Raliuven SG1

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Our Despotism has 45 gold @ -2gpt.
Sliders are
Tax 10%, Science 90%, Lux 0%
Lit due in 6.

6 cities:

Mecca, size 1 (growth in 1). Horseman in 4.
Medina, size 2 (growth in 2). Warrior in 2.
Damascus, size 5 (growth in 1). Granary in 3.
Baghdad, size 1 (growth in 3). Worker in 3.
Najran, size 1 (growth in 3). Archer in 9.
Kufah, size 1 (growth in 16). Horseman in 11.

I don't understand why Mecca was allowed to drop to size 1. The extra production from staying at size 2 minimum would have helped us more than getting Kufah 10 turns early.

Mecca -
Size 1: 10-turn Horsemen.
Size 2: 6-turn Horsemen.
Size 3: 5-turn Horsemen (4 w/slow growth).

Kufah - 15-turn Horsemen @ slow growth.

Something to consider next time around

Change Najran to Barracks; we don't want Regular military units.
Change Kufah to Barracks; move the worker from the gold hill to the BG. Faster growth, same production time.

Turn log

Spoiler :

IBT:

Russia demands our territory map and 12 gold. I give in -- we'll be going to war with Catherine soon, but now is not the time.

Turn 1 (1250 BC):

Move workers from Damascus cow to forest

IBT:

Medina: Warrior > Worker
Damascus: Granary > Settler

Turn 2 (1225 BC):

Kill an American Warrior near Mecca.

IBT:

Rome kills our Scout in Carthage territory.
Mecca: Horsemen
Baghdad: Workers

Turn 3 (1200 BC):

Our newly-minted Horseman attacks an American Warrior N-NE of Minsk. He nearly dies, but he wins the battle.
Sci slider to 80%: we break even on gold, and Lit is still due in 2.

IBT:

France complains about our Warrior in their lands. We apologize.

Turn 4 (1175 BC):

Move a few troops ... zzz...

IBT:

France boots us due a Warrior moving N from Medina. We move.
Japan demands 19g and our map. We refuse -- Tokugawa backs down.
Lit > Poly

Turn 5 (1150 BC):

Two Archers kill two American Warriors.

Turn 5 trade options:
France offers MM, Math, 25 gold, and her Territory map for Lit
Carthage offers MM, Math, and 20 gold for Lit
Iroquois offer MM, Math, Territory map for Lit.
Japan offers MM, Math, and 4 gold for Lit
Russia wants more than just Lit for Map Making alone.
Rome wants us to pay for peace, much less trade favorably for techs.
America won't talk.

First I trade with France.
Next I give Lit and our WM to Carthage in exchange for CoL, Territory Map, and 16 gold.
Next, I sell Lit to Japan for 35 gold + his Territory Map.
Finally, I sell Lit to Russia for 24 gold.

All told, we're now at tech parity, up 100 gold, and we have more space filled in on our map. Japan is to the SE of Medina.

We can get Currency in 30 turns at 80%, -1gpt, or we can run min research and get it in 40 (the AI will probably get it sooner than us).

I'm going to pause here for comment.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Do the max run, the numbers will get better with growth. Let there be growth!

 

[Raliuven]

If we set the slider to max and put the citizen in Kufah to the Hill+gold, currency is due in 23t @ -3gpt. This will slow the growth in Kufah from 5t to 10t.

At emperor I usually lose the edge in the AA but regain momenteum in the Middle Ages. I'm a little fuzzy as to which techs the AI prefers in the AA, so I don't know if the following make sense. At the same pace as above, Phil comes in at 9t (10t without switching Kufah) and then we can start on Republic which should get us whatever other techs we want in trade later. If we start currency, we are locked in for the duration.

 

[CKS]

I'm for researching at max. I like currency, but I don't have a strong attachment to it.

I don't know about working the gold hill. Usually I would grow now and work it later, but the cash is awfully nice and we've only got irrigated grass to work at this point. I think it's a toss-up. Let's get it roaded, though, if we are going to work it. (We need the road to get to Najran, too.) Setting up Damascus used an awful lot of worker time, but they should be able to get to other tasks soon.

 

[Elephantium]

I was leaning towards Currency because it seems like the AI generally researches that last.

Another possibility would be to set the slider to 0% and gear up for pointy-stick research.

 

[Elephantium]

So, I'm not sure how to proceed. I think we need consensus.

Option 1: Full-bore research on Currency (it's good trade bait).
Option 2: Full-bore on Philosophy (we can get it much sooner).

After thinking it over, those two seem like the best options ... team, what do you all think?

 

[Raliuven]

My feelings are not strong either way; my primary hesitation is that math has been around for a while and I am not sure if we can get there first.

To case a vote - I vote for options #2.

