Rate the Tenets - part I: Freedom Tenets

[kaspergm]

So, I want to make this series of threads, not just because I did it with the policies, but also because I'm actually curious about how people rate the different tenets - very often, when I have to pick my tenets, I have serious doubts about which ones are the best for me, so I would like to see which ones other players prefer. Let's start with Freedom!

I'd ask you to put your vote before the name of each tenet, like this:
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.


Give votes between 0 and 5, where 1 is worst and 5 is best, like this:
5 = Excellent
4 = Very good
3 = Good
2 = Decent
1 = Poor
0 = Bad or Very Bad

When voting, you can take into account both the strength of the tenet and how universal it is in its aplicability. How you weigh these different aspects are up to you to decide. Also feel free to discuss your oppinions or tips on different tenets.


The Freedom tenets are:

Level 1 tenets
_ - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
_ - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
_ - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
_ - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
_ - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
_ - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
_ - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
_ - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
_ - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
_ - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
_ - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
_ - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
_ - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
_ - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
_ - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
_ - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.


I will do statistics when voting has been going for a while.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

As you may know, I have a very hard time to rate stuff with numbers and in this case its very complex because its very depentent on the situation.

Example the Space Procurement is very usefull if you go for a science victory and got the gold to purchase a part to maybe win 10 turns faster however in other times completly useless.

 

[kb27787]

Level 1 tenets
_ - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. 4
_ - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. 3
_ - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. 5
_ - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. 0
_ - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. 2
_ - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. 0
_ - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. 4

Level 2 tenets
_ - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. 5
_ - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. 4
_ - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. 1
_ - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. 5
_ - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. 5
_ - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. 5

Level 3 tenets
_ - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. 4
_ - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. 5
_ - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. 5

The best tree in the game, in my opinion, is Freedom.

 

[BenitoChavez]

Level 1 tenets
3 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. - Universally applicable and more great people is just good. Solid Tenet
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. - Really only useful for CVs and only marginally so. +1 Tourism would make this much better imo
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. - Science is king no matter what VC you're going for and more food = more pop = more science
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. - I usually don't have enough spies to put in CS even when I'm going for a diplo victory. I need those spies in my capital to catch enemy spies or in other civs cities to steal tech.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. - Solid happiness talent. Universally applicable.
0 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. - Most other civs go order in my games. The few that do go freedom are usually on the other side of the map so I can't get to them and my cargo ships/caravans get pillaged by enemy barbs
2 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. - Ok happiness tenet. Some games I get all the national wonders, sometimes its only national college.

Level 2 tenets
2 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. - These military focused tier 2 tenets are odd in freedom since its not a domination ideology. Still this is good for some hammer/gold free army if you do get in a war.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. - Just a solid happiness tenet.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. - Only useful in defensive wars, which will probably be the only war you'll be fighting as a freedom civ. I tend to use units more than my cities regardless.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. - Freedom seems like a very specialist oriented ideology, especially with the statue of liberty, so some very nice happiness and synergy here.
5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. - I usually have 3-4 GS improvements. Factor in the national college, universities, etc its a lot of science.
4 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. - Useful for mass producing the cheapest unit you can produce for some nice CS influence. Also good if you get in a war.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. - Only for CV but its very good.
4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. - While trading with Civs other that CS is usually better, this tenet means you no longer have to pump gold into the CS to keep it as an ally
2- Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. - Saves you a handful of turns at best. Can be the difference for a win, but feels lacking.

 

[dutchengineer]

Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
3 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
4 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
3 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
1 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
5 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

 

[redwings1340]

4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. I almost always take this pretty early.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. Meh...
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. Since Secularism is one of the best policies in the game anyway, this is fantastic when combined with that.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. Almost useless.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. Gives a benefit and is on route to a lvl 2 policy.
2 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. Hard to take early. Might be more useful if more computers took freedom.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. I'll take this most of the time. It's good. Happiness is nice.

Level 2 tenets
5 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. Great at times. It even saves money if you immediately delete most of your army. Also works pretty well with Arsenal of Democracy.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. Happiness is nice. Good but not great.
2 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. I could see this being useful at times.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. Freedom is all about specialists and happiness. This makes that strategy even better.
3 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. Usually better things to pick in Freedom in my opinion. Still, other people seem to like it, so maybe I just don't see its full value.
5 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. Best city state policy in the game. Spam lancers and ally everyone.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. Very useful for culture VC. I don't usually choose it, but it's good.
4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. Useful for diplo victory. I don't always choose it, but it's good.
4 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. Useful for Science victory rush. Only policy that can actually make the ISS a viable strategy in reducing turn count as opposed to the fun wonder I don't want to give up.

