LK169, Italy, CCM 2.5, AWM

[LKendter]

I've installed Release 15 of the Flintlock path. I took JJs settings and put it into the .ini for Flintlock.

We haven't played Italy. Militaristic should be good for AWM. There are still multiple civs we haven't played.

As always, it takes a few tries to get a reasonable start. Jungle infested, contact before turn 10 by Greek Hoplite, all food (no production), center of the map, etc. AW is the hardest of the bunch, as normally I'd be thrilled with center of map and lots of early contacts.


4000 BC (0)
Rome is founded in a furry spot. The initial research is set to masonry. Walls are very good in AW.


2800 BC (24)
Veii is found by more furs. There still isn't a food bonus, but 2 cities have nice production. After monarchy, it becomes better when the forest can be mined.


2700 BC (26)
First contact has finally happened. I've spotted a Chinese warrior. AW is now officially going.
(IT) Maghreb and Babylon complete their UW.

 

[LKendter]

2660 BC (27)
Our first enslaver attacks the Chinese warrior. They simply kill it. (1-0)


2500 BC (31)
(IT) Egypt completes their UW.


2420 BC (33)
(IT) Masonry research is completed. The next research project is writing. That will give us supply center furs, and academy. We badly need buildings to work on. It is also needed to head toward monarchy.

 

[LKendter]

2100 BC (41)
(IT) USA shows up.


1860 BC (47)
Our archer kills the USA spear. (2-0)
Antium is founded. The unit support is appreciated.


1820 BC (48)
The enslaver attacks the Chinese warrior. It is simply killed. (3-0)

A Maghreb ship is spotted. I declare war. I hope their land units are far away.

 

[LKendter]

So far this has been a very weird start. There have been almost no hostile units in our territory. At some point the big rush should happen.

Writing arrives in 4 turns at a deficit. We can slip in some academies then. Unit costs are bad. We really need stuff to build. It is hard to pick the next tech. All of the below have value:
Wheel / iron working - are there nearby horses / iron?
City-state and code of laws - continue to head toward monarchy.
Math - siege workshop in Veii for second barracks. With having hardwood, it can be followed up by ballista shop.
Literature / Polytheism - theaters / temples to gain more happiness. Unlocking a cheap happiness building of Christian Communities will be a bonus with Polytheism.

I lean toward something the opens up more buildings. Unit costs are getting bad, and so far NO losses to replace.

ROSTER:
LKendter
Jersey Joe (up)
Elephantium (on deck)
Greebley

 

[LKendter]

Our current lands

 

[LKendter]

The next proposed city sites.
Red dot comes with 2 food bonuses. I suspect this will move us toward the cities from China.
Green dot isn't fully explored. I can already see a second happy resource.
I don't want to expand much east, as nobody has come from the way. It has been quiet so far, but I really don't want a 4th enemy.

 

[LKendter]

The save

 

[LKendter]

At this point the only way I want to explore much is a bit west. Maybe we can spot the Chinese cities as a first target. One random USA unit doesn't give much of a clue. Everything China from that area, implies Chinese cities to the west.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I would build on the Green Dot before the Red Dot.
Major reason for the Green Dot is the extra Happiness. Second reason is to make sure we build in that area before the USA.

Maybe Iron Working to find Iron and know what hills to build by. Then a bee line to Monarchy followed by Construction so we can trigger our Golden Age.

 

[LKendter]

ROSTER:
LKendter
Jersey Joe (up) Was there a got it above?
Elephantium (on deck)
Greebley

 

[LKendter]

I want the furs building for extra tax revenue, and the caravans. We will be running lots of deficit research, and that $25 helps.

 

[Greebley]

We may want to consider city distances a bit in AW. Normal civ AW - 3 squares per city really helps. With limited settlers I think distances should be 5 or 6 (avoid 7 or more). Your dot map actually fills this requirement well.

A unit can be placed in between cities to cover both if we are unsure where an attack will occur. Roads need to be careful about river crossings early on as well.

Later when the land starts filling up we should also have back filled the Tundra to the south. Having the only empty land can be really bad as every civ sends settlers which increases civs you need to fight. I have seen games lost that way. Fortunately, CCM takes longer to fill all land due to the more limited settlers.

