Rat26 - Random AWE

[el_filet]

this city is going to be an asset for the following turns. but i hope with monarchy we'll soon be able to let our core grow. there aren't enough food tiles for three cites there. with the need to fill the whole continent asap - imo best started toward the furs - and the obvious city in the marshes (not worth the efford yet) founding two tiles north would have been a far better choice (according to dotmap in the first post). placing a unit on the mountain w of the desert city (now just one tile north to keep barbs from spawning in the marshes) is still necessary.

if we're able to settle our continent before another ai forces us to go to full war mode, i doubt we'll face major problems here. the city is just going to bug me everytime i have to do some mm around it.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Switch capitol to our UU. A fast unit will protect all our towns to the SE from landings. With defense 2 it will be good for that. Later we can get our GA with it.

Think about Incense for the FP, but it is a bit close. Notice Narjan has a great number of BG and a deer so start it there. Mecca would also be a possibility with its 2 Cow, but I don't think it as nice as Narjan.

Lower Poly to 3 turns.

Switch away from walls - I don't think those towns will need them.

IBT: Barb attacks us doing 2 hp to our sword. Temple of Artemis built by Iroquois. Egypt finishes Hanging Gardens.

330 BC: Capture Bagdad killing 1 Spear.

IBT: Mausoleum of Mooses is built.

310 BC: Move toward Damascus. Meet the Iroquois. They look like they are on our continent. Turn off research with 1 turn on Poly.

IBT: Iroquois and Arabia are at war! Explains the lack of offensive attacks by Arabia.
We get every Ancient tech excepting Currency.

290 BC: Building a colony on a Lux. I will wait until connected to revolt.

270 BC: Army Healing.

250 BC: Still Healing

230 BC: Capture Damascus

210 BC: We got the 2nd lux connected so I revolt. We get 8 turns Anarchy.

190 BC: Captured Fustat. Going to be mostly just holding what we have since we aren't producing units for so long.

170 BC: Kill 2 Iroquois Archer with Army

150 BC: Bombard and Kill 2 Iroqouis Spear. Army kills Spear.

Notes:
5 more turns of Anarchy.

We could consolidate by disbanding Fustat and Damascus. However, Fustat is worth 5 gold (1 + 2 for taxman + 2 unit support), and damascus is worth 3.

Arabia has 5 cities left and Iroquois have 17. Iroquois have Currency, but not HBR. They will likely make the next age soon. The bad new is Iroquois already have Horses (but not Iron) so they will get their UU soon as well. Arabia has no resources.

Next player will be facing Iroqouis initial rush which is fortunately only a bunch of Archers. I would work on minimizing unit loss until we get out of Anarchy and can build more units. We can also consider our GA, though it might be worth waiting until we get Currency to build Markets during our GA>

 

[Elear]

It looks like the early AD will consist of finishing the last of Arabia and defending versus the brunt of the Iroquois attacks while we build our army for an assault on them.

As the archers come, we'll have excellent opportunities for getting armies, so now we need to cross our fingers.

If we can manipulate properly and get a few armies, we'll start to make progress on the Iroquois. Remember that Mounted Warriors have low defense (3-1-2). Once we start seeing them, we should try to pick them off using the terrain. The AI isn't very adept at protecting their units, so as long as we have some walls, I think we'll survive that.

If anyone remembers the 'largest' civilizations ranking from awhile ago, Iroquois was at the top, so I think we have now met the #1 or #2 civ in the game.

By the way, are we thinking about getting a good fast force in production after Anarchy? The swordsmen are annoyingly slow. I suppose we could continue making them (for the 3 attack), what's the consensus here?

-Elear

 

[Elephantium]

I'm in favor of fast attackers. Swords are fine, especially once we start building cats, but fast units are generally better.

Also, Got It.

 

[ThERat]

this will be interesting with so many turns of anarchy how did that happen...8 turns

Anyway, I would still build swords and maces until we get knights. We can throw in the occasional horse for some fast movement/attack. MW have a very low defense.

For now, I would try and hold our land and then go out again after getting out of anarchy.

Roster
El Filet -
ThERat -
TheOverseer714
Greebley
Elephantium - got it
Elear - on deck

 

[Elear]

I seem to get at least 7 turns every time on Emperor and up after 500 bc. So perhaps it's not that uncommon?

 

[Elephantium]

Pre-turn:

Look around. Things seem a bit ... disorganized. I guess that's what you get for an Anarchy!

