RBE DSG1 - The Uncanny X-Men

The RBCiv homepage switched IP addresses last weekend, in an emergency sort of move. The site was back up within hours, but the DNS changes have to make their way around the net. My ISP got the new address long about Wednesday, as did most others, but in a few cases, the new address may still not be available.

CivFanatics itself just went through this, too, a couple weeks ago.

I hope that explains the down time. Keep checking back in, the site IS there, just that your internet provider hasn't figured out where the new location is yet. That should correct itself soon.


- Sirian
 
(0) 1050AD Heh. New Calcutta actually got some culture at last? Okay, I'll build a cathedral in Istakhr instead of a bank.

Rush-build universities in Kandahar and Bunyan.

Cancel the saltpeter for ivory deal with France, especially since we now have our own source of ivory.

Trade Electronics+690g to Caesar for Refining.

Of course, we don't have any oil. Wheee :crazyeye:

Trade Refining to Babylon for 175gpt+5g+WM (all he can afford).

Start research on combustion at 100% science (and still making +34gpt).

Train a tax collector to prevent rioting in Behistun. Don't quite understand how tax collectors make people happier, but still :)

(1) 1060AD Pasargadae starts on building us some artillery at a nice one-per-turn rate (and, later, so do Sidon and Gordium).

Workers clear jungle and build railroads.

(3) 1080AD Babylon now has oil available for trade.

Caesar calls about our luxury trade with Rome. Price of gems has gone way up -- I decide to do without, just sell him silks for 15gpt.

Persepolis completes Battlefield Medicine, starts on Intelligence Agency. I exploit the evil scroll-ahead during production cycle to check on happiness without gems :satan: -- Antioch needs to run an extra entertainer until it finishes its colosseum.

(5) 1100AD We learn the secrets of Combustion. Rome already has it.

(7) 1120AD India and France sign an MPP. Hmmmm.

We finish the Intelligence Agency. Spies planted everywhere except Babylon and India, who caught our agents.

(10) 1150AD With Motorized Transport due in 3 turns, I trade Combustion to Babylon for Oil (+14g+TM).

Workers have railroaded pretty much everything there is to railroad, and have gone to holiday camps in the mountains. Some native workers volunteered to be returned to citizen status.

Our artillery is stacked in Pasargadae.

Rome has Flight, and hasn't yet got Mass Production.

1150AD
 
(0) 1150AD: ahhh so nice to load the game and see our civilization well-defended at last!

(1) 1160AD: blah

(2) 1170AD: The Romans have managed to get their fingers on Mass Production, and we still don't have flight. The French now have a little cash (44gpt) to spare.

(3) 1180AD: We discover motorized transport. I set us to research radio, at 80% science - 6 turns, +320gpt. Mass switch over to tanks, in all cities that produce 100+ shields per turn, and in cities that produce just over 50 spt. Strip a tile away from Persepolis and give it to Tarsus, and both cities can churn out a tank every turn.

The Romans aren't willing to trade flight for motorized transport! In fact, they still can't see any way they would sell us flight. Both the Romans and Babylonians are willing to give us a hefty price for motorized transport, but I think we'll keep it for ourselves, thanks guys.

(4) 1190AD: blah

(5) 1200AD: blah

(6) 1210AD: The French have obtained a source of rubber from someone - the Romans or Indians; they have infantry defending their cities.

(7) 1220AD: The Romans and Babylonians have managed to get their filthy mits on motorized transport.

(8) 1230AD: The Aztecs and France sign an MPP.

(9) 1240AD: We discover radio, and trade it to the Romans for flight, 70gpt and a source of gems. This puts us into the modern age, and of course we get ecology. I didn't think I'd sell ecology, but the Romans give us an offer that's just a little too good; 671gpt. I take it, and use the cash to fund going for synthetic fibers in 7 turns at 412gpt.

I decide Sardis, Tarsus and Gordium will produce planes, and set them to building airports.

