Rat20 - Middle Age AWM - Byzantines

ThERat

Deity
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
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Location
City of one angel
game settings: monarch difficulty
Byzantines
this time heed the advice and set research to HBR so we can get castle building and from their get to the next age
to get siegecraft and medieval combat (maces)

as we can do more than min research max it out at 90% science and HBR takes 12 turns
set a lot of towns to raxes, capital goes for spears first, priority is to hook up the horses

founded Varna on turn 10 to expand north and claim the gold hill
get HBR, next is castle building

played 15 turns as there isn't that much going on (next player can play 10 or 15 depending on what is happening)
we should try and fill the gaps and claim the iron the the north before the AI starts to pour in
castle building due in 11


the situation with a proposed dot map, feel free to discuss
note, Ancyra built a temple to claim some territory in our heartland

rat20888.jpg


The Roster
TheRat - just played
Doc T - up
empiremaker
pindicator
Greebley


save
 
Got it.

2 comments on your log:

Tech - Completely correct, if we can get HBR in substantially less than min run, head there. I usually played that scenario on higher levels, and then a min run on a more expensive tech is better.

City spots - ouch. This scenario, for a number of reasons (other resources, better forrests, no 'ducts or Harbors or Hospitals for most/all of the game), is pretty special regarding "great spots". There are like 5 extremely productive locations on the map, 3 of them unsettled, and you just managed to waste the one we could have settled :sad: . Would have been 2 NW of Varna...we should abbandon that at some point, IMHO.
OTOH, this place will be a frontline city for quite some time, so its full potential will only show in the midgame anyway, and the commerce form the gold early will help with research. Thus, not necessarily a bad move for now.
When settling new towns, please keep those restrictions in mind. And, keep in mind which of our cities do have a good potential: Constantinople, Ankyra mostly. Corinth is extremely important because of the Harbor there; we'll have that place building Dromons mostly (the Barracks there aren't tha useful; a Temple may have been better, to take controll of the two luxuries). Speaking of Dromons: The Bulgar capital will now be the 3rd good spot in reach, and has Tar; so this is the prime target (culture flips are pretty much a non-issue for us, if we capture it soon). Note we cannot (and should not!) eliminate the Bulgars: They have a remote city far in the North. But we even shouldn't try to remove them from our vicinity: Any tile occupied by a lone Bulgar Spear or Sword cannot be occupied by a German Knight or French SoD :).
And that means that Pitesti is untouchable, once we've taken Pliska: This city is home of their 2nd King (the minor Civs only have 2 Kings).

Something else: We need to connect the Quarry at some point, for City Walls (which require Castle Building anyway).

Important question; something I need to know before I can play:
Please give me a short summary of your AW-rules!
I assume: No initial trading, and declaring once a Civ shows up up in F4. What about MapStat? Checking F4 for intelligence?
 
lurker's comment: Speaking of which, Did you remember to declare war on the Bulgars? :p
 
Lurker's Comment: I read the last topic, and i'll be watching this one.
 
thanks for all the input, good to know for us...sorry about that city I settled, but it's a front line city and one a goldhill, should be good short term, later we can always replace the city.

AW rules, mapstat can be used to check intelligence, no initial trading here, declare once they show up on F4
 
thanks for all the input, good to know for us...sorry about that city I settled, but it's a front line city and one a goldhill, should be good short term, later we can always replace the city.

AW rules, mapstat can be used to check intelligence, no initial trading here, declare once they show up on F4

Fully agree about the short-term benefit. Btw, there is even one more reason why it should be moved later: Not coastal. But, we may need a port in that area, to shuttle reinforcements.

What about embassies? No, I'd guess.
 
lurker's comment: How can the Bulgars not have shown up on F4 yet? :confused:
 
@plarq: Berserks are frightening. Longboats are not, if you have Dromons.

Objective: Iron

The Save

IIRC, the only short-term disaster would be to loose the Iron to the Bulgars (which indeed don’t show up in F4 so far!).

Inherited:
Don’t really see the need for Barracks in Athens; prefer to get out another Settler asap. Switch build. Then, we need a couple of warm bodies for MP duty, preferably Vet Warriors from Larissa which could be upgraded in an emergency case. I also prefer to have a minimal cash reserve at hand, for partial rushing a few missing shields, so I turn off research for a turn or two.

Enter.
IBT: Athens Settler -> not sure…
Nothing else, Bulgars still not show up.

Turn 1: 891AD
Actually nothing of importance. Turn on research again.
IBT: Caesarea Rax-> Spear, Ephesus Rax->Warrior

Turn 2: 894AD
Move towards Iron.
IBT: Larissa Warrior->Warrior

Turn 3: 897AD
Zzz…
IBT: Sinope Rax->Spear, Constantinople Horse->Horse; Ancyra’s borders expand

Turn 4: 900AD
More of the same.
IBT: Attalea Rax->Spear, Nicae Worker->Worker

Turn 5: 903AD
Zzz. Wondering why I didn’t found the Iron city? Settler + Spear are in position, I just want one more cheap MP, don’t want contact with Bulgars, and wait for the road there to finish first.
IBT: Ephesus Warrior -> Warrior, Larissa Warrior-> Horse (may be switched to Sword or Temple), Corinth Spear-> Spear, Adrianople Horse-> Horse/Sword.

