Ratha (Indian Chariot) Project

My feelings about the Ratha unit project

  • I'm likely to USE this unit but can’t help the project

    Votes: 13 68.4%
  • I can CONTRIBUTE skills/computer time to the project

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • I'm willing to COORDINATE a major section of the project

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • I think the whole proposal is Lame / IMPOSSIBLE

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .


This is another version of events that i've got.
I still need a bryce-compatable horse however.
Well, what could be done is:

Someone with Bryce 6 could take my Bryce file, and convert the Ratha into a Poser-loadable object, and things could be worked from there on.

I know we've all got our hands in multiple projects, but this has been knocking on my mental door lately. Is the lack of a horse model still the only hold-up?
 
I know I up and vanished for a while, but my poor disappearing act has come to an end. All is well with me, I just have had to engage in some re-prioritization of my time. I've been itching to get involved with a few units I left half completed or barely started. So, as a result, I thought I'd give this project a bit of a bump back into activity.



It's not much, but you can see I've put together the rudiments of a four-horse, two-wheeled ratha, hopefully akin to the artwork in the "Shape/Color/Variation" image above. The goal is for it to be compatible with Plotinus' great Golden Warriors. (If things go well, I'll look to the DBA sketch and work out an earlier version as well.)

The image is set at the 240x240 frame size, and it looks like the whole thing will fit fine if I don't go too crazy with the horses :) Clearly it's very rough, but I wanted some feedback before I put any intensive time into it. Mostly, I wanted to demonstrate the scale of the ratha to the horses and the PDMs and get any criticism on the overall model for the ratha/chattra.

That said, it's good to be contributing here again--looks like you folk have been quite productive!!
 
:bounce: That looks like it has a lot of potential...
 
It looks outstanding! :banana:

If the animations are easier to do two horses would be just fine.

These are the things I'd like to have (think of it as what architects call a "client's program"):

  • A small pennant on top - maybe the civ color location?
  • attack animation being an archer
  • a standard version & a version with the charioteer (driver) with blue skin to use as a unique unit.
  • I'd like to supply a victory sound - blowing a conch - perhaps the charioteer can have an animation to match. At civ scale the conch probably won't show, so if he raises his hand to his mouth that should be sufficient.
  • All the other animations & details are at your discretion.

This unit looks to reignite the fire in my belly for the Bharata Varsha mod. And I'll have to make a new advertar to match.

:coffee:
 
A bit of progress to report and checking-in to do...
Just these three renders of this proves that this will take a while to render when it comes time :) But below is one showing the work done on the Ratha itself, the next demonstrating the figures' garb, and the third putting it into civ-scale perspective. And there's a hinting at a golden harness on one of the horses.



Questions are as follows
-Is this just too much of the same color? I plan on complicating the cart with some texturing and the chattra as well, but the base color will be the same. Will mixing up the texture be enough?
-For the charioteer and archer: dhoti that whiteish color (thanks Plot for the texture!) or should I shade it civ color?
-Plain civ color pennant? (I have to work on the texture yet so it doesn't shine..forgot to do that before I did these renders)
-Should the horses be white rather than this mottled grey?

More fundamental question: Where should this be positioned in the frame? Currently the ratha itself is in the middle and the horses pivot around it in the various directions. Is that correct, or should I move the pivot point to the 'center of gravity' for the unit, which would be somewhere between the ratha and the horses?
 
-Is this just too much of the same color? I plan on complicating the cart with some texturing and the chattra as well, but the base color will be the same. Will mixing up the texture be enough?
I'd make the wheels and the pillars of the chattra a different color. Spokes of the wheels are another possible place where civ-color would suit it's being Indian. Mixing textures while keeping the same color should be fine for the body of the cart & the chattra itself.

-For the charioteer and archer: dhoti that whiteish color (thanks Plot for the texture!) or should I shade it civ color?
The plain color should be fine.

-Plain civ color pennant? (I have to work on the texture yet so it doesn't shine..forgot to do that before I did these renders)
Yes. I think the pennant looks nice as civ-color.

-Should the horses be white rather than this mottled grey?
Grey horses are fine.


Making it look exactly like the pictures has an built-in problem. The available pictures are all of heroes / avatars of gods. Thus the white horses & all the gold. It's comparable to making a common legionary that's dressed like the statues of the emperors or having all hoplites armored like Achilles. If you do the two versions, and only if it's a reasonable amount of work, I'd suggest the following:

Ordinary version:
  • Ratha not shiny, and not gold. Some pale color - your choice.
  • Grey horses
"Special" Version:
  • Ratha gold, as in your previews
  • White horses
  • Blue-skinned charioteer
Everything else can be the same: textures applied to the colors, riders' clothes & props, civ-color locations, animations, etc.

These are desires, not demands. A finished unit you're happy to have done is by far my choice over no unit because of my nitpicks. Make only one version if that's all you want to. And make any compromise you need to lighten the load.


Things I don't see: A shaft running out between the center horses - they look like they are free of the chariot right now. And a bow for the warrior. I assume those are both because these are just some preliminary previews.

