Raliuven SG1

[Raliuven]

Sorry, don't have time to examine in depth tonight, but I don't like the idea of Russia intruding on our land. I might forgive them if they placed the city on our 2nd ring.

To do the housekeeping:

ROSTER:
-Raliuven (On Deck)
-Elephantium
-TheOverseer714
-CKS (just played)
-creamcheese (Playing)

@ creamcheese - if you have any questions, etc. don't hesistate to pause during your turns and ask for help/advice.

 

[creamcheese]

Got it. Will strategize and play tonight.

 

[Elephantium]

Unfortunately, I think the Russian city is between rings

 

[creamcheese]

Unfortunately, I think the Russian city is between rings

It is, unfortunately. Oh well

I was thinking maybe changing Medina to a settler and go for broke trying to get the Iron and dyes, but I am also thinking France or Carthage might get there first. It would be a great boon, since I do not see any easy Iron. Luckily a settler and temple cost the same for us, so we can switch at any time, and I think the next player will have to decide.

EDIT: Okay, I think I need a team decision on this one. I am only one turn into playing, and Medina is size 4, with 20s left on either a temple or a settler. It will riot if I don't do something, so I was considering poprushing a settler, and sending it and one of the warriors down to claim iron as fast as possible. Poprushing can be annoying, but it will be back down to size 1 with a MP, and it offers us our best chance or getting Iron peacefully I think. We could also poprush the temple, or up the lux slider, or hire an entertainer.

 

[Raliuven]

I have a few thoughts on this -

First, I like the idea of poprushing the settler. But I don't know that I would move farther away from our core, even if the spot looks nice. I am already worried we can't protect Medina if we get into a war with Joan - and because she loves me so much, you can be sure there will be a war. It might also flip to cultural pressure unless we put the boot to Joan fairly quick.

As we now have warrior escorts, I woud be in favor of pop rushing the settler and moving it to our core under guard ASAP.

With that said, Medina is not completely corrupt at this point. I noticed that if we work both spices that we pick up a spare gold piece, but I was checking an older save so I don't know if that is still true. Not sure if this will remain as we continue to build our core, but we probably want to keep Medina's growth in check since it is not productive.

On other thought, which may be completely unethical, we poprush the settler and then gift the city to another far away Civ. All our units will appear in our captial. We'll forfeit Medina, but the up side is that the city will be ripe for barbarian picking, bankrupting the unlucky civ and France might not be able to resist and start a war that we can capitalize on.

 

[CKS]

I'd like to settle by the iron and dyes. I think France will be one of our first targets, so Medina won't stay cut off from the rest of the empire. I'm in favor of pop-rushing a settler and then pop-rushing a temple in Medina when our population grows again, so that we get a border expansion to help with cultural pressure. If we get a border expansion, it can't flip.

Having a divided empire doesn't thrill me, but having our own source of iron is a big deal. We can always give it away later if we think we can't protect it in a war with France.

 

[Elephantium]

On other thought, which may be completely unethical, we poprush the settler and then gift the city to another far away Civ. All our units will appear in our captial. We'll forfeit Medina, but the up side is that the city will be ripe for barbarian picking, bankrupting the unlucky civ and France might not be able to resist and start a war that we can capitalize on.

I'm okay with gifting away the city on one condition: We move all units out of the city before gifting it.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I'd say do the pop-rushed settler, use the warriors as an escort, and gift Medina to America.

 

[creamcheese]

Cultural pressure should not be much of an issue. I am leery of giving up a city that I do not have to, and France makes a good first target, and those spices, dyes, and iron aren't worth an extra settler in our core, IMO. The gifting to move our units is a little cheesy also...

So far we have one clearly in favor of gifting, one okay with gifting if we don't exploit the movement trick, two who want iron, and I am not sure what Raliuven prefers. I am going to go eat lunch and do some errands, and then play the turns. I will probably go with iron unless Raliuven comes out as clearly against it.

 

[TheOverseer714]

After further thinking, I say hire a scientist to fix the unhappines until you can get a settler built. Medina is in little flip danger, and I'd rather take America's Iron than waste a gift city on a mad rush to grab Iron we can't hold. In the long run, it's the better strategy. We will probably need to take France out anyway.

