RBC4c - Mesoamerican Aztecs (Sid)

My results from a game started prepatch:

The FP decreases corruption around it but still has corruption in the actual city. The FP city had about 3 wasted shields and the surrounding cities about 4 to 7.

Edited to help clarify my previous post
 
From what I have read about corruption under the patch, the FP effectively doubles the OCN. It does not act as a new palace.

So its not a complete fix, but it is a heck of a lot better than it was. Lets patch it and run.

To let you guys know, I doubt that I can play until Friday at the earliest. Gonna be busy with the relatives until then. I will be able to check the forums, but won't have the time to play until then at the earliest.
 
OK. I really have no idea what to research. Lowly Pottery would take 24 turns! And our beaker production isn't going to go up any - actually it will drop immediately once the warrior moves out of the capital because we'll need lux tax, plus we're also paying 2/turn in building maintenance.

I think our only possible choice for research is a 40-turn (isn't it supposed to be 50 turns in C3C?), and it looks like the tech we can most afford to wait 40 turns (more than a fifth of the game) for is Ritual Sacrifice.

Two of the rival civs start with Pottery, so we'll just have to hope we can somehow find them and get it. The Incans and Olmecs have it - I think the Olmecs are near us?

The warrior and settler both head east, while Tenochtitlan starts building another warrior. The worker moves to the maize. Irrigation there isn't available, and the city's at the +5 food threshold anyway, so the natural choice is to mine and road it.

The settler finds a nice spot at the mouth of the river with more maize, and builds Tlatelolco in 330 AD (it's 10 years/turn.) There's already a barbarian camp in the area! Since we can't afford to risk losing units wastefully, I switch the capital to an archer instead of a warrior.

After the archer, Tenochtitlan builds a worker, since otherwise it will run out of 2-food tiles and its growth will be slowed.

370 AD: Our warrior contacts the Olmecs, who have Pottery and a worker available. We can trade Warrior Code. Pottery would cost the tech plus 2/turn, or we could trade our tech for the worker, which would greatly help us but cripple them. Eventually I decide not to do either deal right now. A granary really isn't extremely necessary right now with the cities both making growth in 4 already and lacking good tiles to work at larger sizes, and I'd rather avoid paying monopoly price for the tech.

At the end of 370 AD, each city built a worker.

390 AD: In the south, we pop a hut and get a free warrior. And our archer pops one barb camp and goes elite.

410 AD: Tenochtitlan builds archer, starts settler.

430 AD: We pop another hut and get maps.

450 AD: We contact the Mayans. They have Craftsmanship and Masonry and we have nothing to trade them.

460 AD: Elite archer loses 4 HP but wins against barb camp (whew!) Tenochtitlan builds settler, starts archer.

480 AD: Hut in the north pops barbs. Tenochtitlan changes to warrior.

490 AD: Contact the Toltecs. Buy Masonry from them for 117 gold + 9/turn (owch!) Resell it to the Olmecs for Pottery + 10g. Resell Pottery to both of the other civs for Craftsmanship and 125 gold. That's a three-for-a-half brokerage for those keeping score. :goodjob:

Highly Detailed Wrath: Two turns from now, Tlatelolco should whip its granary. The city has no more two-food tiles to work so its growth will be slowed anyway. Then make sure the city is set to +4 surplus food (right now, it isn't and shouldn't be.)

Our settler is on the same tile as that archer in the south, and should build right there. That pulls in gobs of resources including the 3-food game tile.

We need oodles of workers, to hook up all those resources. High priority should be the stone on the northwest side of Tenochtitlan's radius. We have the tobacco luxury between the two cities hooked up, and should also push for the Jade that's next to the settler.

As for long-term plans for exactly how to *win* this scenario... well... I really haven't got a clue just yet. :crazyeye: We could consider swapping Tenochtitlan off granary now, and taking a rush of about 6 archers at the Olmecs? They don't yet have Craftsmanship, so no spears.
 
rbc4c-500ad-1.jpg


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc4c-500ad.zip
 
Hmm, an archer rush on the Olmecs. We have how many archers now? Two? And one of those is 10 turns away? I don't think there is much chance for us to get 6 archers down there before they get craftmanship. They will probably be able to build a spear per turn as they are only 8 shields.

On the other hand, clipping them now may prove considerably easier than waiting 50 turns for them to get 4 or 5 cities.... And if we were to take their capitol, it looks like we might be able to block off the land bridge and fill in everything.

I see it, but probably won't be able to get to it until Friday at the earliest. I am interested to hear the thoughts of everyone else.
 
The devil is in the details. I think its generaly agreed that waiting too long is bad thing. We get a 3rd city next turn and I'm inclined to favor the archer rush. I might approach it this way. Rush both granaries, start archers in 3rd city and Tlatelolco, settlers from Tenochtitlan.

Going outside the choices my personal favorite would see both granaries swaped to settlers for a farmers gambit. I'd follow that up with military. However, I trust T-Hawks instincts and I think we can can pull off a minimal lose military campaign. Argh I want one spear.
 
