Rat 40 - Introduction to CCM

[Northern Pike]

We should be able to wipe out the Japanese and then the Koreans while they're weak from their mutual war, and that will get us off to a superb start. We have five war elephants in the Bangkok area near Japan now, with two more on the way. As soon as we have ten, which should occur around the eighth turn of Greebley's round, it'll be time to attack Japan. We should be able to add some chariots to the strike force before the attack goes in, too, although they're all on reserve duty in our core at the moment.

For now our war with Spain is a trouble-free source of promotions and slaves, so there's no need to end it.

Bangkok should build Buddhist Community after NS--no delaying on this when the culture is so cheap.

We have a slaver trying to hunt down that Carth warrior S of Saigon, but as long as the warrior sticks to rough terrain it may be difficult.

We have a slaver fortified in Bangkok.

Angkor needs constant MM so that we can get the best mix of commerce and population growth out of it while producing a WE every three turns. Soon enough, actually, we'll be at 20 spt there.

We're behind the Indians by Religion, and even with or ahead of everyone else we know. In principle we could have a monopoly on CoL when we discover it in four turns.

Edit: I'm assuming that our next tech choice will be Monarchy.

 

[Northern Pike]

The battlefront to come:

Note Korean Satsuma:

 

[ThERat]

what a nice lucky break we got

I agree with 10 WE we are ready to attack. Nice way to get us all the techs, that's why I said I don't think we need Glib.

By the way, eventually we should try and send some boats out for some suicide runs. Contact with the other big continent would be really very nice.

Roster
Northern Pike
Greebley - up
vmxa
ThERat

 

[vmxa]

That seems like overkill for just Japan. Are you thinking Korea will come at us, if we take Osaka? Japan is not very big and have a war already. I would not expect to find more than 5 units in Osaka.

Waiting is ok, if you are trying to take them down in a hurry.

 

[Northern Pike]

Partially I want to let the Japanese and Koreans bleed each other for a while before we get involved. Partially I want the time between our taking the first Japanese city and our eliminating them to be as short as possible, since we're going to be holding every town. And partially I prefer to attack in overwhelming force so that bad RNG luck can't stall us.

Edit: Also, the Japanese are building Silk Road in Osaka and The Great Lighthouse in Kyoto. Of course we can't wait indefinitely for them to complete those jobs, but it does reinforce the arguments for building up a little more.

 

[Civinator]

The Hebrews complete Solomon's Temple. Don't they have rather a lot of advantages in this mod, having no competition for their Wonders and their religion?

I don´t think so. They have no direct access to other religious great and small wonders. On the other side even Solomon's Temple could been built by other civs, that have a crossover religious worldwonder.

The Indians beat us to Philosophy. They've gone from having hundreds of gp to having zero to having 925 just in this round, which is hard to explain..

That´s interesting and at present I don´t have a good explanation for it.

 

[Northern Pike]

On the other side even Solomon's Temple could been built by other civs, that have a crossover religious worldwonder.

Ah, I didn't know that.

 

[vmxa]

Partially I want to let the Japanese and Koreans bleed each other for a while before we get involved. Partially I want the time between our taking the first Japanese city and our eliminating them to be as short as possible, since we're going to be holding every town. And partially I prefer to attack in overwhelming force so that bad RNG luck can't stall us.

I think the quick elimination, once the war starts is important. My main concern is that there will not be much bleeding. The Koreans could take Osaka and either finish Japan or make peace.

Likely Osaka has 2 spears and 2 warriors. The later could be some other mix like archers. Most likely no vets, maybe 1 or 2 tops. If Korea gets Osaka, then we have to start our war with them sooner than we want.

We could take what we have, if it is 6 or 7 and start them that way. Prefering to have an Enslaver along to spot their slaver. Maybe a bow could be brought as well. Then we could see what Korea is doing in that area.

It could turn out that we see no action and can wait for the full force. It could turn out that we see either Korea win a battle or Japan send out unit. In that case we can strike.