(10) 1250AD: our golden age ends. Back to cities taking 2 turns instead of 1 to produce tanks. Our military includes 110 infantry, and 45 tanks. We are considered to have a strong military compared to every other civilization, except the Romans, compared to whom we have an average military.

We should now have a strong springboard for an attack on a target of our choosing. The Babylonians would certainly be the easiest target, since they don't have any MPPs and are not particularly powerful. They also have a source of oil, just two cities deep. Of course, I'm sure we could take out either the Romans or the Franco-Indian alliance if we chose to.

1250ad

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Sirp
Of course, I'm sure we could take out either the Romans or the Franco-Indian alliance if we chose to.

actually, thats the Franco-Indian-Aztec alliance now isn't it? :lol:

This game is really fun to read and watch guys, I'm also learning lots. Now only if I could beat a Deity game... :lol:
 
Not a great situation here. My hands are pretty much tied. We don't have police stations at all, so weariness would take us down too quickly. We can't touch Rome, and all this tech trading has sped us right on past the motor age. It's going to be modern armor vs mechs for the most part, with us racing to get the job done before the nukes start flying.

I decided to get Computers first. We can't build modern armor without aluminum anyway. One turn of tech investment lost, but we'll make that up and maybe then some with the labs.

Rome is really strong. I wouldn't have traded these AI's my tech lead for their deflated spread-around techs, but that may not have worked out any better than this, with Rome as they are. Their FP may be in a good location. We might be able to win without taking them on, but it would require that we mop up ALL the others.

Since this is going to last a while, I swap everything to Mass Transit. Might as well get out from under the oppressive pollution.


1255AD: Babs sign MPP with India. Not good. We could easily pull in everybody but Rome against us with an attack on any of the others, now.

Tanks against infantry in metropolis cities is not pretty. They lose a good bit more than they win. Vs mechs, very bad. Their two movement hampers advancement through ancient cities with their level four culture. The difference between two and trhee movement is staggering. Panzers are head and shoulders above standard tanks: they can move a tile and still attack twice, making for a LOT of elites and rapid blitz. Modern armor is the same way. Cavs can't blitz but have the movement. Tanks are more plodding.

1260AD: Babs bought Radio from Rome? They didn't appear to have much of anything free last turn. Oh, it gets worse. They didn't pull Ecology. They pulled Rocketry. So now instead of parleying our Ecology into Rocketry also, we've got the (admittedly nice, but still less valuable) gpt payments from Rome. We really should have gotten more out of this tech lead, but now we're no longer in the lead. I hope to trade Computers (gah, did I SAY that?) before they nab them.

1285AD: Nope. They researched computers the same turn that it came in for us.

In hindsight, what would have been best (IMO) would have been to ally with Rome vs the rest of the world. Or vice versa. Split these AI's up, shut down the tech whorehouse, and get some war into the history books. Isolate Rome from the other AI's one way or another, to keep them from handing down their lead and using the other AI's to fuel their continued efforts to catch up to us.

Water under the bridge now. Rome's going to be Wall to Wall to Wall mechs by the time their deal with us expires. When I have a tech lead I tend to play a strat involving attacking the strongest rivals, but in a situation like this... it is often better to take out the small fry before it's too late and they catch up in military tech.


I got us our mass transit systems, our police stations, and our labs. I built some forts on high ground along our border and manned them. I upgraded all our infantry.

Our oil deal has expired. Sulla gets his pick of whom (if anybody) to renew it with. Babs still have MPP with India, and taking them both on right now looks unwise to me. France and Aztecs would make for softer targets. DON'T bring anybody in vs the Aztecs, though. We want to grab all their lands ourselves, while we can.

Just goes to show that a great start can still hit a bump in the road if you lack for modern resources in your territory. No coal? No oil? With ALL this desert we claimed and all this jungle and hills?? Good grief. Don't be shocked if lack for aluminum and uranium too. Heh. The rep stain also hurt us -- they really DO need to fix that up better. It's one thing to try to close a loophole from those who may be selling to civs with a foot in the grave just to get a free lunch, and something else to penalize honorable players who get caught in a ridiculous situation, like some AI they are trading with committing suicide by attacking a strong neighbor and then dying out swiftly.


