Rank the UUs

it is, however, stronger vs. archers, which is what most of city defenders are, which is why it is strong.

Vulture is not a bad unit. However, if AIs have metal they are going to build far more axes than archers


1) Engineering is a tech that a lot of players don't tech on high levels, as the AI will tech it and you dont' have trade capabilities

And this really is the key point for more experienced players. Landcraps basically have little to no life in a standard game...you know....like the Praetorian;)
 
Landcraps basically have little to no life in a standard game...you know....like the Praetorian

Haha. :)
 
And this really is the key point for more experienced players. Landcraps basically have little to no life in a standard game...you know....like the Praetorian;)

Are you saying the Praetorian does or doesn't have legs into the later game? :p

They have very high strength for their :hammers: cost, which could remain attractive into the mid-game.
 
I've never understood why people are so high on praets. Shock axes > praets.
 
You can draft 3 rifles for the super-duper cheap price of 1 pop each... EVERY TURN. Not only is this far, far more cheaper than a Pratt, but it is far, far more stronger than prat. Not to mention you can get protective rifles too boot!

Churchill's red-coat not only comes with all this, but also an very power inherent bonus against all gun-powder based units. This even lets it still roam in control when your enemies have infantry techs!

Unfortunately, the average player who's stumbled upon pratts isn't even aware of what the draft even does, so sadly we have to put up with all the ZOMG PRATORIANS RULE landcrap posts...

Moderator Action: This could have been stated without being trollish, please do so in the future. - ori
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
I love the Pratts, not because it's any good, but because it helps show you who is the most inexperienced on the forum when asked what's the best UU.



OMFG! I don't believe it. You're making it up!!!

And what UU is the best on Noble, Obsolete? I bet the Praetorian is among them, as it's one of these 'just research them and sweep the map' UUs.
And note that the first post was just a quick example I made, I'll fix it.

I know you are a deity player. At deity, the AI doesn't only get a lot of bonuses, but they also get more starting techs, so every early UU which isn't possible to get fast is of no real use. War chariots and immortals you can get fast. Skirmishers you can get fast. Quechuas are even available from the start. But Praetorians come too late.

However, that does not mean that everyone who is looking at the Praetorian from a noble perspective and thinks it is great is utterly and completely wrong. Praetorians and catapults will continue to rampage even after Feudalism, considering you will even have the power of sheer numbers with all the land you conquered. With praetorians and catapults, you can conquer the world on Noble, and quite easy actually. Just beeline for Engineering if you need some extra firepower. (Of course, with trebuchets, any unit would do fine, even the Landsknecht, look at Milene's challenge).
 
1.

Praetorian (the best of this group)
Cataphract
Janissary (overpowered in RIGHT situation)
Redcoat
Quenchua

2.

East Indiaman
Carrack (could really go into part 1 as it is super-overpowered in right situation)
Hwacha
Oromo Warrior
Skirmisher
Gallic warrior

3.

Impi
Muskteer
Camel Archer (very underrated but not spectacular)

4.

Ballista Elephant
Dog Soldier
Cossack
Navy Seal
Berserker
Panzer
Jaguar
Landshneckt
Samurai

I have only listed the ones I've had experience with (playing with them or against them). Thus some like war-chariots are excluded as I have no experience of playing with/against them.
 
Going for them [praets] alone is a big gamble on difficulties which challenge you.

Emperor very much challenges me but I won Earth 18 with extreme ease by using praets. Had over 200 of them by the time I reached east asia and by then even crossbowmen/maces couldn't stop them (due to sheer numbers the empire I've conquered could produce).
 
the attackers combat promos are applied to the attacker as subtractions.

- Promos *except* combat. Combat is the one that units always get added to their own strength.

- Applied to the defender

The sums were right though - I'm like you I find maths easier than words :)
 
- Promos *except* combat. Combat is the one that units always get added to their own strength.

- Applied to the defender

The sums were right though - I'm like you I find maths easier than words :)

Wow I never knew that. So a vulture has a strength of 3 when attacking an axe while the axe gets 3.75? :crazyeye: I do not like vultures anymore, LOL. It's a really strange combat system.
 
Emperor very much challenges me but I won Earth 18 with extreme ease by using praets. Had over 200 of them by the time I reached east asia and by then even crossbowmen/maces couldn't stop them (due to sheer numbers the empire I've conquered could produce).
If you play on rigged maps your going to get rigged results. Rome starts with guaranteed iron and plenty of nearby targets removing the risk factor entirely,and europe as a region so dense in resources as to make any euro nation extremely easy to win with..... the Monarch+ AIs don't even start with archery/archers on that scenario!
 
And what UU is the best on Noble, Obsolete? I bet the Praetorian is among them, as it's one of these 'just research them and sweep the map' UUs.
And note that the first post was just a quick example I made, I'll fix it.

I know you are a deity player. At deity, the AI doesn't only get a lot of bonuses, but they also get more starting techs, so every early UU which isn't possible to get fast is of no real use. War chariots and immortals you can get fast. Skirmishers you can get fast. Quechuas are even available from the start. But Praetorians come too late.

