RBC12D - Fall of Rome - Vandals (Demigod)

[akots]

I was thinking about mm during the upcoming GA. The Vandal tribe now has less than 20 cities and no need for further immediate expansion in the town numbers except may be one N of Syracuse. And terrain is mostly improved. Then, infamous Panormus can be used as a worker factory with all these food bonuses and workers may be joined to other cities so that all are size at least 7 up to eight to hold them at 20-30% luxury rate. Most of the cities are productive and those which are not very productive can have courthouses built. The timing for this might be about right or slightly too early, hard to tell. It's a strong commitment to boring mm every turn though it might be possible to pump warlords every 3-4 max 5 turns from each city during GA for total of about 25-35 warlords. This would be a powerful military then! However tempting, sending several warlords to convert occasional Sassanid troops to our marauders may be risky because these new recruits may be unable to return to the homeland back in time for war against Rome. Well, if we'll have RoP with Ostrogoths it may speed up their movement. On the other hand, we don't want to harm Sassanids seriously or let others do so and there are large forces of Anglo-Sax and Frank pillagers coming through our land. They would not plunder our territory while allied with us. But if they make peace to Sassanids, their plans might change. Since these barbarians are always hungry for ale, women, and other valuable belonging regardless of their current ownership, they may turn on our small villagers at any time. And thus dispatching our glorious warriors to remote lands in search for more glory is risky.

 

[Justus II]

Tribal Leader Justus II was summoned to the Great Warlord’s tent, and informed that our previous Great Warlord, Doc Tsomething, was busy leading a new Army in the field, and our glorious Vandal people would need a new leader to oversee their growth and security. After the devious attack of the treacherous Sassinids, we had weathered their initial onslaught, and convinced our neighboring barbarians to destroy them now, before they became a bigger threat. This war, combined with the emergence of new and powerful Warlords, meant these would be exciting times. The people were waiting with enthusiasm for news from the battlefield, as everyone expected that the first victory of our Warlords would mark the beginning of a glorious Golden Age for our people. And unto Justus II fell the task of harnessing all this enthusiasm, and directing the Vandal people to even greater power and glory.

The biggest concerns at the moment were security and diplomacy. Although we had troops in all our towns, many towns were defended only by untrained groups of Raiders, or bands of Pillagers who would much rather be out on the battlefield. Therefore, one of Justus’ first priorities was to order the training of citizens in combat with Spears, to defend the towns and suppress any unrest. On the diplomatic front, he was quite happy with our previous leader for establishing such strong alliances with our neighbors, and maintaining good trade relations with our Roman “civilized” neighbors to the south. Although Justus had an uneasy feeling, that Roman power left unchecked would eventually overwhelm us all, he thought that for now, we should continue our peaceful dealings. In fact, now might be the time to learn even more about their disciplined, effective military! (Before we have to learn it the hard way, on the battlefield).

428AD (IHT) Start with diplomacy, and a round of map-collecting. Then approach the Romes. First we renegotiate our Fur-Wine deal. We trade Fur+4g+9gpt+WM for Wine+Dyes, allowing us to drop lux tax altogether, which was 17gpt. Now I approach W. Rome and buy Military Training for 8gpt. They have Military Strategy, but not Siegecraft. Back to East Rome, and she does have Siegecraft. A 2-fer between the Romes? I buy Siegecraft for 19gpt, then turn to West Rome and trade Siegecraft for Military Strategy and Byzantine Ingenuity (Hospitals, if we get that far) Our other choices were Imperialism (NOT) or Monotheism, but we are barely building temples, so I doubt we would ever build churches. We can already build Coliseums if we need more happiness. I also got Rome’s WM, which was worth 9g per barb (that had money) total map sales net 56g this turn. This should be our LAST set of deals with Rome, hopefully in 20 turns we are ready to go sacking and pillaging!

Now for moves. I do things a little differently, I move our army along the road, load the Warlord enroute, and then kill the Sassy horse, losing 2hp, but am greeted by:

(Note that the Marauder does list the race enslaved from, I pasted the image in the upper right)

OK, now I can MM based on GA production. I do several swaps along the way. After our discussion of Markets vs. Military, I don’t mean to contradict myself, but I do keep Hippo on Market, and swap Syracuse as well. They will each make an extra 10gpt during the GA, and with growth close to that from then on, and can be finished quick, so I build those two. The happiness benefit, though temporary while we have a 3rd lux, is handy also. Zuchabar looks tempting for a market as well, but it was only at 10gpt prior to the GA, so it would not be as big a payoff, and it starts on Heavy Cav, at 14spt that’s 1/5 turns. I did look at several cities for Courthouses as well, and most cities would not benefit much. They either have very little corruption, or are totally corrupt, or are just too small to get much out of it. With the game likely won or lost in the next 50-70 turns, gaining +1spt is break-even at best, and I’d rather have the production now. (Didn’t realize at first that Courthouses were 50 shields). Rusicade is the exception, as it can gain at least 2spt during the GA, and with growth probably still a net gain. Panormus is close, at 50% corruption, but has so much unhappiness we are better off using it as a Migrant/Worker pump for a while. Other swaps: Lilybaeum-Mkt>Pillager, Alesia-Mkt>Spear (MP), Sabratha-CH>Temple, Ammadera-CH>Worker.