Hey, don't consider me the expert on anything here. :) I'm just as much in the dark as everyone else as far as what will work.

For a military rush, the thing to do would be swap Tlatelolco to barracks, eating the loss of ~10 shields, then crank archers. We can have our existing two archers, plus two more from each of the original cities (maybe whip one in Tlat), plus a regular spearman from the new city, at the doorstep of the Olmec capital about 14 turns from now. If we decide this, have at least one worker push roads south from Tlat. It takes only 2 worker-turns to build a road in this scenario.

Will they get any number of spears by then? I have absolutely no idea. The Olmecs don't have contact with the southern civs, but I have no idea how long that's likely to be true, or what they're researching right now. But it's also true getting Craftsmanship doesn't necessarily mean instant spears - they could be busy building a settler or something else.

My instinct says this is the way to win on Sid - smash them before the cost factor starts kicking in rather than trying to out-expand them. But this is only because I don't really have any other plan...

Coffee, swapping to settlers right now wouldn't be the best plan. There's very little in the way of good city sites around with a fast payoff, and we need gobs of workers to make the terrain any sort of usable. If we don't go for a military rush, better to build the granaries (they can be whipped) so we can put out more settlers and workers in the longer run.

Last thing to note is that we do have two elite archers already. And we know armies are quite a powerful force in Conquests...
 
T-Hawk, Nice call on the settler option. Not to worry I don't consider you an expert, I just think you have good instincts ;). We need land and culture, the plan provides for one spear and the action is sooner. I'm in. :)
 
It looks like there is a lot more land than I had imagined. I think a good goal for Ridgelake's turns would be to get us to the brink of war for me to execute. Since science is so tough going, we could use the :hammer: to keep up (*wishing there was a pointy-stick smiley*). The more we prune our neighbors now, the more powerful it will let us become.

I just noticed that I posted contradicting turn orders on the last page. Here is the order I intended.

T-Hawk--Just played
Ridgelake--Up now
Speaker--On Deck
Coffee--In the hole
 
Got the save. Will try to play tonight or tomorrow, depending on the Mrs.
 
Sidding Aztecs

500AD (0) As we discussed on the boards, we will amass an assault on the Olemecs to the South. To accomplish this task, work on granaries is stopped and military started. Teno loses no shields swapping to archer. Tlat burns 12 shields swapping to a rax.

On checking the diplo scene, I find that we have pottery over the Mayans and Toltecs and they have Craftmanship? I thought T-Hawk did that last turn. Well, I first send pottery to the Mayans for craftsmanship and 33 gold. Then to the Toltecs for 94 gold.

510AD (1) Found Texcoco on spot. The 3/5 archer kills the barb on route back to town. Tlat finishes rax, starts archer

520BC (2)

530AD (3) The Olmecs found another city south of their capitol.

540AD (4) The Olmecs have craftsmanship

550AD (5) Olmecs found a third city. Teno grows to size 6. But I cant get it to 10 spt without another mine.

560AD (6) .

570AD (7) The Toltecs come up with Enslavement.

580AD (8)

590AD (9) Mayans now have enslavement. Scouting warrior frags a barb camp and promotes to vet.

600AD (10)

610AD (11)

620AD (12)

630AD (13) Stack of 6 archers and a spear head towards the Olmec capitol. I saw 2 archers head in that direction.

640AD (14)

650AD (15) Olmecs discover Enslavement. I leave movement available on our war stack. Six archers and a spear. Three more archers in route. Teno at 10spt now and can do an archer in 2.

War is NOT yet declared.

Good luck, Speaker! :hammer:

RBC4c-650AD.JPG



Hammer Time
 
Oops. :) I must've saved, then done the diplo dealings and forgot to save again. :crazyeye:

Good preparation; let's see what Speaker can do now. Hopefully they won't have had time to build more than one spear in the capital...

BTW, what happened to our two southern exploring warriors? Did they die or do they still have a chance to make contact with the far civs? I have no idea when, if ever, contact trading is allowed in this scenario, so we might want to make sure we get somebody down there to make contact...
 
Well, one warrior is still scouting south. He made no new contacts during my turn. And we can trade contact with writing IIRC.

The other warrior went east to visit with Smoke (the mayans). He inhaled too deeply and took a "trip" to just outside our borders. He went into detox...err MP duty....in Tex.
 
After Ritual Sacrifice comes in and we acquire enslavement, I am pretty sure that Monarchy can be researched. We will want to get there ASAP. I recommend max research on Monarchy, even if it says 40 turns. We will get it in less than that and we will benefit greatly from that government.


I would expect at least 2 spears in the capitol, plus at least 2 archers. Also, with enslavement, they can make 2-1-2 units as well. But they havent had time to make (m)any of those.


After we do wage this war (successfully), it will only take 6 units to block off the isthmus. Then we can fill in the entire north. For a next town, I would go 3 spaces due north of the capitol to bring in the furs and bonus resource.
 
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