Random events on or off?

It's never a good thing, but sometimes it's the lesser of evils. Just how bad random outcomes are depends a lot on the quality of game design itself. RNG is one of the few ways IMO that civ V is actually better than IV; they even took out some of the raw luck factor in battles! That's an impressive accomplishment that the series had never seen prior...although under that model I don't see why they need RNG at all it's still a step up from "low but possible chance to have 2 barb archers kill 2 archers defending a city and capture it".
The issue is that, due to the ( highly necessary ) 1 min hit per combat in civ V ( necessary because of the attempt to reduce the RNG influence on the combat compared with Civ IV ... otherwise the game would favour too much the high tech units ( like I said in one polycast about that , it would be similar to a certain simpsons episode where the aliens conquered Earth with a board with a nail because of global disarmement " Fear my nail!!!!!" :D ) ), you can assure a :spear: if you have more units that can attack a certain enemy unit in one turn than thr hit points that the unit has. In fact, this does not turn in a complete wreck the Civ V combat system just because the 1upt rule prevents most of the times that enough units can attack a certain enemy unit :D

Randomness in combat is definitely not the best thing of the world, but you can always get something worse by getting it out :p
 
^ actually logistics archers are really a pain in civ V, even as the eras wear on. It's not out of the question to seriously rip units from several eras ahead.

Civ IV's model is only terrible because there are situations (outside of explicit player decisions to risk it) where a few low-odds outcomes can have a vastly greater impact on the game than dozens of battles typically would have (IE losing my 2nd city to barbs in IU freddy, where 2 archers beat 2 archers...in a city). If that were on deity I'd have had 0 chance, but due to immortal I won anyway. Point is, any situation in which you have a chance factor that can individually tip the scales to such an extent you have a balance issue.

One of the most ludicrous things I can think of is that competitive pokemon allows critical hits but it does not allow OHKO moves (which have terrible accuracy)...despite that they have functionally the same role -----> mathematically bad strategies win on occasion. Oddly, this behavior is seen in competitive settings in both civ IV and V as well; steps taken to specifically ban bad chance factors, and then heaping others into the game willy-nilly. What's the design philosophy there? There is none :lol:. "self-conflicting" and "buggy" are not design philosophies...well not viable ones :p.
 
One of the most ludicrous things I can think of is that competitive pokemon allows critical hits but it does not allow OHKO moves (which have terrible accuracy)...despite that they have functionally the same role -----> mathematically bad strategies win on occasion. Oddly, this behavior is seen in competitive settings in both civ IV and V as well; steps taken to specifically ban bad chance factors, and then heaping others into the game willy-nilly. What's the design philosophy there? There is none :lol:. "self-conflicting" and "buggy" are not design philosophies...well not viable ones :p.


But in Pokemon short of modding the games it is impossible to get rid of critical hits as they are random. The OHKO moves though can be stopped by just not using the 8 or so moves that have there effects which saves a ton of whining due to unfair tournament wins.
 
But in Pokemon short of modding the games it is impossible to get rid of critical hits as they are random. The OHKO moves though can be stopped by just not using the 8 or so moves that have there effects which saves a ton of whining due to unfair tournament wins.

It doesn't save any unfair tournament wins, because critical hits are ridiculous. They even go through setup moves to further randomly penalize otherwise good play.

And why wouldn't you mod a game for competition? Civ does it. Most games that aren't immediately balanced for competition that I've seen played competitively for any time will do it.
 
No matter what game, there always more bad players than good. Bad players pay the bills. If they dont feel they have a chance then they dont play.
 
He means there is no fun playing against a good player if you are sure you won't win. That's why those 'unfair' features, like critical hits and the like, are added.
 
I fail to see proof to your assertions and how they are relevant to the matter at hand.

Well, think about how many big money poker tournaments there are.

And then how many big money chess tournaments there are. Nobody will gamble over chess, since usually the lesser player will get stomped to hell.

In poker, the better players win in the long run, but variance allows bad players to think they are good, and thus a good source of cash even when they start losing.

[However, Random Events as executed in Civ IV, I've said before, are just too haphazard to be taken seriously to be compared to any of these. It goes way beyond critical hits. And Civ is supposed to be a strategy game, not a gambling one. So...]

It's ok to want flavor, but I would say this is like dumping a ton of salt and sugar for no good reason and still thinking the strategy isn't a bit affected... it's no doubt that a sudden and arbitrary interference in a game would make for worse game play.