 

[sendos]

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. I always pick this tenet as soon as I grab Freedom.
3 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. It's ok, but it does count later in game.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. I always pick this tenet as soon as I grab Freedom, too.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. Arguably the worst tenet in freedom, perhaps worst tenet out of all ideologies. Should be changed to increased maxa chance of successful coups to 95% chance. Double their effectiveness at coups.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. A low 3, more like 2.8, so I rounded up to avoid the messiness. The happiness bonus is usually weaker than universal healthcare, considering that Freedom is a must whenever your civ is a tall one.
3 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. Given ideal circumstances, this can help you increase gpt from a single trade route up to 50gpt. And I was Poland then. Imagine being Portugal (more like 52-55gpt from a single trade route) or Venice (600gpt just from trade routes to freedom civs or non-freedom civ capitols). However, if AI prefers Order, then the tenet becomes useless.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. Good if you have most, if not all of, the national wonders. Gives up to 10 happiness.

Level 2 tenets
4 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.Great if threatened. Useless if you're not threatened and you already have a decent army to defend yourself.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. Only decent if your cities are on rivers.
4 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. A high 4. More effective than volunteer army. Enjoy having cities with 200 defence points.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. A must have. I always pick this tenet first among the T2 unless I'm in dire straits.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. Very ideal if you have GP tiles all over the place
4 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. A decent tenet for disposing of military units.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. Reasonably good tourism boost but not as great as Order or autocracy.
5 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. An epic tenet, especially for Germany.
5 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. Combine with commerce and the parts only cost 1800 gold (standard speed).

Overall, freedom is a great tree because it further enhances tall empires to the EXTREME! If going wide, I would recommend Order instead because the factory science boost effectively offsets the science penalty. If conquering, go for autocracy instead. Freedom is best for those who wish to remain in peace, with 2 T2 tenets to prepare them for war.

 

[joncnunn]

The Freedom tenets are:

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
This is the best level 1 freedom tenet; if going Cultural victory this helps generating Musicians for Concert tours; for the other victory conditions it helps with Great Scientists for bulbing. The only downside is if you have a big puppet empire that it may increase risk of spawning an unwanted Great Merchant

3 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
Decent boost to future culture policy acquisition rate.

5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
This is a massive food growth to the capital of someone playing tall. (And so has all the guilds there) It also generally allows cities to run even more specialists.

1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
There's normally little competition for rigging a given city state; and even when there is simply placing a special agent there will work.

2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
I normally have plenty of happiness already.

1.5 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
Unfortunately, Freedom is very unpopular with the AIs; if you've pushed enough into revolt it can become decent though.

1 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.
Again, I have plenty of happiness already. And in the real world it causes unhappiness.

Level 2 tenets
2 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
Decent; and if playing Brazil could use a higher rating as these can be promoted to their UU

1 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
I have plenty of happiness sources already, but this seems to be one of the weakest happiness bonuses.

1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
My own cities aren't likely to see combat.

5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
Longer Ages are great and this is also the biggest unhappiness bonus to a tall civ in the game.

5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
This is also excellent for all victory conditions; those seeking science victories will love the science boost to academies while those seeking cultural victory will love the bonus to landmarks.

1 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.
Seems kind of blah

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
Going cultural victory this is a 5; if not going cultural victory a 3

3 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
Going diplomatic victory, this is a 5; if not going diplomatic victory this is a 2

3 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.
Going science victory this is at least a 5; if not going science victory this is a 0

Summary: For an empire running lots of specialists, this appears to be far and away the best ideology for any victory condition other than domination. But you only really want one of the level 3 tenets (whichever one is the direct benefit for your chosen victory type; the only time to get a second level 3 one is if you changed your mind about what victory to get)
In addition, most of the happiness ones can be skipped unless you are feeling ideological pressure.

 

[Pietato]

1 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.
Again, I have plenty of happiness already. And in the real world it causes unhappiness.

That is totally false. In the real world Universal healthcare creates a far happier, healthier nation, and lessens the gap between the rich and the poor. Only in the US among poorly educated or extremely selfish conservatives does it create unhappiness. Although this is partly due to the ridiculous cost of healthcare in the US, and the badly implemented focus on secondary healthcare instead of primary prevention.