Turn 6: 906AD
Found Ochrida on top of the Iron, starts a Temple. Switch some cities to Swords.
IBT: Const Sword->Sword

Turn 7: 909AD
Notice ‘Emphasize Production’ isn’t turned on; fix that.
IBT: Caesarea Spear->Temple (vetoable). MapStat tells me the Bulgars have shown up.

Turn 8: 912AD
Declare on Simeon. Change Adrianople to Spear, we’re lacking some defence here.
IBT: No enemies show up. Varna Rax->Sword

Turn 9: 915AD
Start the road towards Pliska (note: Pliska is only size 2, which means it must have spit out a Settler recently)
IBT: A few Bulgar units approach. Ephesus Warrior-> Temple, Const Sword->Sword, ADria Spear->Spear

Turn 10: 918AD
Action! Vet Horse kills Bulg Horse (their only one, btw; starting unit, Bulgars have no Horses on their home turf) unscratched; Vet Horse retreats from reg Bulgar Sword after taking on HP, Vet Sword finish the Sword, Elite. 2:0

A good moment to hand over the game.

Castle Building will come in on the interturn. Considering Pliska (Tar, and the best Bulgar city) is crucial for us, I’d attack asap even if we may loose some units, and wouldn’t wait for Cats. Dromons are really important, to repel Longships and to bombard any units approach along the coastline. This of course depends on the research time for Cats; Pliska is on a hill, so ~15 turns should be worth waiting.

Constantinople will pick up the Forrest upon growing, to get to 10spt again; please don't change that.

We may want to start a prebuild in Ancyra pretty soon: Bayeux Tapestry = Sun Tzu’s, and would be huge. One of two really helpful wonders. The other one is Domesday Book (5% interest, and in this conquest, gpt is extremely hard to earn).

Dot map:
Rat20_918AD.JPG


Blue is the insane spot I was talking about. Varna should go 1SE then; but this has time. Light blue is for the Quarry; this spot is on the river. White are filler cities for later - corruption is already troublesome, and we may want to delay those until the border cities are in acceptable shape. Exception may be the westernmost one - this will give us another source of Dyes, and the one @Sinope will get pillaged at some point, so it actually may not even be worth it to connect that one with priority.

Techs: MDI. Then, open for discussion. I'd go for Arab Learning after that, for the Libraries. And before someone suggests a Roman Tech: Bulgars and Rus are of Byzantine flavor, so they are forced to head there anyway (but may need around 80 turns), maybe it'll become much cheapre then.
 
the plan sounds fine, if we can actually take and defend Pliska, that would be great.

Once we get an army, we should try and wait for MDI's to fill it. That would be an awesome army. I think we might want to have a few more workers, remember in this game forests are absolutely great tiels and not to be chopped, but roaded.

The Roster
TheRat
Doc T
empiremaker - up
pindicator - on deck
Greebley
pat4
 
Pilksa will be hard to capture because it is on a hill.
Oh yes. And, it is a royal city, and the AI tends to stack defenders there, so expect at least 3 Spears.
But, waiting like 20 turns for Cats will mean even more Spears...and those will be Vets, unlike the starting units.

One more point: While our 2 Kings in Ankyra and Athens are 1.1.2 units, and at least serve as MP - Theodora is 0.0.1, and actually useless + costs us support.
But, IMHO it's a question of style - we shouldn't disband our leaderhead. Especially the cutest one in C3C :).
 
Regarding Theodora - I managed to find a possible use for her: Scouting for Assassins.
by the way, which other unit can do something against those pests?
 
0- Hit enter

IBT- Start Early Siegecraft, 18 turns at -1 GPT. (Arab learning would be 31 turns at 100%)

1- OUCH. We meet Abbasids. I expect to see some Ansars.

2- I see Buglars heading for our horses

3- I don't see any Abbassids yet.

4- Not Much

5- Spot a Abbassid curragh. Cannot sink it this turn.

6- Sink Abbassid curragh, and we enter a Golden Age.

7- I going to fortify a spear on the horses to stop Bulgars from pillaging it.

I have a sword going to pillage Buglar lands. They don't have many offensive units.

IBT- Never mind about the pillager.

8- More Abbassids.

9- Abbassids are heading toward Ephueses.

IBT- See Abbassid horses leave their territory.

10- Start to gather troops N of Adrianople

NOTES:

I would settle where the settler is.

Beware of Abbassids. The dromon can be used to bomb troops or improvements.

The Buglars are mostly using archers, but I have seen a few swords.

The Save

948.png
 
we should use the GA to pump more units to actually get Pliska and gain tar. we need it for the dromons
I would also like to hook up the stone to be able to build walls.

And head for maces with research now

The Roster
TheRat
Doc T
empiremaker
pindicator - can you play?indicated skip
Greebley - on deck
pat4
 
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