 

[Dwarven Zerker]

Apologies if this is out of line for a lurker...

Why not put red dot 1 square east, losing the extra food but gains 4 river tiles for added income that otherwise is lost?

 

[Jersey Joe]

ROSTER:
LKendter
Jersey Joe (up) Was there a got it above?
Elephantium (on deck)
Greebley

No, In a much early post I saw Greebley's name following yours. I did not look at the current order and thought he was up. Also, Greebley had previously posted about wanting to play more turns in the early era. If he wants to permenantly swap with me and follow you I have no problems with that. Plus, I need a little time to rebuild my Civ3 setup on linux to make the flintlock patch work. Worse comes to worse I can play my turns on my slower win7 machine.

 

[LKendter]

Changing per the list at the end of LK168

ROSTER:
LKendter
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)
Elephantium

 

[LKendter]

Blue dot alternate. Wheat has to wait until border expansion. It gives up 1 BG in the north to gain 2 BG in the south. Blue dot sets up Gray dot to start heading toward my guess where China it. Grey dot will need some forest chopped.

 

[Elephantium]

I'm leaning towards red dot for the faster early growth, personally. I think we'll be 6 turns ahead of the blue dot scenario:

T0, build city. Build Walls, then Flag.
T5: Blue finishes Walls.
T7: Red grows, size 2.
T8: Red finishes Walls.
T10: Blue grows, size 2, and finishes Flag.
T14: Red grows, size 3.
T20: Blue grows, size 3, and borders pop.
T21: Red grows, size 4.
T27: Blue grows, size 4.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I want the furs building for extra tax revenue, and the caravans.

We should build it in Rome which will have more commerce than Veil.

I'd build Gray Dot first (for the production potential) but move it 1 northwest to the river tile next to the hill (to get 3 more hill tiles).
Second would be Green Dot (even though it is on a hill) for the Tobacco. Though moving 2 tiles northeast, off the hills to grassland gets a mountain at the loss of 1 tobacco (but we are not trading with anyone).
Then, lacking a better spot to build, it would be Red or Blue . However, I would move either of them 1 tile northeast for the increased commerce. We loss the potatoes but gain the peat. I would Choose Red Dot over Blue Dot since it has more production potential. To me, it seems that "growing" people fast only helps of we are whipping buildings.

nitpicking remark: Elephantium, Red Dot is settled 1 turn later than Blue.

 

[LKendter]

I prefer Green dot first to get the second luxury resource.

Changing per the list at the end of LK168
ROSTER:
LKendter
Greebley (up)
Jersey Joe (on deck)
Elephantium

 

[Elephantium]

Why not put red dot 1 square east, losing the extra food but gains 4 river tiles for added income that otherwise is lost?

Definitely valid. Maybe we avoid settling on BGs a little too much? I don't like losing the extra food, though.

I'd build Gray Dot first (for the production potential) but move it 1 northwest to the river tile next to the hill (to get 3 more hill tiles).

Seems fine.

Second would be Green Dot (even though it is on a hill) for the Tobacco. Though moving 2 tiles northeast, off the hills to grassland gets a mountain at the loss of 1 tobacco (but we are not trading with anyone).

Also good.

Then, lacking a better spot to build, it would be Red or Blue . However, I would move either of them 1 tile northeast for the increased commerce. We loss the potatoes but gain the peat.

I don't like losing the potatoes, but the peat is good long-term.

I would Choose Red Dot over Blue Dot since it has more production potential. To me, it seems that "growing" people fast only helps of we are whipping buildings.

It depends. Faster growth means more commerce until we run out of river tiles. Then it's a matter of the roading crews keeping up (which, TBF, is a serious problem in CCM -- but for the first ~30 turns, we'll have river tiles we can work).

nitpicking remark: Elephantium, Red Dot is settled 1 turn later than Blue.

Fair, I was assuming that either one could be settled the same turn: 3N from Rome, then W, W, W/SW. The roading crew next to Rome could change that.

I prefer Green dot first to get the second luxury resource.

And in a 3-way split, I'm voting for red first, based on the better growth! Greebley for the tiebreaker!

If we do settle green or gray first, I'll change my vote to blue (or 'Zerker's BG tile) -- the extra citizen doesn't seem as pressing on T105 as it does on T65.