 

[Raliuven]

No disagreement to keeping the city, just thinking of possibilities. I am rather encouraged by the city's corruption level - it appears to be somewhere around 60% for gold? Last I checked I think we pick up 2 gold off 5 produced. So the question is, should we start pushing out workers between other builds to try to improve the land/productivity? Also, it sounds as if the next priority will be a temple? I don't worry about cultural flips much on Emperor, but the city is right next to Paris and it is cut off from home.

I will admit I am a little uncomfortable regarding our civ sprawl, but I will adapt to new things. I am generally a conservative player, thus my vote to move towards our captial rather than farther away.

 

[creamcheese]

I just got two different answers . Overseer want me to not poprush? That will take 20 turns. plus whatever it takes to move in position. If go towards our core it will take some time to get the settler in position, and I thought we could easily hold the iron position, it is only emperor.

Consensus seems to be something like, rush settler, but move towards our core, not go for iron..? I was about to finish off my turns but now I am more confused than ever. I'll just do them anyway and we'll worry about it later.

I will admit I am a little uncomfortable regarding our civ sprawl, but I will adapt to new things. I am generally a conservative player, thus my vote to move towards our captial rather than farther away.

I am also quite conservative and very much a builder, but I can really push it when it comes to nabbing a resource or lux. Not having to wade through hordes of AI spears to get iron is nice.

Edit: oh geez, I just realized PTW has horrible scientists....

 

[Raliuven]

Well Iron and dyes are nice, but how are we going to get them back home? Even a 10 turn walk back to our core will make a far more productive addition than a backwater city we can't connect to our network.

I'm not so worried about iron - New York isn't far away and catapults and horses can go a long way. If we had neither iron nor horse I would be more fanatical. I'm more worried about REX; with a good REX everything else will attend to itself.

I might play it differently with a stronger civ, but we've got major worker turns to get this monster up and running and our expansionist trait is just about used up (not that it had much of a chance with both America and Russia running interference).

 

[creamcheese]

Well Iron and dyes are nice, but how are we going to get them back home? Even a 10 turn walk back to our core will make a far more productive addition than a backwater city we can't connect to our network.

A poprushed harbor was my original idea. But a road to france might work as well. By the time we roaded it france should have decent connections and we should have settled up to their borders. It is moot now as I sent the settler north.

 

[creamcheese]

Not a very exciting turnset.

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Turn 0, 1790BC- Look around, nothing to change, hit enter.

IBT- France asks us nicely to scram, I agree to.

Turn 1, 1750BC- Mecca; settler->archer. Move new settler across river towards red dot. Move scouts around, fortify archer on wheat in Damascus (nothing useful for him to do, and roads let him guard the worker stack). Poprush settler in medina, per somewhat confused discussion. Hire scientist, slider to zero.

IBT- Some movement.

Turn 2, 1725 BC- Medina; settler-->warrior. Settler and one of the warriors from Medina set out towards the core. Move red dot settler to red dot. move archer to guard, move scouts. Slider back to 10%.

IBT- nada

Turn 3, 1700 BC- Found Baghdad--> worker. Move workers through city to irrigate towards factory. Move scouts, etc.

IBT- Oh Geez, 4 incoming American warriors... They are maybe headed for France or barbs, not directly at us.

Turn 4, 1675 BC- Find Iroquois homeland to the west. Need to locate Japan still. Writing in 1. Crap, some people already have it . No Philosophy for us.

IBT- American warriors are going around.

Turn 5, 1650 BC- Mecca; Archer--> Archer. Move scouts. Am beginning to wonder just where the hell Japan is. Writing, but no Monopoly. Max run on Literature hoping for monopoly, due in 25.

IBT- Nada

Turn 6, 1625 BC- Damascus; Temple-->Granary. Spot more Iron south of France.

IBT- Carthage and Russia get Math.

Turn 7, 1600 BC- Not much.

IBT- Witness some barbarian fights.