If we can grab Osaka soon enough, we could prevent Korea from getting out of their end.

In any event we should get some units and an Enslaver close enough to see a little of the sitiuation.

The Lighthouse is going ot be very hard for them to get while at war with Korea and soon us.

 

[Northern Pike]

I agree that Osaka probably isn't strongly held, but that's not my principal concern. I'm interested in accumulating a force that can take most or all of Japan's cities quickly.

There are exceptions, but on the whole AI civs of equal strength don't make war against each other decisively or competently. So I think the danger that the Koreans will take too many Japanese cities if we allow them a few more turns isn't great.

Only the Japanese are building Silk Road, so it's not excessively optimistic to think they might complete that one for us, war or not.

Your ideas for scouting the situation are fine. We have a slaver in Bangkok. Really we're arguing about a win-win choice here, and whatever timing Greebley finds appropriate should be good.

 

[vmxa]

Not even arguing, just tossing out a thought. True they do not even finish off civs that are very weak to them..

Edit:
I looked at the save and see they have at least 4 towns, so I am in your court now.

Edit2:
That may be the largest mountain range I have ever seen in C3C. This continent is going to be a bugger to manage with the dirth of workers and settlers in CCM.

 

[Northern Pike]

That may be the largest mountain range I have ever seen in C3C. This continent is goiong to be a bugger to manage with the dirth of workers and settlers in CCM.

I was thinking that too, but OTOH, in this mod a stack of just three workers can road almost any terrain at one tile per turn. I believe that includes mountains.

It does mean we'll have to plan ahead, and start building our road up to Spain while we're still fighting the Koreans, for example.

 

[vmxa]

I looked up the Silk Road and it is only 200 shields, so they may be more than half way done now. Seeing that they have maybe 4 towns, I would lower my guess on the troops in Osaka. Good chance it is more like 2 or 3.

The two biggiest patches of green are ours and Japan's, so we at least have continuity there. Korea has poor land and Spain is only a bit better, but they have more room than Korea.

I have no idea what we can do to deal with this continent. Just hope there is some green in the fog in the SW.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

BTW, does this Variant have the conquests type outposts that can see 3 tiles on mountains? They are great for keeping squares visible in very large mountain ranges as they cover a 7x7 region.

 

[vmxa]

Not sure, but I doubt we could come up with enough workers/slaves to make a dent.


Just looked and Outpost are the same in CCM.

Edit:
Outpost task comes from Dark Ages tech. I cannot tell if the Barracks would be osolete, if you built one while still in Despotism and then revolt to Monarchy. The Royal structure that gave us one will expire with one of the techs.
I am not sure if it is Monarchy or Feudalism. Barracks are hard to come in CCM and even harder to hold on to.

PS:
We are close to our unit support.

 

[Northern Pike]

The barracks (despotism) that becomes available with Dark Ages does disappear when the player enters monarchy.

 

[vmxa]

Rats, not going to be much use then.

 

[ThERat]

Greebley, I don't think we will ever use outposts on a larger scale until we can build workers ourselves.

I agree with all of you, our continent looks less than pretty. I out the settings to random

As for barracks, we will get castles that provide 75% defense plus and rax. This build comes with feudalism.

 

[Greebley]

I am not suggesting it now. While there are more important things for workers, then you use them that way first.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Looks good

IBT: 3 more Spanish Archers spotted 3 N of Hanoi.

900 BC: Kill Archer with Slaver - No Slave.

IBT: Osaka has Silk Road. Oracle was also completed. World religion Buddist and Great Library also being built. A landing of a Chariot near Rangoon

860 BC: Kill stack of 4 Spanish Archers, 2 Elite and 2 Slaver victories - no slave or leader. Units will need to heal. Kill the Chariot with our Chariot

IBT: Spanish Spear near us now.

