Rate the Tenets - part I: Freedom Tenets

[kaspergm]

I must admit though I would have won faster probably going purposefully wide, taking autocracy or order instaed.

If not, what victory condition is your "staple victory" with freedom policy tree? (the victory that is the normally pursued, the fastest/easiest victory)

You can win any victory condition with any ideology, but if fastest is your key, I'd say freedom is either Cultural or Diplomatic. For me, I almost always end up going diplomatic when I play freedom, simply because it happens much faster than cultural if there's one just remotely cultural focused opponent in the game. That's not because CV is badly designed but because DV comes too early.

I can't for the life of me understand how people can rate "Treaty Organizations" as bad, it gives you essentially 120 influence for free during the 30 turn time that the trade route lasts. Sure, the trade route will give a little less gold than with a major civ, but even if it gives you 10 GPT less (which I think is bigger difference than you will see in most cases), that's only 300 gold lost with the value of the influence boost being way more than 1000 gold in late game. If you have 8 trade routes going, that means the value of this tennet is potentially something like 8 x 700 / 30 = 180 GPT wich is WAY more than any other tennet in the game. And that's not even counting the secondary benefits in terms of CS bonuses and world congress benefits that you get from being ally with every city state on the map.

 

[Memoryjar]

Level 1 tenets
_ - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. 5 (free garden)
_ - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. 2 (Only for CV, and not important for me for the moment)
_ - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. 5 (growth)
_ - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. 3 (Usefull if I'm late with CS and going to DV).
_ - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. 3 (If I go into Freedom, I have bank, hope mint, and surely later Stock Exchange). My third pick with universal Healthcare depend of the game).
_ - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. 0 (Do I miss something ?).
_ - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. 3.

Level 2 tenets
_ - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. 1 (Freedom = cash, so cash = army or diplomatic trade to avoid war).
_ - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. 3 (Not as good as happiness with monument or prod buildings, universal Healthcare and capitalism seems to be stronger).
_ - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. 0 (Never pick it).
_ - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. 5 (No comment)
_ - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. 4 (Good but weaker than others 5).
_ - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. 5 (No comment to. Abuse with Commerce is insane).

Level 3 tenets
_ - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. 2 (Weakest of the three level 3).
_ - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. 4 (due to Level 3 autocracy who are stronger).
_ - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. 3 (SV = Order).

 

[Ronza149]

Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.More GP are always welcome!
1 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.Even a culture CS gives you more culture than this one.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.Best lvl 1 tenet in freedom,boost growth significantly.
0 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.What's the point of it when you almost never fail to rig elections?
2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.could be better if they added market.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.+3 gold is trivial and there aren't many civs following freedom.
2 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.It usually gives me around 6 happiness,not a lot at all.

Level 2 tenets
3 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.Fair for defence.
2 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.Again if they add granary it would be better.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.How many times do I use city bombardment in late games?Countable by hands.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.Best tenet for freedom tree.Period.
5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.Gives you insane GP tile yields,love them!
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. 15% military production is really nice.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.good for CV,still decent for other victory conditions.
3 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.I usually don't trade with CS,but still could e useful.
4 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.Makes SV a lot easier,but utterly useless for other VC.

 

[sendos]

Provided that you have lots of cash and the commerce purchase discount (+ big ben), you can complete a science victory instantly. Thanks to space procurement, I built 4 parts of a spaceship in just 1 turn. So I think freedom speeds up your science victory if you have lots of cash. Order is somewhat better in getting a cultural victory and also a science victory if they hoard up their GE's. Autocracy can get a swift diplo victory if they intimidate most of the CS'.

 

[Beaver79]

My favorite part about Freedom is that you really only have to take 6 tenets to get the full effect. Any more than that doesn't do you much good. Order is really strong too, but you will want to spend more than 6 social policies on it.

These are the only 6 I usually take. Sometimes I want Volunteer army as well but you have to spend another social policy on the weak level 1 tenets, so usually not worth it. I think Order has more tenets that you will want, but they aren't as strong as Civil Society and Universal Suffrage.

Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.


Level 2 tenets


5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.


Level 3 tenets

Whichever victory condition you are planning on, take that one. Only works for Diplo, science, or culture. I'd rate whatever you take at a 4.

 

[civ54lyfe]

without rating all of them i'll just say that my favorite of Freedom is Treaty Organization. it saves me sooooo much $$$ and gives me WC juice for free. a must have in any situation.

 

[Ronza149]

When will there be a rating order/autocracy tenets thread?

 

[kaspergm]

When will there be a rating order/autocracy tenets thread?

Coming soon.