I also stop a couple workers from mining near Sabratha, the town is totally corrupt, so I send them to chop a forest and speed the temple. Lux at 0, Science stays at 10% for Sacking in 4 (BTW, I can confirm no 2nd-level techs are tradeable ). Upgrade our lone horse to Heavy Cav, and our lone Catapult to Trebuchet, since we can’t upgrade to Warlords yet. After all that, I am ready to hit enter!

IBT: Several barbs continue moving past, but no Sassies in sight. We get the Military Academy message, and SoG pumps out our second warlord. (I thought about building it in Zuchabbar, which can hit 16spt during the GA, but it would still be 25 turns, longer once the GA ends. Then we might get one army built before turn 120. The Army bonus would be nice, but for the same shields we can build almost 6 Warlords/Hvy Cav, that’s a pretty good bonus! Always available for the next leader, though.) Carthage-Pillager>Pillager, Cirta-Temple>Trebuchet, New Carthage-Raider>Raider. After messing around with Panormus to finish a worker in 1 turn, it riots

430AD (1) The Celts now have sacking, time dropped to 1 turn, even on a lone scientist. I move our army back and load our 2nd Warlord. While doing map trading, I see the price of Sacking has dropped:

I go ahead and take it for the map, switch scientist to tax, and research is done. Upgrade a vet Raider to Warlord. Move workers.
IBT: Aleria-Spear>spear, Panormus-Worker>Migrant, Ammendera-Worker>Temple, New Syracuse-Wall>Temple. Justinian’s Leadership is established in Rome. The Byzantines switch to Hagia Sophia.

432AD (2) Load a third warlord into the Army, giving us 3 Warlords, one Pillager, and 17hp. More worker moves, and MP shuffles.
IBT: Sassinids ask for peace (No!). Syracuse finishes Market, starts a Temple, Syracuse is having happiness issues. I still have to keep an entertainer and a taxman, I notice there is a Sassinid citizen (Must have been one of the merged workers). New Carthage-Raider>Raider.

434AD (3) Worker moves, move vet raiders from New Carthage to be upgraded. Depending on map sales, I tried to upgrade one vet raider-warlord per turn, if we are short of cash, I upgrade a pillager. Some are sent near Panormus, and I start to move some to the south at New Syracuse. I also sell the Franks sacking for 22g+WM, I know it’s not much but almost everyone else already has it, and this turn it helps me complete my upgrade.
IBT: Aleria-Spear>spear.

436AD (4) Time to crack the rushing temples in New Tingis and Hadrumentum.
IBT: The prophecies of Akots were true, we see some Sassinid archers moving out of the fog near Panormus. We complete the Market in our capital, where we can start Warlords. Zuchabar-Heavy Cav>Hcav, Lilybaem-Warlord>Spear, Hadrum-Temple>Trebuchet, New Carthage-Raider>Raider, New Tingis-Temple>Trebuchet.

438AD (5) I move my elite pillagers up to attack his archers next turn. A vet pillager ends up in the forest next to another stack of 4 archers.
IBT: First Archer dies attacking exposed Pillager, causing 1hp. Second archer loses 2hp, but kills our Pillager. We get another Warlord from the SoG, Cartennae-Hcav>Hcav, Aleria-Spear>spear.

440AD (6) I back up to draw his archers into the open, I want to hit with elites.
IBT: More movement, I see an East Roman Hcav near Rusicade? Syracuse-Temple>Spear (with MM I can get to 20spt). Saldea-Worker>spear, Rusicade-Courthouse>Spear, Lilybaeum-spear>spear, Panormus-Migrant>Migrant, New Carthage-Raider>Raider.

442AD (7) Elite pillager kills vet archer, losing 3hp but enslaving a worker. Second elite pillager kills a regular archer.
IBT: Huns make peace with Sassinids, their horses start heading back north in the Cacausus Mountains. Syracuse-Spear>spear, Caglia-Warlord>spear, Aleria-spear>spear, New Hippo-Courthouse>Trebuchet.