IT:

Order restored in Incense, quell one resister in Mecca, massive Barbarian uprising near Fustat.

Turn 1 (130 BC):

Kill a Barbarian near Fustat.
Kill an Iroquois archer in a raid from Damascus (1-0).
Bombard three Iro Archers near Baghdad.

IT:

The bombarded Iro Archers turn tail and run. Oh, well, we'll kill 'em another day.
We get Currency and enter the MA.
Mecca riots as the Resistance ends. I hire taxmen.

Turn 2 (110 BC):

Sword kills Iro Archer at Baghdad (2-0).
Kill two Arab Archers with the army at Damascus (4-0).
MM to prevent a riot in Sagras.

IT:

Zzz...

Turn 3 (90 BC):

Kill another Archer at Damascus (5-0).
Kill an Archer at Baghdad (6-0).

IT:

Two Iro Archers die before a third kills a sword who made the kill near Baghdad last turn. Too bad, the first attack promoted him to elite (8-1).

Turn 4 (70 BC):

Kill a wandering Arab Spear at Mecca (9-1).
Kill another Archer at Damascus (10-1).
Finally, bombard and kill an Iro Archer at Baghdad (he was in a stack of 2, so I don't leave anyone exposed).

IT:

A stack of barbarians ambush us. Five die before the sixth kills our brave spear.
Anarchy ends and we become a Monarchy.

Turn 5 (50 BC):

MM cities.
Kill two Iro Archers outside Baghdad (12-1).
Faced with a big stack of barb horsemen outside Adana, I rush a few buildings. We get Walls in Baghdad and Damascus, a Catapult in Aden, Barracks in Incense, and a Temple in South's End.

IT:

Lose one Sword in Baghdad to an Iro Archer (12-2). Across a river, too.
Lose our Spear in Adana to the first barb horse. The rest carry away a total of 12 gold.
Damascus: Walls->Catapult
Baghdad: Walls->Catapult
Incense: Barracks->3MC
South's End: Temple->Harbor
Aden: Cat->Barracks
IronMine: Sword->3MC
Ankuwa: Worker->Worker

Turn 6 (30 BC):

Kill four Iro Archers at Baghdad (16-2).
Disband an rWarrior in Rat26; Swordsman now due in 1 instead of 2.

IT:

Lose an Archer to an Iro counterattack (16-3).
Arabs found Mansura NW of Ankuwa.
Rat26: Sword->3MC

Turn 7 (10 BC):

Kill an Archer and return the army to Damascus. There are two Archers and two MWs in range to attack on the IT.
Kill two more Archers near Baghdad. (19-3)
We're up for another barb pillaging - we don't have enough defensive troops in the core, ironically enough - so I rush a rax in Kadesh for all but 3 of our gold.

IT:

Barbs pillage Ankuwa, and we lose population there.
Aden riots. I hire a taxman.
Kadesh: Rax->3MC

Turn 8 (10 AD):

Kill an enemy Archer at Baghdad (20-3).

IT:

Order restored in Aden.

Turn 9 (30 AD):

Settle Hubishna near Najran. Making Worker.
Kill three Archers near Baghdad (23-3).
Lose a Sword against an Arab spear at Mecca (23-4). Sigh.
Kill an enemy archer at Damascus with the army.

IT:

Lose two Swords to MWs near Baghdad (23-6).
Mecca riots. Hire a taxman.
Rat26: 3MC->Settler
Horsietown: Settler->3MC

Turn 10 (50 AD):

Kill two MWs at Damascus with the army.

 

[Greebley]

I would go ahead and start our GA. It will help against the Iroquois who are having theirs.

 

[Elear]

Got it, but I'll need a little bit to examine the save.

I'm for triggering the Golden Age also.

 

[Elear]

Noticed a few things,

a) The 3MCs are supposed to be heading north to help with the MW attacks, and trigger our golden age?
a2) Judging by the builds I see, 3MC are our new main attack force in the works, rather than swordsman.
b) Are we going to save gold, or use it to purchase troops as fast as we can?
c) The swordsmen in the west are trying to deal with the Arabic remnant?

 

[Elephantium]

a) I suppose. I don't think we NEED our GA yet, but OTOH, now is as good a time as any to trigger it.
a2) I started 3MCs because I wanted more fast units, especially for the warfare near Baghdad. Current builds can be kept as-is or switched to Swords, depending on your preference.
b) I think we can stockpile gold a bit. I was spending it because I had barbs pillaging us, but that threat is past.
c) Swordsmen in the West are there mostly as defense against the barbs. They could be used against the Arabic and Iroquois cities, though.

