Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
We haven't put up a map in a while, so here's one showing our new city in the east.
RBE DSG1 - The Uncanny X-Men
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
T-hawk
Transcend
Take a look at the AI cities currently building Shakespeare's. Are they off-center corrupt cities with all irrigated grasslands, or are any a capital with a good mix of terrain?
edit: I grabbed the save to look myself (didn't investigate the cities)... France's is in a size-2 and Babylon's in a size-3 city. India's New Madras has lots of hills but is stuck at size 6. Rome's Antium is size 12 with a good mix of terrain. I'd imagine they'll get it, fairly soon, and even if the others do cascade won't get Suffrage before a Persian Palace Prebuild. (I just wanted to say that.
) Just keep an eye on whoever else starts it now that hasn't yet.
edit: I grabbed the save to look myself (didn't investigate the cities)... France's is in a size-2 and Babylon's in a size-3 city. India's New Madras has lots of hills but is stuck at size 6. Rome's Antium is size 12 with a good mix of terrain. I'd imagine they'll get it, fairly soon, and even if the others do cascade won't get Suffrage before a Persian Palace Prebuild. (I just wanted to say that.
) Just keep an eye on whoever else starts it now that hasn't yet.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Well, it's unfortunate that the cascade ended TOO SOON. IE, not sweeping Shakespeare up into it. It was probably wise, with AI's already having steam, to hold off on Wall Street. Start Persepolis on it, is what I would do, and leave Pasargadae on palace to sweep up Suffrage. Ideally, Persepolis will have enough time to get a shield lead to be in position to swap to ToE right before Wall Street would complete.
Going to be tricky management. We want to build FOUR major wonders in the next time period, none of them Shakespeares. Suffrage, ToE, Hoover and Wall Street. Right now we lack for placeholders and... judging by the screenshot, we lack for core cities in the middle of projects. They ALL look like they are starting new projects now.
In any case, it's in Jaffa's hands and will all be decided before my next round comes up. Good luck, guys.
Oh, and as for Sulla's
comment: Merv. Why did he let a starving desert city grow to size 4 before its granary completes? He thought it was coincidence that it had one food left to go? 
It's now sitting on zero food in the box and zero food income. Rails will fix that soonish, but... it's not like THAT city should have been put on high priority for rail improvements. 
Speaking of which, the TOP priority for rails in this case won't be the military rail net. Get every worker you can (without wasting turns, as in get them stacked, move them two, build a rail, move them two again next turn, build a rail) to those core wonder cities ASAP and focus on the shield tiles, which are largely nasty mountain tiles. Hospitals should be ignored in favor of factories in all cases. In fact, except for aqueduct or a must-have happiness unit (markets?) every city should be on factory prebuild now. How to balance that through trying to get four wonders... in the case of Hoovers, it would likely be better to build factory and coal plant in a city first. The rest will probably have to be raw, but good look sorting it out.
Oh, and we DO want Communism, at late prices. We're going to be trying to fight from Republic. We need Police Stations for the suppression factor, and wouldn't hurt to reduce corruption either, since we're not in democracy. If we don't have spare settlers, training a few from low-priority cities with granary might be useful. Waiting until after a hole opens to build a settler worked out right next to our city, but that won't cut it for grabbing holes farther away. We don't need conquest here, we only need cities, and ones we don't have to fight to pick up are the best kind.
- Sirian
Going to be tricky management. We want to build FOUR major wonders in the next time period, none of them Shakespeares. Suffrage, ToE, Hoover and Wall Street. Right now we lack for placeholders and... judging by the screenshot, we lack for core cities in the middle of projects. They ALL look like they are starting new projects now.
In any case, it's in Jaffa's hands and will all be decided before my next round comes up. Good luck, guys.
Oh, and as for Sulla's
comment: Merv. Why did he let a starving desert city grow to size 4 before its granary completes? He thought it was coincidence that it had one food left to go? It's now sitting on zero food in the box and zero food income. Rails will fix that soonish, but... it's not like THAT city should have been put on high priority for rail improvements. Speaking of which, the TOP priority for rails in this case won't be the military rail net. Get every worker you can (without wasting turns, as in get them stacked, move them two, build a rail, move them two again next turn, build a rail) to those core wonder cities ASAP and focus on the shield tiles, which are largely nasty mountain tiles. Hospitals should be ignored in favor of factories in all cases. In fact, except for aqueduct or a must-have happiness unit (markets?) every city should be on factory prebuild now. How to balance that through trying to get four wonders... in the case of Hoovers, it would likely be better to build factory and coal plant in a city first. The rest will probably have to be raw, but good look sorting it out.
Oh, and we DO want Communism, at late prices. We're going to be trying to fight from Republic. We need Police Stations for the suppression factor, and wouldn't hurt to reduce corruption either, since we're not in democracy. If we don't have spare settlers, training a few from low-priority cities with granary might be useful. Waiting until after a hole opens to build a settler worked out right next to our city, but that won't cut it for grabbing holes farther away. We don't need conquest here, we only need cities, and ones we don't have to fight to pick up are the best kind.
- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Originally posted by Sirian
Oh, and as for Sulla's
My mistake. I will have to work on reading Sirian's mind better the next time I play.
Jaffa Tamarin
Monkey Cult
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 570
Got it, probably play tomorrow.