444AD (8) Elite pillager kills vet archer, getting another worker. Army kills a wounded regular archer, who becomes a Marauder. Chop chop, several forests are cut to make temples in the west.
IBT: See another archer approach. 3 Roman heavy cav now are moving toward Rusicade??
Syracuse-spear>spear, Saldea-spear>spear, Rusicade-spear>spear, Lyly-spear>spear, Aleria Riots (must have moved an MP), New Carthage-Raider>Raider.

446AD (9) Elite pillager loses 2hp killing an elite archer. New Zuchabar is founded S of Rusicade, maybe if I fill the gap the Roman cav will stop playing polo there. (I move 3-4 defenders in just in case). Also time to whip a temple in Sabratha, after another forest chop comes through.
IBT: Hippo-Warlord>warlord. Syracuse-spear>spear, Caglia-spear>trebuchet, Sabratha-temple>trebuchet, Cirta-Treb>treb, New Hippo-treb>treb. Rome shuffles wonders, restarting St. Peters and Hagia.

448AD (10) Elite pillager enslaves the last visible archer.
IBT: Sass Hcav attacks our sentry near the road way over yonder on the far side of the Black sea, killing him. Syracuse-Spear>spear, Zuchabar-Hcav>spear, (MM for growth for a few turns), Cartenna Warlord>warlord, Saldea-spear>spear, Rusicade-spear>wall (just in case), Lily-spear>spear, Aleria-spear>spear, New Carthage-Raider>Raider.

450AD (11) I have done all worker moves and moved some defenders and MPs around, but most military is fortified and could still be moved, if necessary. I also have not done the map sales. I just wanted to bring us to an even turn number again, so we can keep it on track. Also, this is the turn the alliances end, seemed like a good hand-off point.

Sassinids will give everything they have for peace, which at this point is Imperialism and their WM. Our alliances have run their term, but are still active (except for Huns, who made a separate peace), I think you need to go cancel each first before negotiating the peace. We still have 9 turns remaining on several gpt deals with the two Romes. This should be enough time to shift forces, and be in a position to strike. Our military is growing, in fact we are strong compared to everyone but the two Romes, where we are weak. . . We now have 20 Warlords, 9 Pillagers, 2 Marauders, 20 Raiders, and 21 spear, and 4 Heavy cav and 3 Trebuchets. I’ve been pretty focused on spears during my reign, as we needed to free up the pillagers who were tied up as MPs. I was trying to get 1/city, plus regular Raider (or Marauder) for MP, and then pillagers every so often as a reaction force. We should be about there. Our offensive punch will obviously be the Warlords and Heavy Cav, and our elite pillagers.

A note on map trading, it is tedious, but does pay off, although the profit margin is dropping. The AI civs have some cash (except the Visigoths, and occasionally the Celts are broke). I started by going around and getting the maps from each of the civs, then selling them to the Romans. However, most turns I can’t get their maps straight up, they want some cash, and then I have to buy several, go to Rome and sell them. Roman maps are more expensive, usually costing between 20-40g, and when sold to barbs I only get about 9g each, but from 4-5 civs that adds up. Note that the turn you make peace, the Sassinid map will probably have value, as half the civs haven’t been trading with them.

OK, now for the bad news: West Rome has 17,700 vp, over half-way there, and they haven’t even been in a war yet. I think we need to move our forces south, but keep some mobile forces on the eastern border until those H Cav go away. I don’t know what they are doing, they have even entered our territory, then left, always heading vaguely north. I wonder if there are some barb camps or maybe just the few remaining unexplored tiles that is drawing them.

Otherwise, start massing our Warlords and Trebuchets near New Syracuse, so we can strike when the deals end. If you are ready early, and they continue entering our territory, we could demand they leave, and hope they declare. At that point, sign as many alliances as we can afford. Unfortunately, even though we have the tech lead, it is untradeable, so it will take cash or gpt, make sure to set aside a few turns of GA income before it ends. We probably ought to discuss our course of action. Aquincum is a VP city just south of New Syracuse for W. Rome, and E. Rome has another a little further SE. Other than those, do we push to take as many as possible, or wait for the AI to take some. As slow as they move, however, it may be a while before they get into serious action. Whatever plan we come up with, though, we need to move quickly. We should also build up some migrants for settling VP sites. There is one due in Panormus, which I planned to settle near the game tile NW of New Hippo (giving us our 20th city, so we can form up to 5 armies). But when we attack, we will definitely want to have some available.

Roster:
Justus II – Just played, buildup phase
RubberJello – Up next, troop marshalling (and 2nd half of GA)
Gobi Bear – On Deck, should get to lead our armies into Roman territory!
Akots
Doc Tsiolkovski


Lead us into Rome!