 

[Brettapod]

Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
This is a great tenet for cultural victories, though it could even help with scientists

1 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
Provides no bonus that directly relates to a victory, and the buff is small unless you've spent all game collecting Great Works

4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
Extraordinary for going tall, which is something freedom tends to do.

1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
Has anybody actually ever taken this tenet?

2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
One of the level one happiness tenets. Better for wide empires going for diplomatic victory

2 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
Difficult to judge. You'd get the most benefit out of it when generating high tourism, but even then you probably won't need the extra money.

3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.
Slightly better than Capitalism, it provides a nice buff when building National Wonders


Level 2 tenets
5 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
Saves a ton of money, and gives you some nice units that, if you get them early, and deal some serious damage to your opponents

2 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
If you're going tall, this is nice, but there's some better options

1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
It's never a good idea to have your cities involved in combat

5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
Longer Golden Ages is great, and the halved unhappiness from specialists is appreciated by both tall and wide civs

2 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
This depends on your playstyle, but most of the time it won't have a large impact

3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.
Military unit production is nice, but bonuses for gifting units to city-states is not


Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
Now that CN Tower works, this can be a huge boon for your empire, even if most of your tourism is from one city

4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
Great for diplo victory. Gain influence and gold at the same time. HOwever, it's easily countered by Embargoing city-states

4 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.
You'll probably get one or two uses out of this if going science, and it provides a nice back-up for high-gold civs

 

[lokithepunishr]

As Denkt said, it's too hard to rate these when you don't take into account what type of game you are playing, obviously things like Avant Garde are useful 99% of the time, but all of the lvl 3 tenets are completely situational...

 

[reddishrecue]

Level 1 tenets
_ - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
_ - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. 4
_ - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. 4
_ - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. 4
_ - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. 4
_ - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. 2
_ - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. 4

Level 2 tenets
_ - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. 3
_ - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. 4
_ - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. 3
_ - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. 4
_ - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. 4
_ - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. 3

Level 3 tenets
_ - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. 4
_ - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. 2
_ - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. 4

Most of the tenets are good for science or diplomatic victories.

 

[Laurwin]

I feel like you really need to focus more on the great person management and GPP points, when playing freedom civ.

If you just use up all the specialist slots then you're gonna be falling behind in science mighty fast compared to order.

That order +25% science from factories is completely ridiculous bonus. I feel often like I have to choose between what I really want.

Freedom doesn't support any victory condition in a strong way.
Except maybe diplomatic victory. But even for diplovictory perhaps even patronage tree is better choice early on. (early city states allies save you money in the long run I would think - plus you can build forbidden palace for more world congress votes)

Freedom is made worse also because of the choice, between order vs freedom. Order simply has too many of the best policies in-game compared to freedom (or even autocracy)

Tall empire frequently will have good science, few cities - but problem for tall empires is usually lack of luxuries/strategic resources, lack of gold, and lack of military units, lack of global hammer output.

For wide order empire, factory science bonus gives a tremendeous boost to global science. Global hammer output is better than normally (five year plan +1 hammer on mine tiles).

Wdie empire usually have much better gold output - wide empires work more tiles and luxury resources etc...

Wide empires can field substantially large armies for short bursts of war activity. (fortifying units inside cities to avoid maintenance costs e.g. from tradition policy tree for example)




Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. (good policy)
1 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. (not very useful, culture victory seems really hard as tall empire, easier with wide empires)
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. (useful synergy especially with SoL wonder and universal suffrage specialist bonus)
2 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. (needs to be made better in my opinion, but it's a nice idea for policy)
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. (ok but not very useful policy, tall empire with specialists I'm always having money problems as compared to wide empire)
0 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. (AI never picks freedom ideology IF I pick freedom, king difficulty)
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. (useful but not great, science bonuses and gold bonuses are badly lacking in freedom tree in my opinion, it makes no sense that order get's cheap gold-rush for buildings for example, but freedom doesn't get gold or science boosts)

Level 2 tenets
5 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. (great policy for timed push rush attacks)
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. (useful but not great)
0 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. (not useful at all, armies exist to protect cities from attacks, and take cities from enemies)
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. (great policy good synergy with civil society and SoL wonder)
2 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. (good idea, but it's not effective enough, tile yield needs to be at least DOUBLED IMO)
2 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. (not good enough hammer boost, cannot compare to free +1 global hammer from mine tiles with order)

