RBC13A - Middle Ages - Byzantium, Sid
- Thread starter T-hawk
- Start date
T-hawk
Transcend
In a word, wow. "If I don't make peace with Sweden NOW, they will destroy us next turn." On the edge of oblivion, indeed. Awesome job in getting us back from that, at least for the moment.
Funny how things can work out - I'd expected the Sid game to see us trailing in tech but having a broad production base with this many cities to keep up with our rivals. And I never thought *Viking* raids would put us on the edge of extinction!
I *hate* fighting an omniscient foe with nearly infinite movement.
Indeed... this must be how the AIs feel against artillery stacks and cavalry armies, in the standard game. 'Tis painful indeed. If we still pull this one out - and we're not dead yet - it'll be one for the ages...
I didn't sign any alliances on my turn, so we're still clean on that regard. However, now might be the time to sign up absolutely anyone against the two Viking civs that we can afford, and to heck with our rep if we need to renege to save our own skins. We've GOT to get some distraction for those longboats.
A steal from the Kievan Rus of Heavy Cavalry *might* twofer us Religious Persecution and/or Divine Right, which would be handy. Both Abassids and Turks can use the Heavy Cavalry tech.
Are you sure about that? I don't think so. Observation in other games is that you can never trade a tech to an AI that has a flavor other than that AI's. The Abassids and Turks don't have the Byzantine flavor, either, so they can't even get on the Byzantine tree in the first place...?
Arathorn << awesome hangin'-in-there
Jabah << UP NOW
Charis << On Deck
Funny how things can work out - I'd expected the Sid game to see us trailing in tech but having a broad production base with this many cities to keep up with our rivals. And I never thought *Viking* raids would put us on the edge of extinction!
I *hate* fighting an omniscient foe with nearly infinite movement.
Indeed... this must be how the AIs feel against artillery stacks and cavalry armies, in the standard game. 'Tis painful indeed. If we still pull this one out - and we're not dead yet - it'll be one for the ages...
I didn't sign any alliances on my turn, so we're still clean on that regard. However, now might be the time to sign up absolutely anyone against the two Viking civs that we can afford, and to heck with our rep if we need to renege to save our own skins. We've GOT to get some distraction for those longboats.
A steal from the Kievan Rus of Heavy Cavalry *might* twofer us Religious Persecution and/or Divine Right, which would be handy. Both Abassids and Turks can use the Heavy Cavalry tech.
Are you sure about that? I don't think so. Observation in other games is that you can never trade a tech to an AI that has a flavor other than that AI's. The Abassids and Turks don't have the Byzantine flavor, either, so they can't even get on the Byzantine tree in the first place...?
Arathorn << awesome hangin'-in-there
Jabah << UP NOW
Charis << On Deck
ME: A steal from the Kievan Rus of Heavy Cavalry *might* twofer us Religious Persecution and/or Divine Right, which would be handy. Both Abassids and Turks can use the Heavy Cavalry tech.
T:hawk: Are you sure about that? I don't think so.
Me again: No. I'm wrong. Not sure why I thought Heavy Cavalry was an Arab tech when it is so clearly in the Byzantine tech tree. Ignore that comment. HCav is not 2fer-able.
------------------------------------------
Yes. One king was out of movement in a city defended by a pike, a 'pult and an injured assassin, next to 5 berzerks. Other was trapped alone in Nicea (Theo, the 0/0 unit) with spears on both sides (nowhere to run) and a sword in one of those squares. It was literally peace-or-die (although the AI could've screwed it up, I didn't want to count on it).
Arathorn
T:hawk: Are you sure about that? I don't think so.
Me again: No. I'm wrong. Not sure why I thought Heavy Cavalry was an Arab tech when it is so clearly in the Byzantine tech tree. Ignore that comment. HCav is not 2fer-able.
------------------------------------------
Yes. One king was out of movement in a city defended by a pike, a 'pult and an injured assassin, next to 5 berzerks. Other was trapped alone in Nicea (Theo, the 0/0 unit) with spears on both sides (nowhere to run) and a sword in one of those squares. It was literally peace-or-die (although the AI could've screwed it up, I didn't want to count on it).
Arathorn
Jabah
Emperor
Got it ...
Not sure how long we would last from what I read ....
Should be able to play tomorow (saturday) but it might be long ...
Jabah
Not sure how long we would last from what I read ....
Should be able to play tomorow (saturday) but it might be long ...
Jabah
Charis
Realms Beyond
Wowza! Talk about things going South!
I tell you though, I'm really *kicking myself*. Way back when it
was just us and Turks vs the Abbasids, and we had just captured a city, they were willing to pay for peace, and the land was just starting to get overrun by assassins, I realized quite strongly the time for peace was now.
The only problem was... we were in an alliance with the Turks. We "only" had to last what, 7 turns, until we could end it, but really, my "spidey sense" was tingling something awful. They had a stack we could not stop about 2 turns away from the SW city (New Jerusalem) and we had absolutely nothing to gain from continuing.
I thought about it quite a bit actually, and in a solo game, I probably would have canceled the treaty early and taken peace. Our rep was (iirc???) no longer perfect due to the goofiness of the rep rules, and there wasn't much to lose by taking peace right then. I basically didn't want to let others down with a 'phony peace' exploit. It wasn't this - as that exploit is when you make a treaty you have no expectation of keeping, or when you get hard cash or tech out of it then cancel the treaty. But it looked dishonorable enough that I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on it.
Hindsight is 20/20, but this isn't a case of looking back and seeing something I could have done to prevent it, I'm talking about staring at the screen 15 mins debating back then whether to take a peace or not. So I am curious if such 'treachery' to our turkish 'allies' would have been something my teammates would have been distraught to see, or would it have been a 'sensible move' at the time. Ironically, this is almost like Rice and Rumsfield. If I *had* made that choice unilaterally, no one would EVER have known just how AWFUL things got due to the monstrous snowball effect. One thing is for sure, with the economies as they are on Sid, you can expect not just to be allied against but to be outright dogpiled, and don't stay in a war any longer than you absolutely have to in order to meet a known objective.
What's worse... two turns before I had this big debate whether to take peace or not, I clicked in the box on the right unintentionall ending my turn and the game started going on to the AI's turn. I had definitely not finished, nor even MM'd my cities yet and riots would occur due to this misclick. Reloads are expressely allowed for such misclicks and as soon as it happened I knew I would avail myself of that. Guess what? The turks bailed on us!! They treacherously ended the treaty early and left us holding the basket in the war vs Abbasids. I chuckled and thought it would be nice if they actually did make peace, but after I continued after the load from save, no such event occured. Whether the Turks took peace or not, whether a certain AI allied against us or not, all came down to dice rolls that are invisible (and in 'normal' games where the seed is preserved, are immutable). It's ironic then, what happened because they did not take an early peace
My other point in making this post is to say to Speaker and Arathorn - you guys did well with what you had, and the level and severity of the dogpile was unanticipated. While I'm by no means giving up on the game, I'm not going to be upset with the game (and especially not with anyone) for a second if we end up not surviving.