 

[akots]

Great play, the Noble King! It must have been lots of mm all this.

IMHO, Roman cavalry may be dangerous. Hope they are not after Panormus. Another IMHO, but if our military/cash build-up will continue at the same pace through GA, we would not need any alliances to kill the Western Rome. The main point in alliances is to secure our borders from our pesky neighbors. And renewal of the current alliance against evil Sassanids will probably suffice for a couple of turns before our gloroius armies advance to Roman territory. Then, MPP with Eastern Rome would be triggered. And hence comes the military might of Visigoths and Huns to our aid if our wise-men living in their capital cities can persuade them to join plundering of Eastern Rome. However, their generals are not as skilled as ours and may not gain victory by themselves thus leaving most of sacking and pillaging in Eastern Rome to our glorious armies. This plan is extremely risky because the longer our neighbors drag in their war with Sassanids, the more likely they become tired of marching on the roads and would be willing to come back home. The benefits though are great because we will get all the riches of Western Rome for ourselves including the infamous magic item call Justinian's Leadership. If the campain is carefully planned, the Rome itself can be the 8th city to be plundered thus it would be possible to keep this magic wonder intact. After finishing with Western Rome we can make peace with Sassanids and persuade them to join fight against Eastern Rome. That other campain may yield us some more plunder and magical items being currently constructed in Constantinopol.

As a negative aspect of the plan, it should be noted that Roman heavy cavalry are very skilled warriors. If combined in specific military dispatchments called SOD, they can severy impair our troops and even force them to retreat. In this case, alliances with other barbarian tribes would greatly help to distract these powerful and evil war machines from slaughtering our warlords.

I would kindly beg you to discuss this plan just for the sake of curiosity on your opinion.

 

[Gobi Bear]

The Gobi Bear clan has surveyed the map. Picking up after the Rubber-Jello-Vandals and leading the first main charge on the accursed Romans will be the greatest honor!

It is unfortunate that we have lost all scouts out in the world at large. Once war starts, I fear that in the chaos we will have a terrible time tracking forces headed towards our lands and our coalition's progress against the evil Romans. What think you, oh wiser warlords than I? Should we work to position a few scouts out in the world to view important roads and passages? If so, which troops are best? Unfortunately the only mounted men we possess are our powerful Heavy Cavalry that we will want to use for attack.

 

[Rubberjello]

@akots. Point of fact - I am pretty sure that when you capture the 8'th town, the town you have just captured plus every other town in that civilization falls to ruin. At least, that is the way it works in Regicide games. If we want to capture a Wonder intact, it would have to be the 7'th town, and we had better pray it doesn't flip until the 8'th town is captured.
Got it.

 

[Justus II]

@Akots-A bold, audacious, I like that, although I still think we want to bring in our Western neighbors. They can take out far-away Roman cities, and absorb some Heavy Cav, while we go for the heart. After the VP city to our south Agedicum, we would push our main forces down Italy, taking Ravenna, and position around Rome. It is critical that our armies be followed by many camp followers (Migrants) as other than Rome, we will want to raze and rebuild on the VP cities, and also need to be ready to rush to settle southern Italy once they are eliminated. Then we can turn to finish off East Rome. I wouldn't buy in the Sassinids any sooner than we have to, or the Huns for that matter. Wait on them until we are ready to turn east ourselves. (And yes, there was a lot of MMing!).

@Gobi-We have one raider left on the Ostro-Hun border, but the others are gone. We do have about a dozen regular raiders serving as MPs, we could continue to crank out spears to replace them, and send them out, they are pretty expendable. I would also recommend sending advance guards of 2-3 heavy cav ASAP toward both East and West Rome, to screen for troop movements. When war does break out, they could pull back along the roads, or fortify on a mountain, where they could hold out until the main body arrives.

@Rubber-I'm no expert, as this is my first Elimination game. But I just watched my 10-year old son (Learning, getting ready for the jump to Regent!) playing a 1-city elimination, and both times he was able to keep the city he captured, while the rest of the empire disintegrates. I believe it is because you capture the town, THEN elimination kicks in (because it calculates resistors, etc). Whereas with Regicide, when you kill the King.(even if it's the last unit in the city) the Regicide kicks in before it processes the Capture/Raze city dialog.

As for taking Rome, even if we take it as the 6th-7th city, we just minimally garrison it, and keep some Warlords parked outside. If it flips, we can retake it and it counts as another city being eliminated. It also shouldn't be hard to arrange to take 2 cities that turn, so we could make it #7 and take #8 the same turn.

