Rat 09 - going for conquest

[Dimy]

Hmm...it's 1360AD. I must've missed a turn somewhere...dunno where. Strange. Sorry about that.
Can someone reset the player name back to Rat09? I don't know how, and we're called Dimy at the moment.

Yeah I also had a feeling there was something wrong with the turns... as I was writing my log down during gameplay I was sure I had played 10 turns already, but it was only 1240 AD at the time so my 9th turn according the date.

As for the name change... I don't know what happened there, I loaded the save game and noticed the name of the game was changed. I have no idea how to turn it back either. It was the first time I loaded a save game with 1.09, maybe some bug with old save games?

About the Harbors, I build them for the increased trade route income, maybe the effect initially is not so much, but it will definitely be worth it in the long run.. and since we were running a lot in the red, I figured we could use every gold we can get ;-). But well...that's a difference in playing style.
I don't like the governors so much as they tend to use specialists before the city has grown to max supported size.

The Galley in the south was sitting there, because before I declared war in my 2nd last turn, we no longer had Open Borders with Egypt and neither with Russia...so it was trapped there.

Good set of turns, I agree on taking Memphis before declaring peace....and then take out some Russian cities next.

 

[Dimy]

Ready the comment about not deleting files. As far as I know Image Shack never deletes files. Civfanatics *will* delete them at some point.

Oh I solved the problem, I registered my own domain with webhosting. I have 2,5 GB of space now. Maybe I'll set up a website as well if I have the time
There's a blog now, but it's rather poor: http://www.dgerards.net/blog/

 

[Xarathas]

0) Looked around a bit and checked a few cities for tile management. Only thing I changed was to sacrifice growth in Aretium to finish the granary faster (went from 19 to 4 turns). It'll cut down our growing time there significantly.

Since it looks like we'll be peacing after Memphis, I took the Galley sentried between the 2 continents to go chase down that half dead Egyptian Galley up north.

1)

a - Our lone Praetorian way in the south fended off a horse archer, but lost to the Spearman that followed up.

b - Cumae: Praetorian -> Confucian Missionary. We don't need anymore military units at this point but could seriously use some cash... going to manually spread our religion to those cities since Cumae has nothing better to build at the moment.

c - Moved galley out of Alexandria in hopes of tempting that nearby Egyptian galley to attack us. It's either that or risk him intercepting out ferry. Odds are even (Combat 1 vs 10% coast defense).

d - Diverted 1 Praetorian in the back to pillage the improvements that will no doubt fall to Peter as soon as Memphis is taken. Cash is good.. as our econ's horrible at the moment.

2)

a - Egyptian galley managed to sink our galley without taking scratch.. go figure. However, that galley up north did manage to pick off that half dead egyptian galley. Moving him back down south now.

b - Antium: Settler -> Caravel

c - Cumae: Missionary -> Missionary

d - Commencing attack on Memphis. I prefer to give catapults barrage upgrades as opposed to city attack. I don't see them winning against Longbowmen anyway CR or no CR, so might as well do a bit more splash damage if we to intend to use them. Second upgrade would be Barrage 2 or Accuaracy depending on situation, though.

e - Confucianism spreads to Satiricium.

3)

a - Ravenna: Temple -> Worker. We really could use a bit more workers.

b - Egyptian Swordsmen with Combat 1 & 2 heading north.. to which city it's unclear. Vs the combat 1 / shock upgraded Praet in Setia I wouldn't mind, but if he diverts to Circei and attacks the CR3 Swords sitting at home.. the odds are pretty close... so I divert 1 swordsmen (gave him combat 1 & shock) from our attacking stack to intercept him.

c - Bombardment continues in Memphis

d - The Praetorian we last made in Cumae arrived in Arretium. I'm going to leave him there with a combat 1 upgrade. Just in case someone decides to be sneaky and drop off a load of units near there. Fat chance of that happening in the old civs, but I've seen that happen a few times on civ4. AIs are definately sneakier.

e - pillaged rice patty on the egyptian/russian border. Not much gold, but every bit helps at the moment.

