RBC13A - Middle Ages - Byzantium, Sid
- Thread starter T-hawk
- Start date
(0) 990 - Move Theodora out to block free path to Nicaea. Bring spear to defend Chalcedon. Look at further agreements with either Bulgars or Abassids, but there's nothing really to do. We don't have any more common enemies -- nobody's really met the world except us.
And, with a dogpile coming, I have little option but to set science to zero -- we'll need some cash for rushing and for buying allies. Look into rushing things this turn, too. Science to zero and townhall rushed in Heraclea -- our best option in the east.
Cross fingers and hit enter....
(I) Bulgar archer moves north and ... doesn't attack? A twisted route to the Magyars, perhaps? The Abassids do attack and raze Attalea as expected. I don't know what to do about them.
(1) 993 - It costs Medieval Combat and 4 gpt to get the Turks in on our side. We have essentially no defenses in the southeast. I'm trying to move some there. Once Const finishes its blacksmith, it can a horse/turn which will be quite helpful.
Moving defenses south and east. Regular warriors barely qualify as "defenses" but it's the best we can muster. Sigh.
(I) No casualties, although lots of enemy troops appear. Germany declares on Turks, too.
(2) 996 - Frickin' Bulgar ship is still blocking our way out of Constantinople and I can't even order him out because of our RoP. I really want to get some bombard support (and a GA) going, but it's not possible right now. Blast it all.
Despite good bombardment, the Magyars are killing us. I lose 2 vet swords and a vet archer to 2 hp spears. Blasted PRNG. Eliminate that offensive threat, but they're sending a stack of spears that I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with next turn. Oh well...one turn at a time, right? Abassids can't really attack this turn but will probably get another city next turn, unless I'm very lucky.
Check trading. Check F8. Hey, it's turn 51. Worker buys are back in force. Kievan Rus get Code of Laws and Medieval Combat (both are somewhat known) for *6* workers and 29 gold. Dyes to Germany for 134 gold is tempting, but I don't trust our trade route and it's probably not worth killing our rep for 134 gold, although this may be the most critical stage.
(I) Magyars and Bulgars trade troops. Boy am I glad we're not fighting the whole horde of either of them at this point. They're each losing 4-8 troops/turn that I can see and heaven only knows how many in the fog. Abassids bring a stack of 4 horsemen into range of two cities. They're unfortunately on a hill, so attacking doesn't give the best odds, either.
Germans complete Bayeux Tapestry.
(3) 999 - Hmmm, defend at 1.35 vs. 2 and be certain of keeping the city or chance attacking at 1 vs. 1.5? It's a very slight mathematical advantage for defending. But I'd rather attack and it's very close, anyway. CHARGE!
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- redlines, wins, and promotes!
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- does 2 damage and dies.
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- does 1 damage and dies.
Reg horse vs. vet horse -- does 3 damage and dies.
Reg baseil (king) vs. 3/4 horse -- redlines but wins!
Septum is defended by a vet horse and the injured basil. Vet spear will arive next turn. They have a 2/4 and a 1/4 horse that can attack.
(I) YES!!! That Bulgar archer that dropped off near Constantinople with no apparent purpose made it through our lands in time to kill a Magyar spear that was going to pillage one of our squares next turn. HA! Once in a while, things do work out.
And both Abassids horsemen attack, but they only succeed in promoting our defending horse to a 2/5.
(4) 1002 - Poland shows up. It costs 60 gold but we're now at peace. Adding a stack of about 5 each of spears, archers, and swords to our northern front was not really something I wanted to do.
Northern Dromon finds a swedish longboat. Cross my fingers and attack. We lose one hp but win and enter a VERY needed GA. Income goes from 33 gpt to 86 gpt. Re-MM all our cities. Const @ 49 spt is doing a medieval/turn, which is wasting 9 shields but seems the best option at this point.
Germany can offer 10 gpt for Dyes, so we make that trade. Even if the route's broken, our rep should be fine. Sell medieval combat cheap to Castile (60 + 1 gpt) to afford walls in Septum. Two horses will hit it this IT, but it won't fall this turn.
(I) Magyars and Bulgars continue to fight. Septum successfully retreats and kills, respectively, the vet and regular horse which attacked it.
(5) 1005 - Our brave GA-inducing dromon tries to take out a second Swedish longboat but fails to even scratch the paint.
And, on my third elite horsie win this turn, Justinian comes to party!!!
Everybody else moves but Justinian is saved for the next leader. Just don't hit enter without moving him as he's in danger of Abassid archers!!!!
Notes:
- Lost Roman Secrets is known by the Kievan Rus. It's the only tech we were down.
- I've not really checked diplo or MM this turn. It probably should be done.
- I would probably make an MDI army out of Justinian, if I had time to keep playing.
Good luck! Only about 5 more turns and we can make peace with the Magyars. Sweden still won't even talk to us.
Arathorn
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc13a-1005ad.zip
And, with a dogpile coming, I have little option but to set science to zero -- we'll need some cash for rushing and for buying allies. Look into rushing things this turn, too. Science to zero and townhall rushed in Heraclea -- our best option in the east.
Cross fingers and hit enter....
(I) Bulgar archer moves north and ... doesn't attack? A twisted route to the Magyars, perhaps? The Abassids do attack and raze Attalea as expected. I don't know what to do about them.
(1) 993 - It costs Medieval Combat and 4 gpt to get the Turks in on our side. We have essentially no defenses in the southeast. I'm trying to move some there. Once Const finishes its blacksmith, it can a horse/turn which will be quite helpful.
Moving defenses south and east. Regular warriors barely qualify as "defenses" but it's the best we can muster. Sigh.
(I) No casualties, although lots of enemy troops appear. Germany declares on Turks, too.
(2) 996 - Frickin' Bulgar ship is still blocking our way out of Constantinople and I can't even order him out because of our RoP. I really want to get some bombard support (and a GA) going, but it's not possible right now. Blast it all.
Despite good bombardment, the Magyars are killing us. I lose 2 vet swords and a vet archer to 2 hp spears. Blasted PRNG. Eliminate that offensive threat, but they're sending a stack of spears that I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with next turn. Oh well...one turn at a time, right? Abassids can't really attack this turn but will probably get another city next turn, unless I'm very lucky.
Check trading. Check F8. Hey, it's turn 51. Worker buys are back in force. Kievan Rus get Code of Laws and Medieval Combat (both are somewhat known) for *6* workers and 29 gold. Dyes to Germany for 134 gold is tempting, but I don't trust our trade route and it's probably not worth killing our rep for 134 gold, although this may be the most critical stage.
(I) Magyars and Bulgars trade troops. Boy am I glad we're not fighting the whole horde of either of them at this point. They're each losing 4-8 troops/turn that I can see and heaven only knows how many in the fog. Abassids bring a stack of 4 horsemen into range of two cities. They're unfortunately on a hill, so attacking doesn't give the best odds, either.
Germans complete Bayeux Tapestry.
(3) 999 - Hmmm, defend at 1.35 vs. 2 and be certain of keeping the city or chance attacking at 1 vs. 1.5? It's a very slight mathematical advantage for defending. But I'd rather attack and it's very close, anyway. CHARGE!
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- redlines, wins, and promotes!
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- does 2 damage and dies.
Reg warrior vs. vet horse -- does 1 damage and dies.
Reg horse vs. vet horse -- does 3 damage and dies.
Reg baseil (king) vs. 3/4 horse -- redlines but wins!
Septum is defended by a vet horse and the injured basil. Vet spear will arive next turn. They have a 2/4 and a 1/4 horse that can attack.
(I) YES!!! That Bulgar archer that dropped off near Constantinople with no apparent purpose made it through our lands in time to kill a Magyar spear that was going to pillage one of our squares next turn. HA! Once in a while, things do work out.
And both Abassids horsemen attack, but they only succeed in promoting our defending horse to a 2/5.
(4) 1002 - Poland shows up. It costs 60 gold but we're now at peace. Adding a stack of about 5 each of spears, archers, and swords to our northern front was not really something I wanted to do.
Northern Dromon finds a swedish longboat. Cross my fingers and attack. We lose one hp but win and enter a VERY needed GA. Income goes from 33 gpt to 86 gpt. Re-MM all our cities. Const @ 49 spt is doing a medieval/turn, which is wasting 9 shields but seems the best option at this point.
Germany can offer 10 gpt for Dyes, so we make that trade. Even if the route's broken, our rep should be fine. Sell medieval combat cheap to Castile (60 + 1 gpt) to afford walls in Septum. Two horses will hit it this IT, but it won't fall this turn.
