RB19 - True Cultural Challenge

Now the Big Three themselves. First Mecca, the oldest and sturdiest pillar of Arabia:



Medina, the city with the food resources!



And Damascus, the red dot city that could:



Now some shots of Hamburg, the other star city of this game, courtesy of the debug tools:



We had over 60,000 culture on that tile, and Bismarck had only 15,000. But there was never a revolt... riiiiight. :rolleyes: And inside the city:



We can control 19 of the 21 tiles within the radius of this city, yet it never flipped or revolted. Bismarck had 26 units inside to suppress the revolt odds, which never rose to even 1%. Apparently it is absolutely impossible to flip enemy core cities in Civ4 (new colonies are flippable, but nothing built up). You can bet that I'll be directing some eyes at Firaxis towards this game's thread! (No clue if anything will happen as a result, of course.)



And one of the coolest screenshots I've ever taken, showing all three cities hitting Legendary Culture the same turn. Great stuff. :cool:

One interesting thing to come out of this game is that the cultural victory condition is a bit better balanced that I believed. Everyone thinks that winning a cultural victory is all about building cottages and running 100% culture tax, but as we proved in this game, that's merely ONE way to go about doing things. There are actually three major ways to produce culture in this game:

1) Via commerce (and the culture tax)
2) Via food (by using Artist specialists and Great People)
3) Via shields (through wonders and city improvements)

Most cultural victories go heavy on #1 and #2, but we emphasized #2 and #3 and got a VERY competitive overall result. Pre-1900 cultural victories are pretty rare. It's just a shame that route #1 requires the least planning and the simplest execution. I think the cultural victory condition could be vastly improved if we just put in some kind of a cap on culture that could be achieved via the culture tax (say, 50 culture/turn or something). Then you would actually have to build culture with wonders or Artists, instead of just spamming cottages. That would be an awkward kludge, but something like that would probably improve the gameplay. THIS is how a cultural victory is supposed to look!

I want to thank all of our team members here, it was a true group effort. :goodjob: The ending was anti-climactic, but that was a good thing, right? ;) This how a succession game should be run, with prompt playing and great input from all the members. Hopefully I'll have the chance to meet up with all of you again down the road. But for my next succession game, I have something a bit different in mind. Stay tuned...

Here the save from the last turn for everyone:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/RB19-AD-1892.Civ4SavedGame
 
Well done and very cool! :goodjob:

I could not ask for a better or more enjoyable first-for-me succession game. Lots of great info and gameplay examples in this thread. My games are significantly improved because of the attention payed by all to this game. The strategies, ideas, discussion, and constructive criticism have been top notch. Many lurkers also contributed useful information too. Great SG premise, Sullla. And well executed.

:worship: Sullla, Blake, Qwack, Garath: It's been an honor and a pleasure! :worship:
 
Wow, great game guys. It was fun watching you guys play. I know I'll always learn something. Shame you didn't get Hamburg, though (but you still played a very strong game).
 
Compromise said:
I could not ask for a better or more enjoyable first-for-me succession game. Lots of great info and gameplay examples in this thread. My games are significantly improved because of the attention payed by all to this game. The strategies, ideas, discussion, and constructive criticism have been top notch. Many lurkers also contributed useful information too. Great SG premise, Sullla. And well executed.

Something <self censored> about a pleasant first time :mischief:

Guys, you did a great job. It was fun to read and, as always, a very straight forward lead to victory from veteran Sulla!
 
Congrats to a really great game and a perfect ending :goodjob:

Sullla said:
There are actually three major ways to produce culture in this game:

1) Via commerce (and the culture tax)
2) Via food (by using Artist specialists and Great People)
3) Via shields (through wonders and city improvements)

Most cultural victories go heavy on #1 and #2, but we emphasized #2 and #3 and got a VERY competitive overall result. Pre-1900 cultural victories are pretty rare. It's just a shame that route #1 requires the least planning and the simplest execution. I think the cultural victory condition could be vastly improved if we just put in some kind of a cap on culture that could be achieved via the culture tax (say, 50 culture/turn or something). Then you would actually have to build culture with wonders or Artists, instead of just spamming cottages. That would be an awkward kludge, but something like that would probably improve the gameplay. THIS is how a cultural victory is supposed to look!

Absolutly agree here. This is how a cultural victory should happen and not with simple using the cult-tax. This game is really a showcase how to get a culture victory despite an early AI-attack and Toku stealing some wonders.

