RBE DSG4 - Beyond Deity

[Zed-F]

I would be a bit more aggressive than Sulla, but generally he's got the salient points right. We don't really need for the world to be at war to win right now, and we want to avoid nukes being launched at us.

My POV would be to try and encourage the AIs to drop to communism, and thereby slow down their research, if we can do it without risk. It may not be strictly necessary, but (a) having them slow their research and cripple their cities via draft/whip certainly won't hurt, and (b) it's more fun that way. Having nukes lobbed at us definately constitutes risk, though, so don't do it if you think there's any chance of nuclear retaliation.

We might be able to get a vote win if China is the 2nd place contestant, but I'll leave it up to you guys to see if we should try it. I don't think it's a particular risk that we could lose right now providing we are careful to manipulate the diplo situation correctly, so it might not hurt to try. But, if it doesn't work out, that's not a problem.

 

[JMB]

If I were playing alone, I would probably take Sullla's route... (island invasions are a pain...) That said, I could learn a lot more about island invasions from the more agressive route. Does anyone know if the AI is more apt to use nukes against rivals on different land masses? (ie, is the AI more likely to nuke someone if they are on separate islands) One more thing about nukes is that we probably don't have too much to worry about for a little while because most civs don't (yet) have the capacity to build ICBMs (which comes with Satellites).

JMB

 

[Zed-F]

Well, I don't think we'd be doing a lot of invading if we did go an aggressive route. Our goal would be to get out of the war before ICBMs become a factor, which means 20 turns of war at most, at the rate at which the AIs are getting new tech.

 

[Urugharakh]

@JMB: I'm definitely not going for a naval invasion now. The correct timing passed. We had the opportunity doing so in our war with China, simply continuing warfare and keep all AIs on war too. Now its too late for our naval invasion and the game will not be decided by domination, because someone - hopefully we - will launch first.

@Zed-F (and all other of course): If I'm going to encourage war, I wouldn't choose China. Mao is behind now and still in communism. Even one war will keep him there, while an all against China campain will barely force the other AIs to communism, as they enjoyed democracy in the last anti China campain. If I organize a war, it would be against France or England, because those are our most dangerous opponents at the current stage of the game. So do we want to organize a anti England or an anti France campain or keep the world peaceful?

Nuklear strikes will be available very soon. Those ICBMs are cheap with the 50% discount and Manhatten will be online in a few turns. So I expect the first ICBMs at the end of my turn or during the early turns of Zed-F.

Still 18 hours to post ideas and suggestions.

 

[Zed-F]

I agree, China would not be the target of an all war campaign. I would not choose England as the target of opportunity, as (a) that would encourage them to wipe out Russia, (b) they are not the tech leaders right now (France is) and (c) we won't get Troy that way. That leaves France as the best target. Ordinarily I wouldn't pick on Joanie if I had another/better option, (she's usually so nice!) but in this case if we are going to war that's the best option. Besides, who was it that sneak attacked us when we were busy finishing off Greece, anyway... She needs a quick spanking this time around, to teach her not to mess with us!

Remember that in order to get ICBMs, France will still need Satellites. If we get the world in war against them, they will lose all lux they don't own, which will at least cause them to slow down research and at best force them into Anarchy. They would need to research Satellites on their own, and would also need both Uranium and Aluminum (I think they need both, yes?) before they can start building ICBMs. If they are missing one of the resources or choose a different research path, then no worries about them building nukes as long as they are at war with the AIs. Additionally, even if they do get a nuke going and decide to launch, it may not be at us if we haven't been doing the most damage at the time (so we take Troy quickly and then lie low.)

However, if you think there is still a real risk of them getting an ICBM or two and launching at us before we can make peace, then there's no real reason to gamble. We can forego spanking Joanie and be satisfied with beating her (in the space race, of course!)

The only reason to even consider war against China would be if we were going for a vote win, and then only to get votes from the other powers, and THEN only if we're confident China would be our opponent. I don't get the impression those conditions have been fulfilled, but if they have, then go for it if you like.

 

[Sullla]

If we fight anyone, it definitely should be France for the reasons Zed outlined above. The city of Troy is really bugging me... I say we exercise our Monroe Doctrine and gain full control of the western hemisphere. Hands off Joanie!

