting you valuable resources are even more valuable. Often the space between the core of your empire and the peripheriy you decribe is conqered on the way. If the city you you describe is really far a way from your empire, than you might consider to make the resources be obtained by AI so you can buy it off. This makes sense if else you have to defend the city against that AI because the city is within the space of its "natural" empire. But if you are discussiong lone islands, than grabbing the land yourself seems to be the better choice.
     
  19. Arjav Jain

    Arjav Jain The CIVVER

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    Is it possible to pillage roads of other civs without breaking peace or any treaty like RoP?
     
  20. Arjav Jain

    Arjav Jain The CIVVER

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    That is if we're standing in their area. Can we pillage the roads or anything else which is one of their belongings.
     

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