Level 3 tenets
3 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. (culture victory is hard enough, with tall empire vs wide empire, but culture is nice)
3 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. (useful but rather mediocre)
3 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. (haven't really used it so far)

 

[kaspergm]

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. This is imo. one of the best tennets in any ideology. Instant pick.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. More culture is nice, but the yield is too low to make it worth it.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. Also instant pick. Massive synergy with tall civ strategies.
0 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. This policy is awfully bad. First off, using spies to rig elections is rare. Having a competition between multiple civs on the same city-state all-but-never happens. Should give additional influence when succesfully rigging election, this would make for a decent-if-still-poor policy.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. Extra happiness if nice if a major cultural civ has gone Order/Autocracy.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. Far, far too situational. Requires civs you trade with also pick freedom, and even if they do that, the gold yield is just way too little to make it worth it.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. A low three. Happiness on this tends to be a little on the low side, but it is acceptable in freedom (contrary to order) because freedom tends to have very high priority on national wonders.

Level 2 tenets
4 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. Perhaps the only "troll" tenet in the game. If you do a very early push for freedom and time your culture correctly, you can get Foreign Legion before some civs even get Riflemen, which means your strength 42 (+20 %) FL face up towards strength 24 Musketmen. Instant pwnage. However, if you don't have a suitable enemy at the right time they lose much of their power, and while the saved gold on unit maintenance still makes it a good tenet later in game, it's not owerpowered.
2 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. Decent but not great, it's not better than the level 1 tenets that give happiness, and that doesn't make much sense.
2 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. Technically not a bad effect, but the fact that cities are blatantly overpowered makes it irrelevant in this stage of game.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. The reason, along with Civil Society, why I would want to pick Freedom.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. Very good policy if you have many Landmarks from archaeological sites.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. Pretty good I guess, but I have usually other things I would rather build in my cities than spamming military units and gift to CS. Can do a fun bit of trolling with this, however, but gifting a major army to a CS and have it rampage a weak major civ.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. Hello culture victory.
5 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. Hello diplomatic victory.
3 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. Not bad I guess, but I've yet to find myself in a situation where race for space was so tight that this saved me. But I do realize that players on higher difficulties don't have that luxury.

 

[njmfff]

Level 1 tenets

5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. - Why not?

3 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. - not that powerful in early stages of the game, can become quite powerful in late games. Not necessary for culture victory tho, but not too terrible.

5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. - must for me, powerful, it means you can run most of the specialists and grow rapidly, assuming you have good amount of food in the first place or few food trade routs (preferred sea)

1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. - never found it useful, picked it only once or twice. If you have lot of influence, you don't really need it.

3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. - if you're low on happiness, not bad.

2 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. - not bad, but I've rarely seen AI taking Freedom, unless he's forced to do it. They usually pick Order. If there are other Freedom AI's not bad, but those 3 gpt won't be much in late game anyway, when you have gpt over 500+

2 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. - same as Capitalism.

Level 2 tenets

3 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. - if you plan Go-A-Viking on your neighbour, go for it. If you have peaceful game, there's no really need for it.

4 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. - you'll probably build those building with Freedom anyway, so why not?

3 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. - if you get lot of aggro, not bad. If it's peaceful game, there's no really need for it, especially since you can always build Red Fort\Great Wall, or few Artillery\GWB\Bombers to keep you safe.

5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. - must for Freedom. Works well with Civil Society.

5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. - Must for Freedom guy. Not bad if you're going for science victory or if you're playing Korea.

2 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. - meh, bonus to CS is cool, you can always ally some military CS and get free unit, then ship it back for 20 influence. Production bonus is not really that great, since you'll probably have good production anyway. One turn less isn't big deal.

Level 3 tenets

4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. - more or less game finisher. Works well with Hotels. Not really necessary for culture victory, but it will speed it up.

1 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. - You can always dump cash and use spies.

3 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

Situational. If you're going for space victory, cool. If not, no need. Good for plan B tho, if you can't win culture vic in time, like when racing your culture with Alex's diplo win.

 

[Barghaest]

That is totally false. In the real world Universal healthcare creates a far happier, healthier nation, and lessens the gap between the rich and the poor. Only in the US among poorly educated or extremely selfish conservatives does it create unhappiness. Although this is partly due to the ridiculous cost of healthcare in the US, and the badly implemented focus on secondary healthcare instead of primary prevention.

