Rat27 - AWM OBC as Persia

[el_filet]

elear can get it if he wants to.

i won't have time today or friday, tomorrow maybe. weekend is usually no problem.

things seem to go better since i gave this one to the next player. regret not having startet glib myself, since i was thinking about it back then. at least my roads toward luxes and mine for rome are useful now.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I would say you could take the save and play right now, el filet just went before I did and I played Saturday. Since you were already skipped once, you might play next to get back in the swing of this one.

 

[ThERat]

Elear, go ahead and play as this is your turn in the normal roster anyway

 

[Elear]

Ok, I'll go do this right now.

 

[Elear]

Pre-turn: Research to 40 percent (still WC in 2, +5gpt)

IT: Several enemy troop movements.

70 AD (1):
Persepolis Immortals -> Immortals.
Veii Worker -> Spearman.
eImmortals beats rHorseman. (1-0)
vImmortals beats rSpearman at Satsuma. (2-0)
vImmortals beats rSpearman at Satsuma. (3-0)
vImmortals beats rArcher at Satsuma. (4-0)
Persians capture the Japanese city of Satsuma and 43 gold.
Satsuma starts on Worker.

IT: Lots of enemy troop movements. The resistance in Satsuma has ended.

90 AD (2):

Warrior Code -> Horseback Riding. Research set to 80 percent.
Kyoto Spearman -> Spearman.
eImmortals beats rArcher. (5-0)
eImmortals beats rArcher. (6-0)
Satsuma changes from Worker -> Catapult.

IT: rArcher loses to our vImmortals at Satsuma (7-0). More French troops spotted.

110 AD (3):

Persepolis Immortals -> Immortals.
1st Immortals Army beats rSpearman at Orleans. (8-0)
1st Immortals Army beats rSpearman at Orleans. (9-0)
vImmortals beats rSpearman. (10-0)

IT: More troops...

130 AD (4):

eImmortals beats rArcher, and produces the leader Cyrus! (11-0)
1st Immortals Army beats rSpearman at Orleans. (12-0)
1st Immortals Army beats rSpearman at Orleans. (13-0)
Capture Orleans and liberate 12 gold, now the trick is to hold it.

Research to 70 percent.

IT: rHorseman loses to our 1st Immortals Army. rHorseman loses to our 1st Immortals Army. rArcher loses to our 1st Immortals Army. (16-0)

150 AD (5):

Research to 40 percent.

Army has 3 hp left. Strange, I thought Armies were a little better on defense. That's fine, I have it retreat into the mountains towards Osaka. Could still lose it. Will need to come back to Orleans with a stronger force if we wish to hold it, I recommend another army (although we don't have the # of cities to make one) or an army and a stack of spears/immortals. Taking any French territory will definitely be hard.

Bombard and miss a rSpearman with a catapult.
vImmortals beats rSpearman. (17-0)
vImmortals beats rArcher. (18-0)

IT: French capture Orleans. They ignore the Army.

170 AD (6):

Veii Spearman -> Immortals.

MM Persepolis to get a little growth, holding +15 spt.

IT: rHorseman beats our vSpear. (18-1)

190 AD (7):

Horseback Riding -> Mysticism. Research to 0 percent.

Persepolis Immortals -> Heroic Epic. Rush Heroic Epic with Cyrus.

vImmortals loses to rArcher. (18-2)

IT: Refuse Japanese embassy. Various troop movement.

210 AD (8):

Persepolis Heroic Epic -> Horseman.

Catapult hits rSpearman to 2/3.
eImmortals beats rSpearman. (19-2)
vImmortals beats rArcher. (20-2)
vImmortals beats rArcher. (21-2)

IT: rHorseman loses to our eImmortal at Osaka. rHorseman retreats to our eImmortal at Osaka. rHorseman beats our eImmortal at Osaka.

Terrible news, Aztecs build ToA, cascading to TGL (Hittites build it).

230 AD (9):

I really thought we would get TGL, and we couldn't make another Army yet, hence why I used the leader on the Heroic Epic. Now it seems like it would have been better to wait, since TGL could have switched to the Epic. There is nothing I can do but switch to a library. This really throws a fork in our plans, and indeed, how I planned the whole set. We only missed it by 5 turns, too.

Research to 60 percent.

Cumae Catapult -> Catapult.

If this is any consolation...eImmortal beats rSpearman at Edo, giving us a leader. (22-2)

vImmortals loses to rSpear at Edo. (22-3)

Catapult hits rNumidian to 2/3.

eImmortals beats rHorseman. (23-3)

IT: French capture our worker near Osaka, honestly overlooked, sorry. French start GW and HG. Various troop movements.

