Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[EMan]

Thanks, all. Is there any way to tell how many beakers a given tech costs?

Yes. If you load the utility program CivAssist II, it will tell you how many beakers you will need to acquire a specific scientific tech in your game. (It will also give you a lot of other useful information, too. E.g. The tiles that can still be de-forested for the 10-Shield Bonus).

 

[justanick]

A scientist adds uncorrupted beakers to a town, which are then multiplied by whatever buildings are present (lib, copernicus'). A tax collector adds uncorrrupted tax income to a town, which is then multiplied...

No. Multipliers donnot apply on the yields of taxmen or scientists.
For yields from tiles and tourist attractions it is different. First corruption is applied and on the remaining yields the sliders apply and on what remains then the multipliers apply. After all that is done the yields of taxmen and scientists are added to the yields of the city.

Scientists yield 3 beakers, taxmen 2 gold. Therefore scientists are almost always the better choice. If you need gold you can lower the science slider to zero and research only with scientists.

Thanks, all. Is there any way to tell how many beakers a given tech costs?

Research cost formula v1.29f

This is the formula for research cost for v1.29f. I have attached an image of the formula as it is easier to visualize that way than in plain text. Also it is now simplified even more for your pleasure ;). Research Cost = - Research done so far I'll also write it out for those who cannot...

forums.civfanatics.com

 

[Samson]

Is there a resource anywhere where you can find out which forested tiles are bonus grassland in the conquests?

 

[WeirdoJoker]

More stuff I'm thinking about ... what might be a good way (if any) to analyze whether obsolete units (e.g., Spearmen, Horsemen, &c.) should be upgraded or disbanded?

 

[tjs282]

A scientist adds uncorrupted beakers to a town, which are then multiplied by whatever buildings are present (lib, copernicus'). A tax collector adds uncorrrupted tax income to a town, which is then multiplied

Specialist-generated income/beakers are not multiplied by buildings! Only commerce converted through the sliders goes through the multiplier-buildings.

This is why, once a (core) town has a Lib + Uni (which together double the town's commerce --> beaker output) it's preferable to have all commerce-generating workable tiles being worked by citizens (if possible), rather than running those citizens as Specialists.

It's also why Banks are useless when running Sci%+Lux%=100% (i.e. Tax%=0%), because the Bank's "+50%Tax"-multiplier effect has nothing to work with.

And it's why it's not worth putting purely commerce-multiplier buildings in 'one-shield towns' -- that's where growing massive excess food to support Specialists is preferable.

I recommend searching out the articles "The role of the Specialist Citizen" and "Multiplier buildings a practical primer" in the War Academy.

Thanks, all. Is there any way to tell how many beakers a given tech costs?

You can see the 'base cost' by looking in the .biq file using the Editor, but this is adjusted (multiplied) for any given game based on chosen map size and difficulty level. Total cost to learn (or buy) an unknown tech is also re-adjusted (downwards) based on how many civs you know which already have it.

In-game, provided that you can generate enough beakers to learn a new tech in less than 50 turns, you can make an estimate of the (current) total cost of a tech by playing with the Science-slider in the F1 screen, while watching how that affects the numbers "science per turn" and "turns to learn tech".

 

[tjs282]

Is there a resource anywhere where you can find out which forested tiles are bonus grassland in the conquests?

Unfortunately not, in-game. You'll just have to chop it and check. If it turns out to be non-bonus, but you need the shields and you have the Worker-power available, you could always mine it (or reforest it) afterwards.

 

[Samson]

More stuff I'm thinking about ... what might be a good way (if any) to analyze whether obsolete units (e.g., Spearmen, Horsemen, &c.) should be upgraded or disbanded?

I think we talked about this a bit in this thread a few months/years ago. It is probably worth its own thread, but I think it is a fairly well balanced decision, incorporating the considerations:

• Value of the upgraded unit
  • If you have a swordsman and a pikeman, and you have just just rep. parts and rubber I am more likely to upgrade the pikeman and disband the swordsman
• Value of the disband
  • Disbands can be particularly useful when converting flip risk occupied populations into workers/settlers. If this is an opportunity I am more likely to disband than if I would waste the shields
• Value of money
  • If I am making profit while researching at 4 turns/tech I am more likely to upgrade

 

[Samson]

Unfortunately not, in-game. You'll just have to chop it and check. If it turns out to be non-bonus, but you need the shields and you have the Worker-power available, you could always mine it (or reforest it) afterwards.

I meant out of game. I did it for France in the Napoleonic one, I wondered if someone have been a bit more systematic.

 

[tjs282]

I meant out of game. I did it for France in the Napoleonic one, I wondered if someone have been a bit more systematic.

Might be something to add to the C3X request/wish-list...

 

[Samson]

Might be something to add to the C3X request/wish-list...

It would be a completely different thing if it was available for random maps that being available for the conquests.

 

[Civinator]

It would be a completely different thing if it was available for random maps that being available for the conquests.

I hope I have understood this well. C3X boosts the C3C main exe and therefore works for games on random maps (epic game) as well as it works for the conquests and the C3C scenarios, too. Unfortunately at present C3X only holds a message for a chopped forest tile, but not for an unchopped forest tile.

 

[Samson]

I hope I have understood this well. C3X boosts the C3C main exe and therefore works for games on random maps (epic game) as well as it works for the conquests and the C3C scenarios, too. Unfortunately at present C3X only holds a message for a chopped forest tile, but not for an unchopped forest tile.

What I am saying is that I am not sure it is unfortunate. It would change the balance of the game if you could tell before a forest chop if it would result in a BG, it would make grassland areas more valuable relative to other terrain.

 

[Civinator]

What I am saying is that I am not sure it is unfortunate. It would change the balance of the game if you could tell before a forest chop if it would result in a BG, it would make grassland areas more valuable relative to other terrain.