General comment: I do like the idea, but keep it in perspective, Justinians is not as important as making sure we get the 8th city, and can settle the VP sites, so if it comes down to a tactical decision, keep that in mind. It's nice, but we have barracks already in most cities, the Heroic Epic aspect is our only real benefit. Still, if we can get it, why not go for it!

 

[akots]

Originally posted by Rubberjello
... when you capture the 8'th town, the town you have just captured plus every other town in that civilization falls to ruin. ...

Cetainly I must agree with Noble Justus II and disagree with you, My Lord. The 8th town is captured, you enter the city screen, then exit it, then computer thinks for a while and all remaining cities are raised. Then the player gets the message that that partuclar civilization is eliminated. Cultural flip is a chance only and it might be better to keep some cities which have infrastructure and 1-2 Roman citizens. We can survey a city first, see to all its reaches being plundered and then abandon it if we don't like. Of note is the high corruption in the Empire at its present poorly-ruled state. Therefor, the closer we come to Rome herself, the more resistance we encounter. Whereas other barbarian tribes attacking more distant cities (especially Celts) will not have such problem and will be facing rather few troops indeed. Advancing to Northern Italy gets us more VP locations though. And command our troops to beseige the Rome would be a heroic decision indeed. I'm sure they have a plently of legions in there (less than 20 I hope).

 

[Rubberjello]

Apologies for the brevity of the write-up, but I'm finding weekends are actually worse for me time-wise for these SG turns.

450 (0) Go around and cancel MAs against the Sassies with all of our allies. We thank them for their support, and warn that we'll be needing their help real soon! Make peace with the Sassies for Imperialism and WM (they are flat broke. Trade maps around for +40 gold.

452 (1) Maps go for small potatoes this round. I start saving all our money for buying in alliances. I would like to attack Rome soon, but it sure would be nice if they attacked the Franks or Anglos first. Roman Cav heads off into the vast forests barb-hunting.

454 (2) Byzantines finish St. Peter's Basilica. Most of our former allies have made peace with the Sassies by now.

456 (3) Western Rome starts the Hagia Sophia. Everybody is heading out to the boondocks to capture a few, pitiful barb camps! This just sucks. Why doesn't Rome tear into the Franks or the Anglos?

458 (4) In terms of builds, still continuing Spears, Warlords, and Trebs.

460 (5) I'm really begrudging the time we are losing here. We may regret it by the end of the game, or when we compare scores with the other teams. But the will of the council seems to be "wait", so we wait.

462 (6) And more waiting... (trading maps every turn also) The entire world is at peace.

464 (7) Hmmm....3 Legions that were heading off to Siberia suddenly move next to one of our cities.

466 (8) After adding more defense to the city, the Romans turn away. I can't take this anymore. They are still in our territory, and when I ask them to leave, and ...

Franks come in a MA against the Romans for WM+200g+5gpt.
Anglo-Saxons come in a MA against the Romans for WM+295+10gpt (They will probably lose some cities to them)
Visigoths come in a MA against the Romans for WM+130g+7gpt.
The Huns, Ostrogoths, and Celts cost way to much to bring them in (Our Golden Age ends soon, and we could end up in a hole)
Against the three Legions: We kill one. We kill the next and get both a Marauder and an elite promotion (Warlord). We lose one warlord against the last , but a heavy cav finishes him off. Two stacks attack towards the Roman cities of Aquincum and Vindobona.

468 (9) Eastern Rome declares war on us and our allies. We lose our two luxes. Lux tax raised to 20%. Stack approaches Vindobona.
Aquincum is defended by 11 Legions and 1 archer! We only lose 2 Warlords, and gain 4 promotions and 3 Marauders. Raze the city and found New Cartennae the very same turn.

470 (10) Our Golden Age ends. No Roman activity, but our allies seriously weaken Vindobona for us. 2 Warlord (promotion to Elite) attacks later, it is Razed also. New Saldae is founded next to it to consolidate the gains.
Meanwhile, an Elite Warlord attacks a Legion and Hunneric joins our cause! He starts a Warlord army in the nearby town (partially filled - waiting for the *Elite unit to join it.)

We still have forces near Panormus because some Roman Heavy Cavs disappeared into the forest up there a few turns back. We have 31 Spears. 8 Heavy Cavs, 32 Warlords, 8 Trebs, and 9 Pillagers. I signed an ROP with the Vizigoths so that we can use their roads to get to Italy better. Most of our forces are on those roads right now. If you think we can afford it, the next leader should buy in the Huns and Ostrogoths against Rome.



Two down - six to go in the West

 

[Justus II]

A very auspicous start to our campaign, Rubberjello! I'm glad you were able to bring the migrants to refound cities, and the second army will be a big help. As we move further south, we may want to shift production for more Heavy Cavs, just to keep our momentum going.

