Rat 09 - going for conquest

Capturing/razing a capital does not destroy a spaceship in progress. All the parts and Apollo program are "projects", not wonders, so they're not confined to a single city, can't be rushed with engineers, and can't be destroyed. You will need to eliminate a civ to destroy their space ship in progress.

Good news, though, is that some of the pieces are quite expensive, especially after the 1.09 patch. If/when the space elevator is built, razing the city with it will slow them down a lot, too. AND the AI tends to not build (m)any parts when involved in an active war.

Not saying a win is by any means guaranteed, but the potential is still definitely there. Prioritizing flight and getting some support fighters to defend your city, though, would probably be a very good idea.

Arathorn
 
Thanks Arathorn for the info. At least now we don't need to guess, take out Mansa Musa at all costs. Of course, bombers will help as they are the new artillery being able to wound nicely for tanks to do the rest of the job.
 
Bombers work fine...but they won't be very effective against Mansa anymore I'm afraid... he's too far ahead in tech. He will have many fighters to fight off our Bombers...possibly even Modern Fighters. And I expect him to have bomb shelters as well. I don't wanna sound too negative, but we're gonna need a massive army to beat down Mansa.
 
yeah, he's very likely to have a lot of fighters & SAM infantry by now.

Looks like we may have to go the old-fashioned route and bring artilleries. Like Arathorn said, we may need to bring fighters of our own.

I'll play tonight.
 
Turn 0 - Switched a few cities productions to military. Left some as is, since those cities won't be making a military unit anytime soon anyway.

I did notice a rather huge stack of Mansa Musa's rading force in the sea between our two continents.. Hope he's not planning to raid our main continent with that.. we're very ill prepared for something like that. 4 Tanks, 3 Gunship, and 1 SAM infantry. Pisae's got Pikemen and Archer holding down the fort ^^;

IBT - Looks like he's headed towards Saladin's last city... You know, our problems won't just be with taking over cities on the new continent. We gotta do something about the defense of (at least) our main continent, too. We may have to consider doing a mass draft somewhere down the line.

Turn 1 - I changed the tech being researched to Rocketry (then plastics). I'd like to get a few gunships before we start the war. Loading troops.. making troops, yak yak.

Turn 2 - Arabian Civilization destroyed by the Malinese. :( There is one piece of good news, however. Malinese adopted Free Religion.. so he should lose the religion +/- with the German and the English. Albeit, it's Frederick and Victoria we're talking about.. so it wasn't big to begin with, but every bit helps I suppose.

I'm scouting some of Mansa Musa's cities down the coast. Some are lightly defended (well, heavy comopared to ours on the main continent, but light by AI standards), and some heavily defended. Good news is that I don't see any Modern Armor or stealth units, bad news is that he does have mech infantry.

Turn 3 - Mansa wants to trade resources.. nope, I'm not doing anything to help him right now :P

Frederick Completes Apollo Program


Roman Revolts takes place in Newcastle

Turn 4 - West Point finished in Ravenna, factory will be done in 3.

Okay, problem. It looks like we won't be able to settle at the 3 spots you mentioned. I didn't take a good look earlier, but now that I'm in the game with my transport one turn away from it, I noticed that the 3 spots you listed are all 2 paces within one city or another. We can't settle there.. It looks like we're going to have to basically take a quick strike at one of the less defended cities... Problem is, from what I've seen, every other city of Mansa Musa's pretty well defended, so we basically need to do a sneak attack and take it in ONE turn if possible, then pillage the surrounding roads immediatedly. if not then we'll just find a less railroaded city, pillage the roads leading up to it, then take it. Trying to hold a city with no city defense when the opponents rails connect right up to it is no fun, if not damn near impossible considering the situation. In either case, I'm making a few extra marines. They're great defenders against tanks even if we don't utilize the amphibilous assault.

I'm also building a few battleships(I think we're good on destroyers, just need to upgrade a few frigs) in the cities with drydocks.. it would really suck if we lose all our transports as soon as war is declared. Would be nice to have a decent fleet to run up and down that coast to help with bombards also. Not to mention to intercept the boatloads of raiding parties.