But let's end this on a hopeful note looking at the future. In this game like the elimination one, you get VP for *every unit alive* at the time the civ is wiped out. We don't even have to take 8 cities, but just *3*. If we can somehow get enough armies (so they don't get counterattacked and can get TO the cities) to take out
the three Abbasid king cities (or heck, any 3 king cities of any civ with a monstrous number of units) - we can score a HUGE number of victory points. The later in the game, the more units likely, and the more VP. I just don't know 'how many' pts that would mean on Sid. (But if RBC12-Celts is any indication, woo)
Good luck!
Charis
I tell you though, I'm really *kicking myself*. Way back when it
was just us and Turks vs the Abbasids, and we had just captured a city, they were willing to pay for peace, and the land was just starting to get overrun by assassins, I realized quite strongly the time for peace was now.
The only problem was... we were in an alliance with the Turks. We "only" had to last what, 7 turns, until we could end it, but really, my "spidey sense" was tingling something awful. They had a stack we could not stop about 2 turns away from the SW city (New Jerusalem) and we had absolutely nothing to gain from continuing.
I thought about it quite a bit actually, and in a solo game, I probably would have canceled the treaty early and taken peace. Our rep was (iirc???) no longer perfect due to the goofiness of the rep rules, and there wasn't much to lose by taking peace right then. I basically didn't want to let others down with a 'phony peace' exploit. It wasn't this - as that exploit is when you make a treaty you have no expectation of keeping, or when you get hard cash or tech out of it then cancel the treaty. But it looked dishonorable enough that I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger on it.
Hindsight is 20/20, but this isn't a case of looking back and seeing something I could have done to prevent it, I'm talking about staring at the screen 15 mins debating back then whether to take a peace or not. So I am curious if such 'treachery' to our turkish 'allies' would have been something my teammates would have been distraught to see, or would it have been a 'sensible move' at the time. Ironically, this is almost like Rice and Rumsfield. If I *had* made that choice unilaterally, no one would EVER have known just how AWFUL things got due to the monstrous snowball effect. One thing is for sure, with the economies as they are on Sid, you can expect not just to be allied against but to be outright dogpiled, and don't stay in a war any longer than you absolutely have to in order to meet a known objective.
What's worse... two turns before I had this big debate whether to take peace or not, I clicked in the box on the right unintentionall ending my turn and the game started going on to the AI's turn. I had definitely not finished, nor even MM'd my cities yet and riots would occur due to this misclick. Reloads are expressely allowed for such misclicks and as soon as it happened I knew I would avail myself of that. Guess what? The turks bailed on us!! They treacherously ended the treaty early and left us holding the basket in the war vs Abbasids. I chuckled and thought it would be nice if they actually did make peace, but after I continued after the load from save, no such event occured. Whether the Turks took peace or not, whether a certain AI allied against us or not, all came down to dice rolls that are invisible (and in 'normal' games where the seed is preserved, are immutable). It's ironic then, what happened because they did not take an early peace
My other point in making this post is to say to Speaker and Arathorn - you guys did well with what you had, and the level and severity of the dogpile was unanticipated. While I'm by no means giving up on the game, I'm not going to be upset with the game (and especially not with anyone) for a second if we end up not surviving.
But let's end this on a hopeful note looking at the future. In this game like the elimination one, you get VP for *every unit alive* at the time the civ is wiped out. We don't even have to take 8 cities, but just *3*. If we can somehow get enough armies (so they don't get counterattacked and can get TO the cities) to take out
the three Abbasid king cities (or heck, any 3 king cities of any civ with a monstrous number of units) - we can score a HUGE number of victory points. The later in the game, the more units likely, and the more VP. I just don't know 'how many' pts that would mean on Sid. (But if RBC12-Celts is any indication, woo)
Good luck!
Charis
T-hawk
Transcend
If it makes you feel any better, Charis, I wouldn't've reneged on the Turks alliance either. And in fact Speaker and I had the same choice you did before the alliance expired, and both of us chose the path of honor.
The losses to the Abbasids were a blow, but hardly a knockout. I felt then, and still do, that our alliance rep is more valuable than one terminally corrupt city. There will come a time when we'll want to sign as many alliances as possible with anyone who'll do it for a tech in payment, and then throw our reputation to the winds if we get in trouble. (Actually, I thought that time was nigh at the end of my turn or shortly into Arathorn's. I still think we should do that now - we need SOME distraction for Sweden, somehow...)
The losses to the Abbasids were a blow, but hardly a knockout. I felt then, and still do, that our alliance rep is more valuable than one terminally corrupt city. There will come a time when we'll want to sign as many alliances as possible with anyone who'll do it for a tech in payment, and then throw our reputation to the winds if we get in trouble. (Actually, I thought that time was nigh at the end of my turn or shortly into Arathorn's. I still think we should do that now - we need SOME distraction for Sweden, somehow...)
Jabah
Emperor
Pre-turn
So, we are at war with :
- Sweden (2 longships around)
- France (an out of date little SoD around but with we have nothing to dispatch them)
- Denmark
- Burgundy
- Castille
France and Denmark are allied against us and so are France and Burgundy
First try an immediat steal at the turks -> missed and not pleased but no war.
Then want to stop most wars and dogpile on Sweden to make them pay (and stop buying allies):
- France : peace+10g for 5gpt then Theology for 50g+34gpt.
- Denmark : peace+11g for 2gpt
Now
- Rus : alliance vs Sweden for Theology
- Magyars, Bulgars : alliances vs Sweden&Castille for Theology
- Norway : alliances vs Sweden& Castille for Polearms
build embassy in poland
- Poland : alliance vs Sweden for Theology
- Abbasids : spice for silks+1gpt (to be on the safe side)
- Germany : Polearms for 13g+8gpt to help them ressist a little better
MM and change a little (probably from recaptured cities working stupid tiles)
IT Castillians boats turn away, 1 swedish boat went away to sink a bulgar one and the other one sunk our dromon protecting Constantinople and both ran away (probably empty) ... nothing else..
