RBE DSG4 - Beyond Deity

[Urugharakh]

Continued: sign Joanie to MA against Alex for dyes and get 12 gpt from her.

Interturn: Joanie impales a couple of units on Alex island. Cathy demands tribut, which I give.

(4) 1090 AD: We take Eretria without losses and promotions. We finally own our continent. I start merging our native workers into our cities. 53 slaves are enough now, that we are almost done with improving our continent.

(5) 1100 AD: Everybody including Alex has steel. So we may make peace for the tech in case this is allowed.

(6) 1110 AD: zzzzz

(7) 1120 AD: We trade wines for dyes with Mao.

(8) 1130 AD: China, Russia declares war on Greeks due to their MPP with French.

(9) 1140 AD: zzzzz

(10) 1150 AD: We discover Radio, after Joanie and Cathy got it this turn. I trade it together with 117 gold to Liz for steel. At least our research wasn't too bad and we would have discovered it as 2nd with solid trade opportunities in case we would have started researching immediately. I have to agree, that stealing a tech would be more rewarding in case it was necessary. I simply forgot about this possibility, because I never was in a situation like RBE2 where I needed to steal something. So turning on research after we delayed it for 7 tuns was a (fortunately not very expensive) failure. Only Joanie and Mao have combustion.

Joanie landed some troops near Alex city. Hopefully Alex dies next turn.


@ next player, probably Zed-F: Thebes and Heliopolis will reach their maximum size next turn. Be sure to rearrange tiles with neighboring cities and swap tiles from growth to production. Courthouse in thebes will give 1 shield and 1 commerce according to similar situation in Giza. I have a couple of cities on wealth, because there is nothing more to do except police station (do we need one in our core cities?) and more military (we have at least almost enough unless we want another war and beat Mao). Once we have combustion, we should start working on a navy, but untill this is a case, I think wealth is good enough. We currently don't have spies. Be careful in planting them because of a couple of MPPs.


AD1150

 

[T-hawk]

Remember that a police station lessens war weariness in addition to reducing corruption. It's worth having them if a city has nothing else to build.

(I'm on vacation; can't play Civ 3 from here, so please skip me )

It might be time to try and provoke Mao into war by stealing tech from him, then get the rest of the world into alliances against him. That should slow down his researching. Or we could wait until we get the UN (assuming we're sure we can), and use that to spring into a diplomatic victory.

 

[Zed-F]

Got it, will play tonight or tomorrow during the day.

 

[Urugharakh]

Originally posted by T-hawk
Remember that a police station lessens war weariness in addition to reducing corruption. It's worth having them if a city has nothing else to build.

To my experience, police stations only reduce newly aquired war but not extisting war weariness. So unless we are adding a war or kill some more of Alex units/cities they are useless in the war weariness department. Maybe I'm wrong here. I never checked this in detail, but only from my memory of comparing war weariness the 2 turns after I build them. If I'm correct, they are almost worthless for us in our core cities until we are going to war again.

Concerning a chinese war, Mao has a couple of ongoing MPPs right now.

 

[Zed-F]

Urug, looks like you signed lux deals with China and France near the end of your turn, we have 17 turns left on them, and we didn't even need the lux to keep happy. Bad boy! Otherwise I wouldn't have had any concerns about signing everyone up to an MPP and taking one of them on, probably China. As it is, what does everyone think? Do we blow our rep even further and declare war now, or wait?

EDIT: I guess we could run spy missions until he declares on me, that might help things along.

 

[Urugharakh]

Originally posted by Zed-F
... we didn't even need the lux to keep happy.

Thats not correct. Otherwise we would need either more lux taxes or we would need specialists in our size 19 and 20 cities. Well, it might have been a failure signing the deals and running entertainers or a higher lux rate would have been the better move. My reasoning was, that we won't attack before tanks are available anyway, because cav versus infantry in metropolis is no fun even with artillery support. When I remember correct, Mao has no oil! Furthermore we would need a navy to cross the sea. I doubt our 2 ironclads and 2 galleons would ever reach the chinese mainland, when Mao has time to gather his fleet near our shores. So I expected at least 10 more turns of peace with the rest of the world and war should be started once we can participate actively in it.

