Ratha (Indian Chariot) Project

[Blue Monkey]

I know you're investing an enormous amount of work in this project. It's truly appreciated.

The upperleft image is at civ-scale, and the next two provide some detail.

It's a tricky balance between letting the human figures be seen and having the size of the unit not overwhelm others in-game. Here are some comparison images. Probably the 90% scale puts it more in balance next to other units. Imagine the size next to an elephant unit.

-How is the texture/pattern on the body of the ratha? The 'transparent' part look alright?

I'm not sure what is transparent on it. It's a good texture, but at civ-scale most of it looks too subtle to me. And the most interesting part is hidden behind the horses. At first I was thinking that moving the circles to the side would improve it (left side picture). I think the texture needs to be really strong to be visible. Perhaps the Arya symbol can be used as the basis for a texture (on the right). I feel sheepish making the suggestion because I really have no idea how textures are made. And my quick paste jobs really don't do justice to what you can accomplish.

-The bit of texturing on the chattra also work? I think it breaks up the gold a bit at least.

The chattra does look nice as is.

-Notice I did add a bar connecting harnesses to the ratha between every other horse (comes through at some civ-angles and not others)

If it simplifies rendering, etc. one bar between the central 2 horses & the ratha should be sufficient, I think.

-The white horses...I don't have a hide texture better than this one. They look kind of 'flat' or something. I'm not entirely sure how to improve upon that

Perhaps a "dappled grey" texture would work better and still leave them light enough.

-Reins look alright?

The reins look fine to me.


So much of the unit being gold ends up looking flat and hiding the riders who are also in gold. Adding the texturing should help. I don't know anything about lighting, etc. in the setting up & rendering. Is it possible to reduce the shadowing of the riders without ruining the way the rest of the unit looks?


I always worry about critiquing too much, when I'm happy that you are doing this at all.

 

[Micaelus]

First off, my thanks for the contributions and thoughts already!

I love it But what do you mean its in civ scale? It looks huge.

This looks really cool!
You may want to shrink it a bit, I know the units are all each civ scale, but because it is so massive it may look better if you scale it 5% or 10%.

It's a tricky balance between letting the human figures be seen and having the size of the unit not overwhelm others in-game. Here are some comparison images. Probably the 90% scale puts it more in balance next to other units. Imagine the size next to an elephant unit.

By 'civ-scale' I mean it is rendered at 240x240, with the PDMs at the same scale they would be if they were appearing alone as the unit. As a result...since this is significantly more than just the human figure...it is huge. I wanted to build the model at that scale to get the best idea of how the pieces fit together and look in relation to one another.

I'll need to consider whether I want to adjust the camera in Poser to do this 10% scaling or wait until post-production and resize the storyboards/flics accordingly. I'm not sure what would be more effective. Perhaps this calls for another spin-off thread? (Got good results last time with that )

I'm not sure what is transparent on it.

The open part along the front of the ratha, where it looks like there's a bar above the main body of it. You can see through that to the figures and was "cut out" of the body of the chariot with a transparency map.

It's a good texture, but at civ-scale most of it looks too subtle to me. And the most interesting part is hidden behind the horses. At first I was thinking that moving the circles to the side would improve it (left side picture). I think the texture needs to be really strong to be visible. Perhaps the Arya symbol can be used as the basis for a texture (on the right).

I have a few ideas of how to make the texturing less subtle...using the Arya symbol could definitely fit in doing just that. But I'm guessing I can't just mirror the symbol for the other side. Any suggestions there?

Perhaps a "dappled grey" texture would work better and still leave them light enough.

I'll try them grey again.

So much of the unit being gold ends up looking flat and hiding the riders who are also in gold. Adding the texturing should help. I don't know anything about lighting, etc. in the setting up & rendering. Is it possible to reduce the shadowing of the riders without ruining the way the rest of the unit looks?

They might be more shadowed again because I lowered the chattra down onto their heads more. Did you notice them as too dark in previous previews? If you didn't, I'll raise it back up a bit again...if you did, I can experiment with some non-shadow-casting spot lights on the figures and see if I can't brighten that area just enough.

I see the problem and, especially when reducing the scale of the unit, I don't want to make the figures disappear. But at the same time, the shadows I think are one thing that lessens the flatness of all the gold.

 

[utahjazz7]

As far as creating the texture for the front of the chariot, depending on which program you're using and how you're drawing it, you could certainly "mirror" the symbol for the other side.

The unit looks great, by the way.

 

[Micaelus]

As far as creating the texture for the front of the chariot, depending on which program you're using and how you're drawing it, you could certainly "mirror" the symbol for the other side.

I was more meaning that mirroring the symbol may make it non-sensical...or otherwise foolish in the eyes of those who know what it means.

(Though I think it would look quite nice symmetrically placed like that...it's shape is right for the ratha's in that way)

 

[utahjazz7]

Oh ...

 

[ShiroKobbure]

What about using a decorative swastika, since it should look fine being mirrored.

 

[Plotinus]

This thing looks amazing. I agree about the scale - I would recommend just looking at the Firaxis chariot units and trying to get it so the horses/men are the same size as they are in those.

It certainly looks like it should match my Golden Warriors. If you want any of the textures from those then let me know. Are you using the same gold colour? I can see you're using the helmet prop I put together - I think I included the gold shade in that, although I don't quite remember. It looks great anyway.

I'm impressed by the reins. I bet they will be a nightmare to animate, but reasonable-looking reins that are visible at civ scale are not easy to find.