I looked at the save, the Ostros could be bought in for 16gpt, the Huns cost double that. But the Sassinids will join for Byzantine Ingneuity (no out of pocket cost for us!). I say that is definitely worth it, to occupy the East (buy them in vs. the east initially, so the Sassinids may get a first strike). We might hold off a few turns on the Ostros until we are ready to turn East ourselves, or at least close, we don't want to give them too much of a head start. At the least, if we do buy the Ostros in, we need to send some forces to grab a couple of Eastern VP cities in the Balkans/Greece before they get them. I think getting our GA production and attacking with a horde of warlords will make up for the turns we lost, we should be able to maintain momentum all the way to Rome!

 

[akots]

Yaaa! Very good indeed with the timing! Turn 18 or the GA is about right. These newly recruited reinforcements will come to battlefield exactly when they are needed. At present we have cities enough for 4 or 5 armies only. May be, build some more cities in locations already secured by our troops? Number of armies can be amazingly high in this game. Or use one leader to rush Military Academy sometwhere? And armies are the best foolproof tools to kill these numerous legion defenders in cities. Major concern is that our forces have to move fast from city to city. May be one heavy cavalry army is also useful to fight off counterattacks of especially dangerous heavy cavalry from Eastern Rome. This is their main fighting unit IMHO. With this army having movement 3 and using the roads in Visigoth area, such counterstrikes can be very efficient.

Would I have a chance to play my turns or game will be finished with GB ...

 

[Gobi Bear]

I have the file, and will take a serious look at a bit later today.

Congrats, RJ, I look forward to pressing the attack on in to the core of the Roman empire! All the suggestions are great; the deal to bring the Sassanids in against Eastern Rome is a no-brainer.

 

[Gobi Bear]

Inherited Turn, 470 AD: I go ahead and seal the deal with the Sassanids. Military Alliance against Western Rome for Byzantine Ingenuity. They must be desperate to send some Dromons back against Theodora. Give her a taste of her own Greek medicine! Historically the Vandals had a great navy that helped bring down Western Rome; not sure we're going to get much of a chance to build Dromons ourselves. Note that the Sassanids would have shipped us Monotheism in return, but I decline and give them the sweeter deal. I don't see any significant benefit to building Churches. I proceed with the turn; all of the builds look sensible to me.

IBT: A big bonus! The Anglo-Saxons pulled the Celts in to the military alliance for us. Eastern Rome fulfills their duties and declares on the Celts. Man there are a lot of Anglo-Saxons in our territory! Haven't these guys gotten the memo that they are supposed to be taking over England? Fighting east of New Syracuse. A Western Roman legionary takes out a wounded Anglo-Saxon pillager, but is red-lined. Our elite unit (Hunneric's Howlers) is next door. Ha-ha! I also see some of the Roman heavy cavalry that Rubberjello mentioned in the woods near Panormus. I'll hit them this turn.

472 AD: Panormus: Migrant->Spearman. Start out with the Heavy Cavalry escorting our lead army doing some scouting. Find a wounded Roman heavy cavalry next to the Frankish outpost of Grenoble. Seems safe enough ... the army follows. We're on the borders of Roman Italy!

I assign two enslaved Roman Marauders to scout the main roads from Constantinople for us. The ROP with the Visigoths helps here. I want to know when those sneaky Byzantines are headed our way! Making about 20 gold from maps, but the Huns and Ostrogoths need about 35gpt to join the alliance. I'll hold off for now.

IBT: Attila visits to swap Territory Maps. Swell guy, glad he could drop by. The Roman Heavy Cavalry attacks Grenoble with 1 HP; ends up retreating. We'll take care of him this turn.

474 AD: New Carthage: Raider->Spearman. Need Spears to hold our new cities as we advance. Quiet turn. Enter Roman territory, dispatch that HC. Nothing coming from Byzantium yet. Just lots of troop movement south.

IBT: Just the usual Anglo-Saxon migrations back-and-forth across our lands. Whatever you do, don't anger them!

476 AD: Zucchabar: HC->HC. Sending this HC to the west to keep an eye on the Roman outposts in Gaul. War is taking a while to heat up. Western Rome still the only one with two cities lost.

IBT: 3 Roman Heavy Cavalry reappear near Rusicade. Luckily I've retained all the troops in that area thanks to RJ's advice.

478 AD: Rusicade: Warlord->Spear. Cagliari: Warlord->HC. New Hippi Regius: Migrant->Spearman. New Zucchabar: Treb->Treb. The attack on Aquileia begins:
1) Kill legion, Warlord in army promotes to elite. Army still at 18/19 strength.
2) HC attacks, red lines a legion without taking damage, then proceeds to lose battle.
3) Lose another HC after red lining a legion.
Move up rest of troops so can attack next turn with overwhelming odds. Seen enough losses.