1104AD (1) start building more pike, longbow and even a few temple (in the size 11, 15spt cities Pliska & Ancrya)
I am a little bit lost, we have too much units and noone to kill now
IT a swedish curragh drop a longbow next to Athens (which now have a defender)
3 danish longships decide to enter our waters, heading for Constantinople
??
1107AD (2) try to buy insurrance : wines+dyes+8gpt to Danes for Alliances vs Sweden. (turn cautious from furious)
kill the horse+curragh
IT the Fatimids land a sword and a answar next to Constantinople, the Danes land 2 zerks, 1 archer and 2 spear next to Chalcedon
1110AD (3) will let the danes have a chance to move north (but with enough troops in Chalcedon), ask the fatimids to leave and they ...accept unfortunatly not going too far away.
sink a (probably full) sweden longship.
buy Chivalry from Poland for 12g!!! (sid tech price !!!) and change Adrianople from NotreDame to Knights Templar (in 2t) for the cheap upgrades...
IT The danish troops in our borders are heading north (good), and their fleet capture Crete from Sweden.
1113AD (4) nothing special, thinking about sending some dromons and troops against south Italy soon (Castille)...
1116AD (5) Adrianople has completed the Knights Templar...
IT Sweden has completed Notre-Dame in Sigtuna (that was close..)
England & Castille are being dogpiled... France declares war on lots of Civ, including Bulgars
Since we already had killed one of the bulgar king, it should be a good idea to do something to finish them.
1119AD (6) nothing special
IT nothing
1122AD (7) land army+2longbow+1assassin+2pikes in south Italy, Dromon bombard to reveal only 2 reg spear in Antwerp.
IT nothing
1125AD (8) Dromons goes 3/3 on land bombardment still 2reg spear, longbow and assassin win to capture Antwerp
IT Turks (Ghuzz) have completed Robin Hood
1128AD (9) approching Rome...
Robin Hood completion has reduced the price of Divine Rights, time for a few trade
Norway : Invention+135g for Divine Right (Danemark had a better price but money as well)
Bulgar : Invention for 60g+34gpt+2workers
Danemark : Invention for 110g+22gpt
France : Invention for 95g+15gpt
IT some AI sign peace between them.
1131AD (10) First attack on Rome army kill a reg spear,...
Note for the next leader and the team
- I didn't check trade opportunity this time.
- keep escorting the danish zerks OUT...
- with HCav coming in 6t and KTemplar for the 'cheap' upgrade, several cities (incl. Constantinople) are on horsemen.
- Sweden is no more a threat (for us anyway)
- our core is safe now, with 3 dromons between Athens and Heraclea), we might even prevent ship from entering our sea.
- we might consider a Sheriff Office later in Constantinople
- we might need a few cathedral in the size 12 cities
- carefull about stealing tech from Turks, they are just 1 city away from us now and have Sipahis.
- unfortunatly turks and Abbasids are the tech leaders...
- we probably should have to go to war against Abbasids again...
- since Bulgary is giving us (lots of) money, forget the 'finish them' idea for a while.
- Vpoints : 12595 (vs 14160 for Turks)
Jabah
So, we are at war with :
- Sweden (2 longships around)
- France (an out of date little SoD around but with we have nothing to dispatch them)
- Denmark
- Burgundy
- Castille
France and Denmark are allied against us and so are France and Burgundy
First try an immediat steal at the turks -> missed and not pleased but no war.
Then want to stop most wars and dogpile on Sweden to make them pay (and stop buying allies):
- France : peace+10g for 5gpt then Theology for 50g+34gpt.
- Denmark : peace+11g for 2gpt
Now
- Rus : alliance vs Sweden for Theology
- Magyars, Bulgars : alliances vs Sweden&Castille for Theology
- Norway : alliances vs Sweden& Castille for Polearms
build embassy in poland
- Poland : alliance vs Sweden for Theology
- Abbasids : spice for silks+1gpt (to be on the safe side)
- Germany : Polearms for 13g+8gpt to help them ressist a little better
MM and change a little (probably from recaptured cities working stupid tiles)
IT Castillians boats turn away, 1 swedish boat went away to sink a bulgar one and the other one sunk our dromon protecting Constantinople and both ran away (probably empty) ... nothing else..
1104AD (1) start building more pike, longbow and even a few temple (in the size 11, 15spt cities Pliska & Ancrya)
I am a little bit lost, we have too much units and noone to kill now
IT a swedish curragh drop a longbow next to Athens (which now have a defender)
3 danish longships decide to enter our waters, heading for Constantinople
??1107AD (2) try to buy insurrance : wines+dyes+8gpt to Danes for Alliances vs Sweden. (turn cautious from furious)
kill the horse+curragh
IT the Fatimids land a sword and a answar next to Constantinople, the Danes land 2 zerks, 1 archer and 2 spear next to Chalcedon
1110AD (3) will let the danes have a chance to move north (but with enough troops in Chalcedon), ask the fatimids to leave and they ...accept
unfortunatly not going too far away.sink a (probably full) sweden longship.
buy Chivalry from Poland for 12g!!! (sid tech price
!!!) and change Adrianople from NotreDame to Knights Templar (in 2t) for the cheap upgrades...IT The danish troops in our borders are heading north (good), and their fleet capture Crete from Sweden.
1113AD (4) nothing special, thinking about sending some dromons and troops against south Italy soon (Castille)...
1116AD (5) Adrianople has completed the Knights Templar...
IT Sweden has completed Notre-Dame in Sigtuna (that was close..)
England & Castille are being dogpiled... France declares war on lots of Civ, including Bulgars
Since we already had killed one of the bulgar king, it should be a good idea to do something to finish them.
1119AD (6) nothing special
IT nothing
1122AD (7) land army+2longbow+1assassin+2pikes in south Italy, Dromon bombard to reveal only 2 reg spear in Antwerp.
IT nothing
1125AD (8) Dromons goes 3/3 on land bombardment still 2reg spear, longbow and assassin win to capture Antwerp
IT Turks (Ghuzz) have completed Robin Hood
1128AD (9) approching Rome...
Robin Hood completion has reduced the price of Divine Rights, time for a few trade
Norway : Invention+135g for Divine Right (Danemark had a better price but money as well)
Bulgar : Invention for 60g+34gpt+2workers
Danemark : Invention for 110g+22gpt
France : Invention for 95g+15gpt
IT some AI sign peace between them.
1131AD (10) First attack on Rome army kill a reg spear,...
Note for the next leader and the team
- I didn't check trade opportunity this time.
- keep escorting the danish zerks OUT...
- with HCav coming in 6t and KTemplar for the 'cheap' upgrade, several cities (incl. Constantinople) are on horsemen.