(I) Magyars and Bulgars continue to fight. Septum successfully retreats and kills, respectively, the vet and regular horse which attacked it.
(5) 1005 - Our brave GA-inducing dromon tries to take out a second Swedish longboat but fails to even scratch the paint.
And, on my third elite horsie win this turn, Justinian comes to party!!!
Everybody else moves but Justinian is saved for the next leader. Just don't hit enter without moving him as he's in danger of Abassid archers!!!!
Notes:
- Lost Roman Secrets is known by the Kievan Rus. It's the only tech we were down.
- I've not really checked diplo or MM this turn. It probably should be done.
- I would probably make an MDI army out of Justinian, if I had time to keep playing.
Good luck! Only about 5 more turns and we can make peace with the Magyars. Sweden still won't even talk to us.
Arathorn
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/rbc13a-1005ad.zip
Charis
Realms Beyond
That could have been worse! I can picture the slimness of our forces down south. Very good thing you got our GA going! I think that will be viewed later as 'the turning point' 
Peace with the Magyars sounds very good indeed, we'll need to focus on our potent ex-friends to the south.
Let's see... successor?! Jabah is self-skipped thru the 4th. Speaker, you want a crack here, as I've been up somewhat recently? If not I'll take it unless the 4th draws nigh (which it shouldn't)
Charis
Peace with the Magyars sounds very good indeed, we'll need to focus on our potent ex-friends to the south.
Let's see... successor?! Jabah is self-skipped thru the 4th. Speaker, you want a crack here, as I've been up somewhat recently? If not I'll take it unless the 4th draws nigh (which it shouldn't)
Charis
T-hawk
Transcend
Wow! I never would have figured the Bulgars to not be attacking us. Weirdest offensive strategy I've ever seen the AI do, though. Maybe because of the two canal cities, it somehow thought it could sail into the Black Sea for a direct coastal dropoff?
Agreed on the
on the Golden Age, and on the Great Leader. I might suggest an army of two MDI and one sword; the army will almost never get to that last unit on offense, it's just as good on defense, and that'd leave one more of the few MDI we manage to build free for general use.
Kievan Rus have Lost Roman - excellent. Next time another tech (Map Making) becomes available, we can buy that and trade it to Kiev for Lost Roman. Maybe Kiev will manage to research Heavy Cavalry for us too.
Speaker is skipped for his last round; if he took it now, he'd be up again right away after Charis anyway. Take it now, C - go 5-10 turns as you see fit, but not till after you post an Epic 39 report.
T-hawk
Arathorn - justed
Jabah - skip for this round
Charis << UP NOW
Speaker << On Deck
Agreed on the
on the Golden Age, and on the Great Leader. I might suggest an army of two MDI and one sword; the army will almost never get to that last unit on offense, it's just as good on defense, and that'd leave one more of the few MDI we manage to build free for general use.Kievan Rus have Lost Roman - excellent. Next time another tech (Map Making) becomes available, we can buy that and trade it to Kiev for Lost Roman. Maybe Kiev will manage to research Heavy Cavalry for us too.
Speaker is skipped for his last round; if he took it now, he'd be up again right away after Charis anyway. Take it now, C - go 5-10 turns as you see fit, but not till after you post an Epic 39 report.
T-hawk
Arathorn - just
edJabah - skip for this round
Charis << UP NOW
Speaker << On Deck
Definitely do NOT do 2 MDI and a sword. That makes an effective 5/3/2 unit. We would only get one bonus on offense and defense. The rule is, essentially, sum the total A/D values for all units in the army, divide by six, and truncate remainders (div operation). So, with 2 MDIs and a sword, the total A/D is 4+4+3/2+2+2 = 11/6 for a bonus of +1/+1. Simply using a third MDI (and Const can make one/turn in the GA) gives us a total A/D of 4+4+4/2+2+2 = 12/6 for a bonus of +2/+1 or a 6/3/2 unit. That extra point of attack for our main military weapon for only 10 shields is a no-brainer, IMO.
Be warned that peace with the Magyars would ruin our rep. We have 5 more turns of an alliance with the Bulgars vs. the Magyars. We're holding our own up there -- sometimes attacking just outside our cultural borders, sometimes risking being pillaged, but never in my five turns in danger of having a city overrun. South is another story, as we're just starting to finally get a few units in place. Fortunately, the AI did the fast/slow unit split, so we've survived the horse wave and the archer wave is just arriving. Tide may turn there soon.
I would leave the army in the south (well, move the leader back quite a ways to get it filled quickly with slow MDI and then use the bonus move to get it back to the front quickly) and hopefully go on the offensive against the Abassids. We're locked in for another ~14 turns with them, so we may as well try to gain some land.
Arathorn
Be warned that peace with the Magyars would ruin our rep. We have 5 more turns of an alliance with the Bulgars vs. the Magyars. We're holding our own up there -- sometimes attacking just outside our cultural borders, sometimes risking being pillaged, but never in my five turns in danger of having a city overrun. South is another story, as we're just starting to finally get a few units in place. Fortunately, the AI did the fast/slow unit split, so we've survived the horse wave and the archer wave is just arriving. Tide may turn there soon.
I would leave the army in the south (well, move the leader back quite a ways to get it filled quickly with slow MDI and then use the bonus move to get it back to the front quickly) and hopefully go on the offensive against the Abassids. We're locked in for another ~14 turns with them, so we may as well try to gain some land.
Arathorn
T-hawk
Transcend
Is that the rule? I'd thought it was 1/6 of the bonus of the *average* of the army's units, and that fractions were included as they are for all defender's percentage bonuses. So MDI/MDI/sword would be 4.61 attack and 3x MDI would be 4.67, a trivial difference.
If you're right, no wonder that armies are so powerful - a three-unit army gets an attack value of 50% higher than a lone unit would. Yes, fill it with MDI, of course.
If you're right, no wonder that armies are so powerful - a three-unit army gets an attack value of 50% higher than a lone unit would. Yes, fill it with MDI, of course.
Yes, that's the rule. That's why an immortal army 6/3/2 is so much scarier than a sword army 4/3/2. In the epic game, the bonus goes up to 1/4 upon completion of the military academy, so things get even scarier (e.g. an army with 4 cavalry and the MA completed is a 12/6/4 monster).
To my knowledge, this hasn't been explicitly re-verified by the programmers, but it was said in the initial announcements and a few tests (couple thousand iterations only) indicated that this was indeed the rule. Armies are VERY powerful (broken? Maybe, but that's another discussion.) in C3C.
Amazing where different reading and testing have taken us, T-hawk. I still can't really do the Cntl-R trick right and you didn't know about armies. Funny world.
Arathorn
To my knowledge, this hasn't been explicitly re-verified by the programmers, but it was said in the initial announcements and a few tests (couple thousand iterations only) indicated that this was indeed the rule. Armies are VERY powerful (broken? Maybe, but that's another discussion.) in C3C.
Amazing where different reading and testing have taken us, T-hawk. I still can't really do the Cntl-R trick right and you didn't know about armies. Funny world.
Arathorn
T-hawk
Transcend
Charis, you know you're up here, right? Finish your Epic 39 report, of course, but give us an indication here when you can.
T-hawk
Arathorn - justed
Jabah - skip for this round
Charis << UP NOW
Speaker << On Deck
T-hawk
Arathorn - just
edJabah - skip for this round
Charis << UP NOW
Speaker << On Deck
Charis
Realms Beyond
Hehe, I was typing up a good chunk of the report and hit the forum to take a break. I wanted to get some writing in before the wifely plans tonight, so I can finish before 2am or so.
Got it, feasing in a different way, thanks.
Arathorn - thanks for the exact formula. My knowledge there was intermediate. And ctrl-R, as T-Hawk has seen when he follows me, it's now so standard for me it feels weird just to hit 'r'. I think one reason is that I go through unit moves so slowly and trying to get the order right that I've always reached the point where any 'automated' moves occur long before I've finished all my unit moves, so having a road finish *mid-turn* is a big "woo!" quite often. It also helps on the hand-off turn to avoid the wonder "Now was he moving through this square somewhere, planning to road, or planning to mine?"
Here's a new one I just learned - wonder if you know this.
If when you get a new tech which allows a new unit upgrade, if you scroll-ahead, go to city-screen and hit 'Update' on a unit, they will be updated *and* have a move on the first round of the tech.