250 AD (10):

Research to 50 percent.

Rome Library -> Barracks.
Persepolis Horseman -> Horseman.

Catapult misses rArcher.
Catapult hits rArcher.

vImmortals beats rHorseman. (24-3)
1st Immortals Army beats rArcher. (25-3)
1st Immortals Army beats rArcher. (26-3)
eImmortals loses to rArcher. (26-4)
vImmortals beats rArcher. (27-4)

Post-turn:

The kill ratio was good, although we didn't hold Orleans like we hoped. The loss of TGL just made this an even harder game (without consideration of the attacks we are facing at the moment). The attacks here are nothing like the Iroquois swarms in Rat26, but the variant is making it hard to consolidate territory.

Edo is ready to capture, and I think it isn't long before Orleans can be re-captured. I am not sure if you should attack with the 3 immortals stack I have there, because I don't think you can quite hold it yet. Once the Carthaginian troops near Satsuma are dealt with, you should be able to get re-enforcements from there, as well as the 1st Immortals Army.

P.S. - The leader out by the wines isn't really meant to be there, it was an accidental click-drag GO TO move I made. You can take him back up north and make an army when Edo is captured.

The save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Rat27_AD250.SAV

 

[Greebley]

Missing the TGL was really unfortunate. It will make the game harder all right.

If the hittites are on our continent so that means finding them and taking it. I think we can pull it off. I think we need to be aggressive though to do so.

BTW a better build than the epic would have been a palace in Veii. I would like to move our capitol at some point. TGL switched to Palace would have also been nice. Probably should have mentioned the palace option as it isn't what you consider building in normal games.

We may also want to make Courthouses more of a priority. Remember that courthouses cut distance corruption by 1/2. Usually with a tight core this doesn't matter, but with our current setup, it will make a big difference. I would even go for that before Monarchy - Monarchy cuts our unit support. We want to stay on offense to drive to the Hittites if possible, so a Monarchy switch may have to wait a bit due to troop cost. With the TGL we wouldn't have cared but if we have to research on our own we need the greater support of a despot until we get more cities.

So I propose a strong offense with two armies and CoL over heading to monarchy. Courthouses would be built in most towns.

Question: Do we want our capitol in Veii or Rome at some point?

 

[ThERat]

wow, what a turnset

2 leaders are great. Losing the Glib isn't. I agree on courthouses, the corruption in Rome is the reason why we didn't get the wonder.

With 2 immortal armies, things should get easier. Beware that once we take out Japan, they will respawn somewhere.


The Roster
ThERat
Greebley
Elear - just played
el filet - up
TheOverseer

 

[qoou]

<whateverthelurkertagsare>
You could've switched TGL to HE and used leader to rush TGL in another city, but there was no way you could see the cascade coming.
</whateverthelurkertagsare>

 

[Tasslehoff]

lurker's comment:
They're playing Conquests, qoou, no great wonder rushing with MGLs!
Now, go roll some starts for the 3CC AWM redo!


Oh, and the tag is [delurk*] remove the *

 

[el_filet]

i got it, will probably play tomorrow

we should move the palace at one point, but i doubt moving it now will help much. off course only if we have a leader to rush it.

 

[el_filet]

Turn 0:
consider switching pult in satsuma to walls, but hopefully this won't be a front city for long.

Turn 1:
capture edo and destroy japanese. (1-0)
kill some units (7-0)
up science to get myst still in 2

IBT:
perse: horse->horse
kyoto: spear->spear

Turn 2:
found and load army (with 2 immo for now)
switch rome to palace for court pre

IBT:
myst->court (science to max, -13 gpt)
rome expands boarders

Turn 3:
decide to move 2nd immo army back to protect kyoto. no oppotunities to get rid of those NM.
capture orleans, 4 resistors (10-0)

IBT:
spear in satsuma holds off 2 NM (12-0)
perse: horse->lib
veii: immo->worker

Turn 4:
clean up some units (15-0)
switch walls in osaka to pult

IBT:
uprising in orleans, hire entertainers and starve
osaka: pult->pult

Turn 5:
move army toward and attack paris (17-0)

IBT:
horse scout gets attacked but wins (18-0)

Turn 6:
hold attack for a turn or two

IBT:
perse: lib->horse
resistance in orleans ended
veii: worker->lib

Turn 7:
setting up conquest of paris
hiring scientists in orleans should net us court next turn - if they don^t starve first

IBT:
two scouts fend of two units before one falls to french horse (20-1)
french land archer near kyoto
court->poly

