HardRocker
Student.
Looks good! U.S.S.R. is huge! Makes playing as Germany with custom diplomacy seem a little daunting...
R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions
- Thread starter Gedemon
- Start date
Thanks Gedemon,
Something is definitely wrong with some of them. I have seen all those convoys go to their destinations at one point or another. I have had some auto-movers stop when a pack of ships blocked Marseilles (or when a naval unit was in the port) and then I would clear the way and click on Marseilles as a 'multi-move' destination and they would go all the way and disembark on their own. I think I've seen them start up on their own after stopping too. I have seen an Italian convoy sit by Tripoli for many moves then suddenly decide to start moving. Not sure what that was about, but maybe the route was blocked for a while.
But some of them (they were all in late 1939 and there were three or four) just appeared by North Africa and never moved on their own. I moved them and left them sitting near Marseilles, with an open path, for several turns and they did nothing. Eventually I disbanded them for $85 each.
I like the way subs do so much damage to the convoys. It's perhaps a bit extreme but it does get the message across about what a threat subs were to convoys in the war.
The AI navies are remarkably stupid still (I know it's a Civ5 issue). I've seen most of the Royal Navy sit by while one British cruiser trades blows with one German cruiser turn after turn when obviously they should mass attack. I have seen the Italians mass attack and sink a British convoy near Malta though. And the tweaks you made to the destroyers really do work. They are intensely aggressive in hunting subs. Since the last version I played (v14 or so), the balance between capital ships seems better too.
And those Curtis Hawk convoys make quite a difference to France's airforce before Dewoitaines are developed.
Something is definitely wrong with some of them. I have seen all those convoys go to their destinations at one point or another. I have had some auto-movers stop when a pack of ships blocked Marseilles (or when a naval unit was in the port) and then I would clear the way and click on Marseilles as a 'multi-move' destination and they would go all the way and disembark on their own. I think I've seen them start up on their own after stopping too. I have seen an Italian convoy sit by Tripoli for many moves then suddenly decide to start moving. Not sure what that was about, but maybe the route was blocked for a while.
But some of them (they were all in late 1939 and there were three or four) just appeared by North Africa and never moved on their own. I moved them and left them sitting near Marseilles, with an open path, for several turns and they did nothing. Eventually I disbanded them for $85 each.
I like the way subs do so much damage to the convoys. It's perhaps a bit extreme but it does get the message across about what a threat subs were to convoys in the war.
The AI navies are remarkably stupid still (I know it's a Civ5 issue). I've seen most of the Royal Navy sit by while one British cruiser trades blows with one German cruiser turn after turn when obviously they should mass attack. I have seen the Italians mass attack and sink a British convoy near Malta though. And the tweaks you made to the destroyers really do work. They are intensely aggressive in hunting subs. Since the last version I played (v14 or so), the balance between capital ships seems better too.
And those Curtis Hawk convoys make quite a difference to France's airforce before Dewoitaines are developed.
Hello, I'm actually doing a game with the last version of the mod, and I saw you wanted some feedbacks about the convoys. So for me, convoys seem to work fine. I'm playing with France and all my convoys go to their destination and deliver the materiel/personel/gold/planes like they have to. And AI don't seem to have any issue with convoys, because my british allies have their convoys going to the right destination too, and I saw M3 Grant so it works. But I can't know if it's the same for the axis. And adding convoys was a very good idea, it's very useful.
But I saw a bug with my special units "foreign legion" : they don't capture the enemy cities when they attack one (and when the city doesn't have health), they just go in (but it's still an enemy city, like you can see in my screenshot) so I have to send then another unit to conquer the city... I think it's because this unit can't capture enemy tiles...
But I saw a bug with my special units "foreign legion" : they don't capture the enemy cities when they attack one (and when the city doesn't have health), they just go in (but it's still an enemy city, like you can see in my screenshot) so I have to send then another unit to conquer the city... I think it's because this unit can't capture enemy tiles...