 

[Elear]

Pre-turn:

No changes. I'm pleased to see Iroquois are in Anarchy (even though it's short...they are in their GA).

IT: Arabs request audience, I tell them to shut up. Various Arab and Iroquois moves. Iroquois move on horses with a spearman, probably to pillage next turn. Fustat riots out of war unhappiness.

Turn 1 (70 AD) - Segras 3MC -> 3MC They are a lot faster at getting back to the mainlines, have the advantage of being able to survive MW attacks, and 2 attack can kill anything thus far.

Fix Fustat with a temporary entertainer. Undesirable, but I just need to connect roads once I deal with the wandering Arabic troops.

Spend awhile contemplating how to deal with the myriad of units in the north. There aren't really a lot of MW, but they're scattered. The army is at least 12/14 and ready to help out.

I first commence bombardment.

Catapult -> Spearman (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> Spearman (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> Spearman (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> Spearman (hit v. Iroquois to 2/3)
Catapult -> Spearman (hit v. Iroquois to 1/3)
Catapult -> MW (hit v. Iroquois to 3/4)

Then,

eSword -> rSpearman (win v. Iroquois, 1-0)
vSword -> rMW (win v. Iroquois, 2-0)
v3MC -> rArcher (win v. Arabia, 3-0, trigger Golden Age, now +100gpt)

This is where it gets a lot harder, since if I attack any MW in the area with the army, the army can't make it back to defend Damascus. The 1/4 swordman in the city is of course not enough to defend against a potential of 4 MW attacks. Therefore, I go ahead and kill the 1/3 archer on the road, and retreat back to Damascus.

Sword Army -> rArcher (win v. Iroquois, 4-0)

Faced with another decision. The archer can attack across the river to try to eliminate the final MW next to Baghdad . Both units have 3 hp left. Combat calculator gives me roughly 70 percent odds. If I attack, I will eliminate the immediate MW threat, although the archer left outside the city will face good chances of being killed on the IT.

If I don't attack, the MW will probably attack the defending archer. Granted, we have 6 catapults there, plus walls (+50%), plus fortification (+25%), plus the MW would cross a river (+25%), so we have 70 percent odds if the catapult hits, and 40 percent odds if it doesn't. If the archer wins, we're in good shape. If it doesn't, that won't leave much defense. The army is really busy holding Damascus. The elite swordsman that could otherwise help will likely be attacked by a nearby MW (and hopefully is only injured...)

I see merit to both options, although I am leaning towards the second (not attack).

What should we do team?

Screenshot:

Spoiler :

 

[el_filet]

vote for defense. odds of winning are lower, but if the archer moves out he's lost for sure.

 

[ThERat]

agree, go for defense. We should try and consolidate our holdings so that such a situation doesn't arise at all.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Defend, though I would kill one of the 2 MW's with the army if it has 2 moves. If not, then we lose the archer(most likely) and Baghdad next turn from 5 MW's on 2 swords. How far are the 3MC's that were rushed?

 

[Greebley]

If the Army still has movement, I think I would just move the Army back to cover the Cats and then abandon Damascus. Its not that valuable a city and it sounds like we don't have a lot of units. Once our GA starts we can push forward again. The GA will allow us to build the units lost during the Anarchy.

 

[Elear]

Notice! Scroll down to last turn for the most important part.

(continued)

Turn 1 - 70 AD

Defence did seem like the best option, so I fortified the archer and continued the turn.

vSword -> rArcher (on hill, loss v. Iroquois and didn't hurt it 1 hp, 4-1)

IT: vArcher -> vSword (loss v. Iroquois, promotes to Elite, 4-2)
rMW -> eSword (win v. Iroquois, 5-2)
vMW ->eSword (loss v. Iroquois, 5-3)

Some more MW appear and a small Arabian force appears in the west.

Turn 2 - 90 AD

Rat26 Settler -> 3MC
IronMine 3MC -> 3MC
Ankuwa Worker -> Settler

Rush 3MC for 64 gold in Incense.
Rush 3MC for 56 gold in Cadesh.
Rush 3MC for 84 gold in Segras.
Rush 3MC for 80 gold in Horsietown.
Rush Spear for 48 gold in Adena.

(Needed to rush some because the various fronts need help ASAP, and we'll get overrun without more troops on the frontlines.)

Catapult -> vMW (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 2/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 3/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 2/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 1/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 1/4)

Whoever built all these catapults, THANK YOU. They are making the MW retreat and heal.

