Mauer
Pompous Noble
I know, I know. And I knew it when I did it. I don't know what came over me. Maybe I should have put some stingers down there to pull fire watch or somethingscoutsout said:
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RBC15f - Ottomans - OPEN - Emperor
- Thread starter Ankka
- Start date
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Mauer
Pompous Noble
If the goal is 40% land and 40% pop, This could be done by taking most of Russia, and some of France closer to the end. So I would suggest just finishing off Russia as much as possible, while preparing for Napolean.
Just notice the tile % of Ottomans, Russians and French. Especially if Russia's Iron and horses are taken away.
Just notice the tile % of Ottomans, Russians and French. Especially if Russia's Iron and horses are taken away.
I got it.
I am very pleased with the progress we have made. Domination looks to be well ahead of VP right now. We have < 27 K in VP.
One note on the previous post: We already have 27% land. Domination is 40%. Borders are retained when cities are captured. Hence ... if we eliminate Russia, we win.
(We need ~395 tiles for domination) A one-front war, even as wide as it will be, is a very good situation for the human.
I am very pleased with the progress we have made. Domination looks to be well ahead of VP right now. We have < 27 K in VP.
One note on the previous post: We already have 27% land. Domination is 40%. Borders are retained when cities are captured. Hence ... if we eliminate Russia, we win.
(We need ~395 tiles for domination) A one-front war, even as wide as it will be, is a very good situation for the human.
Mauer
Pompous Noble
Sounds good. I just threw in France as a last minute measure. If the turn limit comes close and Russia is still not taken, then some of the close French cities could be captured as a last minute tile gambit.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
i'll supply the donuts if you can take down the Russians and the french. Looking at your avatar, this is something you might like.
BTW - the strat. with the lux was sublime.
RBC 15F - What was that about starting a land war in Asia?
Sep 1809 (0)
I'll play until Nov 1810 to get us back to 1-year turns.
First thing I notice is that we are at war with Denmark. I see no point to that, and really don't want to face France. We make peace and take their 2 gold.
I don't see a reason to buy Sanitation yet. Cancel Furs deal with Spain, re-negotiate and get 154 gold instead of 5/turn. Now if they declare on us, we keep all the money.
The Prussians are OCC'ing, so we take their 20 gold to renew the ROP.
Trade Dyes to Napolean for 240 gold and 19 gpt. I don't think we will be attacking them until the Russians are finished.
Portugal gets Seapower for 13 gpt and 80 gold. I don't care if they can build boats.
Renew Alliance vs. Russians with Sweden. They should keep providing soft targets for the Russian forces.
Britain has ungodly amounts of money. Sell them Wines and Dyes for 700 gold.
Making Peace with the Danes got us out of Mobilization (if we were even in it). Time to MM the cities and see what we can do. The lux tax is way too high. Interesting note: Armies can be cash-rushed. Not relevant on this turn, as I short-rush a Cathedral in Belgrade. That one building may save us 50+ gpt in lux tax. Short-rush Cathedral in Thessalonika. Orsovo swapped to Market, and rushed. Rush Aqueduct in Chisinau, we need another 17% pop in addition to 13% land. Kiev is a happy place.
Put a couple of people to work in Kharkov. We don't want to starve if we can help it. Rush Temple in Warsaw.
Each click on the lux slider is worth 60 gpt to us.
Now for the troops ... We have two nice Artillery stacks, but are short on Sipahi and Armies. Sevastopol is a lost cause with the troops we are sending there. Will withdraw and use those troops in the attack North. More will come out of our core later to get Sevastopol. The next city we would like to get is Bryansk. I should also be able to hit Konigsberg and/or Danzig. I'll go for Danzig first to cut off the French.
Nov 1809 (1)
Manuvering, lost 1 troop on the IT. Attacks in 2 turns.
Put 3 people back to work at Denp'
Jan 1810 (2)
Win 2, lose 2 in the field. Attack 6 units getting a little lucky against us. The pain will be brought next turn. Also assembling a third stack in the Russian south. Need more Artillery.
Let's see if we can reduce the lux tax to 30% ...yep. Only costs a couple of cops.
Mar 1810 (3)
Lose nothing on the IT. Finally get to attack something, at Danzig. Two vet Sipahi kill red-lined defenders and the city is ours.
Now to get cute. I'm betting that the French have really softened up Stettin, so I'm sending our Sipahi army in for a double-attack. Win twice but the city is still defended by veteran troops. Oh well. Set up the rest of the Western Army to attack Konigsberg next turn.
IT - Lose Gems colony. Doubt we were trading those to anyone.
May 1810 (4)
Assault on Bryansk: Decent bombardment, then lead with the Janissary Army. Two wins, then an elite Sipahi wins. Win with vet Sipahi, then lose two. Make it three. Finally win and capture the city. Unfortunately, we'll have to go with defense by volume since there are no Janissaries remaining in the stack.
Put a couple of cities under the Governor's control. Otherwise we'll have riots when the resistance ends.
IT - Lose way too many units. The Russians aren't close be being gassed.
Jul 1810 (5)
Good bombardment round, but even if we capture Leipzig we can't hold it. I'll wait until next turn.
Moving to reassemble the Eastern Army. We could really use another leader. The WW is keeping us from being able to cash-rush armies.
I think we can mobilize next turn.
Sep 1810 (6)
Good bombardment round at Leipzig, and then the pRNG just completely turns on us. A single red-lined Guard kills 6 units.
Then a vet Sipahi redlines vs. a Barb Warrior.
We'll lose Danzig on the IT. I'll trade it for Leipzig and pick it back up later.
Nov 1810 (7)
Lose Danzig as expected.
We moblilize. We capture Leipzig, losing only 1 unit. And take city with last reasonable offensive unit at our disposal.
We have to rebuild the Western Army group. The pRNG just laid waste to any reasonable plan I had in that theater.
Final Notes:
The situation in the NW is interesting. Most of our fresh troops have to go west from our core or we may lose another city to the Russians. The Eastern Army is in Bryansk. They can probably move out next turn, I used a bunch of the Artillery this round. If the next target were Minsk, the two army groups could meet and possibly redistribute troops to have two more evenly matched forces. Or, one smaller group to sweep SW and reclaim Danzig and Stettin, and a larger group to continue through the Russian Core.
We are at 29/26 for land/pop. Once we get through the Russians the pop can go through not having so much WW. I didn't see many fresh troops from the Russians the last couple of turns. They may be starting to get gassed. Or they are all in Sweden.
Sep 1809 (0)
I'll play until Nov 1810 to get us back to 1-year turns.
First thing I notice is that we are at war with Denmark. I see no point to that, and really don't want to face France. We make peace and take their 2 gold.
I don't see a reason to buy Sanitation yet. Cancel Furs deal with Spain, re-negotiate and get 154 gold instead of 5/turn. Now if they declare on us, we keep all the money.
The Prussians are OCC'ing, so we take their 20 gold to renew the ROP.
Trade Dyes to Napolean for 240 gold and 19 gpt. I don't think we will be attacking them until the Russians are finished.
Portugal gets Seapower for 13 gpt and 80 gold. I don't care if they can build boats.
Renew Alliance vs. Russians with Sweden. They should keep providing soft targets for the Russian forces.
Britain has ungodly amounts of money. Sell them Wines and Dyes for 700 gold.
Making Peace with the Danes got us out of Mobilization (if we were even in it). Time to MM the cities and see what we can do. The lux tax is way too high. Interesting note: Armies can be cash-rushed. Not relevant on this turn, as I short-rush a Cathedral in Belgrade. That one building may save us 50+ gpt in lux tax. Short-rush Cathedral in Thessalonika. Orsovo swapped to Market, and rushed. Rush Aqueduct in Chisinau, we need another 17% pop in addition to 13% land. Kiev is a happy place.