Battle back at Panormus: kill 1 HC enslaving to create a Marauder. Kill off second HC with Elite Pillager (no promotion). Drive off the 3rd with a Warlord.

I get one more Ally for us. The cost of an Ostrogoth alliance against the Byzantine was down to 205gold + 9gpt. Signing up the Huns would have been 16gpt more. We are paying 32gpt total right now. All of us Barbarians against Rome now, with the Huns on the sideline. Attila is probably waiting for us all to destroy ourselves before he sweeps in! Finally, arrange for ROP with the Franks. I want our HC scout to the west to be able to move through their lands.

IBT: Our Marauder scout got a bit too far into Byzantine lands. Two HC came out to finish him off. We'll send a Spearman down there and not press quite as far.

480 AD: Hippo Regius: Warlord->HC. I'm worried that Warlords built now won't make it to the front before the action in Italy is over.
Someone else took down a Western Roman city! There are up to 3 lost now.

The attack on Aquileia continues:
1) Kill legion, Warlord in army promotes to elite. Bad news is First Army now done to 12/19 strength. That legion was tough.
2) HC attacks, kills a regular legion but redlines. I'll pull him out of the lines.
3) HC attacks, kills a regular legion without a HP loss.
Only 1 more HC within range this turn ¡K these foothills inside Roman territory are slowing everyone down. Next turn we'll have a lot more forces. I'll try and finish it off then. At least we killed 3 legions this turn without losing any units.

Have a bunch of workers cutting a shorter road to Italy.

482 AD: Syracuse: HC->HC. Panormus riots Switch production to a migrant and I am boosting the luxury slider to 30%. Zucchabar also may riot when it grows next; I think we have enough gold and allies to afford this now. New Carthage: Spearman->Raider. Rename New Cartennae to "Anti Byzantine War Camp". I'm sending most new builds there assuming the forces I've sent to Italy already will take out Western Rome.

Army #2 launces this turn's attack on Aquileia (Trebuchets still one turn from being in range):
1) Army #2 takes out two legions, but down to 12/17 strength.
2) HC takes 1 loss knocking out another legion.
3) HC takes 2 losses knocking out last legion. Only garrisons now!
4) Army #1 goes in for the kill against the Roman Garrison and...

We found Vandal Aquileia on the site of the former Roman city. Our first VP location!

Trebuchets and Warlords move in to secure the site. We scout toward Milan and Ravenna. I think I will try to take out Ravenna first. That will poise us to strike at both Rome and Milan to finish off Western Rome. We might need to have several sites available for quick sacking if the city elimination count nears 8. Taking Ravenna first gives us more options.

Ah-ha! Found the other Roman city that has fallen; Augusta Vindalucum is now Anglo-Saxon.

I believe the Franks have lost a city too. There is rubble north of the English Channel at about the location of modern Portsmouth. Didn't the Franks have a city there?

Not getting more than 1 gold for each map trade. But still going through with them regularly.

IBT: 1 Roman Heavy Cavalry counterattacks our lead HC outside Milan. Kills us. Another appears out of the fog. They aren't going to give us Italy without a fight.

484 AD: Lilybaeum: HC->HC. Order restored in Panormus. They like the extra luxury %. Finally get to use the Trebuchets against the Roman HC near Milan. Great fun! Get a new Elite Warlord killing it. Our armies rest in the bucolic countryside outside Vandal Aquileia.

IBT: Danger, Will Robinson! Franks and Anglo-Saxons both sign peace treaties with Rome! Franks then march a bunch of troops into the SW corner of our lands. Anglo-Saxons are all over the place. I've seen these peaces as precursors to declarations against us. If that happens here we can be in a pickle in a hurry. Legions march out of Ravenna to counterattack our lead units. Luckily I left a Pillager out front and all we lose is one of them (taking a Legion with him).

486 AD: Cartennae: HC->HC. Aleria: Warlord->Warlord (may need some troops close to home after all). Panormus: Migrant->Migrant. New Carthage: Raider->Raider. Rome completes the Hagia Sophia. All the wonders are now built. They just got doubled churches and 1 less unhappy person across the map. Funny, the Romans and Byzantines switched churches from the historical result.

OK, I can get the Anglo-Saxons back on our side for a deal that is all our cash plus 15gpt. This is a necessity. Franks are even cheaper. We have to keep the pressure on and not let these guys get paid off by the Romans.

Wait a minute ... here is the biggest news ... Western Rome has lost 6 cities now. Big decision guys. I'll post a screen and the save and we can discuss. I'm willing to pass to the next player (or continue), but either way we need to discuss what to do RIGHT NOW!