Gotta chime in on this... whether it creates happiness or unhappiness depends on how it is implemented (the ACA is a prime example - some parts of it are good and some parts are not but the way it is being executed is abysmal). As for the "ridiculous cost" of healthcare in the U.S., it's because of the high cost of medicines in the U.S. - which is in turn driven by the cost of research. Despite the high costs, the U.S. has some of the best medical care in the world (which is why they've got 4 of the 5 top rated hospitals in the world) and more people travel to the U.S. for medical procedures than any other nation. Our expensive health care system has been pioneering research into equipment, procedures and pharmaceuticals for quite a long time.

On with the survey:
Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
--While I do make use of election rigging to maintain my allies against AI with deeper pockets, I think this is poorly implemented as there's seldom competition for the rigging. Double chance of coup or double influence from rigging would have been much better.
5 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
--Too situational (since most of the AI go Ideologies other than mine and takes a while to flip them via influence). Increase in TR with Open Borders (Free Trade) would have been a better idea.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
3 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
4 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
2 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
--Seldom make use of this as my cities are well defended and even when an unit makes it near, there's little need for much of a boost to take them out.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
4 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.
--I tend to field a large force of units (mostly National Guard who see little action) so when upgrades come along, I prefer to replace rather than upgrade and either gift or sell my old units. This helps churn out replacement and makes gifting them more useful.

Level 3 tenets
5 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
--By far one of the best CV tenets in the game.
4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
--Good for DV, but not as useful as Gunboat Diplomacy for Autocracy.
2 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.
--Probably one of the worst level 3 tenets of all ideologies... I tend to either have no need to buy parts or lack the funds to spare for it and would only even consider this useful in the rare situation where I'm racing to get the last part before an opponent... but military action is just as useful to win the space race and doesn't cost me a tenet.

 

[Pietato]

Everything costs more in the U.S. Have a look a the price of a hip replacement...

As for your hospitals, that is my whole point. The U.S never moved away from the massive WWII triage-style hospital type of healthcare, and into the modern primary prevention healthcare system.

I accept your point about the cost of developing new drugs, though. The cost of that is absolutely insane. Of course this also leads to the horrible situation we have now, where drugs are prescribed to absolutely everyone for everything.

 

[Laurwin]

Do you think domination victory is feasible goal with a freedom oriented empire, usualyy a tall empire?

I had a really nice domination game as tall empire Ethiopia. It was hilarious to see the Ethiopian great war infantry taking out the super-wide Japanese empire with relative ease in a continents game of mine. (king) After taking out the japanese it was simply a mopup operation.

I must admit though I would have won faster probably going purposefully wide, taking autocracy or order instaed.

If not, what victory condition is your "staple victory" with freedom policy tree? (the victory that is the normally pursued, the fastest/easiest victory)

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: Enough about national health care policy. If you want to talk about such topics, feel free to start a thread in the Off-Topic forum. Please follow Laurwin's lead and return this thread to the Freedom tenets.

 

[redwings1340]

Do you think domination victory is feasible goal with a freedom oriented empire, usualyy a tall empire?

I had a really nice domination game as tall empire Ethiopia. It was hilarious to see the Ethiopian great war infantry taking out the super-wide Japanese empire with relative ease in a continents game of mine. (king) After taking out the japanese it was simply a mopup operation.

I must admit though I would have won faster probably going purposefully wide, taking autocracy or order instaed.

If not, what victory condition is your "staple victory" with freedom policy tree? (the victory that is the normally pursued, the fastest/easiest victory)

I think you can win domination with freedom I suppose, but order or autocracy is usually a better choice for domination wins. If you have the right tall empire though, I suppose the bonuses to scientists and specialists might make it viable.

I feel as though freedom is really good for tall science victories. The strategy with freedom is to get a few big cities working a lot of specialists and gets lots of really nice great people. It is not a coincidence here that the highest rated freedom tenants work very well with each other. Avante Garde and Civil society should be your first two freedom policies, and Universal Suffrage can help your specialists be ridiculous. When you combine secularism (in the rationalism tree) and the Statue of Liberty in to this strategy, your specialists are absolutely amazing.

Arsenal of democracy/Volunteer army is also pretty nice for diplo victory.

One question I do have: Is it worth working merchant, engineer, and musician specialists once you've set up your specialist freedom engine? Even if you get fewer great scientists, it's not as if great merchants are useless, and specialists of all types are just so amazing after all of these freedom policies.