4)

a - Cumae: Missionary -> Missionary

b - Neapolis: Temple -> Market

c - Arretium: Lighthouse -> Market

d - Setia: Lighthouse -> Courthouse

e - I moved our attacking stack 1 more step south.. forgot about the river.

f - Swordsmen ends up 1 square SE of Setia. Still very much in position to attack Circei, so I decided to pop the Praet out of Setia to kill it.

5)

a - Antium: Caravel -> Caravel

b - Pisae: Temple -> Market (instead of the Library in queue, happiness problems in this city still)

c - Wow, the AIs are smarter than I thoguht. The previously un-upgraded catapult inside Memphis now heads towards Setia, with combat 1 & shock upgrade. I guess the AIs don't upgrade until they need it, too

d - Memphis razed. Casualties: 2 Catapults, 1 Praetorian. Also lost 1 Combat/Shock Praetorian attacking the swords north of Memphis (bleh). Got some money to alleviate our failing economy, and also a worker to boot.

e - I decided to hold off on peace until we can get our settler settled near Ex-Memphis. Would suck if Egyptians ran a settler there after we peace.

6)

a - Contact with Saladin! It appears that he's the founder of Judaism.

b - Remaining swordsmen picked off.

c - Spiral Minaret built in a faraway land

7)

a - Victoria cancels open borders with us.

b - Rome: Temple -> Academy.

c - Cumae: Missionary -> Longbowmen. I think it's time to upgrade/retool our defense on our main continent... 80% of our cities are defended by a lone archer. It doesn't look like we'll be able to afford upgrading all the archers anytime soon, so I suggest we just replace them manually. Quite a few of our cities are out of meaningful buildings to build at this point.

d - Alexandria: Settler -> Temple

e - Ravenna: Worker -> Worker

e - Raiding party lands on our horsies near Setia. I hope it's got good scenery, because they'll be taking that image to their graves.

f - Raiding party annihilated.

8)

a - Antium: Caravel -> Colosseum

b - Circei: Granary -> Courthouse

c - Ardea founded on Alexandria's old site. Need to build a few cultural buildings in there urgently, however.

d - Peace established with hatty with Drama in exchange. I had the option of taking Drama or Horseback riding (what she offered), but we could really, really use theaters at the moment so I took that instead. Plus, it's a slightly more expensive tech.

e - I totally forgot to check civics earlier.. revolutioned to Caste System and Vassalage. Since we're an organized civ, Vassalage shouldn't make much of a difference on our upkeep at this point. Running caste system (at least for a few turns) to help establish borders in the newly settled city. Whoever's next may want to switch off of this depending on the border situation in Ardea.

9)

a - Running artist in Ardea. Not much goes on during this turn. Our upkeep is atrocious.

10)

a - Cumae: Longbowmen -> Theater

b - Chrstianity spreads to Ardea.. well that kinda sucks as I wanted to spread confucianism into there ASAP, but oh well. Shouldn't be that unlucky, right?

c - I decide to run an artist in Circei and Setia also. 3 turns of it will get us the first cultural expansion.

Not much else goes on in this turn either.

Summary:

Okay, now that we have peace, our #1 priority is to do something about that upkeep of ours. I checked with the various leaders, and it appears that Peter is the only one that would be willing to establish open borders with us. I suggest we do that, and raid his lands with missionaries.

Hatty has some extra gold per turn, I think we should sell her a silk (as we have 5!) for 3 gold a turn. We need every bit of gold we can get at this point.

I didn't quite finish this last turn... as I would like to discuss on where to utilize our remaining settler. I'll leave it up to the next person to settle on turn 0.

I think we have 3 options for him at this point.

1) Settle where he is

2) Settle one step north

3) Don't settle until we deal with our econ problem. Which.. would risk having Peter settling a city nearby.

What do you all think?

If we choose #3, I'd suggest we keep running 1 artist in Circei until the borders pop twice.

Other items:

2 Caravels are on auto-explore at this moment. I don't remember if anyone circumnavigated the globe yet.. but we could try. Though I really doubt we'll get it as they had too much of a headstart on us.

1 Missionary is 2 paces from Ardea (I suggest we use it there), and 1 missionary is on the ferry (I suggest we send that to the to-be founded city, or Circei if we don't found a city). Any bit of cultural help we could get would be nice on that new continent. We should set one of our cities to just keep pumping missionaries to send out to us/Peter.

Good luck Rat!

PS, sorry for the edits if anyone was reading it just now. I typed some of this stuff before I decided to do the actions (got sick of alt-tabbing), so there were remanants of a few items that I changed my mind on Edit them out now!

 

[ThERat]

we got some cultural pressure there

I suggest to settle at the present spot. We will annoy Peter, but he has to be the next victim anyway.

For my turnset, it will be all about the economy I guess. We have too many cities in a short time, that's a problem in Civ4. But pumping missionaries and converting the others should help. I would try and send many to Peter. Each city with confucianism should give us +1gpt (did we build the Dai Miao?).

The circumnaviagtion has been completed by the English in the last turnset, however, knowing more of the world won't harm.

Eventually, we will own both continents and need to find the next proper target. So, exploring won't harm us.

 

[Thrar]

Converting might be useful for money, but since we'll raze the cities anyway at some point, I think it's a short-term profit only.
While we're in Caste System, we should get some merchants, since there isn't so much to build in some places anyway. I'd prefer that to building lots of missionaries that will only get us 30g or so each (1gpt until raze). For that, we might just as well run wealth (almost)!

Is it possible to settle 1 south of the current settler location? If so that looks like a useful spot to me, if not I prefer where he is now.

 

[ThERat]

save

Pre-Turn
Thrar's comments about missionaries are very valid
they only make sense to spread to our own cities

Antium is happy, lift the no growth lock, set it to monastery for +10% research
MM, turn down research and we make -30gpt

1. 1470AD
spread our faith to culture battered Ardea
found Ostia to harm our economy even more

2. 1480AD
our economy is really ailing, -32gpt at the moment
reduce science to 60% and we go to -7gpt, bearable at least

we get guilds, go for banking since mercantilism might be good for us

3. 1490AD
fire some artists since we have gotten border expansions, we need to finish those courts and start the FP
in the south

4. 1500AD
we can't build knights since we lack HBR ,
we should go for it after banking

5. 1505AD
we get a Great Engineer, that can be used to rush the FP on the other Island
clearing a forest speeds up the court at whaling station

6. 1510AD
we are now at positive cash flow at 60% science

IT we meet Mansa Musa, the fellow is up all techs that he could be

7. 1515AD
Circei is turning into a nice city slowly, finishes court as well
rush FP there
increase science to 70%, but this means -17gpt

8. 1520AD
our income makes one fantastic jump, we are now at break even at 70% science
now we can start to prepare for the next war

IT banking is in, HBR in 2 for knights

9. 1645AD
Alexandria grows very fast, it can be a super specialist city in the future
for now we can leave it to grow since the whale will be connected by work boat soon
(will reach whale in 2)
one caravel finally spots some land in the east

I think we should adopt mercantilism and hereditary rule for happiness and more specialists

next player should prepare for war, Peter doesn't look that strong and can really use the money and reduce culture pressure, income up by 39gpt from 9 turns ago

 

[ThERat]

and the Roster:
ThERat - just played
Dimy - up
Greebley - on deck
Thrar -
Xarathas

 

[Dimy]

Good job on the finance bit! I'll play this evening and see what I can do to prepare the next war. Hmm Mansa Musa is close to us in score as well.

 

[Xarathas]

Regarding our finances.

I think we should still send a few missionaries to Peter, at least to his coastal cities. Not only do we get a few gold (temporarily), we also get the chance of him spreading that religion to our other neighbors (once they get the required tech to trade overseas). Unless, we plan on doing another invasion in the near future, then this point is moot.

I agree with the merchants though. Might as well make use of that caste system if we're sticking with it. We should make sure that we have one city ready to pop a great scientist sometime in the future. We could use an academy for our science city.

 

[Dimy]

I won't be able to play my turns until tomorrow after work. I wouldn't mind if Greebley or Thrar swap with my spot if they do have time to play. I can do my turns in about 22 hours from now the earliest.

 

[ThERat]

I doubt Peter will be around for much longer. thus, I didn't bother to waste sending missionaries in soon to be razed cities.
We do have 2 of our own cities that still need confucianism, but I had hoped it would spread.

In my mind, we should prepare to strike Peter, I started to build some military during my turns (something like 2 cats and 2 pretorians). In 2 turns knights are available and we should build then and then go for Peter.

 

[Xarathas]

Okay. Question though, what's our strategy at this point vs the rest of Hatty's cities?

 

[ThERat]

Okay. Question though, what's our strategy at this point vs the rest of Hatty's cities?

Since our goal is conquest, we need to get rid of both of them as soon as we can. Of course we cannot simply raze and replace as fast as we would like since this will spell doom for our economy. We need to balance this.
I suggest taking on Russia for a while, razing as many cities as possible. Egypt might be able to squeeze ina new town or 2, but once we take them on, this shouldn't be an issue.

Yaroslav has only 2 defenders at the moment, if the rest is not much different, we should be able to advance quickly.

 

[Thrar]

I think for now we should leave Hatty alone, at least until war weariness has gome down, probably at least 2 more turnsets. Russia on the other hand looks very inviting, at least to get the northern cities until about Memphis level.
Raze/replace again, otherwise they will resettle. We shouldn't build too many cities there however, because of the economy. Depending on what the land looks like, maybe 2 or 3 more in russian territory north of former Memphis?

Depending on how long that takes, and if my estimates about war weariness are correct, we probably can resume war with egypt on my turns (in 20-30), but better not earlier imo. Probably later, depending on how things look like then. If we ever want to get out of that tech hole we need to get some econ.
Imo, the next priority tech is quite far away (but available I think): Astronomy. Then we can build galleons, and find out why everyone's score is so low...and make it a bit lower.


btw I have no problem with waiting for Dimy, 1 day is not the end of the world.

 

[Dimy]

Ok, then I'll confirm that I'll do my turns this evening I'd do them now, but gotta go to work... *cough* *cough* I feel ill suddenly...maybe I should stay home

 

[ThERat]

btw I have no problem with waiting for Dimy, 1 day is not the end of the world.

That's why I never commented about this. A fast turn around is nice to have but we will follow a 24/48 and nobody hasn't even come close to that.
Also, I would like Greebley to play after Dimy, he should be back by tomorrow unless he is still busy eating turkey and stuff.

 

[Xarathas]

Okay, so here's a suggestion. Instead of replacing cities in Optimal sites, we should consider the not-so-optimal sites (but instead the sites where cultural borders will best block off any chance of settlement). Of course, we don't want trash cities and still want to grab key resource squares when we can.. but I think we should strike a balance to limit the # of cities we build. After we build them, they should all run 1 or 2 artists right off the bat (via mercantilism) until the border pops once or twice depending on the need.

 

[knupp715]

Hey Guys. Just wanted to say your game is looking pretty nice. I've been following along for a few days now. Just finally subscribed. Good Luck with Russia and the rest of the world.

 

[Dimy]

Well I've finished my turns, so here's my log of events:

Turn 0 - 1525 AD:
Checking our situation and cities, make a few changes in city screen, either to increase production in certain cities or to improve growth/commerce where needed.

Turn 1 - 1530 AD:
Moving units around the map, shipping units to the other continent. Start building 1 Catapult and 2 Praetorians in cities that had finished production.
I change Civics from Organised Religion to Theocracy, Theocracy will give +2 free XP to all our newly build military units and has a lower upkeep than Org. Rel.