Attachments
Interesting: thanks for the extra comments on french convoys. I'm wondering if the reason a few went 'offline' had something to do with my behaviour early in the game. And I agree; the convoys add something very worthwhile. Because I tried to fight the battle of France without building any new land units and few factories (a quirky plan to build and export an airforce to Africa and slow but not prevent Paris falling, which I now realize won't work)), I was very dependent on their support.
I believe the Foreign Legion are working as intended. They have never been able to capture cites.
I believe the Foreign Legion are working as intended. They have never been able to capture cites.
hi gedemon ! thanks for the very nice work on your mod !
I'm playing the current version of the 1939 map with standard settings. It seems like the AI is not able to use the embarking from harbours. The british didn't do any landings in europe so far. Still 1940 though.
I'm playing the current version of the 1939 map with standard settings. It seems like the AI is not able to use the embarking from harbours. The british didn't do any landings in europe so far. Still 1940 though.
I just had another convoy go rogue on me. France fell (and now I'm fighting that tough airforce I built up, without any units...and I have a feeling I'll never get those planes back....).
After I fought off the massive Algerian air force and captured the first city, and before I have captured Alger, a French convoy spawned near Suez, without a 'new convoy formed' message, and showing no signs of being willing to move on its own. Don't know what it means, but just FYI.
I have seen British AI embark units and cross to France (and get slaughtered there or in the water) in my game. I'm in either late 1940 or early 1941 now.
After I fought off the massive Algerian air force and captured the first city, and before I have captured Alger, a French convoy spawned near Suez, without a 'new convoy formed' message, and showing no signs of being willing to move on its own. Don't know what it means, but just FYI.
I have seen British AI embark units and cross to France (and get slaughtered there or in the water) in my game. I'm in either late 1940 or early 1941 now.
Gedemon,
I tried a new game with France and this time all the convoys work fine. I did not attack Spain this time. I have had convoys stop when another one disembarked that turn in Marseilles. One was one tile away, the other further away. I manually moved the close one the last tile into port and it automatically disembarked fine (which didn't happen with those other messed up ones). I didn't touch the other one, even though it had 4 moves left, and it started moving on its own at the end of the turn.
Interestingly, I have received no Curtis Hawks at all, in over ten convoys. Last game I think I got at least three, maybe four, by late 1940. Of course this time I need them more, ahving built fewer fighters. Murphy's Law.
I tried a new game with France and this time all the convoys work fine. I did not attack Spain this time. I have had convoys stop when another one disembarked that turn in Marseilles. One was one tile away, the other further away. I manually moved the close one the last tile into port and it automatically disembarked fine (which didn't happen with those other messed up ones). I didn't touch the other one, even though it had 4 moves left, and it started moving on its own at the end of the turn.
Interestingly, I have received no Curtis Hawks at all, in over ten convoys. Last game I think I got at least three, maybe four, by late 1940. Of course this time I need them more, ahving built fewer fighters. Murphy's Law.
Thanx everyone for feedback 
Just tried it, no problem loading here. Have you tried YnAEMP (see my sig) ? if yes, were you able to play on the giant earth ? (it's the same map)
)
If it doesn't, there are bugs to hunt here, let me know.
I'll add a check for the spawning near Suez, shouldn't happen when France has fallen, thanks.
In the end, I want special force to be able to launch sabotage missions on cities, without the ability to capture it. But the actual behavior is unintentional
Your log shows the game has crashed right when loading the map and before initializing the mod, so maybe an issue because of it's giant size (it's really bigger than vanilla huge maps).
Just tried it, no problem loading here. Have you tried YnAEMP (see my sig) ? if yes, were you able to play on the giant earth ? (it's the same map)
After fall of France, here's what should happens (spoiler to keep some part of the mod surprising
)Spoiler :
If it doesn't, there are bugs to hunt here, let me know.