- Sweden is no more a threat (for us anyway)
- our core is safe now, with 3 dromons between Athens and Heraclea), we might even prevent ship from entering our sea.
- we might consider a Sheriff Office later in Constantinople
- we might need a few cathedral in the size 12 cities
- carefull about stealing tech from Turks, they are just 1 city away from us now and have Sipahis.
- unfortunatly turks and Abbasids are the tech leaders...
- we probably should have to go to war against Abbasids again...
- since Bulgary is giving us (lots of) money, forget the 'finish them' idea for a while.
- Vpoints : 12595 (vs 14160 for Turks)
Jabah
Jabah
Emperor
here is the map
Jabah
Jabah
Charis
Realms Beyond
Well, glad to see we're still breathing 
Arathorn's recent roster shows Speaker up next,
while earlier ones showed I'm after Jabah. Which is correct?
(I won't get to it tonight if it's me)
Charis
Arathorn's recent roster shows Speaker up next,
while earlier ones showed I'm after Jabah. Which is correct?
(I won't get to it tonight if it's me)
Charis
Jabah
Emperor
Originally posted by Charis
Well, glad to see we're still breathing
Charis
The problem now is exactly how to make Turks and Abbasids stop breathing
I think you were initially playing after me, but the 'official' roster last only once... maybe it should be time to follow it again.
Jabah
T-hawk
Transcend
Charis is up now; the roster has always been that way except when Jabah was skipped on the last rotation due to being away.
Great progress! Our lands secured again, a distraction for Sweden, some offensives against outlying cities. I think Cataphracts will be the turning point for real. Yes, definitely build all the horsemen we can in the next few turns - Knights Templar will let us upgrade them in bunches.
Just need a couple of Cataphract Armies, and we should be able to get back in the VP lead...
Great progress! Our lands secured again, a distraction for Sweden, some offensives against outlying cities. I think Cataphracts will be the turning point for real. Yes, definitely build all the horsemen we can in the next few turns - Knights Templar will let us upgrade them in bunches.
Just need a couple of Cataphract Armies, and we should be able to get back in the VP lead...
T-hawk
Transcend
I hate to nag, but you do know you're up, right, Charis? Any progress?
Charis
Realms Beyond
Aye, there's in fact progress! I was going to take the cheap way out and do 5, got 8 turns dones, and wanted to finish it up. Post and save will come tonight.
Thanks for the reminder... we do want to keep these movin'
Charis
Thanks for the reminder... we do want to keep these movin'
Charis
Charis
Realms Beyond
Our world is at war. Fortunately, there has been a sense of something bordering on control
where once there was a sense of impending and imminent implosion! We're at war with
Swededn, Burgundy, and Castille. Not the Abbasids, not the Turks - and let's hope it
stays that way unless on OUR terms. The Bulgars are paying us handsomely, ensuring their
existing at least short term.
Jabah mentioned no diplo check so we start there. (He also recommended to escort those
danish zerks out, keep on horsemen for upcoming cav, possible Sheriff office in cap)
Allies? Rus vs Swedes (10), Danes vs Swedes (12), Norway and Bulgars and Magyars all vs
Castille+Sweden (10). Good grief, our hands are tied again. I can only hope another dogpile
doesn't ensue. Other peace deals: Abby (14), and a dozen other countries 8 to 10
Who are 'the players' here? Abbasids and Turks are top dogs, Danes and Norwegians are
keeping up. The Rus are doing well on VP, and Abby have less VP than their stength would suggest.
We have no alliances vs Burgundy? I go through AGAIN to double check. Nope. (Initial
thought is - "Good, that's one war we can end." I look over previous leaders' notes, and
where our units are. Burgundy is down to capital + 3 cities. They'll give us Naples,
and we have no units in position anywhere to go after them. If we ever took over the
Bulgar land, Naples would be contiguous. On the Castille front, Rome will soon fall,
and Naples is across the see from them.
[0] 1131 AD - I see no reason not to take peace with Burgundy and get Naples. We do it.
Queue looks great, so I hit next turn...
IBT - Good or bad news depending how you look at it. The Fatimids decide it's time,
and declare war on the Abbasids. If they're strong, this will be excellent, to put
pressure on the top civ. If they're not ready it will be a disaster, handing the top
dogs oodles of VP. Castille and Bulgars come to peace. We see French and Bulgars are
still at it. Poland and Burgundy come to peace. There's more... Sweden and Turks ally!
Vs Fatimids! Phew! Then, more BIG news... Turks declare war on... Abbasids!
YES! They're getting squeezed on both sides!! When peace is up, if we can join in, on
about 14 turns unless we get them to declare, it will be a dogpile of THREE STRONG allies
on 3 fronts. Charis cackles in utter glee! The Abby's response by signing France to an
alliance vs the Turks.
[1] 1134 - Rome's last spear is defeated and we capture the city.
Not much else to do except rearrange troops a bit. I choose Ancrya as a rally point
(of sorts) to send most extra horse in prep for upgrade. I also swap New Sidon, our
forwardmost city, to a rax, and send an Assassin that way.
Did that last sentence scare you? It should, and I almost didn't catch it in time.
With the troops wandering through our land, especially Danes, Assassins must not
travel unescorted! The sub-bug will work against us as it will vs other AI.
If they want to move on a square with one of our assassins, it will cause war.
I cover our ass...asssins. BTW - Did you notice Abby cities are now covered by
Professional Army fueled Swiss Mercs (3.5.1)? Even with Cataphracts we'll see
quite significant losses vs those. And there's no better offense really, except for
the 6.1.1 longbow (which we do have and which are stronger than they look) IBT - Nothing??
[2] 1137 - Movin'. IBT - Turks and Germans ally vs Rus. Come on Turkey, focus!
Bulgars and Cordova come to peace.
[3] 1140 - Milan is captured from the Castillians, north of Rome. Genoa is next on the
list, then Pisa if it goes that long. IBT - Castillians beg for peace. OUr alliances due
not permit an affirmative answer. Germany and France ally vs England. Germany and
France ally vs Castille. (Don't get into a war with Germany, they never fight but ally
everyone!)
[4] 1143 - zzz. IBT - The boisterous Swedes ask for peace. For free, with a full apology
to us, in writing. Sorry, our alliances do not permit an answer in the affirmative.
Please do not ally anyone against us, and we'll talk in about 9 turns. 8-|
Castille and Turks come to peace. Danes are one turn from fully out of our land.
Germany the ally-buyer joins Abby in alliance vs Fatimids, then France declares on Fatis.
Germans and Magyars then ally vs England.
