R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions
- Thread starter Gedemon
- Start date
The only point of using it is to skip the animations during the AI turn, the icons for the Strategic View are still needed. (someone want to take the task BTW ?)
green slime
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 10
Is that the only reason we can't use the Strategic view? Because we don't have icons for all the units? I suppose we want different icons for each type of armour, infantry, aircraft and naval vessels. How many icons are we discussing? A couple of hundred? I don't have the time right now, but I'll think about what I can start to contribute with in 6-8 weeks. I'll go check see what is needed for an icon.
There are around 30 icons that I need, basically you would need to take the unit flags from WW2UnitsFlagsAtlas32.dds (in the data mod) to individual files like SV_[name_of_unit_type].dds (search for "SV_" in the civ5 installation folder to see the size/format)
But I don't know if it's the only thing that makes SV unplayable, maybe those who use it it normal game can point out other problems with the mod if there are...
But I don't know if it's the only thing that makes SV unplayable, maybe those who use it it normal game can point out other problems with the mod if there are...
thecivinator58
Warlord
This may be a long post, so be warned 
1. Balance for light tanks is a little off. The L6/40, Panzer 35(t), T-26, and 7TP should ALL be buffed to 44
. My reasoning is as follows:
I.For the L6/40, the following is from "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg295)
III.For the Panzer 35(t), I'm quoting a website called "achtungpanzer.com" (Link is here: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-35t.htm)
2. Italy's starting tank strength is way off. Again quoting the trusty "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg280)
I. Italy, when the 1939 scenario starts, should have an M11/39. And that's it, for normal tanks, at least.
II. The tankettes need to get in the game ASAP. Because they WERE important, if ineffective.
3. The Polish 10TP is currently a medium tank. It should be a cruiser tank. Quoting "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg354) again:
4. As kind of a side note, the Panzer 38(t) needs to get added. My reasoning, "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg346)
I. Also, when the Panzer 38(t) gets in the game, it should be around 56.
My source is the same as the above
.
1. Balance for light tanks is a little off. The L6/40, Panzer 35(t), T-26, and 7TP should ALL be buffed to 44
. My reasoning is as follows:I.For the L6/40, the following is from "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg295)
II.For the T-26, as much as I hate Wikipedia, here I must quote it:
(Address is here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_history_of_the_T-26)
III.For the Panzer 35(t), I'm quoting a website called "achtungpanzer.com" (Link is here: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-35t.htm)
IV.For the 7TP, I again quote "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg353)
2. Italy's starting tank strength is way off. Again quoting the trusty "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg280)
In this quote, medium tanks mean M11/39s, light tanks mean L6/40s, and tankettes mean L3/33s, L3/35s, and Fiat 3000s. So what does this mean?
I. Italy, when the 1939 scenario starts, should have an M11/39. And that's it, for normal tanks, at least.
II. The tankettes need to get in the game ASAP. Because they WERE important, if ineffective.
3. The Polish 10TP is currently a medium tank. It should be a cruiser tank. Quoting "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg354) again:
And again:
4. As kind of a side note, the Panzer 38(t) needs to get added. My reasoning, "The Encyclopedia of Tanks and Armored Fighting Vehicles" (pg346)
I tend to think one quarter of the Panzer arm was fairly important.
I. Also, when the Panzer 38(t) gets in the game, it should be around 56
.My source is the same as the above
By "same generation French medium tanks", it means the Souma S35, which is currently 56
.green slime
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 10
After playing around some more, here is a list of things I'd like to see changed:
1) I don't understand why aircraft manufacture is divided into three seperate factory types, two of which are mutually exclusive. Nor why Land Factories mean you can't produce fighters. I'm not understanding the real world logic behind this decision.
2) Part of the war in the Pacific, was about building aerodromes on dinky remote islands. The current map allows you to fly anywhere there is a town. I'd have liked to see two city improvements and an engineered map improvement instead: airfield (engineer-built; max stack size for aircraft 1) aerodrome (city improvement, max stack size for aircraft = city size or 3, whichever is lower) / airport (city improvement, max stack size for aircraft 5) These improvements shouldn't get destroyed by attacking the city.
3) The naval war: the current game plays out very differently from the naval war. The reason no navy went overboard on producing battleships (despite several hulls being laid down prior to the war starting) during WWII was the shift to airpower, and the realisation that airpower and aircraft carriers were far more important. Aircraft carriers are currently useless in the game, because even level 8 aircraft cannot sink battleships or cruisers in a timely enough fashion. With only 3 aircraft per carrier, it'll take 3-4 turns to sink the damn thing at best. So the player cranks out all the battleships/cruisers he can, because they are the path to dominate the seas (pre-WW2 thinking). If you instead increase the power of aircraft vs non-destroyer ships, fleets cannot approach coastlines with impunity, and the value of an AC goes up. Additionally if destroyers are the navy's AA, then the player now has a reason to produce them.
1) I don't understand why aircraft manufacture is divided into three seperate factory types, two of which are mutually exclusive. Nor why Land Factories mean you can't produce fighters. I'm not understanding the real world logic behind this decision.
2) Part of the war in the Pacific, was about building aerodromes on dinky remote islands. The current map allows you to fly anywhere there is a town. I'd have liked to see two city improvements and an engineered map improvement instead: airfield (engineer-built; max stack size for aircraft 1) aerodrome (city improvement, max stack size for aircraft = city size or 3, whichever is lower) / airport (city improvement, max stack size for aircraft 5) These improvements shouldn't get destroyed by attacking the city.
3) The naval war: the current game plays out very differently from the naval war. The reason no navy went overboard on producing battleships (despite several hulls being laid down prior to the war starting) during WWII was the shift to airpower, and the realisation that airpower and aircraft carriers were far more important. Aircraft carriers are currently useless in the game, because even level 8 aircraft cannot sink battleships or cruisers in a timely enough fashion. With only 3 aircraft per carrier, it'll take 3-4 turns to sink the damn thing at best. So the player cranks out all the battleships/cruisers he can, because they are the path to dominate the seas (pre-WW2 thinking). If you instead increase the power of aircraft vs non-destroyer ships, fleets cannot approach coastlines with impunity, and the value of an AC goes up. Additionally if destroyers are the navy's AA, then the player now has a reason to produce them.
My computer doesn't really run normal view very well...
The three factory types makes sense but why you can't build all 3 beats me. I'm pretty sure a big city like London would have all 4 factories and a ship yard.
Maybe the improvements can be 'knocked out' for a turn, meaning that the bombers or fighters may not be able to scramble. Or maybe, if the attacking plane suffers less than 3 damage from the attack, planes based in the airfield can get damaged a bit.
I agree, naval power needs to be balanced but also, planes shouldn't be able to do much damage against destroyers and destroyers should always be able to intercept but most of the time do 1-3 damage. Aircraft carriers aren't available in Europe 1939-1945, which is a disadvantage to England.
Also, England used fighter planes to attack German submarines and it was a great success.
About the factories, ideally I would have "Messerschmidt", "Boeing", "Renault", ... , plants, with a limited number per nation, but no limit per cities. But for gameplay reasons, I thought that a limit per city was better, preventing a player to build all factory types in the most productive city and pump units from there only. And for coding reason it was easier to make the limitation based on mutual exclusion instead of numbers.
You can change that by modifying the g_Buildings_Exclusion table in RedDefinesGlobal.lua (it could also be in the scenario define file)
About the real world comparison, I can't find example of cities that were mass-producing all types of vehicle during the war, I could use some help here.
Airstrip improvement are planed, and limitation per city based on buildings is a possibility (I think I've left a comment about that somewhere in the C++ code
)
Air vs Sea will be balanced once the torpedoes and critical damage "promotions" will be in, you're going to have to rethink your use of battleships/cruisers then. Embarked aircraft is a first step in this direction, coming in next version.
You can change that by modifying the g_Buildings_Exclusion table in RedDefinesGlobal.lua (it could also be in the scenario define file)
About the real world comparison, I can't find example of cities that were mass-producing all types of vehicle during the war, I could use some help here.
Airstrip improvement are planed, and limitation per city based on buildings is a possibility (I think I've left a comment about that somewhere in the C++ code
)Air vs Sea will be balanced once the torpedoes and critical damage "promotions" will be in, you're going to have to rethink your use of battleships/cruisers then. Embarked aircraft is a first step in this direction, coming in next version.
thecivinator58
Warlord
Would be good, but I don't think anyone has made a Swordfish yet.
After a few checks, here are real world logic added to the gameplay logic:
- Mass producing tanks or aircraft require a lot of infrastructure, the mod does not try to simulate the dispersed plants for various components, so let say the factory in the game represent the final assembly plant, you have to bring the material there and output the final vehicle using the local transportation system, which would become quickly overloaded if it has to serve multiple industries.
- Regrouping multiple industries in the same location would make a tempting target for strategic bombing.
After 115 turns I have only built my army (had to quit building it after turn 80 or so because of the money issue!) and watch japan fight china.
Is this something you made on purpose?
I know in 10-20 turns the ww2 should start with germany attacking poland.
Playing as Germany btw.
Is this something you made on purpose?
I know in 10-20 turns the ww2 should start with germany attacking poland.
Playing as Germany btw.
Akrapovic it sounds like your playing Earth 1936 map, not Europe 1939. If you play the 1936 map you will have to wait for a hundred odd turns until the european theatre begins.
If you play in the 1939 map the war will start after 10 or so turns. The 1939 map is europe only, but its porbably better when playing germany anyway.
If you play in the 1939 map the war will start after 10 or so turns. The 1939 map is europe only, but its porbably better when playing germany anyway.
Please post the issue you may have in the corresponding thread, there is one per scenario.After 115 turns I have only built my army (had to quit building it after turn 80 or so because of the money issue!) and watch japan fight china.
Is this something you made on purpose?
I know in 10-20 turns the ww2 should start with germany attacking poland.
Playing as Germany btw.
Of course, if you're talking of the 1936 map, you're doing it wrong, build your economy before your army.
But anyway I'd also suggest to start with a stable map, like Stalingrad or Europe 1939.
Keep the alpha/beta version for when you'll be ready to start editing/modding.
Is there anything to be said for adding a new city for the UK in Europe 1939?
One of the main problems when playing as the UK is that it starts off with a unit limit of 7, and most of that is quickly taken up by convoys. Also in the early game there isn't much room for British expansion, unlike the axis countries, while fairly soon Britain itself is under attack when (or if) France falls. And since Britain starts off with one of the lowest production bases its very difficult to build up a decent army and air force to defend itself, while at the same time finding itself stretched across Europe. Also, as new operation and units are added in the future, this will become worse.
I can identify two practical ways to boost this limit and avoid the slowdown in production. First by killing of its navy units. I think some people do this, but I tend to let France die and reinforce Norway and Africa. And this means that, at the beginning at least, I have to keep a strong navy around the mainland to fend off operation Seelowe. And by the time naval units become useless its already the second half of the game and the allies are on the offensive.
The second way is to take cities in Libya. In the current game this is reasonably easy, but if an operation Sonnenblume is going to be introduced and the African campaign extended then this wont really be an option.
Anyway I decided to make a list of unit limits for each available country for comparison to prove a point.
France: 54 - 28 starting units = Starting Unit supply of 28
Greece: 20 - 10 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 10
UK: 41 - 34 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 7
Germany: 51 - 28 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 23
Italy: 45 - 29 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 16
USSR: 113 - 15 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 98
As you can see Britain starts of with the largest number of units (though mostly naval and spread across the map) but still has the second lowest overall limit. Obviously comparing the UK's situation to that of Germany (who's supply is quickly boosted by conquests in Poland) or the USSR (who start off with a massive supply but lose a large amount of cities quickly after fighting begins) is stupid, but similar countries like france or italy have higher limits.