This ain't going to be a pretty finish. Really not much sense attacking now until we get the last little bit of the way to modern armor. Trying to get Rocketry without costing us all our limbs will be a problem. Also, the location of the aluminum may affect our targetting. Plus we have to watch our weariness. Armors are really good in that dept: less need for lots of artillery barrages, which are what increase weariness the fastest.

If we get a leader, we need an army. If there is anywhere in the game that armies are the most useful, it's modern warfare, armor vs well-entrenched mechs, cuts the casualty rate way down. Not talking one army, though. Many.

I will be surprised if we finish this one without some major nuclear exchanges happening first. If we don't make good progress quickly (vs the weaker civs, before they can afford to upgrade all their infantry), we may even need to go for the missile defense, although under the new tech penalty that might be unrealistic.


RBE1 - Persia - 1300AD


This is going to be fun, but I'm glad I only have to play 1/4 of it. :)


- Sirian
 
My plan was to beeline to synthetics, get modern armors, probably before anyone else got synthetics or computers - particularly with the biggest Civ, Rome, paying for our research, and thus cutting down on their own. Even if the other civs had obtained computers, they wouldn't have enough money to upgrade to mech infantry in a hurry.

Then we'd probably have been able to take out at least two civs with a lightning assault - modern armors slaughter infantry. I do agree that trading off our technologies the the AIs might have been a mistake however.

Also, with our reputation stain, no-one wants to ally with us; and mpps are difficult to get.

-Sirp.
 
The AI's researched computers first thing. I'm NOT used to seeing that. Perhaps their programming has been improved to downgrade Space Flight and Fission when those victory conditions are disabled?

Nevertheless, I thought they would pull the same free tech we did, Ecology, but they didn't. They got Rocketry. I thought we'd have to research that, too, at first civ cost, and that computers would speed things along, overall.

Rome is just too strong, though. They are researching too quickly, backed by ALL the other civ's gpt. So it may not have mattered any way we slice it.

I anticipated a few things wrongly for what the AI would be doing, and had my hands tied for the war options I would have liked to undertake. Not my best round, but we'll see what Sulla does. He can have armors by the end of his turn if he catches all the right wind in his sails.


- Sirian
 
You mention in your turn report that the AI got computers the same turn you did. I have noticed this also in a lot of games of my own since patch 1.29 came out. (Some AIs get the same tech as I on the same turn)

In addition you remark in your report for RB6 that you had a considerable problem with maintaining a tech lead in the latter stages of the game. I have also noticed this.

I have a theory that the AIs put a lot more emphasis on espionage then they did before. It may (for them) be considerable cheaper to "steal" techs then either buy or research them. This can be a real problem since as far as I can see they make their attempts between turns making it very hard to stop/trade without making defensive spies before hand.

Gotag
 
For the question about espionage: I know in 1.29 the computer uses it to steal techs.

I did a test of this one time. I had just discovered like Fission I think, and the same turn the french got it. So as an experiment I reloaded the last turn, took my spy in France's capitol and told him to uncover an enemy spy. He succeeded, no cover lost either. This time when I discovered Fission the French didn't have it.
 
The AIs have stolen tech since at least 1.16f. I've actually caught spies a fair number of times, when they were trying to steal tech. It really REALLY made my first deity space race win dicey.

I don't know if that was the case in this particular game or not, of course, but I know that stealing tech *is* an AI tactic, and has been for some time.

Arathorn
 
If that is so, where do they get the money from? Gosh, I have to pay upwards of 5000g a pop to even try to steal a tech in the late-game, and I've never had the AI get that much without me giving it to it; which it blows the very next turn on useless trades...
 