I'll add a check for the spawning near Suez, shouldn't happen when France has fallen, thanks.
They will send reinforcement in France only if they have enough units to protect their homeland (3 units if I remember correctly)
Foreign Legion is a kind of experimental unit or the special forces. It has a dynamic invisible promotion (the promotion is added when the unit is in wood or jungle), but it seems the core code is treating the units having this promotion differently, even when it has been removed from it.
In the end, I want special force to be able to launch sabotage missions on cities, without the ability to capture it. But the actual behavior is unintentional
Yes, the Hawk (and other transported item) use a random check right now. I plan to had more complex checks (like "do France need more fighters ?") when spawning a convoy, but other parts have priority (the base is here, someone with a few coding skill can add it's own convoy to the maps, or modify the existing ones)
civ_liberty
Chieftain
Is there a way to download and use only the "Frontline" feature of this MOD only? I would love to add it to a WWI scenario that I built.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=18831
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=18831
After fall of France, here's what should happens (spoiler to keep some part of the mod surprising )
If it doesn't, there are bugs to hunt here, let me know.
Thanks for putting in the spoiler guard. I didn't know how, so I tried to be vagueish....I hope I can preview this to be sure it stayed spoiler.
I did in fact capture the two big cities in Algeria and things did not turn out as they should have. I can say more if..Ah...there it is
The convoy stuff really does add fun to the naval battles. It gives you a reason to go where you otherwise wouldn't go, and especially to hunt subs aggressively. I am surprised at how often the AI doesn't attack them though.
And I tried your advice about how to insert Fastmove mod code into the code and it worked. However it doesn't seem to make a big difference. If speeds up my move which is useful to some degree regarding bombers but not the enemy's much, which I suppose is limited by AI calculations.
)Spoiler :
If it doesn't, there are bugs to hunt here, let me know.
Thanks for putting in the spoiler guard. I didn't know how, so I tried to be vagueish....I hope I can preview this to be sure it stayed spoiler.
I did in fact capture the two big cities in Algeria and things did not turn out as they should have. I can say more if..Ah...there it is
Spoiler :
The convoy stuff really does add fun to the naval battles. It gives you a reason to go where you otherwise wouldn't go, and especially to hunt subs aggressively. I am surprised at how often the AI doesn't attack them though.
And I tried your advice about how to insert Fastmove mod code into the code and it worked. However it doesn't seem to make a big difference. If speeds up my move which is useful to some degree regarding bombers but not the enemy's much, which I suppose is limited by AI calculations.
HardRocker
Student.
Just recently began playing this. Turn times are a pain on my laptop, but I love the beautiful map. And with the Russians being so huge and powerful, it adds a nice counter to the Nazi powerhouse. I'll admit I paled slightly when Italy invaded Greece immediately after the Fall of France.
I've noticed a few more things about this version's new features:
When the Soviets or UK bomb Stettin over and over, instead of it going to the 33% limit and rebounding and displacing damage to pillaging nearby developments, it just goes down and down to the old minimum defence (almost zero), as though this one city doesn't know the rules have changed ;-). No ground units were around to capture, so this has gone on for many turns.
Also related to this bombing limit thing is that some cities have no developments nearby to pillage...such as Lappeenranta, which get flattened repeatedly by the Soviets in the Winter War, but there's nothing to pillage and nobody to capture it. Seems not very likely. Perhaps in cases like this, when no pillaging is possible, after the maximum damage has been reached, the bomber move on to something nearby.
A similar thing happens when all the near developments are already pillaged. Bremen is at the minimum and all the nearby industry (I think that's all that is developed) is burning. Even so, the Wellingtons keep coming over, turn after turn, when Cologne is still untaken and pounding us all with its fighters, while I (France) plink away at its defenses. If the bombers moved on, my guess is they would go to Cologne instead of wasting their efforts and crews bombing craters in Bremen.