Jaffa Tamarin
Monkey Cult
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 570
(0) 650AD Hmmm. To use palace in Pasargadae as placeholder for Suffrage, I think we're going to have to buy Steam Power. Fairly soon. We can then research Industrialization ourselves.
So here's the plan. First, finish research on Sanitation (3 turns, -143gpt). Sell Sanitation for whatever we can get, and buy Steam Power. Research Industrialization, and hopefully build Suffrage before AIs get to Scientific Method.
(1) 660AD Research time on Sanitation down to 1 turn. Heh. I guess someone got it before us, then. Indeed, both Babylon and Rome do.
We buy Sanitation from Babylon for WM+300g, and turn off our science budget (for a net gain to us of 241g, compared with the cost of 1 turn of research).
I decide to hold off on buying Steam Power until our Spices to Rome deal expires in 3 turns.
Persepolis starts a hospital.
(2) 670AD Rome declares war on Japan.
Babylon starts building Universal Suffrage (
) in Ur, which is size 12.
(3) 680AD We spend 156g to investigate Ur, and find that Babylon will finish Suffrage in 27 turns.
Caesar calls to renogotiate silks-for-gems swap. His price goes up from 13gpt to 14gpt.
(4) 690AD We now have spices available to trade. Buy Steam Power off Babylon for WM+Spices+1800g+120gpt.
Hmmm. Palace is due in 12 turns. To research industrialization in 12 turns would cost -58gpt, and we only have 84g in the treasury. We set research for 16 turns (+38gpt), and rearrange Pasargadae to slow down the palace.
Workers try to start on railroads, and discover a slight problem. No coal.
Babylon also has no coal. Rome has none to spare.
Searching the map I find a second coal source in Rome, not connected. India also has two in their territory, but neither are connected, so even if we gave them Steam Power, we still couldn't get any coal.
Ack.
(5) 700AD The Iroquois have somehow come into some available money. We sell them Medicine for 15gpt (+WM+Free Artistry).
(6) 710AD Persepolis finishes our first hospital
(8) 730AD We donate Sanitation to the Iroquois in exchange for WM+2gpt+20g+2 workers.
India now has Steam Power, and still haven't connected any coal.
(9) 740AD We sell Nationalism to the Iroquois for WM+34gpt+43g. Where did they get 34gpt?
(10) 750AD Renegotiated expired lux deals with Rome and India. Ended up losing out by 3gpt on the Rome deal, and in India turned a net 11gpt payment into a one-off 75g payment.
I can't see any likely way of getting coal other than waiting on one of the AIs to connect an extra source. We could, I suppose, negotiate an RoP with India and then run workers in to connect their coal for them.
750AD
So here's the plan. First, finish research on Sanitation (3 turns, -143gpt). Sell Sanitation for whatever we can get, and buy Steam Power. Research Industrialization, and hopefully build Suffrage before AIs get to Scientific Method.
(1) 660AD Research time on Sanitation down to 1 turn. Heh. I guess someone got it before us, then. Indeed, both Babylon and Rome do.
We buy Sanitation from Babylon for WM+300g, and turn off our science budget (for a net gain to us of 241g, compared with the cost of 1 turn of research).
I decide to hold off on buying Steam Power until our Spices to Rome deal expires in 3 turns.
Persepolis starts a hospital.
(2) 670AD Rome declares war on Japan.
Babylon starts building Universal Suffrage (
) in Ur, which is size 12.(3) 680AD We spend 156g to investigate Ur, and find that Babylon will finish Suffrage in 27 turns.
Caesar calls to renogotiate silks-for-gems swap. His price goes up from 13gpt to 14gpt.
(4) 690AD We now have spices available to trade. Buy Steam Power off Babylon for WM+Spices+1800g+120gpt.
Hmmm. Palace is due in 12 turns. To research industrialization in 12 turns would cost -58gpt, and we only have 84g in the treasury. We set research for 16 turns (+38gpt), and rearrange Pasargadae to slow down the palace.
Workers try to start on railroads, and discover a slight problem. No coal.
Babylon also has no coal. Rome has none to spare.
Searching the map I find a second coal source in Rome, not connected. India also has two in their territory, but neither are connected, so even if we gave them Steam Power, we still couldn't get any coal.
Ack.
(5) 700AD The Iroquois have somehow come into some available money. We sell them Medicine for 15gpt (+WM+Free Artistry).
(6) 710AD Persepolis finishes our first hospital
(8) 730AD We donate Sanitation to the Iroquois in exchange for WM+2gpt+20g+2 workers.
India now has Steam Power, and still haven't connected any coal.
(9) 740AD We sell Nationalism to the Iroquois for WM+34gpt+43g. Where did they get 34gpt?
(10) 750AD Renegotiated expired lux deals with Rome and India. Ended up losing out by 3gpt on the Rome deal, and in India turned a net 11gpt payment into a one-off 75g payment.
I can't see any likely way of getting coal other than waiting on one of the AIs to connect an extra source. We could, I suppose, negotiate an RoP with India and then run workers in to connect their coal for them.
750AD
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
ALL that jungle and NO coal?! 
If there was one resource I was sure we would have, it was coal. That's flat-out ridiculously bad luck from the map. Well, we will make due. Sending workers into India to connect their coal sources would not be a bad idea. Sirp will have to look into it and see what is the best option on his turn.