 

[Urugharakh]

Early turns: I start preparing for a possible french war and move our battleships into position. London finishes Manhattan. Joanie discoveres satellites, but still lacks fission. A couple of space ship parts complete. We start research lab prebuilds.

Mid turns: Joanie caves every time we force her to leave or declare war. She discovers fission in 1380 AD. I give fission to Mao for all his gold, 12 gpt, wines and spices to have the luxes available once our lux deal with Joanie ends and we declare war.

Late turns: We discover computers. Research set to ecology. Thebes switches to seti. I take one turn of cash before our research labs get online. We cancel our deal with Joanie and sign MPPs with everybody else earning some cash. Joanie still hasn't any nuclear weapons. We declare war on France. Everybody follows due to our MPPs. We raze Troy and rebuild it. We lost a battleship and 3 tanks till now.

Last turn: Liz discovered superconductors and Cathy discovered satellites. We can trade computers @monopol and a bit gold for satellites @3rd . No way to buy superconductors. When (or if at all) to trade computers and when to steal more techs might be critical. I might have missed the best opportunity the turn everybody got back their gpt payment to France. I could have gotten about 13k in total, but no tech at all. I refused without getting at least one tech, because it would save our opponents the required time for researching and save us no time at all. Our research is strong with seti online in 2 turns and Thebes still needs a research lab.


AD1400

 

[Zed-F]

Got it.

 

[Zed-F]

A quiet turn. We stole Superconductors from Lizzie and traded it to Cathy for Satellites. We then sold Satellites to Lizzie for some cash and Superconductors to Mao for what he could scrape together. We also researched Ecology and started on Synthetic Fibers at max rate (7 turns.) So far we are the only ones with Computers or Ecology. The price does not seem to be any less for either of those with anyone so it doesn't appear for the moment that the AIs are following that research path, but as always it's a bit of a gamble. We are currently bleeding a significant amount of gpt to maintain our research rate so it might be prudent to sell one or the other soon.

On the production front, we have 6 parts, and so do Lizzie and Cathy, while Mao has 4 and is working on another couple. We have Mass Transits in nearly all our large cities now, and are working on ICBMs both as placeholders for parts and just to have, in case of... emergencies.

Our MPPs expire in 7 turns. We will of course want to cancel right away. As for whether we stay at war with France or not, that's another call. Everyone can/has been building nukes now, but so far no-one's launched in our direction; I'm not sure about the other civs as I haven't traded maps around recently, but as far as I know no-one's decided to go nuclear yet. We whacked a few of her destroyers and transports and haven't lost any more ships, and in the last half of my turn things were quiet on the naval front. Of course we have not really ventured out of our territorial waters.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/rbe4-egypt-1450ad1.zip

 

[JMB]

Zed,

Looking at the save, it appears that we will have Synthetic Fibers in 3 turns, not 7. So, if the AIs are close to discovering Nuclear Power, it is possible that the game will end on Sulla's turn...

JMB

 

[Zed-F]

Sorry for not being clear, it was 7 turns to research total, 3 turns left. I wanted to give an indication of the speed at which we are researching tech.

 

[Sullla]

"Got it", but won't be able to play until sometime tomorrow. I have far too much work today that is due tomorrow morning...

 

[Sullla]

(0) 1450AD Everything looks good; for the first time that I've had the game, we control our entire continent. I disband two conscript infantry in the city at the former site of Troy so that we can get the temple there next turn. I don't like having a hole in our cultural border... On the diplo front, we can get mad cash from selling away one of our two techs. Since we are losing -343gpt right now on our own research, that sounds pretty good to me. It's no contest in deciding between Computers and Ecology to sell; keeping research labs out of the hands of the AI would be a very good thing. So here we go: Ecology to England for 1707g + 343gpt. (!!!) Ecology to Russia for 493g + 138gpt. Then to Mao for 1037g + 117gpt. Wow is that a lot of gold! Our economy can sustain 100% research at a +250gpt rate now. Hehe, we should have no trouble launching the ship now. Just three techs to go.

(2) 1460AD I turn down the UN vote. We'd rather not lose, thank you.