Scroll-ahead haters feel free to ignore or add that to your gripe list. Efficiency experts rejoice Charis
T-hawk
Transcend
Yup. That also works if a city completes a barracks - units sitting in that city with movement remaining from the previous turn can be upgraded from the city screen when you zoom there upon the barracks build, and they'll have their movement refreshed at the end of the production cycle. In Epic 39, I actually built a barracks in a city AND got Rep Parts on the same turn to do that with artillery upgrades. 
Regarding Ctrl-R, it also works to just hold down "w" to cycle through all your units until any workers on Ctrl-R get activated for that turn and do their thing. Also important for Ctrl-R is making sure to turn OFF "Cancel Orders on Enemy Unit", otherwise the workers will get interrupted and lose their orders and progress if an enemy unit comes near.
Yes, I too go through unit moves slowly to find the most optimal possibility for each. Birds of a feather, we are.
Regarding Ctrl-R, it also works to just hold down "w" to cycle through all your units until any workers on Ctrl-R get activated for that turn and do their thing. Also important for Ctrl-R is making sure to turn OFF "Cancel Orders on Enemy Unit", otherwise the workers will get interrupted and lose their orders and progress if an enemy unit comes near.
Yes, I too go through unit moves slowly to find the most optimal possibility for each. Birds of a feather, we are.
Charis
Realms Beyond
Ok, so as to not leave you guys in the dark, here's a brief update.
I did finish the RPCiv Epic 39, and (gasp) even got the report done on time
I've got part way through Sid and will finish it and post tonight (whether it's a full 10 or not). There was a very interesting event, the appearance of a shocking new unit, and good progress so far by high tension.
After that, next up will be the Cordova game, then the Rus, then RBC8 Koreans. No doubt Franks will come up before the last one there is done (Is there a 'feast' smiley icon?! Maybe this...
)
I must say these 'constant war' scenarios are both a lot of fun and a LOT more time consuming than anticipated
Charis
-- EDIT - Turns 0 to 5 here, 6-10 in next post
Ok, we're at war with Abbasids (VERY real), Swedes (phony? They sneak attacked us
on T-Hawk's watch) and with the Magyars (). Somehow, the Bulgars never did sneak attack.
Magyars will likely seek peace in 5, still can't talk to Sweden. The biggest recent
factor is the start of a GA just 2 turns ago. Actually, Magyars will talk and give us
5 workers for peace. Alliances? With France and Bulgars vs Magyars, both 5 turns left,
and with Turks vs Abbasids for 16 turns. We're in for the long haul vs Abbasids,
which makes sense. NO one has Map Making yet. We'll want to be able to buy in on that
quickly when it's available, and get a lot for working the map around. It could happen
on this watch.
We're researching Lost Roman Secrets (en route to cataphracts) - min sci in 31?
This turn still needs MM and diplo, so I start there.
Germany will pay 13gpt for silks (pure per-turn, so no bad consequences). Eep?! Germany
is our top competitor for VP? I don't think so then! Peace with Bulgars is on SAME DEAL
as alliance with Magyars. Not only can we not take peace early with Magyars, but if
the Bulgars are forced to, they will be forced into war with us. Let's hope not.
No deals available this turn. I look up North and... the Magyars can only send SPEARS
against us?! Odd!
MM? Minor problem at Constantinople. We're at 49spt, no excess found, and one tile
being worked. Plains is getting irrigation, when it needs the mine to hit 50spt.
Actually though, that matters not until Smithing is available. With no other possible
tile to work to get that 50th shield, I do swap his task. Until later, Const gives a
mined hill to Adrianople and puts it up to 10spt instead of 9. Most queue orders look
great, I just swap Naissus from temple to Town Hall and Dyrrachium (not on river) from
granary to town hall. Corinth can swap from 0 shield to 2-shield-in-GA tiles to
get a second shield out of it, greatly speeding the town hall there.
[0] 1005 AD - I do make an army out of Justinian. With the Abbasid war in full force
and long term, a 3-MDI army will be very nice, and should help us get a second leader
for a later Cav army. IBT - We watch green and yellow battle and bang heads. Good.
In annoying news, Bulgars declare war on the Turks, one ally fighting another. Not good.
12 Mag spears move next to two of our cities. BTW, wow, that was a long IBT.
Abbadis curragh sails in range of undefended Athens. Two white horses climb the hill
in range of a worker.
[1] 1008 - Oh MAN that Green ship blocking us is going to be annoying.
Athens rushes a cheap spear. Justinian makes an army in our capital, and we add
two MDI, third shortly. Adrianople starts blacksmith. Herakliea would but it's 15spt
is very nice for proto-cav (horse) production. No deals/tech this turn.
I must say, our little cats are quite effective vs archers and spears.
At Veliki we do pretty well, and even Alexius promotes, vs a reg warrior.
Likewise, tnx to bombardment, Ruse does well. Down south I pick off two Abby
horses and two archers, but have to leave two reg warriors exposed.
IBT - Check THIS out! Up North I had pulled an elite horse into Veliki, a rax
town, to heal. Out of Belgorod charges an unexpected horse that can reach our
city. He not only loses to the 1hp defender, but he creates a defensive MGL,
Belisarius! (Chants of better to be lucky than good arise!) The AI shows it
hyperaggression, as a Magyar hurt 2hp reg spear attacks our lose archer and wins!
At Athens an archer is dropped off. The warriors are picked off by horses out of
fog, and worse, an *Ansar*. Is it their starting one, or start of a flood?!
[2] 1011 - I really can't see why if one MDI army is good, two wouldn't be better.
Belasarius forms another and takes on one for now, soon three. The Abby units
are scattered, they actually disassembled a small horse stack. So we lay down the
smack liberally vs weak defenders. In a more crucial battle, our first MDI army can
reach and hit the Ansar, and it seems worthwhile to do so. We win, and end pretty
strong and on a hill.
IBT - No Magyar attacks, and only slight movement. It's winding down up there.
Oh my, each interturn gets more bizarre than the next. Down south an Abby horse
loses to and promotes our spear, then... huh? Something invisible is attacking the
spear and beats it?! EEP! Assassins?!?! Indeed, two of our workers are then captured
by something invisible.
How the @#$% do we deal with these things? "See inviso"
is miles away. At least they're not fast and I can 'move' (attack) onto their now known
squares. One last oddness - are we at war with Cordova? An Ansar steps next to our
border. Oh wait, hehe, it's a settler pair.
[3] 1014 - Varna's town hall is done, now 10spt. Assassination is after Jihad, so why
are there not a lot more Ansars here? Assassin is 5.1.1, so once located, they're
easily killed. They're seen by other assassins, spies and inquisitors. Ah, I see,
our own fourth tech, "Intelligence Operations" produces Spies who can see inviso and
is 2.2.1 ATAR (good assassin killers) Sweden will talk, btw, but wants 9gpt. Not now.
IBT - Assassin make one awful and one great choice in IBT. They waste a surprise attack on
a long warrior who recaptured the stolen workers. Then they attacked... our army!!
We turn red then di... er, divert to the hills in retreat! (phew!) That's it, this
guy with two MDI runs home immediately for his third. The second army will next turn
likewise hold off til full. I think it will need at least 11-12 hp to be safe, unsure.
[4] 1017 - We kill the invis assassins (good thing they're movement 1)
Ya know, we really need to get down our own tree quicker. I try to talk reason with
the Prince of Rus. 100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns might just get the tech.
It does We start Cataphracts just in case he never researches it.
IBT - A few Magyar spears move into our territory. Swedes request an audience.
He suggests we pay 85g+4gpt. His best price is 8gpt. No thanks for now Inge.
No units of his seen. Not best turn in Abbyland. Archer goes red but kills our
spear. Assassin kills a horse, ends on hill. Abby founds New Samaria just south of
us over the hills, next to old ruins. An Ansar shows up from that direction.
[5] 1020 - There are no new techs, no new deals, just lots of peace treaties and
alliances ending, so we cancel/renew as follows: Peace renegotiations: Germany
pays worker+16g+2gpt. Cordova pays 220g. Burgundy pays 42g+6gpt. Castille pays
87g+6gpt. Alliances: Cancel ally with France vs Magyars, cancel Bulgars ally vs
Magyars and RoP. Remaining deal: Ally of Turks vs Abby for 11 more turns.
We're now free to pursue peace with Magyars when we want, and free to give Swedes
7gpt if we want their peace. But first... two elite horsemen get to hit bombarded
yellow spears. We win but nothing more. Vet sword beats another spear and promotes.