820 BC: Slaver retreats to Spear. Bowman kills it.

IBT: We get Code of Laws. Start Monarchy in 24. Spain lands a Sword in our lands.

780 BC: Slaver barely kills a Carthage Archer.
We lose a Bowman to a Sword. The next Bowman kills him.

IBT: We get a Shipment Spanish is Bombarding us near Bankok

740 BC: Bring home the Shipment. Nearly ready to take on Japan - 9 Elephants, 2 Enslavers, 2 Chariots, Spear will be there next turn. Increase Lux to 20%

IBT: More Spanish Bombardment.

700 BC: I forget the rules for declaring war in regular games with units in the enemy territory, so I declare war before moving into Japanese lands. Our forces are big enough, I don't see a difference in pre-declaring.

IBT: Enslaver attacks our Slaver and get a Worker Stack of 3. Sadly, I could have easily covered with a Spear that was next to it. Invisible unit attacks Bankok. Note I think that one was Spanish and one was Japanese, though I have no proof of that.

I thought it was mentioned workers could see enslavers. The Workers could see the hills that the Enslavers must have come from, so I guess they can't see them afterall?

660 BC: Kill both Invisible units, though we lose a Bowman in Bankok trying to do so. Try to take back 2 of the Workers but they die??

IBT: Chariot attacks our stack and loses to an Elephant.

620 BC: Our brand new Elephant loses to a stupid Archer.
Attack on Osaka, our first elephant retreats to the Spear, our Second is killed. The rest is easy and we kill the 2 Spear (gaining a worker), and nearby Warrior, Chariot, and Archer. Osaka is captured and Silk Road is ours. Start National Symbol

IBT: Italian City completes Roman Senate.
Hebrew completes Jewish Worldrelgion.
Spanish Spear is coming near us.

580 BC: Units from Osaka are healing. Something we cannot see seems to bombard our stack on the coast. We build a castle ship that fails to bombard the Spanish one. Our second stack finally arrives at Kagoshima on the wrong side of the river.

540 BC: Stack ready to take on the rest of the Japanese. Our second stack is on the right side of the river.

Notes:
For turns we usually end with '1' such as turn 81. This makes the years round off (would have been 500 BC for me for example). However I played 10 to stop on turn 80. Next player could play to 300 BC for 11 turns.

We have 4 units that I hope can take out Kagoshima.

A stack of 7 units is ready to move against the next Japanese city - probably the Capitol

Building more Spear to cover our Workers and such. We really should have 2 units on each - one with defense 2.

Stack guarding vs Spain is fortified.

The next Settler was just upgraded. It might be useful to grab the Iron, but finding a spot is a problem. It is all hills. I think a coastal town that could get the floodplains near Hanoi, hills and the coastal squares seems best for that. There really is only one spot that would be good with 3 Floodplains supporting 6 hills, and then several costal squares as well. I marked it on the picture.

There has been little in the way of Japanese units, so the defense on Osaka is not large. We can move the bowman closer.

I hope I didn't miss any plans we had for builds. I did a very quick re-read before starting (if I did, it was too quick).

The cities are MM'ed for building the Spears and so need to be adjusted when the complete.

The other pictures show the 4 Japanese cities.

Note that Ankhor already has its Academy.

Since we are only playing at Demigod, I am not doing 'per turn MM' though you probably guessed that from last round.

 

[vmxa]

I forget the tech, but it seems like it was a pretty far distant from here to get the tech that lets us make workers. Once we have it, not sure will want to just bust out workers all over the place as it does not seem like we will have all that much good land.

We probably will not have lots of slaves for a very long time, if ever as we are not AW and settlers are not easy to come by either. Meaning we will hold towns more often that normal.

If the land in the south in the fog is like what we already see there, we will not have a lot of places to settle in the south. Maybe run a road and later a rail to the Carthage land and to the coast past it. Leave the mountain coastal stuff bare and alone.

We will see and attackers coming across the mountains and be able to react and not even need to have obseravtion post.