[5] 1146 - Our econ is looking good 1373g+143gpt, which is good as I'm cranking horsemen
like there is no tomorrow (Heavy Cav due next turn!) Otherwise, tis quiet. We have 114
of 78 allowed units, for a support cost of 36gpt (well spent). We're weak to Abby and
Fati, Danes, France and Poland, avg to Rus, Turks, Magyars, Sweden, strong to Germany.
IBT - Germany who actually never fights takes peace vs Bulgars. Denmark and France however
ally vs Bulgars. Castille and Abby ally vs Fati. Heavy Cav comes in, yay!! What is next?
It's so long since picking a new tech. Many good ones, but most can be bought, so I
start on Intelligence Ops (spies are VERY handy, and CHEAP). We could self-research it in
13-14, which seems good. This is vetoable, but I"m gonig to spend on it unless the cav
upgrades need tons more cash, or maybe it will end up being cheap to buy??
[6] 1149 - Cataphracts are now available. I'll just call them 'cav', since they are our cav.
They cost 70 units, making 35spt, 24spt, 18spt and 14spt key points. They're 60g to
upgrade, and if I hit shift-U I'm told it would be 1080g to update the 18 we have in rax
towns. We can afford that! For now I just do a few selectively. It turns out to be not
so selective, and I update all of them! If a few cav are good, more are better!
What would *really* turn this game around of course, is cav *armies*. Without those we
can't get into the type of prolonged slugfest war that will generate good VP. With them
we can focus on city (conquest) VP points not just pure unit kills.
IBT - Bulgars and Burgundy come to peace. Burgundy and Turks ally vs France.
The Danes are 100% out of our lands!
[7] 1152 - Genoa is captured by an MDI army vs an uberscout. We lost baout 9 hp.
IBT - Nothing? Either ally feast or famine for the AI...
[8] 1155 - Constantinople starts a sherriffs' office. Defense is not being neglected,
as have several pikes being made each turn in addtion to a few cavs.
It's turn 8, time to start checking peace timings. Up now is Germany and Cordova
Magyars, Bulgars and Poland (nothing to pay), England and Norway (possible Middle Class
discount) Also up: Rus, Turks. France and Danes due in 2, Abby due in 6. From the power
perspective, out of the civs with something to get, Norway is under half our power,
England/Rus/Turks about half. Only Abby is stronger in power, and Fati are close to us.
Norway and England have middle class, Rus have Defender and lack Invention,
Turks have Relig Persecution, Middle Class, Prof Army and Seamanship. Denmark has
3 of those 4 lacking Professional armies. It would be ideal to get Prof Army from
somewhere, but it's not possible by trade or steal, but since Turks have it - that
might be possible during peace renegotiate peace with Turks. If we can't stretch that,
getting a discount on Seamanship would be next best, then use that for Middle Ages and
perhaps Defender. Ok, we must start with a renegotiated peace with Turks.
Prof Army would cost 130gpt, yowza! Seamanship would cost 103gpt. Persecution 125gpt.
Not a huge difference between them, so lets go top of the line for trading potential.
I go to 136gpt and take his 95g too. To Danes, Prof Armies will get close to deal
on Seamanship and we must throw in 139g. The Rus now magically have Armies (gah!)
and we can't get Defender even for Invention+Seamanship. We take him to the table,
but Defender can't be pried out even for those two techs + peace + horses + iron.
So we can get nothing out of them except 1gpt. Disappointing. Norway is brought to
the table and gives up Middle Class for Seamanship. We're only down now relig persecution
and will have a chance to seek that discounted from Danes in two (perhaps).
Actually, no, Turks have Mercantilism too. Overall, that netted us three techs for
our gpt, but at a cost, we can make no further progress on Intelligence Operations
until we get back that income in 20 turns 8-\
Hey, pike to Swiss Merc only costs 15g! We don't have cash to do many, but do a token
one in Constantinople and one on the front lines, for now. (Mercs take 50s, so sadly
our three cities optimized for 20-21 spt need to swap to longbow? No, Sheriff!)
A few places start markets.
Uh oh... the Turks are now at 19,130 VP? Wow! That's, uh, getting up there QUICKLY.
IBT - Cordova and Abby ally vs Poland. Norway and Germany come to peace. Germany and
us go free peace
[9] 1158 - Turks at 19260 VP now, so their rate is small, +130 vppt. That must be quite
variable, as they were a few thousand lower in early part of my turn. Still, we'll
need to keep a close eye on these guys, and we'll need to get REALLY moving on getting
VP soon, before it comes to a juggernaut situation we can't stop. (Looking at map I
think I see why Turks rate has slowed. Abbasids are winning! They're capturing
Turk cities, and Turks are gassed from long war with Rus)
Not much to do, we move more troops into position for a presumed Abby attack.
IBT - Celts and Abby ally vs Fati.
[10] 1161 - Turks have 19850 VP, +590 vppt. If it continues at this pace, +600 per turn
would land them **30K Victory** in 17 turns!!! In fact, we've moved into fifth place
in VP. Abby, Rus, Swedes are clustered in #2-4 spots around 15K.
Ok, this turn we just lost income from expiring deals and are -38gpt. Our next leader
will get to 'fix' this small problem But first, let's look at France and Danes
whose peace expires now. France will pay 36gpt for Seamanship as it is and can
go no higher. We'll sell that tech and no need to force peace terms to get it.
Well, we were paying 5, so I renew for free. Bah, now they can only pay 31gpt
With the Danes, at the peace table we can get Relig Persecution for just Iron+16gpt,
and they'll throw in 46g. Good deal, and we can make Inquisitors at a cost of
30s which can see inviso and move all-terrain-as-road. Great Assassin scouts,
and with 4.1.1 offense can quite easily kill them as well. I order up a few.
Ok, you only have to fix a -16gpt situation now and we have 305g. (We can almost go
0% lux but a few cities like Adrianople and Chalcedon would need happiness bldg first)
Thoughts for next leader:
- I moved the *key* Dromon keeping the lanes open to Byzantium into the city last
turn to transport an assassin. Move it one SW and fortify it.
- We have a Silks/Spice deal going on with Abby that ran out this turn. They may choose
to continue it as is, or may want to renew it. Actually, we don't need it! So I
*do not* renew it, as we need to be clear of a lux committment to go after them.
- Consider a quick knockout of Bulgars? In 9 turns a 34gpt payment expires. (T-Hawk)
- In *4* turns our peace treaty with Abbasids runs out. If we're to have ANY CHANCE OF
WINNING, we need to take it to them, and stick it to them, and rack up a huge VP
score over the next 15-20 turns. Even then it will be hard to beat Turks.