Horse beats spear. Down south, horse beats Ansar. Spear beats hurt Assassin.
Our units are valiant, but trading units is NOT a good idea vs Sid (although letting
Assassins attack instead of defend is far worse) Abbasids would pay 100g for peace
but the Turk alliance doesn't allow that.
Any reason not to take peace now with Magyars. We need *everything* down South
and he'll offer 5 workers, so that sounds acceptable. I also pay the small amount
to Swedes. The downside if they buy in another war or dogpile would be *far* worse.
We're now at 562g+75gpt, quite nice. I want to speed up Cav and Intel, and unsure if
Rus will come thru, we would like to kick up self-research on it, but can't get past
the min-sci discovery rate even at deficit!? The Bulgars are furious with us for no
good reason, and I hope those two continue to beat themselves senseless. Glad I checked
happiness, the end of wars left some cities unpleased. Actually, lux to 10.
IBT - Magyar and Castille come to peace. We let the Bulgar peace renew, and they
come to peace with Magyars (oh well). Cordova lands an archer next to a well defended
city. Oh come now... they have other forces in area not near us. Fighting someone?
*Nothing* from Abbasids, zilch. Fatimids start Domesday.
(continued)
I did finish the RPCiv Epic 39, and (gasp) even got the report done on time
I've got part way through Sid and will finish it and post tonight (whether it's a full 10 or not). There was a very interesting event, the appearance of a shocking new unit, and good progress so far by high tension.
After that, next up will be the Cordova game, then the Rus, then RBC8 Koreans. No doubt Franks will come up before the last one there is done (Is there a 'feast' smiley icon?! Maybe this...
)I must say these 'constant war' scenarios are both a lot of fun and a LOT more time consuming than anticipated
Charis
-- EDIT - Turns 0 to 5 here, 6-10 in next post
Ok, we're at war with Abbasids (VERY real), Swedes (phony? They sneak attacked us
on T-Hawk's watch) and with the Magyars (). Somehow, the Bulgars never did sneak attack.
Magyars will likely seek peace in 5, still can't talk to Sweden. The biggest recent
factor is the start of a GA just 2 turns ago. Actually, Magyars will talk and give us
5 workers for peace. Alliances? With France and Bulgars vs Magyars, both 5 turns left,
and with Turks vs Abbasids for 16 turns. We're in for the long haul vs Abbasids,
which makes sense. NO one has Map Making yet. We'll want to be able to buy in on that
quickly when it's available, and get a lot for working the map around. It could happen
on this watch.
We're researching Lost Roman Secrets (en route to cataphracts) - min sci in 31?
This turn still needs MM and diplo, so I start there.
Germany will pay 13gpt for silks (pure per-turn, so no bad consequences). Eep?! Germany
is our top competitor for VP? I don't think so then! Peace with Bulgars is on SAME DEAL
as alliance with Magyars. Not only can we not take peace early with Magyars, but if
the Bulgars are forced to, they will be forced into war with us. Let's hope not.
No deals available this turn. I look up North and... the Magyars can only send SPEARS
against us?! Odd!
MM? Minor problem at Constantinople. We're at 49spt, no excess found, and one tile
being worked. Plains is getting irrigation, when it needs the mine to hit 50spt.
Actually though, that matters not until Smithing is available. With no other possible
tile to work to get that 50th shield, I do swap his task. Until later, Const gives a
mined hill to Adrianople and puts it up to 10spt instead of 9. Most queue orders look
great, I just swap Naissus from temple to Town Hall and Dyrrachium (not on river) from
granary to town hall. Corinth can swap from 0 shield to 2-shield-in-GA tiles to
get a second shield out of it, greatly speeding the town hall there.
[0] 1005 AD - I do make an army out of Justinian. With the Abbasid war in full force
and long term, a 3-MDI army will be very nice, and should help us get a second leader
for a later Cav army. IBT - We watch green and yellow battle and bang heads. Good.
In annoying news, Bulgars declare war on the Turks, one ally fighting another. Not good.
12 Mag spears move next to two of our cities. BTW, wow, that was a long IBT.
Abbadis curragh sails in range of undefended Athens. Two white horses climb the hill
in range of a worker.
[1] 1008 - Oh MAN that Green ship blocking us is going to be annoying.
Athens rushes a cheap spear. Justinian makes an army in our capital, and we add
two MDI, third shortly. Adrianople starts blacksmith. Herakliea would but it's 15spt
is very nice for proto-cav (horse) production. No deals/tech this turn.
I must say, our little cats are quite effective vs archers and spears.
At Veliki we do pretty well, and even Alexius promotes, vs a reg warrior.
Likewise, tnx to bombardment, Ruse does well. Down south I pick off two Abby
horses and two archers, but have to leave two reg warriors exposed.
IBT - Check THIS out! Up North I had pulled an elite horse into Veliki, a rax
town, to heal. Out of Belgorod charges an unexpected horse that can reach our
city. He not only loses to the 1hp defender, but he creates a defensive MGL,
Belisarius!
(Chants of better to be lucky than good arise!) The AI shows ithyperaggression, as a Magyar hurt 2hp reg spear attacks our lose archer and wins!
At Athens an archer is dropped off. The warriors are picked off by horses out of
fog, and worse, an *Ansar*. Is it their starting one, or start of a flood?!
[2] 1011 - I really can't see why if one MDI army is good, two wouldn't be better.
Belasarius forms another and takes on one for now, soon three. The Abby units
are scattered, they actually disassembled a small horse stack. So we lay down the
smack liberally vs weak defenders. In a more crucial battle, our first MDI army can
reach and hit the Ansar, and it seems worthwhile to do so. We win, and end pretty
strong and on a hill.
IBT - No Magyar attacks, and only slight movement. It's winding down up there.
Oh my, each interturn gets more bizarre than the next. Down south an Abby horse
loses to and promotes our spear, then... huh? Something invisible is attacking the
spear and beats it?! EEP! Assassins?!?! Indeed, two of our workers are then captured
by something invisible.
How the @#$% do we deal with these things? "See inviso"is miles away. At least they're not fast and I can 'move' (attack) onto their now known
squares. One last oddness - are we at war with Cordova? An Ansar steps next to our
border. Oh wait, hehe, it's a settler pair.
[3] 1014 - Varna's town hall is done, now 10spt. Assassination is after Jihad, so why
are there not a lot more Ansars here? Assassin is 5.1.1, so once located, they're
easily killed. They're seen by other assassins, spies and inquisitors. Ah, I see,
our own fourth tech, "Intelligence Operations" produces Spies who can see inviso and
is 2.2.1 ATAR (good assassin killers) Sweden will talk, btw, but wants 9gpt. Not now.
IBT - Assassin make one awful and one great choice in IBT. They waste a surprise attack on
a long warrior who recaptured the stolen workers. Then they attacked... our army!!
We turn red then di... er, divert to the hills in retreat! (phew!) That's it, this
guy with two MDI runs home immediately for his third. The second army will next turn
likewise hold off til full. I think it will need at least 11-12 hp to be safe, unsure.
[4] 1017 - We kill the invis assassins (good thing they're movement 1)
Ya know, we really need to get down our own tree quicker. I try to talk reason with
the Prince of Rus. 100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns might just get the tech.
It does
We start Cataphracts just in case he never researches it. IBT - A few Magyar spears move into our territory. Swedes request an audience.
He suggests we pay 85g+4gpt. His best price is 8gpt. No thanks for now Inge.
No units of his seen. Not best turn in Abbyland. Archer goes red but kills our
spear. Assassin kills a horse, ends on hill. Abby founds New Samaria just south of
us over the hills, next to old ruins. An Ansar shows up from that direction.
[5] 1020 - There are no new techs, no new deals, just lots of peace treaties and
alliances ending, so we cancel/renew as follows: Peace renegotiations: Germany
pays worker+16g+2gpt. Cordova pays 220g. Burgundy pays 42g+6gpt. Castille pays
87g+6gpt. Alliances: Cancel ally with France vs Magyars, cancel Bulgars ally vs
Magyars and RoP. Remaining deal: Ally of Turks vs Abby for 11 more turns.
We're now free to pursue peace with Magyars when we want, and free to give Swedes
7gpt if we want their peace. But first... two elite horsemen get to hit bombarded
yellow spears. We win but nothing more. Vet sword beats another spear and promotes.
Horse beats spear. Down south, horse beats Ansar. Spear beats hurt Assassin.
Our units are valiant, but trading units is NOT a good idea vs Sid (although letting
Assassins attack instead of defend is far worse) Abbasids would pay 100g for peace
but the Turk alliance doesn't allow that.
Any reason not to take peace now with Magyars. We need *everything* down South
and he'll offer 5 workers, so that sounds acceptable. I also pay the small amount
to Swedes. The downside if they buy in another war or dogpile would be *far* worse.
We're now at 562g+75gpt, quite nice. I want to speed up Cav and Intel, and unsure if
Rus will come thru, we would like to kick up self-research on it, but can't get past
the min-sci discovery rate even at deficit!? The Bulgars are furious with us for no
good reason, and I hope those two continue to beat themselves senseless. Glad I checked
happiness, the end of wars left some cities unpleased. Actually, lux to 10.
IBT - Magyar and Castille come to peace. We let the Bulgar peace renew, and they
come to peace with Magyars (oh well). Cordova lands an archer next to a well defended
city. Oh come now... they have other forces in area not near us. Fighting someone?
*Nothing* from Abbasids, zilch. Fatimids start Domesday.
(continued)
Charis
Realms Beyond
(see post above for initial thoughts on the turn and turns 0-5)
[6] 1023 - We have a 59gpt tech deal active with Cordova, and so give them the boot
warning. The arrogant fools declare war on us. We slay the archer, promoting and their
(reg) ansar-settler pair is conveniently next to catapults+elite horse. We attack and...
get two slaves. Income now +111gpt even at 10% lux. There is now the option of going
full at HC, but that would still only be 22 turns. There's one more action I'm
tempted to take but will leave it up to our next leader. That Bulgar Curragh is
*still* next to Constantinople. They're probably idiotic enough to declare war if
I give the boot, but keep that in mind. If it were not there I could sink a Cordovan
ship this turn.
We move to attack a 1hp archer and find we're actually attacking an assassin.
Our horse promotes to elite on this. We attack again. ANOTHER one, horse wins.
Basil tries and finds the archer, promoting to vet. Our MDI army beats a spear
and moves up toward New Sidon. Alas, with sneak attack units near, he can't exactly
protect a stack that moves with him too well. Hmmm.... fresh war, I check lux and
sure enough the new happiness lets us drop to 0%. Now at +124gpt, the leading
economy in the world!?!
IBT - Those two Cordovan curraghs drop sword and archer next to Constantinople.
We have an MDI, horse and the about-to-be-healthy army right in place
In other news, France declares war on Turks. Could this be the start of random
invisible-unit bug wars popping up all over?? Around New Sidon their archer-spear
pair I thought would intercept the army turn tail and run away into the fog????
Can this mean the Turks are kicking Abby tail and they find it better to go there??
Warna of Poland finishes the Domesday book. They have HRE too, but otherwise don't
seem to be too strong - odd. (Ah, they lack horses and lux, too bad for knight lovers)
[7] 1026 - Ancyra just finished town hall, it's at 12spt and will be higher once
it has one more MP. It starts a rax, although a smith soon would be nice. Pliska
also finishes town hall and hits 10spt! Varna continues to knock out a spear per
two as it is also at 2spt. (Err... actually it better slip a rax in).
Our Dromon rains fire on the hapless uninvited Cordovans. Elite horse and elite MDI
rev up their engines and... win. You know, with a good concentration of forces up north
who are just about to head South, there's not a better time to see if the Bulgar ship will
leave. For a change they show intelligence, and withdraw it to neutral territory.
Our army reaches New Sidon and kills a spear. IBT - Just when I was wondering if the
Abby wanted to just rollover and die, an assasin takes out a spear moving up towards
New Sidon and they move a SOD right behind New Sidon consisting of: 6 spear, 4 archer
and just one sword. Ok good mostly defense. I wonder what the city itself has?
[8] 1029 - Corinth finishes town hall, although it's still 80% corrupt, pulling 3spt.
Smyrna finishes hall for 8spt. Ah, finally Map Making arrives. Who has it, and who
doesn't with cash to buy in? Those with it include: Germany, Abbasids, French,
Danes (!), Turks and Swedes. Those who do not have it never will - they have a
combined total of about 2gpt between the rest of the nations. 8-\
Those who have it lack nothing we have, except perhaps a lux and an unsure trade
route. Even with so many folks knowing it, it's not for sale anywhere. Sigh, ok fine,
that's where having a 900g bankroll helps. Who to risk angering? I know, the French.
Theo goes for a little chat with her, and while Joanie steps out to go potty,
we steal her maps. (It's tempting to divert to Western Church while it's visible
on the screen. If ANY civ should know the techs of ALL branches, SURELY it is the
Eastern Roman Empire, no?!) We go on a binge - this theme is now stuck in our
head and cannot be removed - and map sales will soon help our econ even more.
With Map Making we're now in the Next age. While markets and pikes would be nice,
our biggest problem by *far* is corruption, so after Heavy cav we'll want Divine
Right. If Kievan Rus would just research HCav, we could get it for map making.
**BUG** On entering the new age, it *automatically* swapped us to a new age research
and we lost our progress on Heavy Cav. 8-\ It's just 4 turns thankfully, sheesh!
Ummm... ok, that's why we can't buy tech. We betrayed our 'friends' the Danes??
It's been too long, how/when did that happen? Did I break an alliance with them?
I look back at an earlier save to see, and no, same betrayal comment at the start of
my turn in 1005. Probably old news, but it hampers maps transactions slightly here.
We trade TM's, usually throwing in a few gold. We also see many civs still lack many
communications! Rus for example don't know English, Cordova, Burgundy, Castille,
Celts or Fatimids. France will take gpt - ah yes, she's at war with Danes. We get her
TM for Silks. Turks will take gpt, so we trade TMs with him throwing in cash and us gpt.
Holy cow... the Turks are HUGE!!!! They could be a problem later, especially with Sipahi.
After the TM trade around comes Western Church to get some new low end (cheap???) techs
on the table. Monastacism from Germany for WM+6g. Feudalism is not cheap. We get
Bulgar WM for Lost Secrets (maybe they'll get HC tech for us?), and Celt WM for CoL.
To Poland I give Map Making for Feudalism+WM+2 workers. No one has Chivalry.
Sweden has the best world map, wanting 90g more for it. Germany, Poland, France and
ourselves have traded world map. No one else can afford it.
Hmm, our capital could use a Manor (+50% tax) and a Monastery is half price as we're
scientific.
At New Sidon army kills a spear, and now an unfortified one shows up. We're golden
if that's the last one before the 6 spears standing behind the city can enter.
We attack and, yes! That's it. It's a good forward city to hold, and on fresh water.
As their attackers are few, let's hold it. Our elite horse hits the hidden assassin
who killed our spear. New Samaria is size 2, so we send 4 now-healed horses there.
Our second army is en route to New Sidon. IBT - Nothing!! The white SoD leaves!!
I was scared my worst fear, that in addition to what I saw were a dozen assassins
[9] 1032 - Adriannople's Blacksmith is complete and it's now 20spt city!
Our Dromons cut down the two Cordovan curraghs. At New Samaria we kill two
spears and nothing is showing? An assassin eh? We hear his death scream and
the city is ours. Near New Sidon several elite attacks, no ldrs. Roaming MDI army
kills a spear then heads for the mtns. Nope, assassin is there. At least two since
we win but do not move up. Other army doesn't want to let it live and attacks.
Shoot, at least one more up there?! WM buys 3 workers from Magyars.
IBT - Assassin retreats our horse between New Samaria and Septum, and another one
captures the worker next to New Sidon - no other attacks. More troops shift west.
[10] 1035 - We move to recapture the worker, and run into an assassin and kill it.
Repeat from a different angle, sheesh, another one. Those were both elite horses.
It would have been hilarious if my only offensive MGL this turn would have come from
accidently colliding with an invisible unit! Army heads to high ground, and kills
an assassin on the mtn.
Darn the alliance with Turks!? Perhaps, likely even, it has split their forces,
but its time is up. We made nice gains in south, capturing two cities and getting
a decent kill ratio, but the number of assassins is very much on the rise, and they
have a decent stack on high ground a few turns away from our small Asia minor cities.
If Turks take peace, or when in 6 rounds the alliance is up, I would strongly
suggest taking peace, consolidating our gains, getting roads in place, a few
temples, and one settler perhaps to fill a large gap in the middle. Then don't
fight the Abbassids again until we have spies - uber 2.2.1 ATAR units with see inviso,
all for 20 shields! They would pay 96g+12gpt for peace now.
France gives 20g+6gpt for WM. Turks and Poland almost that much. These sales get me
just where I want to be, in steal range for Arab Learning from TUrks. It's almost a
win-win situation, being able to escape the alliance and war if we fail, and with
more VP and a new tech plus others open, if it succeeds. Tis the latter though.
Our Fatimid friends will give Jihad+WM+1g for Map Making. I check to see if we fear
their assassins, but no their at Ansar stage. So we make that deal. The Turks as our
allies are accepting gpt for tech, so consider whether you want to buy Assassination
for 24gpt from the Turks. *OR* when you make peace with Abbadids, it looks like they
will give the Assassination tech for peace and just 4gpt. You know, non-Muslim
nations including us *can* actually make Assassins. THESE GUYS could see other
Assasins! We'll get that MUCH sooner than our own Spies. An assassin army
would have blitz stealth attack and great attack, but very vulnerable on defense.
Once we do get the Assasination tech, Medicine will be insanely cheap. (Don't ask why,
but from other games it just will be.) Just another reason for Turks to stop fighting
Abbys soon and let us come to peace and get that tech for peace.
Here's the Southern front:
Notes:
- Due to the bug we're not heavy into the HvyCav tech if you want to switch it
to Divine Right or some other one.
- Turks lack horses, otherwise they WOULD have Sipahi right now.
- We still have a few empty cities which is an awful idea with Assasins around
(though they'll chew up and spit out a lone spear anyway), but we really had no
spare defenders this turn.
- Assassins don't seem to want to hit a 11-12 hp army, but if you get it hurt, look out
unless it's on high ground.
- Cordova won't talk yet.
- GA has 8 turns left.
- Sweden has Viking Sagas, fwiw. (tis not dirt cheap for us)
- We've built up an offense of 2 MDI armies, 3 more MDI, and now 10 horses.
- We're tops in VP with 6145 pts, ahead of Turks with 4525, Germany 4450, Kiev Rus 4000,
Danes 3435 and several around 2800-3100: Abbasids, Magyars and Burgundy. Long haul left.
RBC13A Byzatines 1035AD
Roster
T-hawk <-- ON Deck
Arathorn
Jabah
Charis
Speaker <-- UP
Good luck!
Charis
[6] 1023 - We have a 59gpt tech deal active with Cordova, and so give them the boot
warning. The arrogant fools declare war on us. We slay the archer, promoting and their
(reg) ansar-settler pair is conveniently next to catapults+elite horse. We attack and...
get two slaves. Income now +111gpt even at 10% lux. There is now the option of going
full at HC, but that would still only be 22 turns. There's one more action I'm
tempted to take but will leave it up to our next leader. That Bulgar Curragh is
*still* next to Constantinople. They're probably idiotic enough to declare war if
I give the boot, but keep that in mind. If it were not there I could sink a Cordovan
ship this turn.
We move to attack a 1hp archer and find we're actually attacking an assassin.
Our horse promotes to elite on this. We attack again. ANOTHER one, horse wins.
Basil tries and finds the archer, promoting to vet. Our MDI army beats a spear
and moves up toward New Sidon. Alas, with sneak attack units near, he can't exactly
protect a stack that moves with him too well. Hmmm.... fresh war, I check lux and
sure enough the new happiness lets us drop to 0%. Now at +124gpt, the leading
economy in the world!?!
IBT - Those two Cordovan curraghs drop sword and archer next to Constantinople.
We have an MDI, horse and the about-to-be-healthy army right in place
In other news, France declares war on Turks. Could this be the start of random
invisible-unit bug wars popping up all over?? Around New Sidon their archer-spear
pair I thought would intercept the army turn tail and run away into the fog????
Can this mean the Turks are kicking Abby tail and they find it better to go there??
Warna of Poland finishes the Domesday book. They have HRE too, but otherwise don't
seem to be too strong - odd. (Ah, they lack horses and lux, too bad for knight lovers)
[7] 1026 - Ancyra just finished town hall, it's at 12spt and will be higher once
it has one more MP. It starts a rax, although a smith soon would be nice. Pliska
also finishes town hall and hits 10spt! Varna continues to knock out a spear per
two as it is also at 2spt. (Err... actually it better slip a rax in).
Our Dromon rains fire on the hapless uninvited Cordovans. Elite horse and elite MDI
rev up their engines and... win. You know, with a good concentration of forces up north
who are just about to head South, there's not a better time to see if the Bulgar ship will
leave. For a change they show intelligence, and withdraw it to neutral territory.
Our army reaches New Sidon and kills a spear. IBT - Just when I was wondering if the
Abby wanted to just rollover and die, an assasin takes out a spear moving up towards
New Sidon and they move a SOD right behind New Sidon consisting of: 6 spear, 4 archer
and just one sword. Ok good mostly defense. I wonder what the city itself has?
[8] 1029 - Corinth finishes town hall, although it's still 80% corrupt, pulling 3spt.
Smyrna finishes hall for 8spt. Ah, finally Map Making arrives. Who has it, and who
doesn't with cash to buy in? Those with it include: Germany, Abbasids, French,
Danes (!), Turks and Swedes. Those who do not have it never will - they have a
combined total of about 2gpt between the rest of the nations. 8-\
Those who have it lack nothing we have, except perhaps a lux and an unsure trade
route. Even with so many folks knowing it, it's not for sale anywhere. Sigh, ok fine,
that's where having a 900g bankroll helps. Who to risk angering? I know, the French.
Theo goes for a little chat with her, and while Joanie steps out to go potty,
we steal her maps. (It's tempting to divert to Western Church while it's visible
on the screen. If ANY civ should know the techs of ALL branches, SURELY it is the
Eastern Roman Empire, no?!) We go on a binge - this theme is now stuck in our
head and cannot be removed - and map sales will soon help our econ even more.
With Map Making we're now in the Next age. While markets and pikes would be nice,
our biggest problem by *far* is corruption, so after Heavy cav we'll want Divine
Right. If Kievan Rus would just research HCav, we could get it for map making.
**BUG** On entering the new age, it *automatically* swapped us to a new age research
and we lost our progress on Heavy Cav. 8-\ It's just 4 turns thankfully, sheesh!
Ummm... ok, that's why we can't buy tech. We betrayed our 'friends' the Danes??
It's been too long, how/when did that happen? Did I break an alliance with them?
I look back at an earlier save to see, and no, same betrayal comment at the start of
my turn in 1005. Probably old news, but it hampers maps transactions slightly here.
We trade TM's, usually throwing in a few gold. We also see many civs still lack many
communications! Rus for example don't know English, Cordova, Burgundy, Castille,
Celts or Fatimids. France will take gpt - ah yes, she's at war with Danes. We get her
TM for Silks. Turks will take gpt, so we trade TMs with him throwing in cash and us gpt.
Holy cow... the Turks are HUGE!!!! They could be a problem later, especially with Sipahi.
After the TM trade around comes Western Church to get some new low end (cheap???) techs
on the table. Monastacism from Germany for WM+6g. Feudalism is not cheap. We get
Bulgar WM for Lost Secrets (maybe they'll get HC tech for us?), and Celt WM for CoL.
To Poland I give Map Making for Feudalism+WM+2 workers. No one has Chivalry.
Sweden has the best world map, wanting 90g more for it. Germany, Poland, France and
ourselves have traded world map. No one else can afford it.
Hmm, our capital could use a Manor (+50% tax) and a Monastery is half price as we're
scientific.
At New Sidon army kills a spear, and now an unfortified one shows up. We're golden
if that's the last one before the 6 spears standing behind the city can enter.
We attack and, yes! That's it. It's a good forward city to hold, and on fresh water.
As their attackers are few, let's hold it. Our elite horse hits the hidden assassin
who killed our spear. New Samaria is size 2, so we send 4 now-healed horses there.
Our second army is en route to New Sidon. IBT - Nothing!! The white SoD leaves!!
I was scared my worst fear, that in addition to what I saw were a dozen assassins
[9] 1032 - Adriannople's Blacksmith is complete and it's now 20spt city!
Our Dromons cut down the two Cordovan curraghs. At New Samaria we kill two
spears and nothing is showing? An assassin eh? We hear his death scream and
the city is ours. Near New Sidon several elite attacks, no ldrs. Roaming MDI army
kills a spear then heads for the mtns. Nope, assassin is there. At least two since
we win but do not move up. Other army doesn't want to let it live and attacks.