I'd say Greece has a good limit. High enough for some build up during its year and a half peace, with room for expansion to the north east.
France has a large starting supply, but a large amount of that will be lost to the Germans at first. But enough to absorb that and produce more units alongside the convoys it receives.
I'd say Italy is the country best comparable to the UK. Naval based, and with room for expansion in east africa. However Italy still starts off a higher unit limit, as well as the cities gained during the fall of france.
Anyway to cut this short my suggestion is to give the UK a new city. My suggestion would be Glasgow, since there's a good bit of room in the north west of Scotland. Also Glasgow was one of the big industrial cities of the time. Another possibility would be to make Palestine or something part of Britain, though this could be a bad precedent for the removing other nation states in Africa.
If a city was added with a population of 8, then the stating unit limit would only be boosted to 15, still less than Italy. This would still put pressure on Britain, but at the same time give a little extra breathing space. It would allow britain to build a reasonable army and air force, along with researching units and any future operation, without removing the challenge that the unit limit presents.
Anyway that's my rather long winded suggestion.
One of the main problems when playing as the UK is that it starts off with a unit limit of 7, and most of that is quickly taken up by convoys. Also in the early game there isn't much room for British expansion, unlike the axis countries, while fairly soon Britain itself is under attack when (or if) France falls. And since Britain starts off with one of the lowest production bases its very difficult to build up a decent army and air force to defend itself, while at the same time finding itself stretched across Europe. Also, as new operation and units are added in the future, this will become worse.
I can identify two practical ways to boost this limit and avoid the slowdown in production. First by killing of its navy units. I think some people do this, but I tend to let France die and reinforce Norway and Africa. And this means that, at the beginning at least, I have to keep a strong navy around the mainland to fend off operation Seelowe. And by the time naval units become useless its already the second half of the game and the allies are on the offensive.
The second way is to take cities in Libya. In the current game this is reasonably easy, but if an operation Sonnenblume is going to be introduced and the African campaign extended then this wont really be an option.
Anyway I decided to make a list of unit limits for each available country for comparison to prove a point.
France: 54 - 28 starting units = Starting Unit supply of 28
Greece: 20 - 10 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 10
UK: 41 - 34 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 7
Germany: 51 - 28 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 23
Italy: 45 - 29 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 16
USSR: 113 - 15 staring units = Starting Unit supply of 98
As you can see Britain starts of with the largest number of units (though mostly naval and spread across the map) but still has the second lowest overall limit. Obviously comparing the UK's situation to that of Germany (who's supply is quickly boosted by conquests in Poland) or the USSR (who start off with a massive supply but lose a large amount of cities quickly after fighting begins) is stupid, but similar countries like france or italy have higher limits.
I'd say Greece has a good limit. High enough for some build up during its year and a half peace, with room for expansion to the north east.
France has a large starting supply, but a large amount of that will be lost to the Germans at first. But enough to absorb that and produce more units alongside the convoys it receives.
I'd say Italy is the country best comparable to the UK. Naval based, and with room for expansion in east africa. However Italy still starts off a higher unit limit, as well as the cities gained during the fall of france.
Anyway to cut this short my suggestion is to give the UK a new city. My suggestion would be Glasgow, since there's a good bit of room in the north west of Scotland. Also Glasgow was one of the big industrial cities of the time. Another possibility would be to make Palestine or something part of Britain, though this could be a bad precedent for the removing other nation states in Africa.
If a city was added with a population of 8, then the stating unit limit would only be boosted to 15, still less than Italy. This would still put pressure on Britain, but at the same time give a little extra breathing space. It would allow britain to build a reasonable army and air force, along with researching units and any future operation, without removing the challenge that the unit limit presents.
Anyway that's my rather long winded suggestion.
What countries can we expect to get most of the new "what if..." units, if you know yet?
Similar threads