If anyone, ally with Fatimids. Ally with anyone you like, I don't think the game will
last more than 20 turns now - 2 player turns!
- If you can push leader fishing, the best thing we could get are Cataphract armies.
- Our MDI army is advancing on Pisa... doh, it's Cordovan, not Castillian, too close
in color. Feel free to pull him back home, their job is done.
* Alliance situation: Rus vs Swedes expires NOW, Danes vs Swedes in 2 turns,
Norway and Bulgars and Magyars all vs Castille+Sweden expires now. I would terminate
every one, but up to you. Certainly we've heard and will not hear ANYTHING from Sweden
or Castille.
T-hawk <-- On deck (should be won or lost on your turn! No pressure! )
Arathorn (may not get it)
Jabah (probably done)
Charis (almost surely done)
Speaker <-- UP NOW
RBC13 Byz 1161 Save
Good luck!
Charis
where once there was a sense of impending and imminent implosion! We're at war with
Swededn, Burgundy, and Castille. Not the Abbasids, not the Turks - and let's hope it
stays that way unless on OUR terms. The Bulgars are paying us handsomely, ensuring their
existing at least short term.
Jabah mentioned no diplo check so we start there. (He also recommended to escort those
danish zerks out, keep on horsemen for upcoming cav, possible Sheriff office in cap)
Allies? Rus vs Swedes (10), Danes vs Swedes (12), Norway and Bulgars and Magyars all vs
Castille+Sweden (10). Good grief, our hands are tied again. I can only hope another dogpile
doesn't ensue. Other peace deals: Abby (14), and a dozen other countries 8 to 10
Who are 'the players' here? Abbasids and Turks are top dogs, Danes and Norwegians are
keeping up. The Rus are doing well on VP, and Abby have less VP than their stength would suggest.
We have no alliances vs Burgundy? I go through AGAIN to double check. Nope. (Initial
thought is - "Good, that's one war we can end." I look over previous leaders' notes, and
where our units are. Burgundy is down to capital + 3 cities. They'll give us Naples,
and we have no units in position anywhere to go after them. If we ever took over the
Bulgar land, Naples would be contiguous. On the Castille front, Rome will soon fall,
and Naples is across the see from them.
[0] 1131 AD - I see no reason not to take peace with Burgundy and get Naples. We do it.
Queue looks great, so I hit next turn...
IBT - Good or bad news depending how you look at it. The Fatimids decide it's time,
and declare war on the Abbasids. If they're strong, this will be excellent, to put
pressure on the top civ. If they're not ready it will be a disaster, handing the top
dogs oodles of VP. Castille and Bulgars come to peace. We see French and Bulgars are
still at it. Poland and Burgundy come to peace. There's more... Sweden and Turks ally!
Vs Fatimids! Phew! Then, more BIG news... Turks declare war on... Abbasids!
YES! They're getting squeezed on both sides!! When peace is up, if we can join in, on
about 14 turns unless we get them to declare, it will be a dogpile of THREE STRONG allies
on 3 fronts. Charis cackles in utter glee! The Abby's response by signing France to an
alliance vs the Turks.
[1] 1134 - Rome's last spear is defeated and we capture the city.
Not much else to do except rearrange troops a bit. I choose Ancrya as a rally point
(of sorts) to send most extra horse in prep for upgrade. I also swap New Sidon, our
forwardmost city, to a rax, and send an Assassin that way.
Did that last sentence scare you? It should, and I almost didn't catch it in time.
With the troops wandering through our land, especially Danes, Assassins must not
travel unescorted! The sub-bug will work against us as it will vs other AI.
If they want to move on a square with one of our assassins, it will cause war.
I cover our ass...asssins. BTW - Did you notice Abby cities are now covered by
Professional Army fueled Swiss Mercs (3.5.1)? Even with Cataphracts we'll see
quite significant losses vs those. And there's no better offense really, except for
the 6.1.1 longbow (which we do have and which are stronger than they look) IBT - Nothing??
[2] 1137 - Movin'. IBT - Turks and Germans ally vs Rus. Come on Turkey, focus!
Bulgars and Cordova come to peace.
[3] 1140 - Milan is captured from the Castillians, north of Rome. Genoa is next on the
list, then Pisa if it goes that long. IBT - Castillians beg for peace. OUr alliances due
not permit an affirmative answer. Germany and France ally vs England. Germany and
France ally vs Castille. (Don't get into a war with Germany, they never fight but ally
everyone!)
[4] 1143 - zzz. IBT - The boisterous Swedes ask for peace. For free, with a full apology
to us, in writing. Sorry, our alliances do not permit an answer in the affirmative.
Please do not ally anyone against us, and we'll talk in about 9 turns. 8-|
Castille and Turks come to peace. Danes are one turn from fully out of our land.
Germany the ally-buyer joins Abby in alliance vs Fatimids, then France declares on Fatis.
Germans and Magyars then ally vs England.
[5] 1146 - Our econ is looking good 1373g+143gpt, which is good as I'm cranking horsemen
like there is no tomorrow (Heavy Cav due next turn!) Otherwise, tis quiet. We have 114
of 78 allowed units, for a support cost of 36gpt (well spent). We're weak to Abby and
Fati, Danes, France and Poland, avg to Rus, Turks, Magyars, Sweden, strong to Germany.
IBT - Germany who actually never fights takes peace vs Bulgars. Denmark and France however
ally vs Bulgars. Castille and Abby ally vs Fati. Heavy Cav comes in, yay!! What is next?
It's so long since picking a new tech. Many good ones, but most can be bought, so I
start on Intelligence Ops (spies are VERY handy, and CHEAP). We could self-research it in
13-14, which seems good. This is vetoable, but I"m gonig to spend on it unless the cav
upgrades need tons more cash, or maybe it will end up being cheap to buy??
[6] 1149 - Cataphracts are now available. I'll just call them 'cav', since they are our cav.
They cost 70 units, making 35spt, 24spt, 18spt and 14spt key points. They're 60g to
upgrade, and if I hit shift-U I'm told it would be 1080g to update the 18 we have in rax
towns. We can afford that! For now I just do a few selectively. It turns out to be not
so selective, and I update all of them! If a few cav are good, more are better!
What would *really* turn this game around of course, is cav *armies*. Without those we
can't get into the type of prolonged slugfest war that will generate good VP. With them
we can focus on city (conquest) VP points not just pure unit kills.
IBT - Bulgars and Burgundy come to peace. Burgundy and Turks ally vs France.
The Danes are 100% out of our lands!
[7] 1152 - Genoa is captured by an MDI army vs an uberscout. We lost baout 9 hp.