Turn 5 - Rocketry complete. I'm going to turn off science for a turn or two to do some upgrades for our landing party.

Turn 6~9 - did some upgrades, resumed science research, loading troops. I have a transport full of gunships and a transport with more infantries heading over. There's a transport up north waiting to load marines. Tons of planes, etc, waiting to rebase as soon as we take a city there. We need to do this quick.. if those 3 cities surrounding the landing spot expands their borders, our troops that have landed so far will be pushed off :(

Turn 10 - Marines loaded and shipped off, will arrive near target city in 3 turns.

After some scouting, this looks to be the best landing spot -

Rat09_Operation_Wadan.jpg


My suggestions, veto as you see fit -

It's lightly defended, and there's no roads leading directly into it (as of now). There's a road leading up to the hill 2 squares away, however, which means Tanks and Mech Infantry (and gunships of course) can still attack it from Medina the turn after we capture it. There's 4 Mech infantry, 3 tanks, 3 gunships, 2 artillery, SAM Infantry, Fighter, and a Transport in Medina. I expect those tanks and gunships to strike right away so we need to make sure that we are well defended once we take that city. Also, Basra and Damascus are both very well defended (about the same as Medina), so be prepared for a big fight. Good news is that those two cities shouldn't be able to reach us in 1 turn as their road network is still lacking on that end, so we will be able to bombard them. One thing to consider is to sacrifice a Gunship or two to do some road pillaging. If we can pillage any all roads within 2 squares of that city, we should be in pretty good shape. In fact, rat you may wish to pillage that road east & south of our landing spot before you hit end turn.

Our 4 Marines should be enough to take this city, with a tank or two aiding it it's pretty much a sure thing. The 4 marines on transports 12/2, 8/2, 8/2, 8/2, you can give them upgrades as you see fit, but I'd definately suggest the 12/2 gets Combat 1&2 + Ambush.

As for getting the city defended, we may want to do some transport shuffle right before we launch the attack. All the Tanks and Gunships (and the settlers I brought over...)can stay on the hill two pace south of it. All the infantries, Arties, etc. would have to be on a transport, and ready to be dropped into the city as soon as we take it. We can also airlift one unit from somewhere into the city. All fighters/bombers should be rebased as soon as we take that city also so we can use them to bombard incoming troops the turn after.

We still have quite a bit of troops waiting to be loaded on our two continents (Caesarea, Antium). We also have 2 new Battleships near the northern port, and various frigates in the south. They should mostly be brought over (unless you want to set up some sentries somewhere.. but I think you can do that with the remaining frigates. It's not like a single destroyer's going to be able to kill any raiding parties) before we launch the assault.

I suggest we launch the attack within the next 10 turns. We simply don't have much time left.. even if no one finishes the spaceship, the game does end in 95 turns :(

One other thing, before we all forget. Remember I mentioned a big raiding party going for the last Arabian city west of us? Well, that group of should still be in that city, and possibly the transports also. It would probably be wise to send a frigate over there to check things out, so we don't neglect defence on our back side.

Good luck rat, we'll need it.
 
swift action in what we need now...so i can't really ponder that long...it will be nailbiting for sure

All the infantries, Arties, etc. would have to be on a transport, and ready to be dropped into the city as soon as we take it.
well, that's not going to happen since we will raze the city as per game rules...I will found the city on the hill where we landed, it will give better defense. Surely we might want walls there. And pretty good defense. From there we might want to go on a razing spree. We don't have much time left anyway.
 