The convoy things gets better and better. In the past, I'd only chooses the minimum naval combat upgrades for capital ships since they would end up being needed to pound the ground and no naval enemies would be left. In the Mediterranean, when someday I finish off the Italian navy (presumably with the help of the now quite abundant (seemingly implausibly so) Greek ships) I will still need to hit those convoys from Africa to Italy. Easy pickings...heheh ;-)
An idea I had is that some countries, such as France, have a menu of units that reflect the fact hat they stopped developing new tech during the real war because they were out of it. So fighter development dead ends at the De520, and tanks at the Char (I think). If they had stayed in the war, they presumably would have developed new units that never actually existed. I wonder if someday it would make sense to add some hypothetical units that can be researched, for France, maybe Greece? Or at least allow them to access the developments made by other Allies (retooling to build French Fireflys and Mosquitos?)
When the Soviets or UK bomb Stettin over and over, instead of it going to the 33% limit and rebounding and displacing damage to pillaging nearby developments, it just goes down and down to the old minimum defence (almost zero), as though this one city doesn't know the rules have changed ;-). No ground units were around to capture, so this has gone on for many turns.
Also related to this bombing limit thing is that some cities have no developments nearby to pillage...such as Lappeenranta, which get flattened repeatedly by the Soviets in the Winter War, but there's nothing to pillage and nobody to capture it. Seems not very likely. Perhaps in cases like this, when no pillaging is possible, after the maximum damage has been reached, the bomber move on to something nearby.
A similar thing happens when all the near developments are already pillaged. Bremen is at the minimum and all the nearby industry (I think that's all that is developed) is burning. Even so, the Wellingtons keep coming over, turn after turn, when Cologne is still untaken and pounding us all with its fighters, while I (France) plink away at its defenses. If the bombers moved on, my guess is they would go to Cologne instead of wasting their efforts and crews bombing craters in Bremen.
The convoy things gets better and better. In the past, I'd only chooses the minimum naval combat upgrades for capital ships since they would end up being needed to pound the ground and no naval enemies would be left. In the Mediterranean, when someday I finish off the Italian navy (presumably with the help of the now quite abundant (seemingly implausibly so) Greek ships) I will still need to hit those convoys from Africa to Italy. Easy pickings...heheh ;-)
An idea I had is that some countries, such as France, have a menu of units that reflect the fact hat they stopped developing new tech during the real war because they were out of it. So fighter development dead ends at the De520, and tanks at the Char (I think). If they had stayed in the war, they presumably would have developed new units that never actually existed. I wonder if someday it would make sense to add some hypothetical units that can be researched, for France, maybe Greece? Or at least allow them to access the developments made by other Allies (retooling to build French Fireflys and Mosquitos?)
That will require a bit of Lua coding, I don't have the time to make this component independent of the rest of the mod, but it can be done yes.
Try to erase the cache if you've not done it already. I don't remember if there was change on the 1942 map between v.17 and .23, if you still have v.17, try to replace the map from v.23 with it. And make sure to have only one version of this mod in your mods folder at any time.
I'm starting a game with France to test the reconquest, thanks for the report.After fall of France, here's what should happens (spoiler to keep some part of the mod surprising
Spoiler :
If it doesn't, there are bugs to hunt here, let me know.
Thanks for putting in the spoiler guard. I didn't know how, so I tried to be vagueish....I hope I can preview this to be sure it stayed spoiler.
I did in fact capture the two big cities in Algeria and things did not turn out as they should have. I can say more if..Ah...there it is
Spoiler :
The convoy stuff really does add fun to the naval battles. It gives you a reason to go where you otherwise wouldn't go, and especially to hunt subs aggressively. I am surprised at how often the AI doesn't attack them though.
And I tried your advice about how to insert Fastmove mod code into the code and it worked. However it doesn't seem to make a big difference. If speeds up my move which is useful to some degree regarding bombers but not the enemy's much, which I suppose is limited by AI calculations.