IBT - Nothing? Either ally feast or famine for the AI...
[8] 1155 - Constantinople starts a sherriffs' office. Defense is not being neglected,
as have several pikes being made each turn in addtion to a few cavs.
It's turn 8, time to start checking peace timings. Up now is Germany and Cordova
Magyars, Bulgars and Poland (nothing to pay), England and Norway (possible Middle Class
discount) Also up: Rus, Turks. France and Danes due in 2, Abby due in 6. From the power
perspective, out of the civs with something to get, Norway is under half our power,
England/Rus/Turks about half. Only Abby is stronger in power, and Fati are close to us.
Norway and England have middle class, Rus have Defender and lack Invention,
Turks have Relig Persecution, Middle Class, Prof Army and Seamanship. Denmark has
3 of those 4 lacking Professional armies. It would be ideal to get Prof Army from
somewhere, but it's not possible by trade or steal, but since Turks have it - that
might be possible during peace renegotiate peace with Turks. If we can't stretch that,
getting a discount on Seamanship would be next best, then use that for Middle Ages and
perhaps Defender. Ok, we must start with a renegotiated peace with Turks.
Prof Army would cost 130gpt, yowza! Seamanship would cost 103gpt. Persecution 125gpt.
Not a huge difference between them, so lets go top of the line for trading potential.
I go to 136gpt and take his 95g too. To Danes, Prof Armies will get close to deal
on Seamanship and we must throw in 139g. The Rus now magically have Armies (gah!)
and we can't get Defender even for Invention+Seamanship. We take him to the table,
but Defender can't be pried out even for those two techs + peace + horses + iron.
So we can get nothing out of them except 1gpt. Disappointing. Norway is brought to
the table and gives up Middle Class for Seamanship. We're only down now relig persecution
and will have a chance to seek that discounted from Danes in two (perhaps).
Actually, no, Turks have Mercantilism too. Overall, that netted us three techs for
our gpt, but at a cost, we can make no further progress on Intelligence Operations
until we get back that income in 20 turns 8-\
Hey, pike to Swiss Merc only costs 15g! We don't have cash to do many, but do a token
one in Constantinople and one on the front lines, for now. (Mercs take 50s, so sadly
our three cities optimized for 20-21 spt need to swap to longbow? No, Sheriff!)
A few places start markets.
Uh oh... the Turks are now at 19,130 VP? Wow! That's, uh, getting up there QUICKLY.
IBT - Cordova and Abby ally vs Poland. Norway and Germany come to peace. Germany and
us go free peace
[9] 1158 - Turks at 19260 VP now, so their rate is small, +130 vppt. That must be quite
variable, as they were a few thousand lower in early part of my turn. Still, we'll
need to keep a close eye on these guys, and we'll need to get REALLY moving on getting
VP soon, before it comes to a juggernaut situation we can't stop. (Looking at map I
think I see why Turks rate has slowed. Abbasids are winning! They're capturing
Turk cities, and Turks are gassed from long war with Rus)
Not much to do, we move more troops into position for a presumed Abby attack.
IBT - Celts and Abby ally vs Fati.
[10] 1161 - Turks have 19850 VP, +590 vppt. If it continues at this pace, +600 per turn
would land them **30K Victory** in 17 turns!!! In fact, we've moved into fifth place
in VP. Abby, Rus, Swedes are clustered in #2-4 spots around 15K.
Ok, this turn we just lost income from expiring deals and are -38gpt. Our next leader
will get to 'fix' this small problem
But first, let's look at France and Daneswhose peace expires now. France will pay 36gpt for Seamanship as it is and can
go no higher. We'll sell that tech and no need to force peace terms to get it.
Well, we were paying 5, so I renew for free. Bah, now they can only pay 31gpt
With the Danes, at the peace table we can get Relig Persecution for just Iron+16gpt,
and they'll throw in 46g. Good deal, and we can make Inquisitors at a cost of
30s which can see inviso and move all-terrain-as-road. Great Assassin scouts,
and with 4.1.1 offense can quite easily kill them as well. I order up a few.
Ok, you only have to fix a -16gpt situation now and we have 305g. (We can almost go
0% lux but a few cities like Adrianople and Chalcedon would need happiness bldg first)
Thoughts for next leader:
- I moved the *key* Dromon keeping the lanes open to Byzantium into the city last
turn to transport an assassin. Move it one SW and fortify it.
- We have a Silks/Spice deal going on with Abby that ran out this turn. They may choose
to continue it as is, or may want to renew it. Actually, we don't need it! So I
*do not* renew it, as we need to be clear of a lux committment to go after them.
- Consider a quick knockout of Bulgars? In 9 turns a 34gpt payment expires. (T-Hawk)
- In *4* turns our peace treaty with Abbasids runs out. If we're to have ANY CHANCE OF
WINNING, we need to take it to them, and stick it to them, and rack up a huge VP
score over the next 15-20 turns. Even then it will be hard to beat Turks.
If anyone, ally with Fatimids. Ally with anyone you like, I don't think the game will
last more than 20 turns now - 2 player turns!
- If you can push leader fishing, the best thing we could get are Cataphract armies.
- Our MDI army is advancing on Pisa... doh, it's Cordovan, not Castillian, too close
in color. Feel free to pull him back home, their job is done.
* Alliance situation: Rus vs Swedes expires NOW, Danes vs Swedes in 2 turns,
Norway and Bulgars and Magyars all vs Castille+Sweden expires now. I would terminate
every one, but up to you. Certainly we've heard and will not hear ANYTHING from Sweden
or Castille.
T-hawk <-- On deck (should be won or lost on your turn! No pressure!
)Arathorn (may not get it)
Jabah (probably done)
Charis (almost surely done)
Speaker <-- UP NOW
RBC13 Byz 1161 Save
Good luck!
Charis
T-hawk
Transcend
Great progress. Our backs are off the wall, but can we go on the offensive in time? We shall see...
I'd suggest canning research for good - the intelligence tech is fairly expensive, we'd have to build the intelligence agency as well, and what spy missions exactly are worth the cash anyway?
As for other builds, it sounds like the time for infrastructure is over. The time horizon now is too short for granaries or aqueducts or blacksmiths to pay off before the game ends. Nothin' but cataphracts and inquisitors from here until eternity - and we should pour available cash towards rushing as many of them as possible, IMO.
Go for it, Speaker
I'd suggest canning research for good - the intelligence tech is fairly expensive, we'd have to build the intelligence agency as well, and what spy missions exactly are worth the cash anyway?