(3) 1465AD We discover Synthetic Fibers and start research into Nuclear Power (7 turns). And lookee here: Thebes has an ICBM due next turn, may as well switch that over to that 600-shield Exterior Casing. The other two parts are also switched to and will be completed next turn as well to give us 9 parts. No one else has more than 6. The game is so fast at this point, just clean up pollution and hit "next turn."

(4) 1470AD One of the AI civs got a tech we don't have: Russia has Advanced Flight.

(5) 1475AD We complete our first ICBM - just in case.

(6) 1480AD Wines and spices deals with Mao ends, and I pay the most I've ever paid for luxuries: 115gpt for the two of them. But we are still in the black, making over 100gpt and researching at 100%. That's all that matters.

(7) 1485AD Cathy makes peace with Joan. There goes any reputation she had... We can finally get out of our MPPs, so we do and sign peace with Joanie. In the peace deal, we get French gems in exchange for dyes and saltpeter. Can you say WLTKD? While we're on the subject of Joanie, she's taken a horrible beating in this war. China took one city, but more importantly the French island has been bombarded into a shell of its former self, and Joanie lacks coal to rebuild the railroads. She's finished as far as researching tech. England is the only remaining civ of any strength, and they are 2 techs behind us.

(8) 1490AD China and Russia picked up Computers, we are now only 1 tech ahead. (But we will get Nuclear Power in only 2 more turns.)

(10) 1500AD We discover Nuclear Power, start research on The Laser (7 turns). If we weren't under the extremely high tech costs, we would be getting 4-turn techs and would have already won some time ago... I use the scroll-ahead feature to swap Thebese to a nuclear plant and complete it this turn for fun; Thebes is now pumping 150 shields/turn. If only there was something to build other than ICBMs... which, by the way, we now own 9 of. China and Russia have 8 and England has 7, so try not to start a nuclear conflict...

JMB has only to hit "next turn" 7 times and swap production over to the last spaceship part in any city working on an ICBM. Barring an impossibly large mistake, we've won.

RBE4 1500AD

 

[JMB]

I've got it and will get to it either tonight or tomorrow...

EDIT: Well, seeings as there is so little left to do, this shouldn't take more than a half hour...

Here goes.

1510 AD, Russia and France sign a MPP. Renegotiate our Incense deal with England. Lizzie wants 30 gpt and our silks. Russia declares war on the English. I doubt that Cathy will do too well in this war... Next, she comes asking for an MPP and a ROP. I don't think so... Her response: "Well, what kind of deal would the cheap, penny-pinching Egyptian people accept, then?" I wonder who p!ssed in her cornflakes this morning... We should show her who's boss, but, since we'll be leaving the planet very soon, we take her insult in stride. As we leave this world (ie, the turn after winning...), we leave the Russians and our other very unfriendly neighbors several presents... China declares war on the Russians.

1515 AD, we turn down a UN vote (I wonder if we could win this way... Maybe I'll try it out after I finish with the "real" game). On an accidental misclick, I gift France Superconductors... It is late enough that this doesn't really matter. (I have made this mistake many times (trying to click on "nevermind", but instead clicking on "will you accept..." It would be nice if there were another screen to review your proposal...)

Russia wants to renegotiate our luxury deals. Unfortunately, for her Ivory and Furs even our Silks, Dyes, and 700 gpt is only good enough to get "We are getting close to a deal...) So, I give them Nuclear Power for Furs, Ivory, Advanced Flight, and 350 gold. That was a really weird trade... The Chinese request an audience and think that their TM is worth ours and Advanced Flight. I tell him where to go... He backs down.

1520, I trade Mao Advanced Flight for 190 gold and 141 gpt; Joanie offers 1290 gold for the same tech. Lizzie can only scrape up 3 gold for it... *smile* (we don't trade with her) Only three turns left.

1530/1535 AD, we learn the secrets of the Laser, build our planetary lounge, and launch our spaceship! (Mao did learn Synthetic Fibers last turn...) We scroll ahead and switch Thebes to the Planetary lounge. Victory!

Some pictures will follow in the next post...

Here is the file: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/RBEDSG4_1530AD.zip

JMB

 

[JMB]

Some pictures...

Here are the other civilizations after our parting gifts... *smile* (18 nukes: 5 to England and China, 4 to France and Russia)

And here is Egypt after their retaliation. