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Random Mountains

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ebrim, Sep 13, 2016.

  1. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Agreed. I think the science yields from mountains and jungles are too high. I think historically, bonuses from mountains came fairly recently with observatories being placed on mountains and jungles being studied for medicine. To have significant bonuses early in the game is a bit silly, IMHO.
     
  2. Brianstorm

    Brianstorm Warlord

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    Not sure how mountains give you a science bonus in the first place. Jungles make some sense, but even then the greatest universities and schools of learning in the world aren't and have never been built next to jungles (or mountains for that matter)
     
  3. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Science bonuses from mountains should only kick in upon researching Astronomy at the earliest.
     
  4. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Agreed. I think faith bonuses for holy sites are fine for mountains from the start but science doesn't make much sense.
     
  5. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    In historical sim it would be the case. But in Civ gameplay is more important. Campus is quite early district (to host Library) and it needed some adjacency bonuses.
     
  6. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    No, it does not need an adjacency bonus, that's a game design choice. They could perfectly well have gone with a flat yield from the district itself and then have adjacency effects only kicking in later (which in fact I would have preferred). Of course, that would have de-emphasized the whole unstacking thing which is their baby, but my fear is that they are so enamored in this idea that they end up putting too much focus on it.
     
  7. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    These are different things. If developers designed the system and it doesn't work, it's a problem. If developers designed a system which works, but breaks someone's immersion, that's not a big problem.
     
  8. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

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    But if they designed a system which works, but breaks someone's immersion AND kills balance, it starts to become a problem.
     
  9. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    "Works" and "kills balance" are mutually exclusive here. If system kills balance, it doesn't work.

    The post was about how unrealistic is for mountains and rainforests to give bonus to Campuses.
     
  10. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    I think the main problem is that it's mostly a binary thing. Either you get the very important adjacency bonus or you don't. It could work very well if different types of start actually have different adjacency bonuses that make you actually play a different start.

    But from what I've seen so far there just isn't a good alternative to go with when you don't have those bonuses early on.
     
  11. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    The system didn't work so they reworked the map in order to make it balanced.
    I think it sucks.
    As for saying gameplay first, this gets old pretty fast. Gameplay does not require graphics nor sound. Guess what's the biggest budget for games is?
     
  12. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Conquistador

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    I was expecting different district types to have adjacency bonuses for different types of terrain. For example, the theater square having an adjacency bonus to flat land without a forest, double adjacency bonus for cattle, horses, sheep and deer.

    In other words, I was expecting no terrain to be inherently better, just more appropriate for certain district types. That way, Civs that spawn in a flat area without mountain and forests would just focus on growth (farms) and culture (theater district) rather than science in their capital.

    In any case, we might be jumping to conclusions. Flat lands with rivers are probably great for farms, which have their own adjacency bonuses too, as we know, and that could mean they are already a great location for a city. If that is the case, adjacency bonuses to mountains and jungle could just be a way of compensating. If doesn't look like that is the case, but we have to play with the systems quite a bit to know for sure.
     
  13. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    Adjacency bonuses are cool, but they aren't game-defining. Yes, there could be a difference between Holy Site with adjacency bonus of +1 (1 Mountain or 2 Woods) and bonus of +5 (2 Natural Wonder tiles and a Mountain) initially, but:
    - Great Prophet bonuses don't depend on the adjacency.
    - Shrine gives 2 Faith, Temple gives 4. Relics and people assigned give even more faith.

    So, while adjacency bonuses are important, especially early in the game, but you still could strongly focus on Religion or Science without Mountains nearby. Of course, more or less even distribution of Mountains helps this being more equal.

    I don't see what's the problem with map script being adjusted to game system. Once developers add new resources they alter the map scripts to have the resources too.

    EDIT:

    Mountains have huge disadvantage - they can't be worked and nothing could be built on them. It pretty much compensates their large adjacency bonuses.

    Natural wonders and Resources are better than regular tiles, yes, but that's what they are designed for.
     
  14. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Probably beverages? I'd assume keeping your programmers refreshed is a pretty important and expensive process.

    Not that the budget really means anything though. A more interesting question is whether there was ever a game that had great gameplay but flopped because of relatively minor aesthetic issues. I highly doubt that - but there have been tons of good-looking games that flopped because the gameplay just wasn't fun.

    Take Beyond Earth as a thematic example - amazing soundtrack, okay-ish graphics... but gameplay was boring to most people, so the player numbers tanked incredibly quickly.

    Overall... yeah, while gameplay does not take up the majority of the budget it's still the thing that makes or breaks a game at the very core level.
     
  15. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Emperor

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    this, exactly!

    And btw, can someone please explain the problem to me? It looks fine to me! And seriously: I didn't look for fitting images I just did a google image search "Civilization 6 terrain"...

     
  16. qadams

    qadams Bohemian

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    That last one is so great — a long mountain range leading to a narrow, fjord-like inlet with those beautiful cliffs. I love it!
     
  17. Alphons Rodulfo

    Alphons Rodulfo weakling

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    For me immersion is part of the gameplay, especially in Civilization.
     
  18. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    A simple fix would be for adjacent mountains/ rain forest to give +1 rather than +1 per.

    But what fun would that be?

    And as far as mountains taking up valuable space you just settle three hexes away so that you get the adjacency bonus without the mountains taking up valuable space.

    I am very much looking forward to gaming the map, no matter what the terrain is.
     
  19. George Abitbol

    George Abitbol Prince

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    I agree! I wonder if it would be possible to add some "land" cliffs (à la Age of Empire).
     
  20. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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