Ratha (Indian Chariot) Project

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I like that Vedic ratha . If Shiro is doing the four-horse one, maybe the two-horse variant should be a bit different - i.e. like the Vedic ratha.

 

[Blue Monkey]

A "huge waggon wth kind of umbrella" is what a fully developed Ratha looks like. Check out the OP of this thread, or the links in my previous post.

If the two-wheeled version is going to be a ratha instead of just another chariot, then the chattra (parasol) is critical. In the first link (in my previous post) there are pictures. Including the one stico posted (left side). The one on the right in his post just looks like a reskin of some other civ's chariot in some other game.

More chattra images.

 

[stico]

.........

 

[Blue Monkey]

This unit request thread probably holds some kind of record for the longest thread requesting a specific unit yet to be made. Inevitably, some key information gets buried. For a ratha to be a ratha there should be some ratha things:

It needs a chattra - which can be either a parasol or a fixed part of the ratha itself.

Spoiler :

From the OP of this thread:

Key Elements
What's needed for a Ratha (as opposed to any random chariot):
...

• Chattra (parasol) - this is the single element that must be present in any chariot for the Indian “flavor”.
  ...

Versions Needed
...

• Vedic Chariot is the earliest. Basically a standard 2 wheeled chariot with the addition of a parasol (chattra) & a pennant. This model could be set-up for a single horse.
  
  Spoiler :

  thumbnail
  
• Light Ratha. 2 wheeled. The chattra becomes more a built-in part of the ratha. I like the style with the curved wooden support. The top itself could be either cloth or wooden. There are versions with the pennant as part of the chattra & others with it on a separate standard. Either is fine.
  
  Spoiler :

  thumbnail
  
  
  ...

for a Vedic Era Ratha the best Vedic decoration would be something symbolic of the Vedic Indians. Like the Arya symbol - since they called themselves Arya.

Spoiler :

From the OP of this thread:

....

• arya symbol
  
  Spoiler :

  

...

Arya

Spoiler :

What is this arya thing in the first page for? Is it some sort of flag?

Spoiler :

It's Arya written in Sanskrit. It's what they called themselves.

As for what to do with it - excerpts from the previous discussion:

I think the texture needs to be really strong to be visible. Perhaps the Arya symbol can be used as the basis for a texture (on the right). I feel sheepish making the suggestion because I really have no idea how textures are made. And my quick paste jobs really don't do justice to what you can accomplish.

I have a few ideas of how to make the texturing less subtle...using the Arya symbol could definitely fit in doing just that. But I'm guessing I can't just mirror the symbol for the other side. Any suggestions there?

I actually was thinking of the Arya as mirrored on the other side. ... I think the suggestion of wings it offers as a texture works very well for the ratha mythos - each Hindu god has a "vehicle" which is normally called a vahana ("mount") but is also referred to as a ratha. Krishna (Arjuna's charioteer in the Kurukshetra War) has Garuda (an anthropomorphised eagle) for his vehicle.

My vague understanding is that it becomes a bump map - making the metal surface look embossed. It's okay to shrink it, stretch it (or whatever) to make it fit. Here's a rough placement on your model:
thumbnail

On the wooden version it could just look painted on - a good place for civ-color.

The clothing and armor should be distinctly Indian.

Spoiler :

Plotinus made a helmet for the Golden Warrior that works pretty well for any Kshatriya unit (although I think the long tunics he put them in make them look Babylonian more than Indian). Talk to him about the dhoti he made for the Indian worker as well. The texture looks very good in game. Maybe some palette genius can figure out how to make a civ-color version.

Sandris posted a WIP that showed a properly worn dhoti

A chariot-mounted archer would be a kshatrya. The sacred thread is a good location for civ-color

[*]The necklace & animal skin should be replaced by a yajñopavītam (sacred thread) that loops from the left shoulder to under the right arm near the hip. This is the distinctive mark of the kshatriya & brahmin castes (the ones who would be military). For game purposes a thin strap is okay. It doesn't need to flop around - moving with the body is okay. It can be any light color that looks good.
[/LIST]

Yajñopavītam (Sacred Thread)
thumbnail

There's a thread devoted to images / art for potential Indian units.

 

[Blue Monkey]

A little history:

The Arya started as part of the Indo-European chariot-riding nomadic tribal culture that eventually spread out into Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Indian Subcontinent. There must have been some huge argument/war that fractured the culture. Aesir (Norse Gods) = Asura (enemies of Vedic Gods). Whether or not there was an "Aryan Invasion" of the Indian subcontinent is debatable. Whether or not the migration was forceful, astronomical and geographic information from the Vedas includes evidence both that they came from somewhere else and that they were indigenous by the time the Vedas were fully composed.

The ratha evolved over time from a light two-wheeled version suitable for the open steppes into something four-wheeled more suitable for the Subcontinent. The later type gave the archer free range to move around the charioteer which increased his effective field of fire. It also allowed a small team of infantry to ride to the battlefield then hop off. Stico asked about a "wider" version. his preview looks like some of the rathas in the bas-reliefs at Sanchi. Thinking about a quadriga ... one wide enough for four horses & proportionately extended back starts to look very much like the four wheeled heavy ratha that Takhisis built.

A major reason Porus did not defeat Alexander was that heavy rains the day before battle caused enough mud to bog down the heavy rathas. Same thing that had happened to Karna in the Kurukshetra War from the Mahabharata epic. So in game terms the heavy ratha should have terrain restictions. And maybe be a land transport - like the vehicles in EFZI. Or perhaps that could be a UU.

 

[stico]

..........

 

[Blue Monkey]

It's looking good. Two things to change if possible

• Really really needs a parasol / chattra instead of the pole with banner. If you need a prop, I've got a very simple .obj
• Make the archer's helmet all shiny gold.

Those two changes will make it look much more Indian.

And suggestions (not requirements):

• Indians like things very bright & colorful. Use as much civ color as you like. Border trim on chariot, wheels, horses, whatever looks good. Even the arya symbol (which can be bigger - it's alright if the wheels hide part of it).
• If you want to do the conch blowing victory animation I can provide a conch .obj & make a sound file.

 

[stico]

..............

 

[Blue Monkey]

I have a parasol model already but images you sent me shown parasol chariot with 4 horses ans without parasol with 2.

In the chattra gallery (in the OP) I count seven images of two-wheeled rathas with chattras. In post 544 the two sketches I made of the Vedic version & the sketch of the light ratha all show a chattra. ; )

"Border trim on chariot, wheels, horses, whatever looks good"

Use as much civ-color anywhere you want.

and "conch blowing victory animation" - what do you mean here?

This post has a picture. They used a conch shell as a trumpet - blown to charge & to declare victory over an opponent. so it is a suggestion for victory animation. Just a suggestion.

I won't be able to respond more today. Working on two papers & a visual presentation.

 

[stico]

..........

 

[ShiroKobbure]

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=18970
Does that work?

 

[stico]

............

 

[Jerry'sGoldfish]

if you would have used utahjazz' horses it would have blended in 100%, but everything else is wonderfull

 

[Blue Monkey]

Turns out what I have is in Poser format (pp2, etc.). It has the texture file as well. Attached.

Animation would be holding the conch up to his face and tilting his head back or arching his back. Could be just one of the people, doesn't need to be both. Nothing fancy.

 

[stico]

........

 

[Blue Monkey]

No problem providing a sound. May have to come after the unit is posted. I'll need to edit from a longer piece & convert it. Won't be able to do so until midterm projects and papers are finished (this week and next full-time).

That chattra is a beautiful addition. Don't want to dictate, just a suggestion: it would be alright to put it closer to the back if it makes it easier to show the archer's attack.

The arya symbol looks much better in the new position. Are you putting it on the other side as well?

The dappled horses look really nice.

Have you thought about civ-color locations?

I know how much work goes into a unit & I definitely want you to do it the way you want. It's beautiful already. So at this point consider everything I say as just a mild suggestion.

 

[stico]

...........

 

[Blue Monkey]

Make the arya symbol civ color. That should simplify the palette problem.

I can do pcx no problem. Made dozens of pedia icons. Large renders are easy to reduce so keep it large. Preferably white background, but I can work with anything.

Sorry but I won't have time to reply more today. Busy. busy, busy.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Looks like the plan's finally coming together! Great work guys .

 

[stico]

.................