 

[kaspergm]

14 votes done so far. Pattern is pretty clear, but if anybody want to put in a vote before I sum up for now and put up next thread tomorrow, go ahead.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. - it's very good but also very late.
0 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. - It's just so bad! Such a neglible amount of culture so late? Even early on it'd be worthless, but at this point?
4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. - just not what I want. Other ideologies have better Spy techs I think.
2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. - meh, not that bad but it's just underwhelming. Gave 2 because Venice benefits from it a lot.
0 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. - VERY small amount of gold too late, other civs hate freedom and even if everyone took Freedom it'd be worthless still.
0 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. - beh, just not a big ammount of happiness.

Level 2 tenets
4 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. - if you're first to the Ideology those 6 FL are worth a 5, but otherwise? 3. I took the middle one, 4.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. - wasn't sure if I should take 2 or 3, so I gave it 3.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. - I guess it's not bad and it could be helpful, but still it's a purely defensive tenet.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. - two very useful things in one tenet.
3 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. - eh, very late but can be very useful if you have a lot of those. If it were earlier, it'd be a 5, but so late it won't be too efficient.
5 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. - a good tenet that was hit by the nerfhammer a bit too harshly. Was an easy 5, but you can abuse it very easily still. Get Landsknechts with max Commerce and Big Ben to benefit.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. - best tourism tenet but still underwhelming.
5 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. - badass.
3 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. - meh.

 

[GoStu]

Level 1 tenets
4 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation. Solid bonus, useful for anyone. Especially good on Freedom with its emphasis on Specialists.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work. Not a ton of culture. Mostly useful as a stepping stone to more level 2 tenets if you're indifferent about the rest of the 1s you have left.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food. Massive growth bonus to your bigger cities that are working lots of specialists. Smaller outlying cities can now afford to work specialists too.
0 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections. The single worst of these tenets. I would never take it in its current form.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange. Tall civs don't suffer Happiness issues as much as wider or more militant civs, but this is a decent amount of Happiness should you want/need it.
2 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations. I find there's not many other Freedom civs out there. Also, I often have reasons to trade with civs of other ideologies, namely for Tourism bonuses. A gold bonus isn't bad but the other level 1 tenets outclass this.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder. Works better for Freedom civs than Order or Autocracy as Freedom civs are more likely to have most if not all the national Wonders. Capitalism might provide a bit more Happiness, but it's going to be close.


Level 2 tenets
2 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately. Two uses for this. One is a weird surprise attack on your neighbor, timing this out before Riflemen or Great War Infantry are available. Greasy and unreliable. Second is disbanding some other infantry and saving a few bucks. Meh. Freedom isn't the ideology for war, and six infantry type units aren't going to carry you to a significant victory.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital. Much like the level 1 tenets, it can be useful but Happiness tends not to be a huge issue for tall civs. Also, this has less raw effect than for wide civs - those civs have more copies of the same buildings so the effects are much bigger.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%. I dislike this for a few reasons. One, cities can already be super-obnoxious to take without this extra bonus. Combine Tradition, Freedom, a garrisoned ranged unit + ship, defensive buildings, and a Wonder and it'll be a goddamn nightmare to kill. However... this should never be the last line between success and defeat.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer. Solid choice for level 2. Likely gives more Happiness than any other tenet, especially with the other tenets that help Specialists making them more attractive. Golden age lengthening is sweet too.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield. Depends on having planted some Great People, but I tend to do that. Makes that occasional Merchant not bad as the Customs House is then worth working. Academies and Manufactories become even freakin' better too.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States. It hurts me that there's a better military production tenet in Freedom than policy in Honor. Still, there's some times where a city might have nothing better to build. Build a Unit or Two and make new friends. Make a Friend into a well-armed Ally. New tactical possibilities are nice.

Level 3 tenets
5 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower. Solid boost to Culture Victory. Pig-simple to use; easier than Order or Autocracy's bonuses.
4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with. It's a very solid amount of Influence, but a savvy enemy can screw you with a City-State Embargo. This goes double if Germany's on the board.
5 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold. Strong. The parts aren't cheap, but you can shave a lot of turns off with stockpiled cash, and it's easier to pile up the money than the Engineers of Order. Could make the difference between winning and losing.



Overall, Freedom's pretty solid. You can easily cherry-pick the best ones, and then go back to Social policies if so inclined, or pick up some of the 'nice to have' T1 and T2 ones.

 

[Jayhawks]

Unless going for a cultural victory where you want the increased tourism modifier on broadcast towers from freedom, autocracy is superior simply because it offers the most amount of happiness, which is necessary for wide and tall empires. Happiness is usually the limiting factor preventing more population and/or more cities.

 

[Twistable]

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
2 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
5 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
3 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
0 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
2 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
4 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
2 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
4 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
4 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
4 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

 

[kaspergm]

Updated.