If there was one resource I was sure we would have, it was coal. That's flat-out ridiculously bad luck from the map. Well, we will make due. Sending workers into India to connect their coal sources would not be a bad idea. Sirp will have to look into it and see what is the best option on his turn.
ok I see it, and will likely play in around 12 hours or so. Real harsh not having any coal! I was thinking we might be able to sell coal to others, but we don't even have any for ourselves. The idea of helping our Indian friends get their road network in order sounds good, I'll see what I can do.
-Sirp.
-Sirp.
Jaffa Tamarin
Monkey Cult
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Messages
- 570
To guarantee we get a chance at India's coal, and Gandhi doesn't do something stupid like sell it off to Babylon, you need to send in enough workers to build a mountain road in a single turn.
(0) 750AD: ok, now where's all the coal? As far as I can see, the Japanese have one source. The Romans have one source (not hooked up yet). The Aztecs have one source. The French have one hooked up source, and another source in territory captured from the Iroquois. The Indians have two sources, neither of which are hooked up. The Babylonians have a source, which also isn't hooked up. So it looks like there's exactly eight sources of coal. Hmm...I notice we haven't started on Wall Street yet. Why not? Maybe we're looking to build it after we have factories, I suppose. I consider changing Persepolis from cavalry to Wall Street, but decide we need the defenses.
(1) 760AD: I use the draft to skim some troops off some of our cities. Now, is it worth it to try and hook up Ghandi's coal for him? We would need 5 native workers to hook up a mountain in one turn. That means we would have to mass 10 native workers at our border, ready to go before we start. This would probably take about 5 turns. It seems to me that it would take about 6 turns to get to the further coal source from our border. My analysis is that India is likely to get one or both sources hooked up by the time we do (I'm not sure how the AI prioritizes hooking up resources), but we should probably send the workers in, just to make sure; it's too risky to just assume they will hook both sources up (and sell them to us!).
(2) 770AD: The Aztecs send a longbowman into our territory; we have a RoP agreement with them, but I have a bad feeling about this. Troops head towards the area, and the city the longbowman is headed to, Istakhr, drafts a rifleman, even though it's happiness is fairly borderline. The Iroquois have been left with just one city; uhh...we have a deal selling them silks. It'll run out in one turn though, let's hope they can last that long! I buy a worker off them for 30 gold.
(3) 780AD: Babylon and Rome sign a military alliance against Japan. The French have destroyed the Iroquois. When are deals calculated? This could be nasty...and nooooooo when we try to trade the French saltpeter for Communism they "would never accept such a deal" and tell us "Not after the way you treated the Iroquois, X-Man". This is a disaster! And all for just one turn left on our silks deal. Also, the Iroquois were paying us about 50 gold a turn from other deals, and now we've lost those payments. Nasty, nasty stuff.
In other news, the Aztec longbowman marches past our city, I shadow him with a conscript rifleman and veteran cavalry. We trade saltpeter to the Japanese for 16 gpt. The Babylonians have now hooked up their coal; but the Indians have still hooked up neither source. Worker force is still massing on the Indian border. The Japanese coal source has fallen into neutral territory, as Kagoshima falls to the Romans. If the Romans get it under their control, then we can buy it off them. For the moment, we sell Rome spices for 20gpt.
(4) 790AD: France and Rome sign a military alliance against Japan. The Japanese really are going to get wiped out this time. The Indians are building the suffrage. We sign a RoP with India, and start sending workers in. The Romans really are growing pretty powerful; I don't think I've ever seen the Romans this powerful before in a game. And hmm...we still have 11 turns left on a silk and horses deal to the Japanese; but I guess that since our reputation is already stained, it won't make any difference, will it?
(5) 800AD: We discover industrialization, and Antioch is immediately struck with pollution; with not a railroad in sight. Ghandi has managed to hook up both of his sources of coal all of a sudden. Workers about face, we buy coal off him for 70gpt (he wanted 78gpt). On the trade front, our reputation hit really starts to bite. I'm sure we could trade the French Industrialization and Saltpeter in exchange for Communism, but of course they refuse, because of that horrid way we conspired to rip the poor Iroquois off. I'm not sure what to do about research, but I have to put the luxury rate back up to 10%, and with it that high we aren't going to be able to research anything at under about 15 turns. So, I set research to 0%, and go for the corporation with one scientist.
New Calcutta has managed to grow its borders, likely ending our chances of flipping it.
(6) 810AD: We start building our rail network, getting stacks of workers together, and doing the move-2-build thing towards our core. hmm...these Aztecs going through our territory are still making me feel a little uncomfortable.
(7) 820AD: We buy a worker off India for 22 gold and world map. The French still don't have Industrialization; maybe if we can get some money together soon, we can package some gold with it, and get Communism off them.
(8) 830AD: The Indians have completed Shakespeare's Theater. Pasagardae still has 5 turns to go on Universal Suffrage. hmm...the Japanese really are going to get wiped out; they're down to one city. We still have 8 turns left on a deal with them, if the Iroquois thing hadn't bitten us, this certainly would. The Babylonians, who we do not have a RoP with, move a knight into our territory; not sure where he's going, but I shadow him with some cavalry.
(9) 840AD: The Romans destroy the Japanese. The French declare war on the Romans. hmmm...this could get very interesting. I think the Romans will win the war though, taking most if not all the former Iroquois lands from the French. We trade the French saltpeter for ivory. If they don't at least have cavalry, they are going to get beaten very badly. We have one settler on standby to snatch up land that is vacant.