Put a couple of people to work in Kharkov. We don't want to starve if we can help it. Rush Temple in Warsaw.
Each click on the lux slider is worth 60 gpt to us.
Now for the troops ... We have two nice Artillery stacks, but are short on Sipahi and Armies. Sevastopol is a lost cause with the troops we are sending there. Will withdraw and use those troops in the attack North. More will come out of our core later to get Sevastopol. The next city we would like to get is Bryansk. I should also be able to hit Konigsberg and/or Danzig. I'll go for Danzig first to cut off the French.
Nov 1809 (1)
Manuvering, lost 1 troop on the IT. Attacks in 2 turns.
Put 3 people back to work at Denp'
Jan 1810 (2)
Win 2, lose 2 in the field. Attack 6 units getting a little lucky against us. The pain will be brought next turn. Also assembling a third stack in the Russian south. Need more Artillery.
Let's see if we can reduce the lux tax to 30% ...yep. Only costs a couple of cops.
Mar 1810 (3)
Lose nothing on the IT. Finally get to attack something, at Danzig. Two vet Sipahi kill red-lined defenders and the city is ours.
Now to get cute. I'm betting that the French have really softened up Stettin, so I'm sending our Sipahi army in for a double-attack. Win twice but the city is still defended by veteran troops. Oh well. Set up the rest of the Western Army to attack Konigsberg next turn.
IT - Lose Gems colony. Doubt we were trading those to anyone.
May 1810 (4)
Assault on Bryansk: Decent bombardment, then lead with the Janissary Army. Two wins, then an elite Sipahi wins. Win with vet Sipahi, then lose two. Make it three. Finally win and capture the city. Unfortunately, we'll have to go with defense by volume since there are no Janissaries remaining in the stack.
Put a couple of cities under the Governor's control. Otherwise we'll have riots when the resistance ends.
IT - Lose way too many units. The Russians aren't close be being gassed.
Jul 1810 (5)
Good bombardment round, but even if we capture Leipzig we can't hold it. I'll wait until next turn.
Moving to reassemble the Eastern Army. We could really use another leader. The WW is keeping us from being able to cash-rush armies.
I think we can mobilize next turn.
Sep 1810 (6)
Good bombardment round at Leipzig, and then the pRNG just completely turns on us. A single red-lined Guard kills 6 units.
Then a vet Sipahi redlines vs. a Barb Warrior.
We'll lose Danzig on the IT. I'll trade it for Leipzig and pick it back up later.
Nov 1810 (7)
Lose Danzig as expected.
We moblilize. We capture Leipzig, losing only 1 unit. And take city with last reasonable offensive unit at our disposal.
We have to rebuild the Western Army group. The pRNG just laid waste to any reasonable plan I had in that theater.
Final Notes:
The situation in the NW is interesting. Most of our fresh troops have to go west from our core or we may lose another city to the Russians. The Eastern Army is in Bryansk. They can probably move out next turn, I used a bunch of the Artillery this round. If the next target were Minsk, the two army groups could meet and possibly redistribute troops to have two more evenly matched forces. Or, one smaller group to sweep SW and reclaim Danzig and Stettin, and a larger group to continue through the Russian Core.
We are at 29/26 for land/pop. Once we get through the Russians the pop can go through not having so much WW. I didn't see many fresh troops from the Russians the last couple of turns. They may be starting to get gassed. Or they are all in Sweden.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
@Ankka: Is it considered poor form to take a second set in one of these? When a strong player describes a situation as "interesting"... I get tempted.. 
grs
nameless one
Why not? T_McC and I already took two turns and I may be tempted to take a third sometimes, if you let the game prolong that long
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Alright then...if this sits for another 24 hours I'll pick it up. I rather like 'interesting tactical situations'.