Turn 8, 1575 BC- Irrigation approaching wheat. Barb warrior near Medina, only one warrior guarding.

IBT- nada

Turn 9, 1550 BC- Mecca; Archer-->Settler. Carthage has 7 cities!

IBT- France is killing barbs for us.

Turn 10, 1525 BC- Damascus expands. Trade Writing and 26 gold to Japan for Horseback Riding, we will need it. All have Writing now. Literature in 20.

Notes for next player:
-We have fair number of archers now, consider a granary or GL prebuild in Mecca instead of settler.
-Settler from Medina approaching core. Watch for Barbs.
-Find out where Japan is.
-We could even gather all our archers (5 in core) and go take minsk from russia, then sue for peace, maybe math.

Judging by the fact that no one has settled there yet, we could have made it to that iron spot in the south. Oh well.

 

[creamcheese]

Oops forgot save.

 

[Raliuven]

I got it. Will take a look soon. Promised to spend the evening with the Mrs. If she falls asleep early I'll try to squeeze in my set otherwise it won't be until tomorrow evening.

**Edit** I just realized how badly my priorities are screwed up.

**Edit #2** The wife is working right now - ah the miracle of remote computer access! - so I could slip away for a few minutes.

We have a settler due to arrive and one due to build in 5 turns if we keep it as a settler, which I am inclined to do. I'm not against the GLB but I'll leave that for further discussion. This is PTW, so phil doesn't give an extra tech. If we keep the settler, then we have 2 new cities to build.

I could place the incoming settler at either the pink or red dot at RCP 8, like the settler factory. The second settler would take the blue dot and fill in the gap. If we settle the red dot, that will put us in conflict with the French (even more than we are now). The good news is that New Orleans is at RCP 11.5 and isn't placed so bad for a 3rd ring city.

The pink dot puts us between the French and Russians but it does put us closer to the grapes. I like the red/blue dot plan because it will begin to insulate our core and protect the SF.

The other option I see is to move the settler to the blue dot in 8 turns and send the new settler towards the Americans, 4 moves SW (IIRC).

One down side is that we would have settled the two dots closest to our SF so the settlers will have to walk further to find a home! Oh to have that problem!

 

[Raliuven]

As it turns out, Mrs. Raliuven fell asleep, so I was able to play my turns. In hindsight I probably should have waited.

We are now at war with Rome and America. I'm not very concerned with either though I am concerned that Rome bought America into the war, which means they might be thinking about buying other 'allies' into the war. The horse will build in Mecca in 3 turns (not 4) and will be ready when the warrior comes rolling up. We might want to think about placing a warrior on the mountain to the SW to deny them the high ground overlooking Mecca.

The basic infrastructure of the SF is in place but it looks like it will be a 6 turn factory - the corruption is just too high. We have 4 of 7 shields producing or 40% waste. Mecca is building horses and probably should continue to do so until America is a memory. It will produce a horse every 6 turns at the moment. I have Kufah set to work the hill with gold as growth won't matter here until we get some worker turns developing the land. The gold also allowed me to reduce the research time on Lit by a turn, maybe two.

The war did come with a boon; I haven't had to touch the luxury slider so far. We are behind in techs, down math, MM & CoL.

Baghdad is still producing workers but when the first mine builds it should probably be switched to something else. Najran can produce a worker or two at some point.

Log:

Spoiler :

Pre-turn shakedown

creamcheese – nice set of turns – hope you stay with us!

MM Damascus from forest to cow. Growth in 1 turn instead of 2 and will collect 2 shields from forest upon growth.

Everything else looks great.

Arabs = 4 cities
Rome = 5 cities
Iroquois = 3 cities
Russia = 6 cities
Japan = 4 cities
Carthage = 7 cities
America = 4 cities
France = 4 cities.

Average city count is 4.6.

Russia and Carthage are both up Math.
We have Lit due in 20 turns.

Total units:

Settler: 1
Workers: 1
Slaves: 4
Scouts: 2
Warriors: 6
Archers: 6

IBT – Joan tells us to get out. Aww, don’t be like that.
Hannibal tells us to get out. Oh, those were you borders? So sorry.
American warrior kills a barb by our cow.
Rome demands 22gp. He’s on the other side of the world and we have an average military. Tell him to shove off. Rome declare on us. That takes care of any happiness problems for the next turn set.