However, that does not mean that everyone who is looking at the Praetorian from a noble perspective and thinks it is great is utterly and completely wrong. Praetorians and catapults will continue to rampage even after Feudalism, considering you will even have the power of sheer numbers with all the land you conquered. With praetorians and catapults, you can conquer the world on Noble, and quite easy actually. Just beeline for Engineering if you need some extra firepower. (Of course, with trebuchets, any unit would do fine, even the Landsknecht, look at Milene's challenge).

I dunno. On Noble you can conquer the world fairly easily with horse archers too. You can also conquer a huge swath of land with WC/Immortal, and much earlier in the game too. It also doesn't require a heavy investment into iron working to simply see if you have the required resource. Capturing 1-2 capitals in Noble/Prince from the get go pretty much seals the game anyways.

If we really view the game from a noble perspective, it's actually the 2 movers that actually pwn everything. If the AIs are weak, why waste time on those slow moving Praetorian? :p

Or what about Skirms? On Noble/Prince, you can guarantee nearby capitals, unless you are isolated and this is completely resource independent which means it's always doable along as someone is there to be conquered.

Excellent:
Fast Worker(Almost always useful)
Skirmisher (Perfect early game defense)
Quecha (Possible to cheese the AI, and you get it from the start)
War Chariot (Base Str is cool, available with just one tech)
Conquistador (Cur rushes are good enough, but this smashes pikes...)

Great:
Keshik (Horse archers are nice enough rush units. Now what about one that doesn't get slowed by terrain?)
Immortal (Defensive bonuses are useful)
Chokonu (Collaterial)
Overatorian (Well, it does give a lot of extra str per hammer.)
Janissary (A musket that doesn't suck)
East Indiaman-- Stupidly good on maps where ships matter. It carries as much as a transport!

Good:
Samurai (Decent, but Iron only can be annoying)
Carrack (Leg up on overseas settlement)
Oromo Warrior (Draft fodder)
Dog Soldier (Guaranteed anti-barb, on a convenient tech path)
Jaguar (Resourceless)
Vulture(well, it's better vs archers)
Redcoat (Better against other rifles?)
Catapharact (Buff knight!)

Ok:
Camel Archer
Numidian Cavalry
Musketeer (stack cover)
Impi
Holkan (Resourceless)
Phalanx (You're no longer afraid of chariots)
Anything else I forgot

Poor:
Bowman (Can be useful, but fairly lame)
Navy Seal (too late)
Batista Elephant (Wow, that's really specific derp)
Landpoop (Slightly better stack cover on a bad tech path.)


Trash:
Panzer (Almost always useless)
 
Yeah the way unit v unit modifiers are applied is non-intuitive. It's explained pretty well in the war academy here - "Combat Explained"... http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/combat_explained.php

Vulture vs. Axe in the open field is as AutomatedTeller said:

Oh right. Initially I thought that it was the strength times the result of 1 minus the opponents bonus (6*0.5 vs 5*0.75 thus 3 vs 3.75). It's really a mistake by firaxis to do it this way as it adds unnecessary headaches to what should really be a simple system (apply all bonuses of the attacker then to the defender and let the best man win).

Also what does this mean when it comes to mace vs landskeckt? 8 vs 9 (6+6*(1-0.5)) - so a landsneckt is stronger (it would be 6 vs 5.33 if the landsneckt attacked)! Wow this basically means that apart from battles vs archery units, a landneckt is better than a maceman (although then again battles vs archery units are extremely important). This makes me think that a landskeckt while still pretty crap due to ineffectiveness vs longbows, is now worthy of an upgrade to a "meh" unit as opposed to a "crap" unit.
 
Thanks for the combat explanations, everyone. Still not entirely sure I grasp the nuances, but I'm getting there.

I do think that Praetorians are quite good UUs, maybe amongst the best. While they certainly aren't as good as some posts here make them out to be, since (as already noted) they simply aren't cost-effective against Axes, their raw strength bonus makes them well-equipped to deal with, well, everything else. They're especially nice for crushing HAs, while still requiring less hammers.

Although, I suppose that against human players, if they see you're Rome they probably won't build much aside from Axes. Maybe psychological warfare could win out? Do a chariot rush? Lol
 
Oh right. Initially I thought that it was the strength times the result of 1 minus the opponents bonus (6*0.5 vs 5*0.75 thus 3 vs 3.75). It's really a mistake by firaxis to do it this way as it adds unnecessary headaches to what should really be a simple system (apply all bonuses of the attacker then to the defender and let the best man win).

Also what does this mean when it comes to mace vs landskeckt? 8 vs 9 (6+6*(1-0.5)) - so a landsneckt is stronger (it would be 6 vs 5.33 if the landsneckt attacked)! Wow this basically means that apart from battles vs archery units, a landneckt is better than a maceman (although then again battles vs archery units are extremely important). This makes me think that a landskeckt while still pretty crap due to ineffectiveness vs longbows, is now worthy of an upgrade to a "meh" unit as opposed to a "crap" unit.

It would be kind of interesting to read about why they designed the system the way they did. I assume they found that doing it the other way caused units to be overpowered.
 
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