(0) 1300AD First order of business is to see whom we should be going after. It looks like France and Azteca are the best targets, since they lack MPPs with everyone else. That could change though. We need oil to build just about everything, so I get it from Gandhi and also acquire the useless Amphibious Warfare tech in exchange for Ecology. We're already getting coal from India, so we certainly shouldn't pick a fight with them anytime soon. Now I can continue building more tanks and bombers. Our spies tell us we are more than powerful enough to crush France if we fight them isolated. 5 turns to Synthetic Fibers.

(1) 1305AD Massive completion of units, at least 10 of them. I keep most of them on what they're building. I don't understand what Sirian was doing with the workers, as there are small bunches of them all over the place; probably cleaning up pollution. Well I send them to one location near the capital to make things easier. Not sure what the submarines we built are doing either, but I moved them anyway. ;)

(2) 1310AD We can bump the science slider back a bit and still get Armor in 3 turns, saving us over 100gpt. France has gotten Motorized Transportation this turn and jumped into the Modern Age. Nowhere close to Computers though (I hope).

(3) 1315AD Rome moved a TON of units across our narrow bottleneck of land in the east, about 50 in all - mostly cavalry. I very strongly doubt we are the target (they wouldn't have walked right past our cities), but I move some of our excess mechs over there anyway. Looks like they are going for India - should be interesting.

(4) 1320AD Ohhhh, boy. Now this is interesting. Rome is definitely coming after someone, as they are moving all their units into Indian territory, then using their ROP with India to send their units into our territory. Either they are going after us, or they mean to sneak attack France or Babylon. I have no idea which. Their attacking force will be cut to shreds if it is us that they are after, but I won't move against it until I know for sure. So I have a ton of tanks set up to shadow their forces and make sure they don't do something stupid like attacking us. Gandhi is willing to pay good money for Computers, but I consider it more important to deny the AI civs that tech for as long as possible.

(5) 1325AD It does not look like Rome is after us; rather, it seems as though they are trying to reach one of the other civs behind us. I am very much not comfortable with the fact that they have about 70 units on our territory, however. Asking them to leave though would almost certainly result in a declaration of war though, so what can you do? *sigh* Synthetic Fibers comes in; since we need Rocketry for aluminum to get armor, I trade it to Rome for Rocketry, 450g, and 164gpt. It's not as though we could have kept them from getting it soon anyway. And guess what - no aluminum anywhere in our territory, or even close to us! I have never had this much territory and been lacking for so many resources in a game. Granted, we are playing with only 7 other civs on a large map, but still... :( France has aluminum near our borders though. Hammurabi sells us Aluminum along with 100g and 67gpt for Synthetic Fibers. Science to 0% (do we really need any more techs? We can always buy them, in any case), so we are at +1796gpt. All but two tanks that are in our outer colonies are upgraded to armor. We have 15 turns until our oil and aluminum deals run out, and I mean to secure our own sources of them before those come up for renewal. France is the only civ other than Azteca that does not have Computers and mechs. I plan to hit them hard and as fast as possible. We have almost 60 armors and over 120 mechs, plus almost 50 artillery and a number of air units. It will be messy, but it will get done.

Sorry, I only got 5 turns in at this time. As I'm sure you know, the game takes much longer in the Modern Age, managing all those units. I will get the next 5 in as soon as I can, hopefully today and if not then tomorrow.
 
The worker stacks were mining over now-unnecessary irrigation, in most cases. My micromanagements continue for as long as I can shave a turn off unit production or insure unit completion against pollution (if pollution adds a whole turn to a unit that only takes two turns to build, well, that's not good). In some cases, they were cleaning up rails in unused tiles. Might as well, and not idle the workers until even the lowest priority jobs are done.

Some cities that had been allowed to grow way past their tile allotment had settlers trained out of them to shrink the pop, and mining done to the max to increase production. We have a pack of settlers in Antioch and so much food there (13 flood plains) that city alone can produce enough settlers for the rest of the game, even if we raze a lot (which we SHOULD do, except maybe the cities near enough to the FP to count for something). Just build one or two settlers in between other projects, peeling off those surplus population as they come in every other turn now.