 

[Zed-F]

I wasn't thinking we'd do any actual attacking in this war. The idea was to slow the AIs down, not really to go after them, at least not yet. We can do nicely just bombarding the occasional transport that comes our way and otherwise just sitting at home, defending our turf, and letting the AIs beat on one another.

However, I think we can get away with it anyway, if I can provoke Mao into declaring on us via Espionage and making him the deal-breaker.

 

[JMB]

I don't think it'll be too hard to get Moa to declare on us. He is already annoyed and is (in my experience) usually pretty quick to declare war...

JMB

 

[Zed-F]

Preturn: I make several adjustments to what's being built, start a lot of cop shops to mitigate war weariness, some factories in cities close enough to Thebes to be worth it. A lot of the Greek cities we captured in our first offensive are on the verge of being useful contributors shield-wise, though several infrastructure items remain to be completed in most cases which I would wrap up before starting them on military. Our Egyptian cities can handle the latter quite nicely for now. We start planting spies. I also sign up MPPs with England, France, and Russia, since we can get France to pay us at the moment due to the war with Greece.

Early turns: France wipes out Greece. Yay, no more war weariess! Lux tax dialled back to zero. I have to renew our lux deal with Russia -- their 2 lux for our 2 lux plus something like 60 gpt (ouch!) but that's less than the lux tax would be. Many cop shops complete and we start several destroyers. Thebes is putting out an infantry every turn -- this is a waste since it's getting 120 shields after corruption, but there's not much else available. I get spies in place everywhere, then start some rinky-dink sabotage missions on Lahore to piss Mao off. In one turn I lose 3 spies sabotaging that town's harbour, get Mao to declare war, then plant a 4th spy so we can continue to keep tabs on him. Mao sends a couple transport pairs our way but our artillery bombs them back to 1 hp, and sends them scurrying. I set up a neighborhood watch program with our cavalry anyway just to ensure they can't land without marines. France lands some troops on China's island south of us, not really doing any damage but pillaging a couple tiles.

Late turns: Lots of action with France attacking China. Several French destroyers are near the island to our south, escorting galleys. China of course has Ironclads but I expect those won't be much of a match for the French destroyers. England and Russian units, mostly Ironclads, are now starting to approach the Chinese mainland. We steal Mass Production and switch over from Destroyers to Battleships. Giza completes Battlefield Medicine and it and Heliopolis are now putting out an infantry every turn. We should probably build some artillery too but most of our inland cities are former greek cities and are still catching up on infrastructure, while our Egyptian cities are mostly concentrating on our navy at the moment. At the end of my turn China is willing to talk to us again, and we see that they have Amphibious Warfare, but of course with several turns left on our MPPs we can't do anything about that yet. It's not worth the cash required to steal.

My plan is, once the 20 turns on our MPPs expire, we cancel them, sue for peace, and let the AIs go at it. Of course, if the opportunity presents we *could* just cancel the MPPs and go on the offensive against China, but I doubt China's territory would be of much use to us, except if it looks like China is going to fold (unlikely in the near term,) in which case we would want to grab as much as possible just to make sure the other AIs don't get too big for their britches. Once we make peace with China we might want to send them some oil to keep their navy in the game.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbe4-egypt-1250ad.zip

 

[Zed-F]

Pic of our lands:

 

[Sullla]

I would suggest that we take that little island in the south from Mao, just because we can. He would potentially be willing to give us any techs he might discover if we took his colonies away though. Maybe it's not feasible, but I say if we have the military just sitting around - and we are already in a war - we should use it.

By the way, who exactly is up next? I believe it's Urugharakh, right? If it's my turn, someone please let me know.

 

[Zed-F]

No, Urug is before me. I think T-Hawk would be up next, but he's away, so I believe that makes you next, Sulla.

 

[Sullla]

Ahhh, is that so? Well, in that case I've "got it."