(10) 850AD: railroading near Pasagardare manages to get Suffrage down to 2 turns. Persepolis is 1 turn from a factory, after which I would expect it to start on Wall Street.
I am thinking that my decision to stop researching, and go for cash might have been a bad idea. I don't have much experience with this patch yet, and none at all in the industrial age. Sirian's call on whether to veto, and it only happened for 5 turns, which shouldn't affect us too badly, and we do have ~1500 gold to show for it, which we will need for Wall Street anyhow.
The big news was of course, the reputation stain we suffered, which seems *very* inequitable. I hate to be the bearer of such bad news, and it looks as though if it hadn't happened by one turn with the Iroquois, it'd have happened anyhow with the Japanese. I've actually written a proposal that I think Firaxis should consider adding to the game in this thread which would stop many such silly reputation stains.
850AD
-Sirp.
(1) 760AD: I use the draft to skim some troops off some of our cities. Now, is it worth it to try and hook up Ghandi's coal for him? We would need 5 native workers to hook up a mountain in one turn. That means we would have to mass 10 native workers at our border, ready to go before we start. This would probably take about 5 turns. It seems to me that it would take about 6 turns to get to the further coal source from our border. My analysis is that India is likely to get one or both sources hooked up by the time we do (I'm not sure how the AI prioritizes hooking up resources), but we should probably send the workers in, just to make sure; it's too risky to just assume they will hook both sources up (and sell them to us!).
(2) 770AD: The Aztecs send a longbowman into our territory; we have a RoP agreement with them, but I have a bad feeling about this. Troops head towards the area, and the city the longbowman is headed to, Istakhr, drafts a rifleman, even though it's happiness is fairly borderline. The Iroquois have been left with just one city; uhh...we have a deal selling them silks. It'll run out in one turn though, let's hope they can last that long! I buy a worker off them for 30 gold.
(3) 780AD: Babylon and Rome sign a military alliance against Japan. The French have destroyed the Iroquois. When are deals calculated? This could be nasty...and nooooooo when we try to trade the French saltpeter for Communism they "would never accept such a deal" and tell us "Not after the way you treated the Iroquois, X-Man". This is a disaster! And all for just one turn left on our silks deal. Also, the Iroquois were paying us about 50 gold a turn from other deals, and now we've lost those payments. Nasty, nasty stuff.
In other news, the Aztec longbowman marches past our city, I shadow him with a conscript rifleman and veteran cavalry. We trade saltpeter to the Japanese for 16 gpt. The Babylonians have now hooked up their coal; but the Indians have still hooked up neither source. Worker force is still massing on the Indian border. The Japanese coal source has fallen into neutral territory, as Kagoshima falls to the Romans. If the Romans get it under their control, then we can buy it off them. For the moment, we sell Rome spices for 20gpt.
(4) 790AD: France and Rome sign a military alliance against Japan. The Japanese really are going to get wiped out this time. The Indians are building the suffrage. We sign a RoP with India, and start sending workers in. The Romans really are growing pretty powerful; I don't think I've ever seen the Romans this powerful before in a game. And hmm...we still have 11 turns left on a silk and horses deal to the Japanese; but I guess that since our reputation is already stained, it won't make any difference, will it?
(5) 800AD: We discover industrialization, and Antioch is immediately struck with pollution; with not a railroad in sight. Ghandi has managed to hook up both of his sources of coal all of a sudden. Workers about face, we buy coal off him for 70gpt (he wanted 78gpt). On the trade front, our reputation hit really starts to bite. I'm sure we could trade the French Industrialization and Saltpeter in exchange for Communism, but of course they refuse, because of that horrid way we conspired to rip the poor Iroquois off. I'm not sure what to do about research, but I have to put the luxury rate back up to 10%, and with it that high we aren't going to be able to research anything at under about 15 turns. So, I set research to 0%, and go for the corporation with one scientist.
New Calcutta has managed to grow its borders, likely ending our chances of flipping it.
(6) 810AD: We start building our rail network, getting stacks of workers together, and doing the move-2-build thing towards our core. hmm...these Aztecs going through our territory are still making me feel a little uncomfortable.
(7) 820AD: We buy a worker off India for 22 gold and world map. The French still don't have Industrialization; maybe if we can get some money together soon, we can package some gold with it, and get Communism off them.
(8) 830AD: The Indians have completed Shakespeare's Theater. Pasagardae still has 5 turns to go on Universal Suffrage. hmm...the Japanese really are going to get wiped out; they're down to one city. We still have 8 turns left on a deal with them, if the Iroquois thing hadn't bitten us, this certainly would. The Babylonians, who we do not have a RoP with, move a knight into our territory; not sure where he's going, but I shadow him with some cavalry.
(9) 840AD: The Romans destroy the Japanese. The French declare war on the Romans. hmmm...this could get very interesting. I think the Romans will win the war though, taking most if not all the former Iroquois lands from the French. We trade the French saltpeter for ivory. If they don't at least have cavalry, they are going to get beaten very badly. We have one settler on standby to snatch up land that is vacant.
(10) 850AD: railroading near Pasagardare manages to get Suffrage down to 2 turns. Persepolis is 1 turn from a factory, after which I would expect it to start on Wall Street.
I am thinking that my decision to stop researching, and go for cash might have been a bad idea. I don't have much experience with this patch yet, and none at all in the industrial age. Sirian's call on whether to veto, and it only happened for 5 turns, which shouldn't affect us too badly, and we do have ~1500 gold to show for it, which we will need for Wall Street anyhow.