Turn 3 - 1540 AD:
We discover Horseback Riding and I queue up Paper and Printing Press next, Printing Press will increase commerce from Villages and Towns by +1 so will be good for our hurting economy/science. Lighthouse in finished in Circei and I start building a Forge to increase production. We make contact with Frederick of the Germans, who's 3rd in score and we can actually trade some techs with him! He has Philosophy, Civil Service and Gunpowder, we have Theology, Music and Literature. He's not in the mood to trade Gunpowder..even though it was white in the diplomacy screen. I trade Music and Theology for Civil Service (cheapest I could get it and in his favour...but we're so far behind in techs, I think we need it too much...) And I sell Literature for 70 Gold. We also agree to Open Borders with Frederick.
Last but not least...our whales at Whaling Station are finally connected

Turn 4 - 1545 AD:
Catapult finished in Rome, start on Knight. Mansa Musa has now become the leader in points

Turn 5 - 1550 AD:
Confucian Academy finished in Cumae, start building a Knight.

Turn 6 - 1555 AD:
Paper is discovered, next is Printing Press. Maceman is build in Ravenna and starts building a Knight as well. Whaling Station has finished the construction of a Granary and will now build a Forge. Setia just finished a Courthouse and will now build a Library.
I notice Peter has a Galley going to the only unclaimed piece of land of our continent in the northeast... I switch production in Arpinum to a Settler and hope we can claim the land before he lands there. (or we'll have to declare war on him of course).

Turn 8 - 1565 AD:
Colosseum finished in Antium and start on Knight. Cumae finished a Knight and starts on Bank. A Courthouse is finished in Satricum and I start a Granary there.

Turn 9 - 1570 AD:
Knight finished in Rome, building another Knight.

Turn 10 - 1575 AD:
Not much happened this turn, but I have some images from our current situation:

Arpinum in the lower right corner still need 2 turns to finish the Settler, Peter's Galley is closing in... There's another Galley just of the coast of the "neutral zone" but that one is empty. Wouldn't be too hard to take the city out if he might beat us too it though, he only has 1 archer aboard as defense. Also check the scores on this picture...Mansa Musa is just ahead of us while number 3 and the others are quite far beyond. Unfortunately techwise we're in deep trouble, I really hope we can catch up there... Some AI's have Gunpowder now and will soon have Rifleman as well, we need more than Catapults and Knights to beat that .

The city screen of Alexandria... I'm showing this because the city will grow in 2 turns, please make sure you keep running at least 4 Merchant Specialists, we really need a Great Merchant, we could ship it over to the big continent and find a nice big city there for a trade mission. We can than easily run on 100 % science for a while.

And here's the info screen... I don't think I need to explain this.

We're running at 70% Science at the moment and making +12 Gold/turn and have 211 Gold in our treasure. We can increase science to 80% and loose -13 Gold/turn. It won't speed up the discovery of Printing Press though.
Hatshepsut is the only AI that doesn't have all the techs we have, all the civs have the same techs + more. Peter might not look strong, but don't underestimate him, I haven't checked if he has Gunpowder yet, but I'm betting he will trade it with some AI as soon as we attack him if he doesn't. I know he has some Maceman running around as well. I have a nice stack waiting outside Yaroslavl', there's about 8 Catapults, 6 Praetorian's, 1 or 2 Maceman and a Knight, second Knight is landing from a Galley the next turn. (These numbers could vary a bit, I didn't write them down).
About city management... at the end of my turn, I switched most cities on our mainland to Governor Control with emphasize on food and hammers, feel free to play around with this. Don't forget about the Merchant Specialists in Alexandria when the city grows please!

 

[ThERat]

Mansa Musa was initially ahead of us in score when we first met him, but this seeme to be a close race. Anyway, score won't matter, but we need to take out those foes.

I hope we can attack Peter in the next turnset. Since Greebley hasn't been spotted yet, I suggest unless he posts a 'got it' in the next few hours, Thrar can take it

and the Roster:
ThERat
Dimy
Greebley - up, if 'got it'
Thrar - could play tonight S'pore time
Xarathas