 

[Sullla]

(0) 1250AD I change very little from what Zed had set up. I rush aqueducts in our corrupt fishing towns, simply because I hate to see any city not growing. China has two ironclads off out coast. I wake up our artillery and blast them down to size. China's little island to our south looks nice, so I think we may as well take it from them. I start shuffling units and ships to take it. I spend about 1000g total, but we have 6500g and are making 800/turn; I think we can afford it.

(1) 1255AD Lots of fightin' going on among the AI civs, just from what we can see. Not much on our end of the deal though, as I simply prepare for an invasion next turn. Oh one thing - I investigate Anyang, our target for next turn. Mao is in anarchy (going commie, he he) and suffering REALLY badly from unhappiness. In fact, with no one to trade with, he's going through the level of unhappiness that leads to starvation. (See Sirian's Epic9 report against Bablyon if you haven't already) Anyang has 8 entertainers in a size 17 city, and will starve next turn. It only has 4 defenders. Definitely going to need to raze and replace Mao's cities that I capture.

(2) 1260AD We lose one source of coal and find two new ones. Moving resources are fun. Civ3 crashes when I hit F3; must be the advisor bug. Highly irritating having to move ALL of our units again... I land 5 full transports (40 units) over on southern island. We have more than enough units to spare. I also move most of Zed's shore patrol off duty; there is absolutely no danger of a naval invasion, and any units that do land would just be a change to get leaders. The other civs also have Flight this turn (Mao does not), so I buy it for cheap at 3785g from France, who has by far the best price.

(3) 1265AD Elizabeth demands rubber between turns. While a war against England is not desirable, we're not going to cave to her demands when England is on the other side of the ocean. Liz backs down anyway. Our artillery bombards all of the defenders in Anyang down to the red and then we send in the cavs. The city is taken and razed with a loss of only one cav (killed 5 infantry, pretty good!) The settler I brought with me founds a new city there. By the way... whoever has been using the queue feature please don't do it in succession games.

(4) 1270AD Not much going on. Preparing for another attack.

(5) 1275AD A second Chinese city is razed on the southern island. Only two more to go... More importantly, the AI civs have jumped into the Modern Age (very fast, since they just got Flight only 3 turns ago...) Even though Russia lacks Motorized Transportation, this tech is important enough to buy at 3rd civ price (and we can afford it easily anyway). I pick it up from Joanie for 3430g, roughly equal to 4 turn's income. Russia will pay nothing for it, and since I'd rather not see Cathy get her freebie science tech right now, I don't trade it. Also interesting is that for all their size, England and France both lack rubber... Lots of cities go over to producing tanks.

(6) 1280AD I razed another Chinese city, only one remaining. Russia entered the Modern Age and drew Rocketry as the freebie tech, France has it but not England. At the moment, we need more cash before we can buy or steal it.

(7) 1285AD Our tanks see action for the first time in the razing of Shangtung. South island is clear of all Chinese cities; too bad there's a bunch of Russian, English, and French units sitting there now...

(10) 1300AD Some quiet turns for a while... I set Giza (FP city) to a palace prebuild for the UN last turn. Remember that it's there so we don't accidentally build the palace there. We can buy into Rocketry, but I hold off so we can steal/buy Fission when the others get it. Our MPP deals can be canceled, and I suggest we do so and grab what we can from Mao. England has already made peace with China, further ruining Lizzie's reputation. If we want to attack someone, the next target is France. They have no rubber so they cannot replace the infantry that we kill, and we really need to take that ridiculous little island that they have in our territory. I might suggest fighting them just to get that island city. By the way, we have foreign units of everyone except China down on our southern island, so we should be able to get a war declaration from anyone at any time if we want it... Space race should be pretty easy from here on out; we could win by domination by going after the other islands, but that would get pretty grueling. We're starting to get a ridiculous amount of units, so we may want to switch some cities over to wealth soon if we're not going for large-scale conquest. Enjoy the game JMB!

RBE4 1300AD

 

[Sullla]

Map, or here's what I did on my turn:

 

[JMB]

Nice turn Sullla.