Turn 8:
switch some builds to court
bombardment against last NM within our lands finally successful and get rid of him (21-1)
capture paris after killing two spears...this setup was a waste of time (23-1)
kill landed archer (24-1)

IBT:
perse: horse->court (that we won't have to wait for palace move in case leader spawns)
fp message. that'd be better than a court...
only two quelled resistors in paris. moved all units in, but flip risk seems far to high now.
cumae: pult->lib (harbor)
french start HG

Turn 9:
dyes connected

IBT:
immo in orleans fens off french horse (25-1)
Tlatelolco builds GW

Turn 10:
capture rheims. did not expect more cities north of there...
capture tours (30-1)


Notes to next player:
it appears the frech will show no more resistance - at least not militarywise.
carthago has been calm, i'm pretty sure that will change soon.
clearing paris of units until the french are history might be a good idea.
we're a bit thin on the front, i might have pushed to hard after the useless setup for paris.
satsumas shields mitght be better invested in court.
fp after court in rome seems like a good idea to me. unless we want to wait until perse can build it.
suggest orleans as our future capital, as soon as we have a leader.

 

[el_filet]

sorry for the delay, i wasn't up for it yesterday.

courts are in, pushed toward monarchy.

think we should decide on futere palace location. as mentioned above, i favour orleans (most cities around to get something like a core).

The Roster
ThERat - on deck
Greebley
Elear
el filet
TheOverseer - up

 

[Greebley]

Excellent progress on the French, El-filet.

Orleans seems a decent place to me. We seem strong enough vs the opposition, that we could use our next leader for it.

I made a picture, we seem to have a good front line with Carthage. I would work on taking out all the cities on our side of this line first and then start working our way into Carthage after that.

 

[el_filet]

fully agree on greebleys plan.

the few units i faced were problably due to an anarchy phase for french and carthago. i doubt the french can give us much more trouble, carthagiens on the other hand will soon send lots of units i suspect.
anyway, if paris stays with us next player should have easy progress. flip will slow us down considerably and push other french cities to flip too.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have downloaded the save and will begin play this evening. I am curently up and playing in SGOTM13, so I'll finish that first.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Finished my turn-set, went pretty well. I think we need more troops to go after Carthage, those damn Numidians are a pain. Anyway, here is my turnlog:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight check: CivAssist 2, Word program up and running. Load the save.
Non combat:
Workers 5, Slaves 5
Military:
Warriors 1
Spearmen 11
Horsemen 4
Catapults 4
Armies 2, 3 Immortals
Immortals 16

Press enter=>

IBT: America completes Colossus.
French horse attacks at Rheims, red-lines our horse, who promotes.
Satsuma catapult=>catapult.
Paris Starves.

360 AD: eHorse retreats vs French rArcher.
eImmortal wins vs 2hp French rArcher, -1hp.
Battle of Chartres:
vImmortal wins vs rSpear clean.
vImmortal wins vs rSpear clean, and Chartres is ours.
At Tours: vHorse wins vs Carthage rArcher, -3hp.(5-0)

IBT: French rArcher easily defeats exposed eImmortal, if the damn horse could&#8217;ve won against a regular archer on flat ground
Rome Courthouse=>Barracks.
Paris Starves.
Tours deposes.

370 AD: Near Chartres, vImmortal wins vs French Horseman clean.
Near Tours, eImmortal wins vs French rArcher, -1hp.
Decide to let army heal before re-taking Tours.(7-1)

IBT: Polytheism=>Monarchy.

380 AD: Still letting army heal. My internal military advisor is screaming for more troops, we are building infra in our only productive cities.
Change Veii to an Immmortal.

IBT: more French archers appearing, no attacks.

390 AD: 1st battle of Lyons, 2nd Immortals wins vs rSpear, -3hp.
1st Battle to re-take Tours: 1st Immortals wins vs 2hp rSpear, -2hp.
1st Immortals win vs 2hp rSpear, -3hp, revealing an Archer.(10-1)

IBT: Lots of movement, no attacks.
Persepolis Courthouse=>Immortal.
Veii Immortal=> Immortal.

400 AD: 2nd battle of Lyons, 2nd Immortals wins vs rSpear, -3hp.
2nd Immortals wins vs rSpear, -3hp, and Lyons is ours!
2nd Battle to re-take Tours: 1st Immortals wins vs rArcher, -2hp.
1st Immortals win vs rArcher clean and Tours is ours again.
At Tours, eHorse wins vs Carthage 1hp rArcher clean.
eImmortal wins vs Carthage 2hp rArcher clean.(14-1)
Unfortunately, will lose 2 catapults in the IBT to Carthage Archers.