 

[Tabarnak]

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
1 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
2 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
5* - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
2 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
5* - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
1 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
5* - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
1 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
1* - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

*
Volunteer army : Best war support tenet from Freedom for multiplayer. These Legions are da bomb when going domination. Get them first and see how they can counter artillery and any other industrial units for a long time. Enough to win the game sometimes.

Media Culture/Universal Suffrage : Best tenets for Cultural Victories. Usually, in cultural games, the culture rate is high so you can get the 3rd tenet in time, combined with Universal Suffrage.

Space Procurement : Order is much more better for science games.

-----------------------------

Other tenets don't need explanation. Overall, if i go for a multiplayer domination victory i will be tempted to go Freedom. Cultural victories as well for both mp and sp. Bad for all other goals.

 

[vibe96]

May I still vote

5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
3 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
3 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
0 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
2 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
0 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
3 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
3 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
2 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
5 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
4 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
5 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
3 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
2 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

Freedom is a solid tree with a lot to choose from especially in the second level, where everyone exept their finest hour are pretty good

 

[Browd]

Level 1 tenets
5 - Avant Garde: +25% Great Person generation.
3 - Creative Expression: +1 Culture from each Great Work.
4 - Civil Society: Specialists consume only half the normal amount of Food.
1 - Covert Action: Spies have double the chance to successfully rig City-State elections.
3 - Capitalism: +1 Local Happiness per Mint, Bank and Stock Exchange.
1 - Economic Union: +3 Gold from each Trade Route with other Freedom Civilizations.
2 - Universal Healthcare: +1 Local Happiness from each National Wonder.

Level 2 tenets
4 - Volunteer Army: 6 units are maintenance-free. Receive 6 Foreign Legion units immediately.
3 - Urbanization: +1 Local Happiness per Water Mill, Aqueduct and Hospital.
1 - Their Finest Hour: City Ranged Combat Strength increased by 33%.
5 - Universal Suffrage: Unhappiness from Specialists is halved. Golden Ages last 50% longer.
4 - New Deal: Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield.
3 - Arsenal of Democracy: +15% Production towards Military Units. Gain 15 Influence from each Military Unit gift to City-States.

Level 3 tenets
5 - Media Culture: +34% Tourism from Cities with a Broadcast Tower.
3 - Treaty Organization: Gain 4 more Influence per turn with City-States you have a trade route with.
4 - Space Procurement: May buy Spaceship Parts with Gold.

Not a big fan of Freedom, but it does have some utility in culture games (the Broadcast Tower bonus can be huge). As others have said, I find Order better for Science victories, but Freedom works there, and Volunteer Army can come at just the right time to deter enemies.

 

[Inhalaattori]

I have to agree that Covert action might be the worst tenet in the whole game. You pretty much always succeed in rigging the elections so what is the use. They really should buff this some way to make it viable at least sometimes. Now its totally useless. There are also some other tenets that are very situational, but with some civs or in some games they can be really good. There is never reason to get Covert action. It sucks.

Economic union at least can be OK if you have several other Freedom Civs around and you want that extra money.

 

[vibe96]

Arsenal of democracy sounds like the most 'murican thing ever!

 

[Helmling]

Do you think domination victory is feasible goal with a freedom oriented empire, usualyy a tall empire?

I had a really nice domination game as tall empire Ethiopia. It was hilarious to see the Ethiopian great war infantry taking out the super-wide Japanese empire with relative ease in a continents game of mine. (king) After taking out the japanese it was simply a mopup operation.

I must admit though I would have won faster probably going purposefully wide, taking autocracy or order instaed.

If not, what victory condition is your "staple victory" with freedom policy tree? (the victory that is the normally pursued, the fastest/easiest victory)

I am a creature of habit. I always play Greece (I know, lame, but what can I say.), max players on a huge map, and I always go for freedom. Now, sometimes I have to wage some wars to defend the free world and liberate city states and such, so I've done plenty of fighting under freedom in the late game. I think it's completely viable to win domination with freedom, especially once you use its specialist bonuses to slingshot you to utter, total, ridiculous supremacy.

In fact, right now I'm about to take out fascist Poland with my Xcom squads. God I love X-Com squads.

As to my staple victories, I usually take diplomatic. (I've already declined the win three times in the game I'm playing now so I can farm a higher score.) I find culture victory really hard with this many civs and usually accept diplomatic victory or build the spaceship before I get full influence over all the others. In the game I'm in now, though, I think culture is going to happen before I can get the max score I wanted; I'm at 13 of 17 and the others are rising fast.

The keys to these strategies: Treaty Organization and Volunteer Army (I give those a 5 on the OP's scale). Those 6 Foreign Legions grabbed early allow you to simply decimate the podunk armies around you. Then, later, fan out across the globe with trade routes to city states and watch them swoon.

It's so fun.