The big news was of course, the reputation stain we suffered, which seems *very* inequitable. I hate to be the bearer of such bad news, and it looks as though if it hadn't happened by one turn with the Iroquois, it'd have happened anyhow with the Japanese. I've actually written a proposal that I think Firaxis should consider adding to the game in this thread which would stop many such silly reputation stains.
850AD
-Sirp.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
The worst problem of the rep stain is not the loss of resources or gpt as part of tech trades. It's the increased likelihood of AI betrayals against us.
Don't worry about it. We'll cope.
Also, the forty turn push isn't going to happen, if I have my choice. If we get ToE, it's going to come BEFORE 40 turns, that's for certain.
- Sirian
Don't worry about it. We'll cope.
Also, the forty turn push isn't going to happen, if I have my choice. If we get ToE, it's going to come BEFORE 40 turns, that's for certain.
- Sirian
I must admit I wasn't aware that the reputation stain increases the chance of us being attacked; I guess it makes sense though.
At least it has occurred at this stage, rather than earlier; I think having a reputation stain at the beginning of the middle ages would *really* hurt.
At least it has occurred at this stage, rather than earlier; I think having a reputation stain at the beginning of the middle ages would *really* hurt.
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
IT: Changed most every city not building a factory over to factory.
Early: Suffrage completed, cascade interrupted. Coal Plant at Persepolis. Rails built on shield tiles at wonder-capable cities.
Middle: Joanie buys Industry from someone before I can arrange a suitable deal with her. Rails built on shields at core cities. Wall Street built at Persepolis (yes). Coal plant at Tarsus. Some factories complete and start hospitals.
Late: Bought Electricity from Ghandi @4th for a bit less than 4k. Traded the tech to Joanie and ~500g for Communism. Some deal renewals (big, BIG increase in price on dyes, for example). Some outgoing gpt payments cease. Military rail net complete. Rails on food tiles in core cities. More factories complete, start applicable next projects. A few new military units trained (I said a few, but that may be stretching the term. I'm sure you can find "a few" though, if you count that awesome new longbow unit twice). Lux tax abolished, some WLTKD's expire.
Ghandi used our cash (apparently) to buy Rep Parts @3rd from the Hammer, who then used it to buy SciMeth @2nd from Seizure. That's great news for us, as we can afford a tech @3rd, but no way we can currently muster enough to pay @2nd. Plus the AI's are staggered, so one good tech and a bit of spare cash ought to bring us into true tech parity finally.
Battlefield Medicine is due in Persepolis in SIX turns. You have five at ~600gpt income to amass enough to buy SciMeth, which means pinch every penny, no expenditures. If it looks like you might need one extra turn, you can delay BatMed. If you need more than that, let Batmed complete and use backup at Tarsus for ToE (and put Hoover in the capital). Preferably, it won't come to that and Hoover will follow at Tarsus a couple of turns after ToE is completed in Persepolis.
My guess, we'll need ~5k to buy SciMeth @3rd. 4k @4th. We have 1800g and ~600gpt income, which in five turns may just cut it.
The Aztecs are dead weight, they still don't have rifle tech and may get steamrolled soonish. No cities changed hands that I saw on my turn, no chances for vulturing land (as Arathorn calls it). The only reason I can fathom as to why Rome hasn't started ToE yet is that they locked themselves into mobilization.
Silktown will need an entertainer for a bit, coming up soon. Don't forget to CHANGE the tech to Atomic before ToE completes. As soon as we have Hoover, uh... get us some military to replace these cardboard cutouts we have manning the walls. Heavy on defensive units (rifles, infantry, artillery) for starters. (And yes, if we don't have some rubber in that blasted jungle, I'm going to choke something ).
RBE1 Persia - 950AD
- Sirian
Early: Suffrage completed, cascade interrupted. Coal Plant at Persepolis. Rails built on shield tiles at wonder-capable cities.
Middle: Joanie buys Industry from someone before I can arrange a suitable deal with her. Rails built on shields at core cities. Wall Street built at Persepolis (yes). Coal plant at Tarsus. Some factories complete and start hospitals.
Late: Bought Electricity from Ghandi @4th for a bit less than 4k. Traded the tech to Joanie and ~500g for Communism. Some deal renewals (big, BIG increase in price on dyes, for example). Some outgoing gpt payments cease. Military rail net complete. Rails on food tiles in core cities. More factories complete, start applicable next projects. A few new military units trained (I said a few, but that may be stretching the term. I'm sure you can find "a few" though, if you count that awesome new longbow unit twice). Lux tax abolished, some WLTKD's expire.
Ghandi used our cash (apparently) to buy Rep Parts @3rd from the Hammer, who then used it to buy SciMeth @2nd from Seizure. That's great news for us, as we can afford a tech @3rd, but no way we can currently muster enough to pay @2nd. Plus the AI's are staggered, so one good tech and a bit of spare cash ought to bring us into true tech parity finally.
Battlefield Medicine is due in Persepolis in SIX turns. You have five at ~600gpt income to amass enough to buy SciMeth, which means pinch every penny, no expenditures. If it looks like you might need one extra turn, you can delay BatMed. If you need more than that, let Batmed complete and use backup at Tarsus for ToE (and put Hoover in the capital). Preferably, it won't come to that and Hoover will follow at Tarsus a couple of turns after ToE is completed in Persepolis.