Army -> vMW (win v. Iroquois, 6-3)

Vacate Damascus. Sell walls.

IT: Iroquois capture Damascus. Iroquois building Sun Tzu's. Arabia lands an archer on the west coast.

Turn 3 - 110 AD

Horsietown 3MC -> 3MC
Segras 3MC -> 3MC
Incense 3MC -> Swordsman
Kadesh 3MC -> Swordsman
Adana Spearman -> Worker

Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 3/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 2/4)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 1/4)
Catapult -> rSpear (hit v. Iroquois to 1/3)

Army -> vMW (win v. Iroquois, 7-3)
vSword -> rSpear (win v. Iroquois, 8-3)

Otherwise, just MM on this turn.

IT: rMW -> vSword (loss v. Iroquois, 8-4)

More Arabian archers appear in the west.

Turn 4 - 130 AD

Mecca Catapult -> Catapult
Rat26 3MC -> 3MCG
GLib Heroic Epic -> Barracks

Catapult -> vMW (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois, 1/4)

Army heals.

vSword -> rArcher (win v. Arabia, 9-4)
eSword -> eArcher (win v. Arabia, 10-4)

IT: Arabia destroys the annoying barbarian camp 2W of Hubishna.

rMW -> vArcher (Archer defending Baghdad, retreat for Iroquois, still 10-4)

Turn 5 - 150 AD

v3MC -> rSpear (loss v. Arabia, 10-5)
v3MC -> rSpear (win v. Arabia, 11-5)
vSword -> rSpear (win v. Arabia, 12-5)
vSword -> rSpear (win v. Arabia, 13-5)

Hittites capture the Arabian city of Mansura. Mansura -> Worker

vArcher -> rMW (win v. Iroquois, 14-5)
Army -> rSpear (win v. Iroquois, 15-5)

Citizen restored in Fustat.

IT: More Iroquois MW and Arabian archers appear.

rArcher -> v3MC (Retreat for 3MC, still 15-5)

Turn 6 - 170 AD

Rat26 3MC->3MC
Segras 3MC->3MC
IronMine 3MC->3MC
Hubishna Worker->Worker

Switch Ankuwa to Catapult from Settler, since Settler was a poor choice.

Catapult -> rSpear (miss v. Arabia)

v3MC -> rSpear (loss v. Arabia, 15-6)
v3MC -> rSpear (loss v. Arabia, 15-7)
v3MC -> vSpear (retreat v. Arabia, still 15-7)
v3MC -> rArcher (retreat v. Arabia, still 15-7)

(This is the only problem with 3MC, they are really bad sometimes for no apparent reason)

Rush swordsman in Incense for 60 or 70 gold (didn't note it down).
Rush 3MC in Horsietown for 20 or 30 gold (didn't note it down).

vSword -> rArcher (win v. Arabia, 16-7)

Catapult -> vMW (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 3/4)

vArcher -> rMW (loss v. Iroquois, 16-8)

Catapult -> rSpear (miss v. Iroquois)
Catapult -> rSpear (hit v. Iroquois to 2/3)
Catapult -> rSpear (hit v. Iroquois to 1/3)
Catapult -> vMW (miss v. Iroquois)

Army -> vMW (win v. Iroquois, 17-8)

vSword -> vMW (win v. Iroquois, 18-8, promote to Elite)

Sell walls in Baghdad.

In all, a brutal turn. I have a feeling it's about to get worse.

IT: Arabic troops move around a little.

vMW -> eSword (Catapult hits, Iroquois retreat, still 18-8)

Iroquois capture the Hittite city of Baghdad and have stolen 7 gold from its vaults.

vMW -> eSword (Catapult hits, win v. Iroquois, 19-8)
vMW -> eSword (Catapult misses, loss v. Iroquois, 19-9)

4 catapults are captured by the Iroquois army and wheeled into Damascus.

The resistance in Mansura (former Arabic city) has ended.

Turn 7 - 190 AD

Time to turn things around.

GLib Barracks -> 3MC
Horsietown Swordsman -> Swordsman
Hattusha Barracks -> 3MC
Incense Swordsman -> Swordsman
Adana Worker -> Settler

We don't even have really have any land to plant settlers on, and we need a strong counter-offensive, so troops troops troops are the answer here. They come fast in the GA too. I like combined arms at the moment, since Swordsman are the only reliable forces for attacking cities, but 3MC are much more effective at dealing with the MW and archers.