I rather like 'interesting tactical situations'.The interesting part is how thin we are in the NW. The flip side to that is we have a rather large stack in the E, hence my comments about moving for Minsk from the east to combine the stacks and redistribute. I think our ideal case is to have two Artillery stacks (each covered by an Army) advancing on different targets, yet close enough together that we only need one stack of Sipahi that can constantly be re-inforced from our core. This can't happen until we clean out the Russian cities in our west.
On the next IT, I do not believe Leipzig can be attacked since the Russians seem intent to never build another Cossack. I didn't see even one on my turns. There is an exposed Sipahi that will probably be attacked as the Russians should certainly prefer that to our injured Army. The two Guards in our territory can't attack a city next turn, and I doubt they can attack the Army/Artillery stack. On our next turn we can use our artillery to neutralize any potential damage they can do. Worst case: Just outnumber them in the city they want to attack and wait for friends.
Danzig has two units in it, is below size 7 and the Russians are broke. Hence there won't shouldn't be any more than two units there any time soon. Our artillery can fire on Danzig from our territory, so we should be able to use the Sipahi Army to capture the city on our 3rd turn. (Or, one can use the Sipahi coming out of the core to capture the city sooner.) Turn 3 is also about the time we can attack Minsk since we have to move a couple of tiles in enemy territory.
On the next IT, I do not believe Leipzig can be attacked since the Russians seem intent to never build another Cossack. I didn't see even one on my turns. There is an exposed Sipahi that will probably be attacked as the Russians should certainly prefer that to our injured Army. The two Guards in our territory can't attack a city next turn, and I doubt they can attack the Army/Artillery stack. On our next turn we can use our artillery to neutralize any potential damage they can do. Worst case: Just outnumber them in the city they want to attack and wait for friends.
Danzig has two units in it, is below size 7 and the Russians are broke. Hence there won't shouldn't be any more than two units there any time soon. Our artillery can fire on Danzig from our territory, so we should be able to use the Sipahi Army to capture the city on our 3rd turn. (Or, one can use the Sipahi coming out of the core to capture the city sooner.) Turn 3 is also about the time we can attack Minsk since we have to move a couple of tiles in enemy territory.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Just a caution. You may want to run a zone defense along the French frontier. Napolean will probably be running out of soft targets, and we don't want to look too enticing.
grs
nameless one
I personally would go full throttle after Russia. We can rush/shortrush a lot of units in our homeland and move the remaining city guards far from any border north, to quell resistors in catured cities. Btw, we are running governor in some former Russian cities. We should have 40% before Napoleon will make trouble.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Just don't leave a nice poorly defended city on his doorstep. We don't want to tempt him.
grs said:
That's intentional. Those cities riot otherwise when the resistance ends. Once the resistance is over we can re-take manual control.
It would be even better if the governor would just turn every citizen into a taxman instead of clowns ... Actually, resistors are not a problem. Cultural flips are off, and resistors don't eat. We should try to prevent starvation where possible.
Napoleon also has more enemies than he knows what to do with. He'll be flinging units into the grinder against Naples for a while longer and he's at war with Spain. Just keep selling him lux and he should look elsewhere for a while longer.
All of our cities are poorly defended.
We can correct that as the front moves north. The former Austrian and Prussian cities can move their Janissaries to the French front and back-fill with draftees. Probably also worth building Grand Batteries in those cities, to have 1-2 in each city on the French front. I don't think that needs to be done in a real hurry, but pretty soon the Russian front will be moving awfully far away for move-1 units.
grs
nameless one
T_McC said:
That's the reason I would adjust them by hand. And to nitpick a bit: Bryansk is already out of resistance and could use 9 taxmen, as could Konigsberg (which is not governed) and Odessa is dying
But as this is a bit special without flips and stationary cutural borders - I will have to think about your way of handling it. Till now I always preferred to put them all to taxmen - which could result in a riot once resistance ends or gets lower.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Tech wise we're in pretty good shape, right? So we need gold for the luxury slider, and to cash-finish-rush the occasional unit, right?