Shoot, at least one more up there?! WM buys 3 workers from Magyars.
IBT - Assassin retreats our horse between New Samaria and Septum, and another one
captures the worker next to New Sidon - no other attacks. More troops shift west.
[10] 1035 - We move to recapture the worker, and run into an assassin and kill it.
Repeat from a different angle, sheesh, another one. Those were both elite horses.
It would have been hilarious if my only offensive MGL this turn would have come from
accidently colliding with an invisible unit! Army heads to high ground, and kills
an assassin on the mtn.
Darn the alliance with Turks!? Perhaps, likely even, it has split their forces,
but its time is up. We made nice gains in south, capturing two cities and getting
a decent kill ratio, but the number of assassins is very much on the rise, and they
have a decent stack on high ground a few turns away from our small Asia minor cities.
If Turks take peace, or when in 6 rounds the alliance is up, I would strongly
suggest taking peace, consolidating our gains, getting roads in place, a few
temples, and one settler perhaps to fill a large gap in the middle. Then don't
fight the Abbassids again until we have spies - uber 2.2.1 ATAR units with see inviso,
all for 20 shields! They would pay 96g+12gpt for peace now.
France gives 20g+6gpt for WM. Turks and Poland almost that much. These sales get me
just where I want to be, in steal range for Arab Learning from TUrks. It's almost a
win-win situation, being able to escape the alliance and war if we fail, and with
more VP and a new tech plus others open, if it succeeds. Tis the latter though.
Our Fatimid friends will give Jihad+WM+1g for Map Making. I check to see if we fear
their assassins, but no their at Ansar stage. So we make that deal. The Turks as our
allies are accepting gpt for tech, so consider whether you want to buy Assassination
for 24gpt from the Turks. *OR* when you make peace with Abbadids, it looks like they
will give the Assassination tech for peace and just 4gpt. You know, non-Muslim
nations including us *can* actually make Assassins. THESE GUYS could see other
Assasins! We'll get that MUCH sooner than our own Spies. An assassin army
would have blitz stealth attack and great attack, but very vulnerable on defense.
Once we do get the Assasination tech, Medicine will be insanely cheap. (Don't ask why,
but from other games it just will be.) Just another reason for Turks to stop fighting
Abbys soon and let us come to peace and get that tech for peace.
Here's the Southern front:
Notes:
- Due to the bug we're not heavy into the HvyCav tech if you want to switch it
to Divine Right or some other one.
- Turks lack horses, otherwise they WOULD have Sipahi right now.
- We still have a few empty cities which is an awful idea with Assasins around
(though they'll chew up and spit out a lone spear anyway), but we really had no
spare defenders this turn.
- Assassins don't seem to want to hit a 11-12 hp army, but if you get it hurt, look out
unless it's on high ground.
- Cordova won't talk yet.
- GA has 8 turns left.
- Sweden has Viking Sagas, fwiw. (tis not dirt cheap for us)
- We've built up an offense of 2 MDI armies, 3 more MDI, and now 10 horses.
- We're tops in VP with 6145 pts, ahead of Turks with 4525, Germany 4450, Kiev Rus 4000,
Danes 3435 and several around 2800-3100: Abbasids, Magyars and Burgundy. Long haul left.
RBC13A Byzatines 1035AD
Roster
T-hawk <-- ON Deck
Arathorn
Jabah
Charis
Speaker <-- UP
Good luck!
Charis
T-hawk
Transcend
Sounds like quite a ride! Great work on the military and tech fronts! Picked up the entire Muslim and Christian tech trees on the cheap!
But there's always a
... 
Peace with Bulgars is on SAME DEAL as alliance with Magyars.
I don't think so. You signed peace with the Bulgars during 960 AD on your turn before handing over. I then signed alliance with them after I picked up the game. The peace and alliance were on the same game turn, but not in the same deal.
Germany will pay 13gpt for silks (pure per-turn, so no bad consequences).
Aaugh - don't tell me even you are making this mistake now?
If the player is exporting ANY resource for ANY reason - regardless of what the other civ pays for it, even if it was a gift - and the route breaks for any reason other than the recipient civ declaring war on you, you lose your reputation. ANY resource export. This just happened in the Norway game, where we sold resources for gpt to the Turks, then the route broke and we did lose our rep. Good thing you didn't make this deal.
100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns might just get the tech. It does
Could you be a bit less cryptic? Reading that gives me no idea whether you actually bought the tech or how much you paid.
Please tell me you didn't just pay Sid monopoly cost for Lost Roman Secrets?
Peace renegotiations: Germany pays worker+16g+2gpt. Cordova pays 220g. Burgundy pays 42g+6gpt. Castille pays
87g+6gpt.
Wow, nice dealing there.
we would like to kick up self-research on it, but can't get past the min-sci discovery rate even at deficit!?
Welcome to Sid.
We betrayed our 'friends' the Danes?? It's been too long, how/when did that happen?
I have no idea either. Looking back through past reports, nobody's ever mentioned a resource sale to them.
- Sweden has Viking Sagas, fwiw. (tis not dirt cheap for us)
It should get pretty cheap once it gets around to a few other Viking nations, I would think.
Looks like quite an intense ride. And it's going to last for a LONG time, too - we aren't going to cash in any Relics anytime soon, so we're going to be fighting our way all the way on up to the 35000 VP figure.
Dare we think about prebuilding for a last-age wonder somewhere? Or do we need absolutely all the military production we can get?
But there's always a
... Peace with Bulgars is on SAME DEAL as alliance with Magyars.
I don't think so. You signed peace with the Bulgars during 960 AD on your turn before handing over. I then signed alliance with them after I picked up the game. The peace and alliance were on the same game turn, but not in the same deal.
Germany will pay 13gpt for silks (pure per-turn, so no bad consequences).
Aaugh - don't tell me even you are making this mistake now?
If the player is exporting ANY resource for ANY reason - regardless of what the other civ pays for it, even if it was a gift - and the route breaks for any reason other than the recipient civ declaring war on you, you lose your reputation. ANY resource export. This just happened in the Norway game, where we sold resources for gpt to the Turks, then the route broke and we did lose our rep. Good thing you didn't make this deal.100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns might just get the tech. It does
Could you be a bit less cryptic? Reading that gives me no idea whether you actually bought the tech or how much you paid.
Please tell me you didn't just pay Sid monopoly cost for Lost Roman Secrets?Peace renegotiations: Germany pays worker+16g+2gpt. Cordova pays 220g. Burgundy pays 42g+6gpt. Castille pays
87g+6gpt.
Wow, nice dealing there.
we would like to kick up self-research on it, but can't get past the min-sci discovery rate even at deficit!?
Welcome to Sid.
We betrayed our 'friends' the Danes?? It's been too long, how/when did that happen?
I have no idea either. Looking back through past reports, nobody's ever mentioned a resource sale to them.
- Sweden has Viking Sagas, fwiw. (tis not dirt cheap for us)
It should get pretty cheap once it gets around to a few other Viking nations, I would think.
Looks like quite an intense ride. And it's going to last for a LONG time, too - we aren't going to cash in any Relics anytime soon, so we're going to be fighting our way all the way on up to the 35000 VP figure.
Dare we think about prebuilding for a last-age wonder somewhere? Or do we need absolutely all the military production we can get?
Justus II
General Staff
@T-Hawk, forgive me for jumping into the thread here, but I'm curious about this point. I have seen reports of it working both ways. In fact, I think in the old AI Attitudes article, there was even something about a pure per-turn deal being a "minor rep hit" that would recover over time, but I may be remembering wrong. Is it the fact you are delivering the resource that makes it your rep on the line? In other words, if I am buying a resource for straight gpt, and it's broken, my rep is OK, but if I'm selling, even for straight gpt, my rep takes the hit?
Thanks, I'll hang up now and wait for the answer...
T-hawk
Transcend
Is it the fact you are delivering the resource that makes it your rep on the line?
Yes.
In other words, if I am buying a resource for straight gpt, and it's broken, my rep is OK
Yes. The breakage is considered the other civ's fault, not yours.
I am not aware of any "minor rep hit" in any version of Civ 3. The game handles alliance and ROP reputation differently than it does honoring-your-credit reputation, and I chalk up the reports of a "minor rep hit" to such factors.
but if I'm selling, even for straight gpt, my rep takes the hit?
Yes.