My guess, we'll need ~5k to buy SciMeth @3rd. 4k @4th. We have 1800g and ~600gpt income, which in five turns may just cut it.
The Aztecs are dead weight, they still don't have rifle tech and may get steamrolled soonish. No cities changed hands that I saw on my turn, no chances for vulturing land (as Arathorn calls it). The only reason I can fathom as to why Rome hasn't started ToE yet is that they locked themselves into mobilization.
Silktown will need an entertainer for a bit, coming up soon. Don't forget to CHANGE the tech to Atomic before ToE completes. As soon as we have Hoover, uh... get us some military to replace these cardboard cutouts we have manning the walls.
Heavy on defensive units (rifles, infantry, artillery) for starters. (And yes, if we don't have some rubber in that blasted jungle, I'm going to choke something ).RBE1 Persia - 950AD
- Sirian
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Got it. Looks like we should nail TOE and Hoover's, probably both on Jaffa's turn. That is, so long as I don't do something stupid and mess up.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
A turn that saw many good things happen.
(0) 950AD Change nothing - our cities are in good shape!
(1) 960AD India wants to end our straight-up silks for furs deal; we have to add 12gpt to renew it. The fact that we're #1 in population is certainly making the luxury deals more expensive! Babylon starts TOE in the city of Babylon, which is size 19 and has plenty of hills/mountains around it. However, none of its hills/mountains are railroaded yet, so we should win the race easily even with the shield discount they will get.
(2) 970AD Rome also starts TOE this turn, in Neapolis. Neapolis is size 10 and has all plains in its city radius; it has no shot in hell of ever building the wonder. France and Rome sign a peace treaty. There is some significant open land to our west; I move our settlers towards it though an idiotic Aztec pike is sitting on our railnet and stopping me from getting workers over there to railroad our way to a perfect city site.
Will have to get them there next turn. Shockingly, Montezuma can pay us 15gpt for silks! We gladly accept. We are "getting close to a deal" on Scientific Method. Looks like our prebuild is going to last just the right amount of time.
(3) 980AD Nothing big happens between turns. I found a new city out in the open space. It's not in a perfect spot, as it will be fighting two Roman cities for cultural precedence, but Rome's culture is lower than ours and those cities are former Iroquois ones. I don't see any cultural buildings going there anytime soon from Caesar. We shouldn't need to worry about a flip there, so long as a library is rushed soon. And... I move another settler into position to found a city next turn that will get us an ivory luxury. It will be under major risk of a flip, but if it can save us the through the nose rates we're currently paying for luxuries, it will be worth it. And again, the only cities it will be under pressure from are former Iroquois, now-Roman colonies. We have enough money now, and get Scientific Method @3rd civ price from Rome for 2965g. TOE due in 4 turns (nice planning, guys!) I go to sell to
India... and realize that we just bought the tech at 4th civ price. Well, regardless we still got the tech. Since everyone else has it except France and Azteca, I trade it to Joanie for Espionage and some change.
(4) 990AD Frane and India start on TOE as well. Unless they can manage 125 shields/turn, they don't have a chance. Bunyan founded, giving us a native source of ivory (so long as it doesn't flip). Charsadda founded in a completely safe location, claiming more tiles for us. Library rushed in Altin Tepe. Everyone except for us has The Corporation; we seem to be down that tech (and any past it) and Replaceable Parts. Many cities are almost ready to switch over to military and end our extreme weakness there.
(5) 1000AD Nothing big happens. Libraries are rushed in our newfound cities. I make some money trading world maps around. The usual.
(6) 1010AD Our coal deal runs out, and we go from paying 70gpt to 75gpt to keep it with Gandhi. I switch to Atomic Theory in order to get the tech next turn.
(7) 1020AD TOE completes and gives us the techs we wanted. [dance] Tarsus and Persepolis switch some tiles around and Hoover's is due in 3 turns now. Really solid planning from the team to nail the three wonders we wanted - I'm impressed, to say the least. Oh yes, and now we have a tech no one else has.
Caesar gives us the best offer: Replaceable Parts,
The Corporation, 200g, and 218gpt. We have rubber! A source next to Tarsus and another near Samaria. A third source is in our territory but not hooked up. Now Atomic Theory goes to Bablyon for Steel, 50g, and 67gpt. France still lacks Replaceable Parts (and has no rubber either, ha ha) so I sell it to them for 127g + 43gpt. France is backwards in tech, in Communism, and has no money to buy rubber from us or anyone else. They could be a target in the near future. We are rich! Everyone else is virtually bankrupt now. Rome has Refining, but other than that we are caught up to or ahead of everyone else in tech. I will certainly
not trade away Electronics until the cascade from TOE ends. We may want to turn on research soon and try to get ahead of the others. But for the moment, we're looking really good on the tech front.
(8) 1030AD Our first Infantry complete all over the place. No new techs discovered; Rome expects us to trade him Electronics AND 2000g to get refining. Fat chance! With our income of over 1000gpt rolling in, I use roughly a thousand gold to upgrade a number of our forces to infantry. We can't do any trading at the moment, so we may as well upgrade our paper-thin military forces. Now we have a chance to stop an attack.
(9) 1040AD A number of infantry complete, and several cities finish marketplace/cathedrals to touch off WLTKD. Apparently it's good enough for a double palace expansion. Our workers have almost completed a rail network - and with Replaceable Parts they work amazingly fast now. I didn't notice it before, but we have another rubber source (not connected) next to Bunyan. That gives us 4 sources of a very, very precious resource. Someone out there is not going to have any, and that is a very nice thing indeed. Another 1000g (our income for this turn) sees us finished with upgrades and with 40 Infantry. Our defenses aren't made of paper any more.