It also shows great Diplomacy all AI at least pleased and Toku even friendly and offering a Defensive pact :crazyeye: . You sure you didn't have random personality on? :D


Thanks to you and the team for this entertaining and educating game :)
 
Thanks for this game, I sure learned a few tricks while reading this thread. It's a cool thing to see that the game actually allows for such a victory, if only to show that cottage-spamming is not the one and only way to go. That's another 10 points for Civ IV on my personnal games ranking :D
 
Heh, the cultural victory movie is pretty cool :D. It was good fun and we definitely won much earlier than I expected - at the start of the game I was rather expecting to see the turns-remaining countdown before victory...

Looking at the full map, I can guess how Tokugawa pulled off the wonder grabs. It's something I've seen before. Tokugawa has little expansion priority - or anything priority really. He had half as many cities as the other major players. The low expansion priority or being boxed in gave Tokugawa plenty of free time to pursue wonders - he didn't have anything else to invest in (like say, settlers). It's almost paradoxical that an "unmotivated" AI like Tokugawa often engages in the great projects but it does make sense - AI's always have to be building SOMETHING...
 
Thanks for the game, guys. It's been good. :)

I shall definitely look to hook back up with you guys again in future games, though I doubt I'll be joining, or indeed starting, any more SGs until I actually have a computer in my house that can play CIV again. It'll give me plenty of time to think of something even more ridiculous than RB15 for my next SG, anyway :)eek:), and I expect whatever Sullla's being mysterious about will be well worth watching in the meantime :D

Garath
 
Thanks for gifting this jewel to the lurker audience. It was as brilliant as could be expected by such a talented and promising group of players. The game had the ending it truly deserved. Thanks for an enjoyable and most entertaining read with a lot of care and insight from the whole group.

·Imhotep·
 
Great game guys, couldn't have done it better myself .... no really!!! :)
 
Sullla said:
AND having both prerequisites will drop the price
Is this some kind of :smoke: ?
I just tested this in a game and the costs stay the same.

Also academies don't don't double their culture after 1000 years.
(Lurker reminder : page 4)
 
Is this some kind of ?
Requis has explained this and many other things relating to technology costs in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=146163


Just an Example: Lets assume you will need Animal Husbandry, Pottery and Writing, but you dont need any one of them before the other. It will always be better to research Animal Husbandry and Pottery before writing.
 
:goodjob:
Good game guys.
Read through the game and finally found this:eek:
hmmmm...

Sullla said:
Now some shots of Hamburg, the other star city of this game, courtesy of the debug tools:



We had over 60,000 culture on that tile, and Bismarck had only 15,000. But there was never a revolt... riiiiight. :rolleyes: And inside the city:



We can control 19 of the 21 tiles within the radius of this city, yet it never flipped or revolted. Bismarck had 26 units inside to suppress the revolt odds, which never rose to even 1%. Apparently it is absolutely impossible to flip enemy core cities in Civ4 (new colonies are flippable, but nothing built up). You can bet that I'll be directing some eyes at Firaxis towards this game's thread! (No clue if anything will happen as a result, of course.)

This doesn't bode well for the always peace domination game we're playing here.

I've seen cities flip from less, but I guess the number of garrisoned units is the problem. Do any of you have any idea of how many units (or rather how few) there would have to have been in Hamburg for the chances of a revolt to increase to a level in which a flip would have been possible?
(that was a difficult sentence:crazyeye: )
And does the AI deliberately build more units for garrison if its cities are culturally pressured?
 
Munterpipe said:
And does the AI deliberately build more units for garrison if its cities are culturally pressured?

Yes.

Always Peace - that one was not my idea. :lol: The game is not set up to handle it. :crazyeye:


- Sirian
 
Always Peace WAS one of my ideas though. :lol: However, I think the only reason it's in the game is because Soren said it took about 1 minute to program. ;)

Umm... needless to say, the gameplay isn't really designed to handle an Always Peace variant. It's mostly in there as a novelty item. But if you can get some enjoyment out of it, well, that's the only thing that really matters. :D
 
Excellent read and great game.
 
Really top quality gameplay here, every member seemed to have a lot to add and I didn't dread reading anyone's report expecting it to be boring or full of dumb moves. Sulla had better write more, since as soon as I finish reading Epic 5's report I will have read everything on his site. So how about a Warlords walkthrough or editorial?
 
sunrise089 said:
Sulla had better write more, since as soon as I finish reading Epic 5's report I will have read everything on his site. So how about a Warlords walkthrough or editorial?

Well there is an Adventure Nine report posted, and a forthcoming (written but not yet posted) Epic Six report due at the end of the month. Then you can also check out the currently-running RB21 succession game here on these forums too.

I do have, like, an actual job too, ya know? :cool:
 
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