Now I understand it. In C3X all options can be selected, so everybody can decide if this option should be activated in the game and can test if this improves the game play for oneself. If not, the option can be deactivated.

 

[justanick]

More stuff I'm thinking about ... what might be a good way (if any) to analyze whether obsolete units (e.g., Spearmen, Horsemen, &c.) should be upgraded or disbanded?

In the long run you are more limited by money than by shields. Therefore disbanding tends to be the better choice. However, there are important exceptions.

Upgrading knights(70 shields) to cavalry(80 shields) is cheap(30 gold) and very effective. Utilizing the new tech ASAP can give a valuable edge on the battlefield. Use the limited window of opportunity wisely.

Upgrading spearmen to pikemen and swordsmen to MedInfs costs 30 gold each at a time when shields are still limited and the amount of military units is preferably limited as well.

There may be other exceptions, but those 2 seem to be the most important ones. The gist really is that you should not aim to upgrade a large amount of units, but only say up to 20 upgrades of 30 gold each. If you go for higher numbers(say horsemen to cavalry for 150 gold each) you risk to deplete your limited funds both by the cost of the upgrades themselves but also by paying 2 gtp for every unit not covered by free unit support. I am assuming the government type of republic here.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

I recommend searching out the articles "The role of the Specialist Citizen" and "Multiplier buildings a practical primer" in the War Academy.

I've read it before, but I'll read it again as a refresher. In my current game, all my Specs. are Scientists. No hospitals yet, so anything above 24 food and I convert to a Scientist.

I think we talked about this a bit in this thread a few months/years ago. It is probably worth its own thread, but I think it is a fairly well balanced decision, incorporating the considerations:

• Value of the upgraded unit
  • If you have a swordsman and a pikeman, and you have just just rep. parts and rubber I am more likely to upgrade the pikeman and disband the swordsman
• Value of the disband
  • Disbands can be particularly useful when converting flip risk occupied populations into workers/settlers. If this is an opportunity I am more likely to disband than if I would waste the shields
• Value of money
  • If I am making profit while researching at 4 turns/tech I am more likely to upgrade

I'm not up to 4T/tech quite yet (and working on getting there), but I just got Tanks, so I'm thinking I should just upgrade some stuff & disband the rest.

In the long run you are more limited by money than by shields. Therefore disbanding tends to be the better choice. However, there are important exceptions.

Upgrading knights(70 shields) to cavalry(80 shields) is cheap(30 gold) and very effective. Utilizing the new tech ASAP can give a valuable edge on the battlefield. Use the limited window of opportunity wisely.

Upgrading spearmen to pikemen and swordsmen to MedInfs costs 30 gold each at a time when shields are still limited and the amount of military units is preferably limited as well.

There may be other exceptions, but those 2 seem to be the most important ones. The gist really is that you should not aim to upgrade a large amount of units, but only say up to 20 upgrades of 30 gold each. If you go for higher numbers(say horsemen to cavalry for 150 gold each) you risk to deplete your limited funds both by the cost of the upgrades themselves but also by paying 2 gtp for every unit not covered by free unit support. I am assuming the government type of republic here.

Ok, that makes sense (and yes, Republic). So it sounds like upgrading the Knights to Cossacks & disband the rest of the excess obsolete stuff. That should work.

 

[Takhisis]

he gist really is that you should not aim to upgrade a large amount of units, but only say up to 20 upgrades of 30 gold each.

Uhm, this also depends on what map size and setting you have. And also whether you have railroads or not. If you don't have railroads, that extra movement point (×3 if you have roads) can be the decider in a war.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

My recent game (Russia/Monarch/Large/Continents) as a Spaceship victory involved longer research times than I'm used to in the Industrial and especially Modern ages ... I mean, it was ridiculous. I outstripped the AI in research (and pretty ridiculously so) so winning the Ship was not problematic, but I've been used to shorter research times even in the late game. Any ways (or articles on how) to speed up research late game? Plenty of Scientists, Libs & Univs. Got the Internet (& some off-continent Research Labs). Disbanding obsolete units. I'm not used to it being as tough as it was. Am I missing something from my last inquiry on this? Or is it just taking longer at Monarch? (OTOH, production times were ridiculously short, so disbanding rather than upgrading became necessary.)

 

[tjs282]

Research does take longer as difficulty level is increased, both because the human's research costs are greater than the AI's at Monarch+ (actually, divided by the cost-factor, so e.g. Monarch is 11% more expensive than Regent), and the number of 'optimal' towns is reduced (so you don't get as much uncorrupted commerce to convert to beakers).

Map-size is also a factor, so if this was your first game on a Large map(?), your tech-costs would be higher than you've been used to on a Standard map.

 

[justanick]

Research cost formula v1.29f

This is the formula for research cost for v1.29f. I have attached an image of the formula as it is easier to visualize that way than in plain text. Also it is now simplified even more for your pleasure ;). Research Cost = - Research done so far I'll also write it out for those who cannot...

forums.civfanatics.com

The map size should be the biggest change. At "large" techs cost twice as much as on "tiny". Essentially you need to cover the same percentage of the available area to get the same amount of turns per tech. This can also slow down AI by a significant degree.

Still at monarch 4 turns per tech should be doable reasonably easy even later on.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Research does take longer as difficulty level is increased, both because the human's research costs are greater than the AI's at Monarch+ (actually, divided by the cost-factor, so e.g. Monarch is 11% more expensive than Regent), and the number of 'optimal' towns is reduced (so you don't get as much uncorrupted commerce to convert to beakers).

Ok, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

Map-size is also a factor, so if this was your first game on a Large map(?), your tech-costs would be higher than you've been used to on a Standard map.

Not my first game on a Large map, but my third, so that explains a lot.