One tip: when you come to animate this, rotate the flag on top when you rotate the unit to render the different directions, so it looks like the flag is blowing the same way no matter which way the unit is facing. That way, if several of the units are next to each other in-game, they won't look odd.

 

[Micaelus]

It certainly looks like it should match my Golden Warriors. If you want any of the textures from those then let me know. Are you using the same gold colour? I can see you're using the helmet prop I put together - I think I included the gold shade in that, although I don't quite remember.

You did. This is all the gold coloration you used in that helmet--I think it looks perfect. Thanks for including that there. Did you have other textures from those units that may be useful? If so, of course I'd love to take a look.

One tip: when you come to animate this, rotate the flag on top when you rotate the unit to render the different directions, so it looks like the flag is blowing the same way no matter which way the unit is facing. That way, if several of the units are next to each other in-game, they won't look odd.

I definitely would not have thought of that! Thanks!

 

[Blue Monkey]

I was more meaning that mirroring the symbol may make it non-sensical...or otherwise foolish in the eyes of those who know what it means.

(Though I think it would look quite nice symmetrically placed like that...it's shape is right for the ratha's in that way)

What about using a decorative swastika, since it should look fine being mirrored.

While the swastika is definitely a Hindu symbol, I think it has too many negative associations for those who don't know Hindu culture for it to be appropriate in the context of the game. I actually was thinking of the Arya as mirrored on the other side. That symbol is more obscure, and I think the suggestion of wings it offers as a texture works very well for the ratha mythos - each Hindu god has a "vehicle" which is normally called a vahana ("mount") but is also referred to as a ratha. Krishna (Arjuna's charioteer in the Kurukshetra War) has Garuda (an anthropomorphised eagle) for his vehicle.

I trust your judgment as to the size of the ratha. My only suggestion is to compare it to elephant units, since there will be many of those used in any scenario involving classical India. And I know you will get better advice than I can give as far as lighting the riders.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

Any news on this unit....?

 

[Blue Monkey]

That would be a welcome surprise.

 

[Takhisis]

Need someone to make a I can try doing one in Blender, but just the chariot and maybe the weapons. I'm not good at animals.
No harm in trying...

 

[Blue Monkey]

Sorry for the delay in reply - A month of course work (including a final project) compressed into 2 class sessions. I've been invited to start an internship (and accepted) in my instructor's company. As part of the internship I'll be learning Blender & using it to make models for games.

A completed ratha would be great. I'll be transferring what I'm learning about animation to Blender, so adding the "organic" models and doing the animation should be a good side project.

If you need a summary of the requested design - at the moment spread over several posts - let me know.

 

[Takhisis]

Sorry for the delay in reply - A month of course work (including a final project) compressed into 2 class sessions. I've been invited to start an internship (and accepted) in my instructor's company. As part of the internship I'll be learning Blender & using it to make models for games.

Well, you'll obviously beat me when you finish that course, I just learn by trial and error, whenever I can get some free time. I'm good at moedelling but not at sculpting, and my textures are not very good (I just use Wood Workshop or the Blender Material Repository for what I need.
Do you know how to make fire and/or smoke? I'm just getting started on particle systems.
Sometime i'll learn how to animate and script. I more or less know how to use armatures but it's still a lot of guesswork to me.

A completed ratha would be great. I'll be transferring what I'm learning about animation to Blender, so adding the "organic" models and doing the animation should be a good side project.

If you need a summary of the requested design - at the moment spread over several posts - let me know.

Yes, please. As specific as you can be. I'm good at making wheels, axles, etc. (I made a train just for the fun of it) so it can't be that difficult. Well, yes, it can, but you know what I mean. I'm still trying to figure out where to place the camera so that I can render my blasted catapult.
Gimme any and all details you can think of.

 

[Blue Monkey]

I'm good at moedelling but not at sculpting

so far I think my only strength is animation - modelling gets frustrating really quickly.

Do you know how to make fire and/or smoke?

That's one of the things I'm going to bug my instructor to teach me on the side.

As specific as you can be. I'm good at making wheels, axles, etc. ... Gimme any and all details you can think of.

I don't think I can get to it until Wednesday. The new creations announcement is badly overdue.

 

[Takhisis]

so far I think my only strength is animation - modelling gets frustrating really quickly.

Really? It's exactly the other way around to me.

That's one of the things I'm going to bug my instructor to teach me on the side.

Seconded! I'll bug him too.

I don't think I can get to it until Wednesday. The new creations announcement is badly overdue.

Wednesday starts in about 1 hour down here...
COUNTDOWN BEGINS...
Fifty-nine minutes and fifty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and forty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and thirty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and twenty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and ten seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-eight minutes and fifty seconds (or thereabouts)...

 

[Blue Monkey]

Wednesday starts in about 1 hour down here...
COUNTDOWN BEGINS...
Fifty-nine minutes and fifty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and forty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and thirty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and twenty seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes and ten seconds (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-nine minutes (or thereabouts)...
Fifty-eight minutes and fifty seconds (or thereabouts)...

Unfortunately for you, I was thinking today was Monday.* So don't expect anything before Thursday. In the mean time skim the thread for posts with pictures & my comments on them.

* I made up for it by a moment of panic thinking tomorrow was going to be Thursday.

 

[Takhisis]

Tomorrow isgoing to be a thursday

 

[Madeira]

No its friday!

 

[Virote_Considon]

But it's Wednesday today, so it can't be Friday tomorrow!

Can it?