(10) 1050AD Hoover's completes in Tarsus and sets off our Golden Age!!!![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
The rest of the turn is routine, using workers mostly.
Our situation at the moment is excellent, all things considered. Hoover's plus our golden age has several cities over or close to 100 shields/turn. We lack only the tech Refining, and still have an untraded Electronics to send around. There is nothing except military to be built in many of our core cities, but at least our outer ones will get some benefit from the golden age. My suggestion is to use our expanded commerce to push ahead and do our own research to get to tanks faster (hopefully); I have us set up to research Radio (7 turns, +26gpt) at the moment but no beakers have been put into that as yet. Caesar will trade us Refining if we really want it for Electronics, and we could research Combustion after that if desired. I suggest trying to get tanks quickly because it would be nice to be able to build some during our golden age, though that may not be possible with us sitting a few techs away at the moment. Perhaps the group can decide what to do with research (or even whether we should at all, though I think buying into techs is silly now with our "stained
reputation").
The obvious target to hit is France. They have no rubber, no saltpeter (we are supplying them with some at the moment and should cut the deal off), are in communism, and have no money to buy these resources or alliances. They also have some really nice wonders: the Pyramids, Sistine, and Smith's. If we go to war with them, we will not face anything tougher than rifles (on offense AND defense). Plus one of their colony cities in former Iroquois territory has a source of coal in it. I don't see any reason not to hit France as soon as we have adequate forces, and if we can build some tanks I can't see France standing a chance at
all. Kudos to the previous turns for setting up the wonders so nicely.
RBE1 1050AD
(0) 950AD Change nothing - our cities are in good shape!
(1) 960AD India wants to end our straight-up silks for furs deal; we have to add 12gpt to renew it. The fact that we're #1 in population is certainly making the luxury deals more expensive! Babylon starts TOE in the city of Babylon, which is size 19 and has plenty of hills/mountains around it. However, none of its hills/mountains are railroaded yet, so we should win the race easily even with the shield discount they will get.
(2) 970AD Rome also starts TOE this turn, in Neapolis. Neapolis is size 10 and has all plains in its city radius; it has no shot in hell of ever building the wonder. France and Rome sign a peace treaty. There is some significant open land to our west; I move our settlers towards it though an idiotic Aztec pike is sitting on our railnet and stopping me from getting workers over there to railroad our way to a perfect city site.
Will have to get them there next turn. Shockingly, Montezuma can pay us 15gpt for silks! We gladly accept. We are "getting close to a deal" on Scientific Method. Looks like our prebuild is going to last just the right amount of time.(3) 980AD Nothing big happens between turns. I found a new city out in the open space. It's not in a perfect spot, as it will be fighting two Roman cities for cultural precedence, but Rome's culture is lower than ours and those cities are former Iroquois ones. I don't see any cultural buildings going there anytime soon from Caesar. We shouldn't need to worry about a flip there, so long as a library is rushed soon. And... I move another settler into position to found a city next turn that will get us an ivory luxury. It will be under major risk of a flip, but if it can save us the through the nose rates we're currently paying for luxuries, it will be worth it. And again, the only cities it will be under pressure from are former Iroquois, now-Roman colonies. We have enough money now, and get Scientific Method @3rd civ price from Rome for 2965g. TOE due in 4 turns (nice planning, guys!) I go to sell to
India... and realize that we just bought the tech at 4th civ price. Well, regardless we still got the tech. Since everyone else has it except France and Azteca, I trade it to Joanie for Espionage and some change.
(4) 990AD Frane and India start on TOE as well. Unless they can manage 125 shields/turn, they don't have a chance. Bunyan founded, giving us a native source of ivory (so long as it doesn't flip). Charsadda founded in a completely safe location, claiming more tiles for us. Library rushed in Altin Tepe. Everyone except for us has The Corporation; we seem to be down that tech (and any past it) and Replaceable Parts. Many cities are almost ready to switch over to military and end our extreme weakness there.
(5) 1000AD Nothing big happens. Libraries are rushed in our newfound cities. I make some money trading world maps around. The usual.
(6) 1010AD Our coal deal runs out, and we go from paying 70gpt to 75gpt to keep it with Gandhi. I switch to Atomic Theory in order to get the tech next turn.
(7) 1020AD TOE completes and gives us the techs we wanted. [dance] Tarsus and Persepolis switch some tiles around and Hoover's is due in 3 turns now. Really solid planning from the team to nail the three wonders we wanted - I'm impressed, to say the least. Oh yes, and now we have a tech no one else has.
Caesar gives us the best offer: Replaceable Parts, The Corporation, 200g, and 218gpt. We have rubber! A source next to Tarsus and another near Samaria. A third source is in our territory but not hooked up. Now Atomic Theory goes to Bablyon for Steel, 50g, and 67gpt. France still lacks Replaceable Parts (and has no rubber either, ha ha) so I sell it to them for 127g + 43gpt. France is backwards in tech, in Communism, and has no money to buy rubber from us or anyone else. They could be a target in the near future. We are rich! Everyone else is virtually bankrupt now. Rome has Refining, but other than that we are caught up to or ahead of everyone else in tech. I will certainly
not trade away Electronics until the cascade from TOE ends. We may want to turn on research soon and try to get ahead of the others. But for the moment, we're looking really good on the tech front.