Walls give no added defense after Gunpowder according the civilopedia... do they?
ok ok :blush:
 
Pre-Turn 95 turns left
move the destroyers to neutral land so we can attack nicely next turn, next turn???
yes, that's right. Not going to waste more time, it's now or never

1. 1946AD
Mansa Musa has completed 6 parts already and Victoria also starts :eek:
D-day has come
rat091946a.jpg


attack Wadan from the transport, suicide an artillery
tank loses against gunship, but does some collateral
tank redlines but takes out gunship
tank loses against gunship
tank takes out tank and final battle
rat091946b.jpg

we get a mere 45gold for the effort

now it's time to found the new place, called Last Hope
send in some reinforcements
rat091946c.jpg

bombard a convoy in the west

as expected our 2 other friends won't join in, stupid, they also just let Mansa win the space race

IT our pillager knight is killed by a mech inf, but that's it

2. 1947AD
recon trip to Damaskus, very heavily defended, I have seriously no clue how we are going to get to our target in too short a time
:(
gunship takes out the wounded mech inf

spot that Najran is actually not that heavily defended, might have a chance here to wreak some havoc
next turn, ouch get a CTD while scrolling around too much

IT the counter comes and a tank takes one of our gunships

3. 1948AD
time to fight back, there are 4 tanks, 1 sam and 2 gunships around
a blessing to our mixed stacks
infantry takes out gunship, a marine does the same, gunship takes out wounded tank
the odds aren't good enough to take out the rest, wait for the IT and then want to break out
rat091948a.jpg


take a break for now, this is quite exhausting since I really miss the battlefield clarity, it all is too cluttered
 
after a good rest last night, I think this game needs to be approached differently, that is
'you have no chance, so use it'
a pinch of salt will help to go through this and who knows what will be the result
one thing I learned anyway. In MA gunships will be eliminated well by marines/infantry+ gunships good versus tanks and tanks good versus the rest

I look at the situation again:
we face 4 tanks, promote a marine to ambush and odds in our favor 28.8 versus 26, attack and kill one tank
promote a machine gunner to Sam, I rather slow down research to get us better units

IT we lose 1 tank and 1 gunship, they lose 1 tank

4. 1949AD
more messages about SS parts come in, it looks bleak
rat091949a.jpg

take out the remaining 2 tanks with ease, we need to surge forward at all costs
we can only lose anyway
somehow we can't airlift our units over to Last hope, it must have something to do with those sams around
next turn going to clear them

5. 1950AD
surge forward taking out 2 sams with tanks and we are at the gates of Najran
rat091950a.jpg


IT an artillery suicides on our small stack
a gunship kills an infrantry escort
computers are in, robotics next in 7

6. 1951AD
battle of Najran, we face 3 artillery, 1 gunship and 1 tank
our forces mainly injured
get a gunship from Last Hope and take out their gunship
next gunship barly survives but takes out tank, we need more gunships
another healthy gunship takes out artillery, then sacrifice a wounded tank to hit artillery
rat091951a.jpg


shipping units over to the new land is pretty tedious, only one airlift allowed for the target city as well, while transports have being castrated in capacity and speed
I really wonder what was the rationale here, maybe since the AI is completely incapable, thus must neuter the human as well
we do have many units, but they all wait to be transported or being shipped as well

7. 1952AD
recon the next 2 potential targets,
Damascus
rat091952a.jpg


Medina
rat091952b.jpg


well not really a small feat, but we can do it, right? can't we?


there is a sweet filled target right in front of us and our transport convoy happens to arrive
rat091952c.jpg


bye bye those precious units, nice

since WW already hit, increase lux to 10%, we don't really need research that badly

8.1953AD
a rather quiet turn, more of our units land and we move into position at Damascus

9. 1954AD
move stack into position at Damascus

IT wow, one of our stacks gets virtually obliterated by Mansa, powerful counterattack :cry:

10. 1955
recon the area around Damascus
he has a mere
6 tanks + 1 arty stack
5 gunship stack
1 gunship
in Damascus itself there are 2 marines, 4 Sam, 2 gunships and 2 arty

easy feat as I said, isn't it? :lol:

our stack is equally fearsome with 5 tanks, 2 gunships 1 sam and 1 inf..wait did I forget something?
not really :mischief:

well, decide to chicken out and retreat to the hill next to Last Hope
we need to clear those stacks before we can think of attacks, we do have quite a few units there but breakout seems pretty tough
especially once the stack is next to a city, as Greebley said, a hornets nest
thus, maybe attacking with gunships and tanks alone and coverage afterwards give us better chances since we can attack from further away
(we could keep our units 2 tiles away, then tanks and gunships attack and get covered by inf/sams before the IT)

also, note that there are units around caesarea, that is our pick up point
I airlifted units from our northern continent there
rat091955a.jpg
 
save

and the Roster:

ThERat
Dimy - up, go Dimy, go :goodjob:
Greebley - on deck
Xarathas

Thrar - on extended skip
 
I think Airlift can send multiple units to a city if you have multiple airports - at least I thought I did that in the Handy22 game.
Unless I screwed up something there, it was not possible, multiple airports wouldn't help here at least for me...need to check with some people who know about it
 
Well I just had a look at the savegame... I will do my turns tomorrow, gonna be an interesting turnset. It's looking pretty rough down there at Last Hope. We're gonna need more transports, so I will build a couple of those. Well...we need more of everything, Mansa has a big empire there and will continue throwing units at us. So we better make sure to do the same :)
 
Bring lots of Arty too :) Gonna need a ton of those for the offensive.

I think one thing we want to consider, assuming we can't lift multiple cities into one city (I can't remember...), is to build another city near where Najran was once things settle down a tad. That could really help out our airlifting. We do have 1 more settler left in Last Hope right? :)
 
is to build another city near where Najran was once things settle down a tad. That could really help out our airlifting. We do have 1 more settler left in Last Hope right?
yes, that's right, there is another settler inside Last Hope. If we want to be able to multilft, we need airports. By the way the city is on a city wall since they actually only do not work versus gunpowder units. I thought armoured units aren't considered gunpowder but I might be worng.
Maybe we change the build to airport.
 
Turn 0 1955 AD:
Revolt to State Property. Current situation: +12 G/turn @70% science and 10% culture.

Turn 1 1956 AD:
State Property adopted, new situation: +56 Gold/turn @70% science and 10% culture.
No action this turn, just moving units around, loaded up two more transports and rebased a new bomber to Last Hope.

IBT:
Victoria declared war on us! :cry:

Turn 2 1957 AD:
image042.jpg


A Mali Carrier with 3 fighters arrive at the coast of Arpinum, we sink it with our Combat III Battleship. I advance a stack of tanks, Infantry, Gunships an Artillery and SAM Infantry in direction of Damascus.

IBT:
Our stack is bombed 3 times!

Turn 3 1958 AD:
We’re bombing Damascas…only 1 bomber out of 3 made it through and did some damage. A Mali Mech Inf is on the Hill outside Last Hope, I attacked him with a gunship but lost.

image043.jpg


The Mech Inf is at half strength now though, I kill it with one of our tanks. A Great Prophet was born in Rome, as there’s not much to do with it now I let him join the city.

IBT:
Our stack is attacked by Mansa, we loose about 5 to 6 units! An English Invasion force lands outside Elephantine!

Turn 4 1959 AD:
I retreat the stack that was near Damascas…they’re been bombed and wounded…and there’s too many units inside Damascas, it’ll be suicide.

image044.jpg


Our Destroyer is scouting outside Medina, Mansa has Modern Armors now…. :cry:

image045.jpg


The situation outside Elephantine looks scary… I upgraded the Longbowman to Mech Inf and we have a Machine Gunner. I’ve been sending some tanks and gunships towards Elephantine but couldn’t reach the city yet. Victoria also has 2 Battleships a Destroyer and a Carrier with 2 fighters around our Coast. I turned science down to 10% so we can upgrade again next turn.

IBT:
Our withdrawing stack is attacked again, we loose two tanks.

Turn 5 1960 AD:
We attack the English Battleships with one of our own…odds are even, but we barely scratch it. We kill an English Gunship with a Combat II tank. The English have 1 Gunship, 1 War Elephant and 1 Artillery remaining on our Island, in the waters around the Island they have 2 Battleships, a Destroyer and a Carrier with 2 fighters.
 
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