The save:
486AD

 

[Gobi Bear]

As I see it our choices are:
1) Try to go after both Milan and Ravenna and take them in 1 or 2 turns. Look it over, but I am expecting 6 to 10 legions in each city. I know we can take either one in 488 AD, but can we take both by then?

2) Wait until another power takes city #7 ... and then we knock out Ravenna. It will work, but the risk of other powers taking out two cities in a single turn is pretty high.

And the further question is ... do we renew the Anglo-Saxon and Frank alliances or not? Not renewing them means we can be much more likely to get city #8. But will the Romans turn them right around against us? I think the Anglo-Saxon alliance is a must. There are just too many of their troops in our homeland.

 

[Justus II]

@Gobi, I just downloaded the save, and will take a look. Definitely a tough call, hopefully the other Council members can offer some insight as well.

 

[Justus II]

Well, looking at the situation, you're right, it should be easy to take one in 488, but not both. In fact, whichever one we take first, it will probably be at least 492 before we could take a second, due to cultural borders (both cities have expanded to radius 3). I would mass forces and wait to take Milan as the eighth city, and position some troops to block anyone else from getting to Ravenna and points south. We can get alliances renewed with both Franks and Anglos for pure gpt, which is fine, because we should get that back when West Rome falls (make sure to ally them vs. West Rome, it looks like the alliance is specific to which half). That will still provoke East Rome to redeclare on them. Our military is considered strong compared to everyone except East Rome, and West Rome is broke, so there should be little chance of him turning them against us. By renewing, it should also keep him from talking to them for a few turns. Be ready to hit Milan next turn, but it may take a couple turns before they take another city, as if they made peace last turn, they probably have moved forces back from Roman cities, and would take another turn or 2 to get in attack position. I think the Celts are our most likely prospect to take #7, as Rome is pretty weak in the islands.

EDIT: I would position some follow-on forces (the Trebs and the stack of Warlords on the road) toward Ravenna, in case the other barbs don't get #7 quick enough, by 492 we might be able to hit them both at once. Also, I noticed something weird. Visigoths are at peace with E. Rome (and even have an ROP) but at war with W. Rome. I can only assume that East Rome made peace with them last turn, but after W. Rome's turn? Or does it mean E. Rome will redeclare? I'm not sure how that is treated, but it shouldn't be possible to stay in a split state like that for long.

 

[akots]

What is happening is exactly what has been anticipated by your humble servant, My Lords. Except fighting legions with our heavy cavalry and their heavy cavalry with our warlords. In the current situation, is it possible to declare war to Hunns and make alliance with Franks, and Anglo-Sax? And Visigoth must stay allied to us against East Rome, apparently.

 

[Gobi Bear]

@akots: You want to declare war on Attilla? For what reason?

@Justus: If you think the Romans won't turn the Franks against us (I was thinking they might be able to do it with tech, but perhaps the Franks are done researching too), then my preferred course of action is to re-ally with the Anglo-Saxons but to leave the Franks out of it. Our cavalry scout to the west (who saw city #4 fall into Anglo-Saxon hands) has seen both Frank and A-S stacks of warlords moving on the Roman cities in Gaul recently. I'd like to keep the Franks out of it to slow the pace that Western Rome falls.

 

[Justus II]

@Gobi, sounds good. We aren't able to trade any 2nd level techs to the Franks, so I assume Rome can't either. (I assumed this was due to the "flavor" settings which limit AI choices, but a Human barbarian can obviously override, but I'm not really sure how that works. After all what do I know, I'm not a designer? )
The only tech the Romans have that we don't is Monotheism, so I doubt they can trade that.

Also not sure about the Visigoth thing, hopefully that will resolve itself next turn.

@Akots: I also don't understand why you want to declare on the Huns, did you mean to ally with them vs. East Rome? I don't think we're ready for that yet, I would want to wait until we are in a position to grab several of their cities ourselves.

 

[Rubberjello]

I agree with waiting and trying to get both cities in (hopefully) 492. I agree we could leave the Franks out of it. West Rome is gassed both militarily and financially.

 

[Gobi Bear]

OK. I think Justus, RJ and I are in agreement. I'll have to look at it again, but I think it might be possible to be poised to strike both cities in 490. I have a handful of migrants with that initial strike force and I am thinking about planting a city right there in Italy as a tactical move to speed the troop deployments.

Shall I go ahead and finish out the 10 turns, or should we let akots pick this up? Have I had too much of the fun already?

I can get to it this evening (in about 10 hours), but not before. Still at work and have to celebrate my birthday a bit with the family.