(8) 1030AD Our first Infantry complete all over the place. No new techs discovered; Rome expects us to trade him Electronics AND 2000g to get refining. Fat chance! With our income of over 1000gpt rolling in, I use roughly a thousand gold to upgrade a number of our forces to infantry. We can't do any trading at the moment, so we may as well upgrade our paper-thin military forces. Now we have a chance to stop an attack.
(9) 1040AD A number of infantry complete, and several cities finish marketplace/cathedrals to touch off WLTKD. Apparently it's good enough for a double palace expansion. Our workers have almost completed a rail network - and with Replaceable Parts they work amazingly fast now. I didn't notice it before, but we have another rubber source (not connected) next to Bunyan. That gives us 4 sources of a very, very precious resource. Someone out there is not going to have any, and that is a very nice thing indeed. Another 1000g (our income for this turn) sees us finished with upgrades and with 40 Infantry. Our defenses aren't made of paper any more.
(10) 1050AD Hoover's completes in Tarsus and sets off our Golden Age!!!
The rest of the turn is routine, using workers mostly. Our situation at the moment is excellent, all things considered. Hoover's plus our golden age has several cities over or close to 100 shields/turn. We lack only the tech Refining, and still have an untraded Electronics to send around. There is nothing except military to be built in many of our core cities, but at least our outer ones will get some benefit from the golden age. My suggestion is to use our expanded commerce to push ahead and do our own research to get to tanks faster (hopefully); I have us set up to research Radio (7 turns, +26gpt) at the moment but no beakers have been put into that as yet. Caesar will trade us Refining if we really want it for Electronics, and we could research Combustion after that if desired. I suggest trying to get tanks quickly because it would be nice to be able to build some during our golden age, though that may not be possible with us sitting a few techs away at the moment. Perhaps the group can decide what to do with research (or even whether we should at all, though I think buying into techs is silly now with our "stained
reputation").
The obvious target to hit is France. They have no rubber, no saltpeter (we are supplying them with some at the moment and should cut the deal off), are in communism, and have no money to buy these resources or alliances. They also have some really nice wonders: the Pyramids, Sistine, and Smith's. If we go to war with them, we will not face anything tougher than rifles (on offense AND defense). Plus one of their colony cities in former Iroquois territory has a source of coal in it. I don't see any reason not to hit France as soon as we have adequate forces, and if we can build some tanks I can't see France standing a chance at
all. Kudos to the previous turns for setting up the wonders so nicely.
RBE1 1050AD
Well, the French will probably have a decent amount of cavalry, since we've been selling them saltpeter for a while.
One thing they do have though, is coal; rather near our border if I recall correctly.
Are the Romans and French still at war? How's that coming along?
-Sirp.
One thing they do have though, is coal; rather near our border if I recall correctly.
Are the Romans and French still at war? How's that coming along?
-Sirp.
ErMaC
ƒVƒoƒŠƒ[ƒVƒ‡ƒ“ŽO‚ª‘åD‚«!
I just wanted to say all you guys are incredible players and I have been watching this thread intensely and it has improved my playing by leaps and bounds. Thank you so much for doing these Deity games - it's very exciting to read about and see all the different strategies you all have and how you work together. Good luck to all of you. Now go kick Joan's bootie!
egil
Chieftain
Now that I am busy with work/school again, hardly play Civ3 but try to keep up with the games run by, played by Sirian.
Sorry to hijack your thread, but RB Civ3 site is still down for, what happened or is it a new site?
Keep playing, love to read about your reasoning and your argument. Friendly game at great skill level!!
Sorry to hijack your thread, but RB Civ3 site is still down for, what happened or is it a new site?
Keep playing, love to read about your reasoning and your argument. Friendly game at great skill level!!
robehans
Warlord
Yes, There are 2 threads in the succession game forum that i follow... This one, and a game im playing... I think it is wonderful to read such great gamers report on an exiting game like this...
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
So our lurkers are speaking up? Glad to see you get enjoyment out of reading the game. I also closely followed several games played by good players in the past when I was relatively new to Civ3. I remember checking up on RBD7 and LOTR1 each day to see what the expert players were up to - it's a nice memory.
Sirp, I believe that France and Rome signed a peace treaty during my turn, but I can't remember for sure. There didn't appear to be any cities changing hands, so I wasn't paying attention too closely. And for the warmongers out there... fighting a war on Deity isn't like falling out of bed. France is the best target, but with the 60% shield discount the AI civs get they always throw a ton of units at you. We will be able to win, but we need more preparations first, like building a good 50 artillery. So don't expect to see any action in the next 10 turns at least.
Glad to see you get enjoyment out of reading the game. I also closely followed several games played by good players in the past when I was relatively new to Civ3. I remember checking up on RBD7 and LOTR1 each day to see what the expert players were up to - it's a nice memory. Sirp, I believe that France and Rome signed a peace treaty during my turn, but I can't remember for sure. There didn't appear to be any cities changing hands, so I wasn't paying attention too closely. And for the warmongers out there... fighting a war on Deity isn't like falling out of bed. France is the best target, but with the 60% shield discount the AI civs get they always throw a ton of units at you. We will be able to win, but we need more preparations first, like building a good 50 artillery. So don't expect to see any action in the next 10 turns at least.