Maybe I'll give the subs the same hunger for convoys has I've done for destroyers about subs...
I will add an option to allow (current setting) or not alternate history.
About Stettin, that wasn't from artillery or ship bombing ? Only aircraft are limited to 33% damage to cities.
For the wasted bomber runs, reprogramming the bomber's AI is not exactly the same as reprogramming the fighter's AI. To keep it simple, I can force the AI to move to (or attack) one plot under certain circumstance, but I can't force it to NOT attack or move in one plot without completely override it.
As an example, I've got just a few checks to do at the beginning of an AI turn before forcing a fighter to go in interception or sweeping mission, and if the checks are not meet, I can just leave the fighter control to the AI.
But to prevent a bomber to attack a plot already flattened I must force it to attack something else, whatever it is, without knowing the background plans of the AI (like concentrating fire on one unit, as it is able to do sometimes, especially with it Stukas on my Char B1...)
About units development, a simple reskin of the D-520 would allow a D-530 project to match one of the Bf-109 upgrade, and there's Danrell's ARL-44 model for a late war heavy tank. Reskins of P-40, P-38 and Sherman could also be used of course, but the "what if" would have been interesting with aircraft like the Arsenal Delane 10, SNCASE SE.100, Bloch MB.162 or tanks like the Char G1 or whatever would have become the medium Char d'Accompagnement and heavy Char de Bataille as specified in 1940...
HardRocker
Student.
I would be very interested in this as well, considering that it is probably my favorite aspect of this mod/scenario.
I would do it myself, but I have absolutely no Lua understanding or experience.
Thanks Gedemon,
About Stettin: I realized after way too many hours of playing this really fascinating mod (75 turns in and Strasbourg finally seemed safe...some really interesting Battles of the Bulge happened over and over..was sad to see Frankfurt and Cologne fall) that exactly what you said is what happened. Naval units pounded it then left, and when the bombers came in, it probably still had 30% damage left from the naval bombardment, which means the 70% or so that bombers can destroy took it down to near zero. it should have been obvious, but I was pretty sleep deprived at the time.....
The idea of subs aggressively chasing convoys sounds good to me. It really is strange how sometimes the convoy will just sail right past a big fleet. When the Royal Navy (6 or more ships) bottled two German convoys up the end of the Baltic as they left Finland, so they were unable to move and trapped, they just sat there and watched while taking a leisurely Fjord cruse.. Odd, considering they had all gone to the trouble of sailing up there, presumably because of the convoys.
I was also somewhat wrong about the bombing issue. Though it still wasn't very sensible to keep after Bremen like they did, it turns out there were six developments to pillage and it took a lot of bombing to get them all in flames, so I suppose that was the logic. Nonetheless, many of those developments were closer to Cologne than Bremen. Chalk it up to confusion at Allied Command...
Lately I've been wondering why the total personnel capacity keeps going up and up, seemingly without building more capacity in the form of barracks, etc. i thought it worked like materiel..like a tank that can be filled by production/recruitment but the tank doesn't get any bigger unless you build the capacity. I have wondered if it goes up when I get troop convoys, but I can't be sure. If so, I guess they are bringing portable housing with them on those troop ships.
Those 'what if' units you mentioned:
...would be great. Tooling around in antiques when everyone else gets fancy new stuff is so not 'all the rage in Paris'.
You manage to strike a very good balance of power overall. Even Greece seems to be playing out in an interesting way. I thought it was rather overpowered at first, but overall, it has remained a smaller power and has distracted the Italians without invading and crushing them..much as it 'should' be. However, I think that owes something to the fact that the rather grand Greek navy spends its time sightseeing the Mediterranean instead of doing anything remotely aggressive. if the naval AI was better, they'd be causing a lot of trouble, very early, on the Boot.
Great stuff...and thanks again.