I've got it and should post sometime tomorrow...

JMB

 

[JMB]

(0) - Cancel MPPs, but don't make peace with China yet as they aren't willing to give us anything for peace. Kill a Chinese ironclad. Russia and China sign a peace treaty.

(1) - We sink three more Chinese ironclads. Chin made peace last turn, and already has bombers... Renegotiate incense deal with England. Incense for silks and 4 gpt (the deal was incense and 3 gpt for 2 luxuries...)

(2) - Take out 2 more Chinese ironclads and a transport. A bit of global warming last turn.

(3) - Nothing much. Our source of saltpeter by Eretia was exhausted.

(4) - Nothing much.

(5) - Nothing much. Nobody seems to be reasearching anything (actually, I think that Russia might be researching Space flight...) More global warming...

(6) - Nothing much. I have a feeling that Giza will be building an expensive tank (I thought about beginning research earlier, but it still would have taken us ~17 turns to learn fission). We have over 10000 gold in the bank and everyone has rocketry. Stealing it from the Chinese would cost ~3200 gold. Even at its cheapest, it would cost us over 4000 gold. I decide to steal it this turn to see if we are missing out on something. We get it. Joanie is the only one to have Space Flight and is unwilling to trade it for anything. Since it'll only cost us 3200 to steal, I decide to give it a shot. If Joanie declares war on us, we'll just take Troy... We get it. We sell Space flight to the Russians for 6854 golg and 27 gpt. Space flight to England for Amphibious war, 185 gpt and 900 gold. We have 12000 gold and are making over 1000 per turn. I decide that to begin some research on Computers; I hope we'll be the first ones... (in 12 at -30 gpt). The Russians want a ROP and MPP. I decline. The English begin the UN.

(7) - I wait a few more turns before trying to purchase Fission to see if it gets traded around (we have three more turns left on our prebuild. Troy is guarded by a rifleman... Hurry a marketplace in Pithom and Busiris. China and France sign a peace treaty. More global warming.

(8) - Nothing much. We lose a battleship to a Chinese one. War weariness jumps way up.

(9) - We'll make peace this turn after I kill off a few more of Mao's units. We sink three battleships, losing a destroyer and two ironclad in the process. We make peace with China and net 189 gold and 20 gpt. With only one more turn left on our palace prebuild, we try to steal fission from the English (it has yet to be traded around... And Lizzy is unwilling to trade it). For a cost of 3300 gold, we didn't manage to steal it. We did however manage not to get caught. I decide to try again (hopefully this isn't like planting a spy where trying more than once a turn is like throwing money away...) Same result as the last time. I decide to try one final time... If I don't we are screwed (wrt getting the UN). We succeed (whew! I was really getting worried...). Change the Giza to the UN. No one has anything to trade for Fission. We complete the UN. Begin a palace prebuild for spaceship related stuff.

(10) - I choose not to hold the elections. The next leader may attempt, if desired. We also might want to start a prebuild somewhere for Seti.

Here is the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBE4_1350AD.zip

JMB

 

[Sirian]

Troy!

Oh, and I guess Liz made good use of her shot at the Iron Works in London, eh? Because other than that, she had the worst looking start of the ones on that continent.

- Sirian

 

[Urugharakh]

The whole world is on peace again and only China dropped to communism. We are the tech leaders of the world together with Liz. To my feeling, this should be sufficient to win the launch race. But I have no launch experience at all and usually win via culture, military or diplomacy. So I may be wrong here. I'll continue peacefully unless sombody with the appropriate launching experience votes against it. Reading RBE2 again suggests some more AI wars might be necessary, but we are in a much stronger position here. I'll play tomorrow evening and like to hear some opinions.

 

[Sullla]

Our position is easily strong enough to buy techs as fast as the AI civs can research them. We won't need to encourage AI warfare like in RBE2 because our civ is in such a better position in every way compared to that game. I say to reject all demands and don't be afraid of war, but also not to seek it out (especially when the world starts getting nuclear weapons).