Any thoughts on short-rushing versus finish-rushing?
Any thoughts on short-rushing versus finish-rushing?
Well, the resistance in Bryansk ended this turn. It is up to the next player to MM the cities on the inherited IT. Konigsberg isn't Russian, so if we're running entertainers it is to prevent starvation. We should keep the captured cities as well-fed as possible, since we'll need the pop to achieve domination and don't have to fear flips. One pop is worth more than 2 gold.
As far as Odessa: That was a special case where we have a Granary and a metric buttload of food. We can fairly quickly replace the Russian citizens with Ottomans and the city will be happier than it was with all Russians. (I think it would have 3 unhappies/Russian!) Next player can decide how to handle it.
Short-rush anything you can, no use wasting money. To prevent complete math overload, probably only worth for things you can rush to "1 turn to completion" (i.e. City makes 10 spt, rush a Janissary to build a Sipahi.) The city south of Odessa can rush a Coastal Fortress to build a Grand Battery. One advantage of being coastal. This poses a problem with being mobilized as we lose our 80-shield builds. We have 50-, 65-, and 90-shield units in addition to Sipahi. I think there are boats that are 60 shields, but I'm not sure.
As far as Odessa: That was a special case where we have a Granary and a metric buttload of food. We can fairly quickly replace the Russian citizens with Ottomans and the city will be happier than it was with all Russians. (I think it would have 3 unhappies/Russian!) Next player can decide how to handle it.
Short-rush anything you can, no use wasting money. To prevent complete math overload, probably only worth for things you can rush to "1 turn to completion" (i.e. City makes 10 spt, rush a Janissary to build a Sipahi.) The city south of Odessa can rush a Coastal Fortress to build a Grand Battery. One advantage of being coastal. This poses a problem with being mobilized as we lose our 80-shield builds. We have 50-, 65-, and 90-shield units in addition to Sipahi. I think there are boats that are 60 shields, but I'm not sure.
I feel like I've been talking in circles about this point, so I'll more clearly state what I believe:
Using the Governor is wrong. The Governor will use far too many clowns, and cost us money on every non-rioting turn. The money we make on the non-rioting turns is greater than the money we lose on the single turn where the city comes out of resistance and riots. So the next player should remove control of any cities from the Governor.
Since flips are turned off, we do not have to be in a hurry to quell resistance. We would like to keep captured cities as large as possible to aid in reaching the domination limits, and resistors neither eat nor contribute to the unhappiness of the city. The only benefit to ending resistance is the ability to cash-rush a unit in the city.
We don't have to turn every worker into a taxman and induce starvation of captured cities. Cities should be configured for maximum food at break-even happiness, even if it means running no specialists except clowns. Cities with Markets can usually support a couple of workers in the field, which is often enough to support a population of 5-7.
Once the Russian war ends, cities should be configured for maximum food.
Using the Governor is wrong. The Governor will use far too many clowns, and cost us money on every non-rioting turn. The money we make on the non-rioting turns is greater than the money we lose on the single turn where the city comes out of resistance and riots. So the next player should remove control of any cities from the Governor.
Since flips are turned off, we do not have to be in a hurry to quell resistance. We would like to keep captured cities as large as possible to aid in reaching the domination limits, and resistors neither eat nor contribute to the unhappiness of the city. The only benefit to ending resistance is the ability to cash-rush a unit in the city.
We don't have to turn every worker into a taxman and induce starvation of captured cities. Cities should be configured for maximum food at break-even happiness, even if it means running no specialists except clowns. Cities with Markets can usually support a couple of workers in the field, which is often enough to support a population of 5-7.
Once the Russian war ends, cities should be configured for maximum food.
grs
nameless one
Short rushing sipahi (100s) or Jannisary (90s) is very good with ship-of-the line (80s) or Sekhan (65s). Depending on city production and what you chose, you can finish almost all builds in 1 turn, with minimal waste.
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