Turn 1 – 1500 BC – shields are going to be a problem at the SF. We have 2 of 5 shields corrupt. Move scout #2 north away from Rome, scout #1 continues to explore Carthage lands.

IBT – Joan gives us the boot – sends us all the way to the west. Send warrior north towards capital. Roman archer appears near Scout #2.

Turn 2 – 1475 BC – Wheat is watered, send 3 slaves to mine BG, send worker #1 & 1 slave to road towards cow. Scout #2 runs away. Send archer from Baghdad to reinforce Damascus and protect workers for SF.

IBT – barb galley appear in waters off Damascus.

Turn 3 – 1450 BC – worker builds at Baghdad – set to worker but next player can veto because the city won’t do anything else during my set. Need to get the SF up and running so send the worker towards Damascus to mine the watered grass.

Make executive decision and plan Medina settler on red dot. Najran is created. Start archer, due in 10t.

IBT – zzz

Turn 4 – 1425 BC – Mecca produces a settler, start horse. Move settler towards blue dot. Settler #1 finds GH on other side of Carthage! I can pick it up next round but might lose scout to barbs.

IBT – zzz

Turn 5 – 1400 BC – workers move to cow to road at SF. Scout #1 moves towards the GH and the coast looks clear. Grab GH and receive . . . a map that doesn’t show us anything we didn’t already know. Settler arrives at blue dot.

Carthage has added an 8th city.

IBT – zzz

Turn 6 – 1375 BC – build Kufah on blue dot. Set to horse – next player can veto. Worker set to hill with gold, it will slow growth at the city but the horse will complete in 15t and we shave 1 turn off the research time. As growth at Kufah won’t be profitable for a while, I chose the gold.

Mine complete, move 3 slaves to mine grass. Start road to cow.

IBT – warrior encounters French settler covered by a warrior. They are head towards the grapes. I entertain the though of attacking them but then the moment passes. We’re already in one war.

Turn 7 – 1350 BC – scout #1 meets cartage NM covering a settler. Japan has math now. Rome won’t talk.

IBT – America declare war on us.

Turn 8 – 1325 BC – Change Najran to warrior due next turn. American warrior is on our boarder. Road to cow is complete, start mine.

Russia had CoL. Carthage has a worker but we can’t afford him.

IBT – American warrior fortifies on a hill. Worker finishes mine on grassland – and it is a corrupted shield – we are producing 4 of 7 shields at the SF.

Turn 9 – 1300 BC – Rome will talk but they will only settle for Medina for peace. Yeah, that will be the day.

IBT – first American warrior appears on the horizon to the west.

Turn 10 – 1275 BC – the Iroquois have MM now. Most have MM, CoL and Math over us.

End of rounds – We are war with Rome and America. Rome has 6 cities and no resources connected. America is still at 4 cities with no resources connected. At best speed the first roman warrior could appear after 22 turns. Fastest speed to Medina is 28 turns. We are down on techs but we have lit due in 6 turns. Hopefully we can use it to even the score. The horse in Mecca is due in 4 turns but after growth it will actually build in 3 turns – just in time for the warrior to arrive.

Scout #2 is hiding in Iroquois area. Scout #1 was heading east to bust some fog. We have an archer to the north of the American cities. I currently have horses building. Cow should be done next turn and that frees up a lot of workers, but still need to work on SF site. Corruption is too high for a 4 turn factory. I think we are looking at a 6 turn factory using one of the hills?

Sorry, almost forgot:

ROSTER:
-Raliuven (just played)
-Elephantium (playing)
-TheOverseer714 (on deck)
-CKS
-creamcheese

 

[Elephantium]

Wow, the game is unfolding quickly!

I can play tonight; I'll just need the save.

 

[Raliuven]

Wow, the game is unfolding quickly!

I can play tonight; I'll just need the save.

Well that sounds unreasonable.

Here it is. Sorry about that.