And as I've said before, there's no reason to believe these things are balanced-- I mean they sure balanced other aspects of the game really well didn't they? :lol:
 
Archon_Wing: HU4rollz?

Variance is a . That's the reason why bad players keep playing.

As for pokemon, is it impossible to make a crit build? that would mean crits wouldn't be a viable strategy. as for games like WOW i know you can specialize in crit %.
 
Think of the Pokemon example given, if there wasnt that random chance for the underdog to get the win.

It still doesn't support your argument. Bad players wouldn't ordinarily be playing people outside of their own skill level routinely...they'd be playing other bad players, where they would in fact have a chance.

A chance not just to win, but to identify bad strategy more readily and improve (rather than having idiot strategies rewarded in a semi-pavlov type experiment).

Besides, I could stomp rookies/people who don't play competitive pokemon 10-20 times straight clean through the crits. It's when they decide a well-played and strategically engaging match in favor of the guy who was out-played by the other that they simply suck. They don't really make anyone at that level rationally happy, though some people deal with it anyway. It's actually very grating for me to watch strong battlers on youtube and see them lose on a crit or parahax x3 draw or something. That crap is just stupid...penalized after making the best choices. Derp!

Besides, the pokemon example is bad anyway. A big part of the game is predicting what the opponent will do next. Bad players can occasionally take a game off someone by getting a good stretch of decisions, even if a good player would generally predict correctly more often. The game does NOT need crits. Civ doesn't either.

He means there is no fun playing against a good player if you are sure you won't win. That's why those 'unfair' features, like critical hits and the like, are added.

And I posit that argument is terrible, because these luck factors most drastically affect close games (which is logical, they have a higher chance of bridging a skill gap as the gap shrinks), not lopsided ones.

A lot of that argument boils back to the ridiculous and baseless assumption that a player who is slightly better will always win the game unless he gets lucky. That's not how life works though.

As for pokemon, is it impossible to make a crit build? that would mean crits wouldn't be a viable strategy.

Pretty close. Most you can get it to is ~1/8 or in one case ~1/4 but a lot of matchups allow for 1 or 2 hit kills (or the ability to disable something) so a strategy that relies on crits is pretty piss poor. The poke with "super luck" (increased crit rate) has the added bonus of being too slow to use the crit-chance boosted move and is frail enough that a lot of neutral hits will kill it...so that 1/4 of often 0.

However, every poke has a small chance to crit each turn. You absolutely can't rely on it, but across a single match a couple crits are likely for one side or the other (but they're not so likely that they will even out in the VAST majority of games)...but what happens is some will occur on hits that would otherwise kill anyway while others will break through setups or an important physical/special wall and completely change the outcome of the game in an instant...all this in a game that ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT REQUIRE them (it would play fine without them).
 
Hmm, haven't had much experience with pokemon, but randomly having an attack do 2x the damage on rare occasions does seem like something that's not cool for competition.
 
Hmm, haven't had much experience with pokemon, but randomly having an attack do 2x the damage on rare occasions does seem like something that's not cool for competition.

It sucks when you're trying to get a legendary to low HP and accidentally kill him because of a critical.

As if spamming Ultra Balls wasn't annoying enough.
 
lol I remember throwing 30 ultraballs at them when they had almost no life bar and were paralyzed. Gah. :o
 
It sucks when you're trying to get a legendary to low HP and accidentally kill him because of a critical.

As if spamming Ultra Balls wasn't annoying enough.

And this is why I use my AR to give myself a Master Ball if I want to catch a Legendary and don't already have one.
 
Legendaries are lulzy anyways. If you want to beat the game you can easily do it with starter only + item abuse. SOME of the legendaries are allowed in competitive but competitive you don't catch/grind that way.
 
man pokemons sure been around. im probably not the only person to try and find mew on the first editions before the secret came out. i even saved my masterball for it after catching mewtwo with a hyperball.
 
Legendaries are lulzy anyways. If you want to beat the game you can easily do it with starter only + item abuse. SOME of the legendaries are allowed in competitive but competitive you don't catch/grind that way.

I've seen your Emerald playthrough :lol:

As if never stopping to save the game (this confused me even more than in Civ4 as in Civ4 at least there are autosaves!) wasn't enough, you just rushed by everyone and used the Master Ball on Rayquaza rather than in Latias or Latios :lol: That was insane!

Competitive gaming? MLG Pros? Those no-lifes whose only worry is being good at videogames so they can show off? :sleep:
 
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