About Stettin: I realized after way too many hours of playing this really fascinating mod (75 turns in and Strasbourg finally seemed safe...some really interesting Battles of the Bulge happened over and over..was sad to see Frankfurt and Cologne fall) that exactly what you said is what happened. Naval units pounded it then left, and when the bombers came in, it probably still had 30% damage left from the naval bombardment, which means the 70% or so that bombers can destroy took it down to near zero. it should have been obvious, but I was pretty sleep deprived at the time.....
The idea of subs aggressively chasing convoys sounds good to me. It really is strange how sometimes the convoy will just sail right past a big fleet. When the Royal Navy (6 or more ships) bottled two German convoys up the end of the Baltic as they left Finland, so they were unable to move and trapped, they just sat there and watched while taking a leisurely Fjord cruse.. Odd, considering they had all gone to the trouble of sailing up there, presumably because of the convoys.
I was also somewhat wrong about the bombing issue. Though it still wasn't very sensible to keep after Bremen like they did, it turns out there were six developments to pillage and it took a lot of bombing to get them all in flames, so I suppose that was the logic. Nonetheless, many of those developments were closer to Cologne than Bremen. Chalk it up to confusion at Allied Command...
Lately I've been wondering why the total personnel capacity keeps going up and up, seemingly without building more capacity in the form of barracks, etc. i thought it worked like materiel..like a tank that can be filled by production/recruitment but the tank doesn't get any bigger unless you build the capacity. I have wondered if it goes up when I get troop convoys, but I can't be sure. If so, I guess they are bringing portable housing with them on those troop ships.
Those 'what if' units you mentioned:
...would be great. Tooling around in antiques when everyone else gets fancy new stuff is so not 'all the rage in Paris'.
You manage to strike a very good balance of power overall. Even Greece seems to be playing out in an interesting way. I thought it was rather overpowered at first, but overall, it has remained a smaller power and has distracted the Italians without invading and crushing them..much as it 'should' be. However, I think that owes something to the fact that the rather grand Greek navy spends its time sightseeing the Mediterranean instead of doing anything remotely aggressive. if the naval AI was better, they'd be causing a lot of trouble, very early, on the Boot.
Great stuff...and thanks again.
I had wiped out my cache, that was the first thing that I tried but I did resolve it.
I ended up completely clearing out my mods folder and reinstalling v3 and v.23, then it worked fine. Thanks for looking at it though!
Now onto bigger/better things:
I am happy to report that the naval AI is much MUCH stronger. Looks like destroyers are really kicking some ass now but I did notice some quirkiness (on the earth 1942 map)
American destroyers had a Japanese carrier completely encircled and they didn't fire a single shot at it. Battleships and (cruisers ?) don't seem to be aggressive at all, they're still their old selves. Still, I'm having a blast! Thanks Gedemon!
I ended up completely clearing out my mods folder and reinstalling v3 and v.23, then it worked fine. Thanks for looking at it though!
Now onto bigger/better things:
I am happy to report that the naval AI is much MUCH stronger. Looks like destroyers are really kicking some ass now but I did notice some quirkiness (on the earth 1942 map)
American destroyers had a Japanese carrier completely encircled and they didn't fire a single shot at it. Battleships and (cruisers ?) don't seem to be aggressive at all, they're still their old selves. Still, I'm having a blast! Thanks Gedemon!
I think there is an issue again with the mediafire link for your data files. I used the latest link you provided.
I've been reading up on this mod and was so excited...but when I tried to dl the data files, the mediafire link just reloads the page. No file downloads! I was able to grab a few other mods off of mediafire, so I know it's not me or my browser or anything like that.
Please fix so I can download this baby and play !
thx
I've been reading up on this mod and was so excited...but when I tried to dl the data files, the mediafire link just reloads the page. No file downloads! I was able to grab a few other mods off of mediafire, so I know it's not me or my browser or anything like that.
Please fix so I can download this baby and play !
thx
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