IBT: Apparently the mighty French never lose when attacking defense 2 units, I lose 2 Immortals outside of Marseilles to regular archers, but do win when another attacks yellowed army in Lyons.
Lose the catapults, as predicted.
Rome Barrack=>Immortal.

410 AD: At Lyons, vImmortal wins vs 2hp French rArcher, -1hp.
At Tours, eImmortal wins vs Carthage rArcher clean.
eImmortal wins vs 2hp Carthage rArcher, -2hp.(17-3)
eHorse recaptures unguarded catapults.

IBT: No attacks.
A Carthage settler pair shows near Veii, I debate over 2 slaves, or let them build a town somewhere useful.
Persepolis Immortal=>Horseman.

420 AD: At Lyons, 3hp vImmortal wins vs 2hp French rArcher clean.
Armies healing.(18-3)

IBT: no attacks, little movement.

430 AD: Armies healing. Carthage settler pair stays on high ground.

IBT: French had a horse, recapture Lyons. Another shows up at Tours.
2 archers with a Numidian line up outside Tours.
Persepolis Horseman=>Horseman.
Rome Immortal=>Immortal.
Paris worker=>worker.

440 AD: 2nd Immortals wins vs rHorse clean. Lyons destroyed&#61516;
At Tours, eImmortal wins vs 2hp Numidian, -2hp.
eImmortal wins vs Carthage rArcher, -2hp.
eHorseman wins vs Carthage rArcher, -2hp.
vHorseman wins vs French rHorseman clean.
Near Orleans, vImmortal wins vs French rArcher, -2hp, promotes.
1st Battle of Besancon, 1st Immortals wins vs rSpear, -2hp.(25-3)

IBT: Our horse near Tours wins vs 1 Numidian, retreats from another.
Lots of French archers come out of the woodwork.

450 AD: At Tours, vHorse wins vs 1hp Numidian, -2hp.
2nd Battle of Besancon, 1st Immortals wins vs rSpear, -1hp.
1st Immortals wins vs rSpear, -2hp, and Besancon is ours.
1st Battle of Dijon, 2nd Immortals wins vs rSpear, -3hp.(29-3)
That&#8217;s it for me. We are pretty stretched, both in the width of our empire, and our lack of troops. Hopefully we can start consolidating things.

Non combat:
Workers 4
Slaves 9
Military:
Warriors 1
Spearmen 11
Horsemen 5
Catapults 6
Armies 2, 3 Immortals
Immortals 18

The save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/Rat27_Overseer__450_AD.SAV

 

[ThERat]

The French seem to still be going strong...time to get rid of them before heading for Carthage. I agree to take them on last.

When we get monarchy, it might be good to wait a while for revolt, else unit support might kill us. I would rather move the palace first.

got it anyway

 

[ThERat]

save

Preturn
things looks fine

IT Carthage lands another settler pair, but this might steal our incense

1.460AD
capture Dijon, defeat 2 French archer and we gt our MGL
rush a palace in Orleans

2.470AD
start to attack Rouen
at the end of the turn, revolt and we draw 6 turns anarchy

IT French start Sun Tzu, I lt the Carthaginian settlers move on, but monitor them

3.480AD
capture Rouen, the north is now all ours
well, I certainly can't complain about the RnG as we gain another army taking out a Carthage archer
I don't even have enough units to fill this army
take out 2 spears in Marseilles

4. 490AD
take out 2 more spears and Marseilles is ours as well
take out a NM with new army and a French archer near Marseilles
add another NW near Veji

IT Carthage founds another city in a nice location, let that grow
the other settler threatens our wines though

5. 500AD
defeat 2 Carthage archers

6.510AD
as we have 2 immortal armies for defense, move one towards the last French cities

7.520AD
capture Avignon, France has a mere city left, but we have hardly any units for defense
decide to take care of that settler pair next to our wines as we need that lux

8. 530AD
we are monarchs now, but our core is a little lousy and needs barracks first
set our old capital to build the FP in 31 turns

IT Carthage founds another city stealing one of the incense

9. 540AD
lose an elite immortal to a red NW...
attack French city of Grenoble

10. 550AD
take out another spear and Grenoble is ours, the French are gone now

I started quite a few libraries and barracks as we want border expansion to work better land
Rome is building immortals and other should follow suit. Three armies should be enough to take out Carthage though

There are now 2 Carthage cities in the hinterland, we might want them to grow to take them later on

our land and the new Carthage cities

 

[ThERat]

The Roster
ThERat
Greebley - up
Elear - on deck
el filet
TheOverseer

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.