The subs have two purposes: "safe" scouting, and also anti-sub detection (enemy subs) for our fleets. We could stand to have a couple more, although admittedly on Pangaea the significance of naval units is somewhat diminished.

One thing is that along the coast, using a transport or two can speed some invasions by giving us the chance to land a force at a shoreline location of our choosing. Not a prime tactic, but you plop down a mech or armored ARMY in the enemy back line, with a stack of units, and you can disconnect all manner of their resources, raze a key city, or even just camp out and let the units take potshots (ZOC) to wound most passersby. Often you can do so with complete impugnity with the army units, as the AI's are programmed to avoid them and attack other targets (wise in one sense, but a flaw that can be capitalized on -- the AI just does not coordinate its activities. Each unit operates wholly independent of the capabilities of all other units. The next generation of gaming AI's needs to get some better "squadron" mentality going, to conduct operations with multipronged or combined-forces objectives).


- Sirian
 
(6) 1330AD First of all I have to find all of our armor and put them in a stack so I know where they are! Then there's the matter of shifting some mechs around in cities to make sure Rome doesn't do something silly like attacking us. France has a MPP with Azteca, but that certainly is nothing to be afraid of. I ask France to evacuate their troops or declare war... and they DO! Wow - can't remember the last time an AI civs actually did do that. So I try to steal the French world map at a low success rate... and I succeed! OK, this sucks. Our spy then tries to steal the world map again, is caught and killed. Finally, when trying to replant the spy Joanie declares war on us. Next time I will just declare the war myself. :crazyeye:

Aztecs of course immediately join in the war by MPP. Bordeaux captured, as it is only size 7. Probably going to need to raze just about everything though. Aztec town of Grand River captured, since they have pitiful culture. It was embarrasingly defended by a rifle, a pike, and a spear. Rennes, a size 4 French city is captured. Dijon razed, as it is simply too large to keep. We get some artillery there as well, not bad. New Persepolis is founded on the same site with one of our stored settlers (Antioch is set to produce more of them, too). We now possess both coal and aluminum, by the way. Poitiers razed as well, and a city refounded on the same spot. Brest, a size 20 city, is most certainly razed and replaced. Marseilles, a size 21 city, is razed and replaced. We are accumulating quite a bit of foreign workers! That's as far as I can go this turn; the border with France has been pushed back a city-length the whole way.

(7) 1335AD A very long between turns. Rome moves its cavs back the way they came; I have no idea what they're doing now. The French move some cavs out of Indian territory and nab some workers - what were they doning there? Aztecs move some units into range that are easily killable. The great city of Rheims, size 27 and with mountains of culture, is razed this turn. When fighting French units that strayed into our territory, we get our first leader (Darius)! [party] He forms an army of course, and promptly wins a battle; Heroic Epic due in 3 turns in Persepolis.

(8) 1340AD Rome finally decided what to do with all those units: they sneak attacked us. No cities lost, but we lose our luxury deals. I use scroll ahead to prevent total chaos in our cities (this is definitely a fair usage of it). We are now at war with three other civs. Ouch. But Rome was out to get us it seems, so what could we do? We need some help, because otherwise in another turn or two Bablyon and India will be against us as well. Rocketry goes to India in exchange for a military alliance against Rome. It locks us into twenty turns of war with Rome, but if India were to go against us... Yeah, not pretty. Then spices go to Bablyon in exchange for a military alliance with France. Our fight with France is to the death right now, so that's no big deal. France will never last a full twenty turns. Now Gandhi and Hammurabi are polite with us, and (hopefully) are not going to declare war on us. The first bout of war weariness kicks in as well; we may need to go to Monarchy soon. Maybe. With luck we can ride this out in Republic.