What you receive for the resource is absolutely 100% irrelevant. If you *gifted* away a resource, or even had it *demanded*, your rep is still on the line if the trade route breaks.
There are precisely two ways that any resource export can terminate before 20 turns without a reputation hit. First, if the resource was bundled with an alliance or embargo deal, and the alliance/embargo was terminated either due to the death of the target civ or due to your trading partner making peace with the target early. Second, if the recipient of the resource declares war on you. You'll note that these scenarios don't have anything to do with the trade route. It's always the trade route that you are responsible for, and if it breaks while you're exporting any resource, it's your fault.
Selling a resource to a civ that dies causes a reputation hit, because in that case the game actually processes it as first breaking the trade route (when that civ loses their last, capital city) before actually eliminating the civ.
Yes.
In other words, if I am buying a resource for straight gpt, and it's broken, my rep is OK
Yes. The breakage is considered the other civ's fault, not yours.
I am not aware of any "minor rep hit" in any version of Civ 3. The game handles alliance and ROP reputation differently than it does honoring-your-credit reputation, and I chalk up the reports of a "minor rep hit" to such factors.
but if I'm selling, even for straight gpt, my rep takes the hit?
Yes.
What you receive for the resource is absolutely 100% irrelevant. If you *gifted* away a resource, or even had it *demanded*, your rep is still on the line if the trade route breaks.There are precisely two ways that any resource export can terminate before 20 turns without a reputation hit. First, if the resource was bundled with an alliance or embargo deal, and the alliance/embargo was terminated either due to the death of the target civ or due to your trading partner making peace with the target early. Second, if the recipient of the resource declares war on you. You'll note that these scenarios don't have anything to do with the trade route. It's always the trade route that you are responsible for, and if it breaks while you're exporting any resource, it's your fault.
Selling a resource to a civ that dies causes a reputation hit, because in that case the game actually processes it as first breaking the trade route (when that civ loses their last, capital city) before actually eliminating the civ.
Justus II
General Staff
@T-Hawk: Thanks a lot! That's much clearer.
Now that's just plain mean!
T-hawk
Transcend
Rereading the above, I think the "AI Attitudes" article you cite means a "minor rep hit" in the context of the polite-annoyed-furious scale, not your dealmaking reputation. That might be correct (I don't know the details); a broken gpt deal might mean less there than a broken resource deal. But that AI attitude scale doesn't have anything to do with your purchasing-with-credit reputation; there's no such thing as minor damage to that.
In this game, perhaps Denmark demanded a resource from us and got it without the reporter ever mentioning it, then the trade route broke...? I cave to threats so routinely, almost subconsciously, that even I might've done it.
Enough spamming this thread; let's wait for Speaker's report.
In this game, perhaps Denmark demanded a resource from us and got it without the reporter ever mentioning it, then the trade route broke...? I cave to threats so routinely, almost subconsciously, that even I might've done it.
Enough spamming this thread; let's wait for Speaker's report.
Charis
Realms Beyond
> Aaugh - don't tell me even you are making this mistake now?
Well, I've heard *so* much conflicting descriptions of this I honestly am not sure of what is correct. If what you're saying is true then my fallback position of "what *should* be penalized is going to fail. I remember for sure some people commenting that to add like 2g hard currency to an otherwise pure tech deal was putting your rep on the line for no good reason. You're suggesting it's already on the line. I can see why if the route is cut and you bought hard goods for a lux why you should be penalized. But to think that in a situation where it's a per year fair trade that one person gets punished, and worse - it's asymetrical... well that's just horsefeathers. Having a rep damaged because the *demanded* item can no longer be shipped is likewise unspeakable rubbish.
Anyway, before I start to lose it, back to the game. At the point I considered the trade, and at a later point where I may have done a similar pure per-year trade, our rep was already toast. Because of the confusion I'm trying to avoid any deal that 'could' cause rep problems unless the chance of the route break or the benefit are strong. But in this case, we're already soiled, and no one even knows why - so there seemed no 'additional' harm if a pure gpt trade fell through. I'm a huge supporter of keeping an unsoiled rep, but if it becomes THIS hard and this arbitrary as to when it's considered bad... bah, I don't even want to go there.
>> 100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
>> of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns
>> might just get the tech. It does
> Could you be a bit less cryptic? Reading that gives me no idea
> whether you actually bought the tech or how much you paid.
> Please tell me you didn't just pay Sid monopoly cost for Lost
> Roman Secrets?
Egads no! I may be confused on per-year deals but not senile!! Translation: I stole the tech for about 500g instead of listening to him tell me that paying him 2000g would still be an insult.
You're right btw on the Bulgars alliance not being part of the peace deal. I caught that later but didn't edit my notes.
On the wonders and prebuild - it briefly crossed my mind but I didn't start one for three reasons:
- We're constantly fighting and basically weak to almost the whole world except the Bulgars
- I have no good idea if we have 1, 2, or 39 Assassins in our land, hence how many troops do we need
- I didn't think we had a chance of out building Sid with 40% shield cost. Then again, I had no idea we would be this competitive on tech. If we had a good city and a VERY early prebuild something might be possible. While there are several 'kinda nice' 3rd age wonders, there wasn't one that stood out enough for the cost and risk.
One longer term question... where are the rest of our 24K VP supposed to come from? We've only got 6 despite some pretty heavy fighting, and if two big powers slug it out and beat each other senseless it will be hard to keep up. The Abbasids have not impressed me with the verocity of their attack, just with the annoyance of the assassins. The new force that has me worried is the Turks. No strong opponents, the tech for mighty Sipahi, and a *large* empire base. Thank goodness they don't have horses, but if/when they do... yikes. A Kiev alliance would be critical if they turned their sights on us.
Charis
Well, I've heard *so* much conflicting descriptions of this I honestly am not sure of what is correct. If what you're saying is true then my fallback position of "what *should* be penalized is going to fail. I remember for sure some people commenting that to add like 2g hard currency to an otherwise pure tech deal was putting your rep on the line for no good reason. You're suggesting it's already on the line. I can see why if the route is cut and you bought hard goods for a lux why you should be penalized. But to think that in a situation where it's a per year fair trade that one person gets punished, and worse - it's asymetrical... well that's just horsefeathers. Having a rep damaged because the *demanded* item can no longer be shipped is likewise unspeakable rubbish.
Anyway, before I start to lose it, back to the game. At the point I considered the trade, and at a later point where I may have done a similar pure per-year trade, our rep was already toast. Because of the confusion I'm trying to avoid any deal that 'could' cause rep problems unless the chance of the route break or the benefit are strong. But in this case, we're already soiled, and no one even knows why - so there seemed no 'additional' harm if a pure gpt trade fell through. I'm a huge supporter of keeping an unsoiled rep, but if it becomes THIS hard and this arbitrary as to when it's considered bad... bah, I don't even want to go there.
>> 100gpt for 20 turns is not enough. I say fine but in the back
>> of my mind say that the 100gpt saved over the last 5 turns
>> might just get the tech. It does
> Could you be a bit less cryptic? Reading that gives me no idea
> whether you actually bought the tech or how much you paid.
> Please tell me you didn't just pay Sid monopoly cost for Lost
> Roman Secrets?
Egads no! I may be confused on per-year deals but not senile!! Translation: I stole the tech for about 500g instead of listening to him tell me that paying him 2000g would still be an insult.You're right btw on the Bulgars alliance not being part of the peace deal. I caught that later but didn't edit my notes.
On the wonders and prebuild - it briefly crossed my mind but I didn't start one for three reasons:
- We're constantly fighting and basically weak to almost the whole world except the Bulgars
- I have no good idea if we have 1, 2, or 39 Assassins in our land, hence how many troops do we need
- I didn't think we had a chance of out building Sid with 40% shield cost. Then again, I had no idea we would be this competitive on tech. If we had a good city and a VERY early prebuild something might be possible. While there are several 'kinda nice' 3rd age wonders, there wasn't one that stood out enough for the cost and risk.
One longer term question... where are the rest of our 24K VP supposed to come from? We've only got 6 despite some pretty heavy fighting, and if two big powers slug it out and beat each other senseless it will be hard to keep up. The Abbasids have not impressed me with the verocity of their attack, just with the annoyance of the assassins. The new force that has me worried is the Turks. No strong opponents, the tech for mighty Sipahi, and a *large* empire base. Thank goodness they don't have horses, but if/when they do... yikes. A Kiev alliance would be critical if they turned their sights on us.
Charis
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