More fundamental question: Where should this be positioned in the frame? Currently the ratha itself is in the middle and the horses pivot around it in the various directions. Is that correct, or should I move the pivot point to the 'center of gravity' for the unit, which would be somewhere between the ratha and the horses?
Someone experienced in animation will have to give you the definitive answer. If it's centered on the ratha is that going to make it look like the horses are trampling adjacent units? If it's at the center of gravity will it adversely affect the look of direction changes in-game? Go for whatever will work best in-game.

Over all: You're doing an amazing job! :banana: I know it's going to take a terribly long time to render with all the horses, the wheels, and the amount of detail. I'm grateful you are doing this unit, and I'm more than willing to be patient.
:coffee:
 
Things I don't see: A shaft running out between the center horses - they look like they are free of the chariot right now. And a bow for the warrior. I assume those are both because these are just some preliminary previews

Correct on both accounts...more or less. I hadn't finished outfitting the archer yet as the other questions were more pressing. As to the horses, harnesses, etc...I wanted to get the ratha done first before worrying about connecting it to the horses. That and I'm not yet sure how I'll represent the harness/reins situation convincingly. I'll need to take a good long look at Bebro's set of chariots I suppose...and then get creative :)
 
Progress on the harness/bridle/reins situation! I've found some free props and figures that will work much better than the primative-based things I've used for my horsemen. They'll be futsy to animate, but it will happen and there will be civ-scale visible reins that should move realistically, which is what I wanted, so good stuff there.

As for versions of this, Blue Monkey (et al. I suppose), with the time it will take to put this together and animate it there's no way I'm going to be satisfied with a single unit release...which works in your favor :) My plan is as follows:
  • Golden Warrior version as the previews (though I've changed the horses to white)
  • One with a Blue driver, likely dressed differently than the archer (aka, I won't just color him blue)
  • Your more run-of-the-mill, every day ratha (ditch the gold-ness, probably change the dress of the figures a bit to match some of the other concept art, and likely change the chattra as well)
Once these are completed, I may look to doing an earlier-looking version as well to match the image from DBA (though Blue Monkey, you'll have to let me know if this would be about the same as the "every-day" ratha...so perhaps the third iteration will look like the DBA image). That's my plan of work, so you know. (I like having plans.)

I hope having these all as two- rather than four-wheeled is alright. If any wish to model a four-wheeled one, I'd be happy to stick it into a Poser scene once the animations are complete, but I'm not planning on learning enough modeling to pull that off myself. My primative-based chattra is about the limit of what I'll be modeling :p

Progress may come in spurts as the semester comes to an end this coming month...and as I look to parts of my nearly finished set of Wallachians for the Medieval Balkans pack and the Klingon I never quite got animated...
 
3 units instead of 2!?:eek:
:banana:

Two-wheeled for all versions is perfect.

Suggestions
  • Your proposals are good to go on the "standard" version.
  • "Blue" version - Charioteer could have a garland around his neck. See the Tribal Fanatic for what I mean. The prop is here. The garland color can be left gold, or possibly be a civ-color. Might also want to give him the Asian Swordsman helmet. Perhaps a different texture on the armor would then be enough difference.
  • "Ordinary" ratha - I'd suggest making the chattra a one pole parasol - like what Quinzy posted but smaller. IIRC it's in a lot of the concept art as well.

Take your time. Like my drill sergeant used to say: "I'm lazy - I do things right the first time". I'd like to get more work done on the Steampunk project before I start concurrent development on the BV mod anyway.
:coffee::smoke:
 
I'm trying to get some texture onto the chariot, having some bits carved out and others appearing to be embossed forward, etc. The best way I see to do this is to use a bump map.

In order to create the maps necessary, I of course need the UVs of the object. The chariot I'm using as the base of the Ratha didn't provide UVs, so I created them using UVMapper and exported a new chariot .obj file to use as the base of the ratha. No matter which method I chose (plane or box...cylinder would be far too difficult to actually use) there is now and odd texturing/fragmenting on the front of the chariot. I can't seem to get it to go away and it looks quite horrible when rendering. Apparently there's some defect in the way UVMapper is remapping this particular object.

Has any one had problems of this sort with UVMapper? Any suggested solutions? Perhaps another way to get UVs for the .obj?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated...getting bump and transparency maps for this chariot is how I plan on bringing a little life to the body of the ratha. Once that's set I should be ready for a final OK and then to start animating.
 
I would try contacting Vuldacon, Hikaro, or maybe Plotinus. Also, there are probably quite few people who have the answer who do not follow this thread. It would be perfectly legitimate to start a new thread about the specific problem.
 
To begin...my deepest thanks to utahjazz7 for figuring out a way for me to map the main part of the ratha! I think the bit of texture it allowed me to add has added some at least. I'm open to criticism to make the model better, but the work I present here is, to me, ready for animation. Feel free to disagree and let me know what can be improved before I start moving all of the little pieces. ;)


The upperleft image is at civ-scale, and the next two provide some detail.

Questions for input
-How is the texture/pattern on the body of the ratha? The 'transparent' part look alright?
-The bit of texturing on the chattra also work? I think it breaks up the gold a bit at least.
-Notice I did add a bar connecting harnesses to the ratha between every other horse (comes through at some civ-angles and not others)
-The white horses...I don't have a hide texture better than this one. They look kind of 'flat' or something. I'm not entirely sure how to improve upon that
-Reins look alright?
 
Top Bottom