My reasoning is that we are not sure if we can grab currency and it is a much deeper investment. We may not (probably won't) get philosphy, but we are then set to a max run at republic which will be a good trading tech and it will switch us to a new government ASAP - one of the few advantages of being religious. At this stage, I think we have a sound chance to pull republic before the AI.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I guess Philo at max then Republic at min.

 

[Elephantium]

Sorry guys, I have to pause again.

France has Philosophy. Joan will sell it for our WM, 3gpt, and 121 gold. We have another 8 turns to go.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Sounds good to me, we can go right to researching Republic, and use those turns to finish the American war.

 

[Elephantium]

Per discussion, we set our sights on Philosophy @ 100% science.

Spoiler :

IBT:

Hiawatha wants to swap Territory maps. We decline.
Damascus: Settlers

Turn 6 (1125 BC):

Our wandering Archer kills an American Archer.
Send the Settler towards

IBT:

Archer survives vs. American Warrior and promotes

Rome and Iroquois sign MA on us
France completes Oracle

Turn 7 (1100 BC):

Move the Horseman to defend Kufah from American forces approaching.

After pausing for consultation, make the deal with France.

60% research on The Republic (to build up a few coins in the treasury)

IBT:

American warrior attacks our rWarrior, we win 2/3.

Turn 8 (1075 BC):

Move some troops. There's an American Warrior next to Kufah, but I don't want to attack and lose. Instead, our Horseman fortifies in the city -- the Warrior has to attack across a river, onto hills, with a town defensive bonus.

IBT:

Mecca: Horsemen

Turn 9 (1050 BC):

Newly-minted Horseman kills the American Warrior in the fields NW of Kufah.

Arg, I missed the opportunity to sell Philosophy last turn. Now everybody except Carthage and America has it (and Carthage has Construction -- too expensive to buy).

IBT:

Carthage demands Philosophy. I give in, not wanting a 4-AI dogpile just yet.

TUrn 10 (1025 BC):

Zzz...

IBT:

American sword kills one of our archers. American Archer dies vs. the second archer in the stack.

Turn 11 (1000 BC), Turn 80 in the game:

I move Workers and the Settler towards his destination, but I leave the Archers untouched. With America having Swords, I'm not sure if our Archer stack can take New York. It's up to the next person to decide: Move onto the Iron to pillage it, or skip the Iron and assault New York. I wouldn't strike from the Iron tile; that's across a river.

 

[CKS]

I'd sure feel more comfortable with reinforcements before trying to take New York, but my military luck is pretty poor. I'm glad its not my decision to have to make; I'd pillage and wait, but I'm not at all confident that this is the correct choice.

 

[Raliuven]

I am in the pillage and wait camp. Like CKS, the RNG tends to hate me. At emperor, figure at least 2 spears in the city, maybe 3.

ROSTER:
-Raliuven
-Elephantium (just played)
-TheOverseer714 (Playing)
-CKS (on deck)
-creamcheese

 

[creamcheese]

I would not go for it. Potential pay off in the form of iron is big, but we want to be sure we capture it the first time, so we can sue for peace and then use our new iron to carve a chunk out of the french.

 

[Elephantium]

@creamcheese: I think we want to raze, not capture. New York is just outside Ring 2 (we do want a Ring 3, right?).

 

[TheOverseer714]

Got the save, will play starting tomorrow.

 

[creamcheese]

@creamcheese: I think we want to raze, not capture. New York is just outside Ring 2 (we do want a Ring 3, right?).

If it were me, I would capture, then wait until we got a settler in the right place for our ring, and abandon it. We don't want to lose that spot.

 

[Elephantium]

I'd raze it regardless. I don't think we have the forces necessary to hold the city, not if America has a few Swords running around.

 

[Raliuven]

If it were me, I would capture, then wait until we got a settler in the right place for our ring, and abandon it. We don't want to lose that spot.

I can see what you are saying; probably because I am a builder at heart. I would probably try to do the same. Not sure that is the wise course of action here. I probably would not have ventured out with 4 archers; but that very lack motion may have put us in the position we are in; had I moved them 10 turns earlier, I might have elimitated the threat of swordsmen from America completely by preventing them from connecting the iron.

 

[creamcheese]

I'd raze it regardless. I don't think we have the forces necessary to hold the city, not if America has a few Swords running around.

That is why we take it, and then sue for peace asap. No chance for counter, and culture flip is not a big issue (yet). The only thing we can hope to gain from our war is techs, iron, and gems (maybe a little gold); this city capture may accomplish all three, without the need for war against America again.

Keep in mind I suggested building up more than 4 archers to take it. Plop a spear with our stack on the mountain and strike away. If we lose a few archers cutting the iron it might be annoying, but peace after taking new york in 10 turns or so seems achievable.