As for other builds, it sounds like the time for infrastructure is over. The time horizon now is too short for granaries or aqueducts or blacksmiths to pay off before the game ends. Nothin' but cataphracts and inquisitors from here until eternity - and we should pour available cash towards rushing as many of them as possible, IMO.
Go for it, Speaker
IT- Germany will offer 13gpt for the Middle Class, so that deals with our cash woes. England will give 18gpt for Seamanship, which I take. Celts give 325 gold for Mapmaking. Rus will give Intelligence Operations for Seamanship, Middle Class, and Religious Persecution. I cancel all the alliances. I sign peace with Castille to avoid any further dogpiling from them.
*enter*
Sweden and Bulgars peace
Sweden and Magyars peace
Burgandy-Turks MA vs Norway
1164AD (1): Ancyra (35spt without corruption) switches to Inquisition, due in 5. This will be a Cataphract every other turn. Burgundy will pay 133 gold and a worker for Middle Class. Magyars offer Iron for Chivalry, Invention, and Middle Class, which I take, since Charis traded ours.
1167AD (2): Cancel our alliance with Denmark and we are alliance free. Begin shuffling some units toward the Abbasid border in preparation for war.
IT- Norway - Castille sign peace
Franks destroy Burgundy.
England-Abbasids MA vs Fatimid Caliphate.
Cordova-Abbasids MA vs Fatimid Caliphate.
Magyars-Abbasids MA vs Turks.
1170AD (3): Pretty relaxed turn. Moved a few units around.
IT- Bulgars-Turks peace.
Celts-Turks peace.
Abbasids-England MA vs Germany.
Magyars-Abbasids MA vs Germany, Fatimid Caliphate.
1173AD (4): Peace with Abbasids is up, but we do not need to declare war yet. I will pass off next turn, so I move Cataphracts into position now, in case T-Hawk wants to declare next turn. There are 10 Cataphracts ready to attack Septum and 10 ready to attack New Jerusalem (on a hill, not a great target) next turn, plus assorted slow troops in support.
IT- Norway-Abbasid MA vs Poland.
1176AD (5): I make peace with Sweden to remove that distraction from our future plans. Assortment of boats blocking paths screwed with the movement of a dromon containing our MI army. I had dragged him a bunch of spaces and when his path was blocked he searched for a new route, going the wrong way, and using up all his movement. He'll miss the beginning of the war I guess.
Sorry. Cataphracts are ready to attack, with full movement.
Conclusion- This is a good time to pass off. I guess we're ready for the Abbasid war. 2 more cataphracts will be trained next turn, and Constantinople and Ancyra will both be able to produce 35spt, or a Cataphract every other turn. The Abbasids are awfully strong, but my gut tells me T-Hawk is stronger.
The Beginning of the End
*enter*
Sweden and Bulgars peace
Sweden and Magyars peace
Burgandy-Turks MA vs Norway
1164AD (1): Ancyra (35spt without corruption) switches to Inquisition, due in 5. This will be a Cataphract every other turn. Burgundy will pay 133 gold and a worker for Middle Class. Magyars offer Iron for Chivalry, Invention, and Middle Class, which I take, since Charis traded ours.
1167AD (2): Cancel our alliance with Denmark and we are alliance free. Begin shuffling some units toward the Abbasid border in preparation for war.
IT- Norway - Castille sign peace
Franks destroy Burgundy.
England-Abbasids MA vs Fatimid Caliphate.
Cordova-Abbasids MA vs Fatimid Caliphate.
Magyars-Abbasids MA vs Turks.
1170AD (3): Pretty relaxed turn. Moved a few units around.
IT- Bulgars-Turks peace.
Celts-Turks peace.
Abbasids-England MA vs Germany.
Magyars-Abbasids MA vs Germany, Fatimid Caliphate.
1173AD (4): Peace with Abbasids is up, but we do not need to declare war yet. I will pass off next turn, so I move Cataphracts into position now, in case T-Hawk wants to declare next turn. There are 10 Cataphracts ready to attack Septum and 10 ready to attack New Jerusalem (on a hill, not a great target) next turn, plus assorted slow troops in support.
IT- Norway-Abbasid MA vs Poland.
1176AD (5): I make peace with Sweden to remove that distraction from our future plans. Assortment of boats blocking paths screwed with the movement of a dromon containing our MI army. I had dragged him a bunch of spaces and when his path was blocked he searched for a new route, going the wrong way, and using up all his movement. He'll miss the beginning of the war I guess.
Sorry. Cataphracts are ready to attack, with full movement.Conclusion- This is a good time to pass off. I guess we're ready for the Abbasid war. 2 more cataphracts will be trained next turn, and Constantinople and Ancyra will both be able to produce 35spt, or a Cataphract every other turn. The Abbasids are awfully strong, but my gut tells me T-Hawk is stronger.
The Beginning of the End
T-hawk
Transcend
Armageddon is nigh, eh?
I got it and can play tomorrow. Will go for the Abbasids, and keep an eye towards attacking the Bulgars as well (our future reputation is pretty much meaningless at this late date.) Not sure if splitting the cavs 10-and-10 is the best approach; on Sid, the AIs get to build huge piles of defenders. Do you know what kind of defenders are showing in the Abbasid cities?
I got it and can play tomorrow. Will go for the Abbasids, and keep an eye towards attacking the Bulgars as well (our future reputation is pretty much meaningless at this late date.) Not sure if splitting the cavs 10-and-10 is the best approach; on Sid, the AIs get to build huge piles of defenders. Do you know what kind of defenders are showing in the Abbasid cities?
Looks like I may get another turn in this. It can't be any worse than the last one....
What's the VP situation? How far behind are we? At all close? How close is the leader (Turks, still?) to winning the game?
We'll want to capture as many cities as possible. The big VPs in this conquest appear to come with cities and not with units. Yes, if we can eliminate a non-gassed foe, it's worth a fair bit, but cities seem to be where the big VPs are.
Also, check and see if we can get some gold and/or rebates and/or luxuries or something for an alliance or 5 against the Abassids. I'm not saying we'll honor it, but there's no sense not checking at this point. Reputation hardly matters at this point.
Arathorn
What's the VP situation? How far behind are we? At all close? How close is the leader (Turks, still?) to winning the game?
We'll want to capture as many cities as possible. The big VPs in this conquest appear to come with cities and not with units. Yes, if we can eliminate a non-gassed foe, it's worth a fair bit, but cities seem to be where the big VPs are.
Also, check and see if we can get some gold and/or rebates and/or luxuries or something for an alliance or 5 against the Abassids. I'm not saying we'll honor it, but there's no sense not checking at this point. Reputation hardly matters at this point.
Arathorn
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