No chance to push an attack into France this turn, as I need to kill off the 100 or so Roman units in our territory. Cyrus pops up this turn and rushes the SETI project. I also killed a Roman army of 3 mechs that was troubling us. Did I say Rome had a ton of forces in our territory? They HAD a ton of forces in our territory... ;) Another leader popped up as well as was used to rush the Heroic Epic in a coastal town that had no shields towards anything else. And even as I type that, Darius appears again. He rushes a library in Grand River; may as well save 112 gold. As punishment for their sneak attack, I raze the Roman city of Kahnawake (whatever) which had no fewer than 15 bombers in it at the time. :mwaha: And we now have oil too, thanks to taking that city. Nice. The Roman city of Kente was also razed this turn - first one we had to attack that was guarded by mechs. Only one armor died assaulting it though. From here on, I want to fight a defensive war with Rome and an offensive one with France. We'll see how that goes. French city of Kiohero captured, as it was only size 5. With that, this monstrous (90 minute) turn comes to an end.

(9) 1345AD Massive declarations of war everywhere. Bablyon declares on Rome and Azteca, India declares on France and Azteca. Every civ is now at war with at least 2 others, and the Aztecs are probably going to get killed before we can reach them. Nothing to be done about that though. When assaulting Avignon, another leader pops. He rushes an armor in a hopelessly corrupt city with barracks. Then a second leader pops two battles later! The 4th Darius on my turn also rushes an armor in a hopelessly corrupt city with barracks. Avignon is finally taken and razed after killing lots of infantry. Goigouen captured even though it is size 12, because it’s a French colony and we are running out of settlers to raze and replace. Bensancon, another French core city, is razed and replaced. No massive advances this turn, as many of our units are healing up from earlier battles.

(10) 1350AD Between turn attacks were weak this turn. Rome threw three 1hp armors onto a cav we had on a mountain – and all of them died as a result. Another Roman city was razed so that we could link up our rail network with Ura Tyube; it can now be reinforced and is unlikely to fall. Amiens was also razed and replaced this turn – we are really starting to run out of settlers and need to start building some more in corrupt cities. Neodakheat, a tiny Roman colony, is captured easily with our army. I rested a lot of armor this turn so Jaffa can attack when and where he desires. :)

Summary: We are advancing on all fronts, not at superhuman speed but a good 2-3 cities fall each turn. I’m razing cities over size 12 but trying to keep ones smaller than that because we only have so many settlers to raze and replace with. I would suggest setting Pasargadae and possibly some other cities to settler production next turn. I didn’t mobilize because we need to rush libraries in cities – and the goal is domination, not conquest so we need the border expansions. I tried to organize our forces, but they’re really spread out all over the place. Our air units are congregated in cities on the border with France, and our artillery is jumping all over the place as different areas are threatened. I have been sending units to Dariush Kabir to heal, in the hopes of establishing some kind of order. If you’re looking for units, try looking there. No culture flips as yet since we’ve been careful, so let’s cross our fingers and hope for the best. France will be dead by the end of Sirp’s turn, and Rome may be in serious trouble by then. The turns are taking forever though, so turn off animation if it doesn’t bother you (I can’t play without the animation – too weird). We may want to go to a 5 turn rotation, because the last 5 turns took me about an hour each, and 10 at that rate is pushing it. Our world conquest has begun – let’s have fun with it! :goodjob:

RBE1 1350AD
 
Map time! :D

This is the French front. Progress here will be a bit slow, due to the massive cultural in most of these cities. The obvious next step is Bayonne, then jumping to Tours, but at some point in time we will have to push over the mountains and take Grenoble and Orleans. France is dying and is virtually no threat now.
RBE1_1350ADf.jpg



The Roman front is more open, since we are still dealing with their outlying colonies, but Rome has mechs and France does not so expect the going to be much harder there. Pick whatever targets you desire there. (We will be hooking up a wines luxury just conquered there next turn as well.)
RBE1_1350ADr.jpg


Our minimap shows the considerable progress we've made, but it will take a lot more land to finish this game off.
 
Five turns optional is fine. Ten is also fine. One or the other, though. Don't play six. :)

- Sirian
 
I'm out of town over the weekend. Unless I have time to play tonight (very unlikely), I won't get to it until Monday.

You can wait, or skip me this round, your choice :)
 
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