Catapult -> rArcher (hit v. Arabia to 2/3)

vSpearman -> rArcher (loss v. Arabia, 19-10)
vSpearman -> rArcher (win v. Arabia, promotion to elite, 20-10)

Catapult -> vMW (hit v. Iroquois to 1/4)

Army -> vMW (win v. Iroquois, 21-10)

Hittites capture the Iroquois city of Baghdad. Production set to walls.

Luxuries to 30 percent.

Rush 3MC in IronMine for 84 gold.
Rush 3MC in Segras for 76 gold.

IT:

rArcher -> v3MC (loss v. Arabia, 21-12)

Hittites capture a catapult.

Iroquois capture a catapult and attack the army in Baghdad. It was in the green too. They only reduce it to yellow (9/14).

vMW -> Army (win v. Iroquois, 22-12)

The resistance in Baghdad has ended.

Turn 8 - 210 AD

Rat26 3MC -> 3MC
Segras 3MC -> 3MC
Aden Barracks -> Swordsman
IronMine 3MC -> 3MC
Kadesh Swordsman -> Swordsman

Production in Mansura changed from Worker -> Catapult.

As bad as the 3MC seem to be doing lately, they are very fast at getting to the front lines, and I'm convinced that we just need a good force of them to start making moves on the Iroquois.

Catapult -> rMW (hit v. Iroquois to 2/3)

Found the city of 'NW Front'. Production set to walls.

Rush Swordsman in Horsietown for 92 gold.

Fustat production changed to Spearman. Rushed for about 30 gold.

IT: Unbelievable amount of MW come from nowhere and just overrun Baghdad. Several MW die in the assault, but they have no quelms about attacking the 9 hp army. In the series of attacks, the Army is killed, and the 3MC with it. The catapult is captured as well. The re-enforcements of three 3MC and two swords were one turn away. I have no idea what happened.

I'll stop here and pass it off.

I did everything I could to prevent this overrun, from giving up the cities and letting them capture, retreating, bombarding, etc. But it seems like their MW are starting to blast in from the core (powered by their Golden Age) and I was at a loss to stop them.

My other fault was letting them take Damascus (in hopes of re-capturing), instead of razing like Greebley said. That may have slowed them down enough for my re-enforcements to arrive, although I profess to have no idea.

Another big turning point in the turnset was losing the catapults trying to retake Damascus. Another devastating round of MW destroyed my swordsmen there and wheeled the catapult stack away.

In conclusion, we're facing one of the most powerful civs on the map right now, and getting beaten up at the frontlines. We need another army ASAP.

In the end though, I should have focused harder on the Iroquois instead of wasting 3MC trying to gain Arabian cities. If I had only put a few more troops at the Iroquois frontline... well, there's nothing more to say. I don't have any excuses. Here's the save at the start of 230 AD.

(note for next player: I put some of the troops on automate for my own convienence. You can remove this.)

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Rat26_AD230.SAV

Screenshot (red circles are the various battle fronts: Iroquois, Arabia+Iroquois, Iroquois, Arabia, from left to right)

Spoiler :

 

[el_filet]

got it, but too late to even have a short look. should have time to play tomorrow.

 

[el_filet]

took me quite some time to get into the game and will take a while until i can get to it again. will probably play and post well after midnight.

Turn 0:
2 cities threatened by arab archers, our single spears should be able to handle it.
capital produces 3MC with 21 spt? switch to market, will likely produce spears afterwards.
try but fail to identify something like a frontline. there's chaos with the unexpected loss of baghdad, but should be enough units there to change that until the end of my turnset. retaking it would help to get a defendable front, but seems out of reach for now.
small swordforce moved toward iro city in the west, concentration on the east is not possible yet.
lower lux, but i'm concerned about losing silk colony. the jungle should help against the MWs, but prevents our chariots from counterattacking. will have to give it up, just couldn't get myself to do that already.
with iro starting sun tzu, i suspect we'll be defending for the time being. maybe we can take back baghdad and damascus, but i consider NW front, najran and mecca our front line for now. hope we can finish the fp before more important things like rax or walls are needed in najran. nw front is hard to defend, maybe i can send a settler on the north side of the ridge and establish a front city there.


we have 2 MC and 2 sword near baghdad. retaking it would immensely help establishing a frontline, but i doubt we have a reasonable chance to do that.

 

[Elear]

Agreed there. I counted at least 8 MW when they took Baghdad. There are probably more a little further north (Damascus).

-Elear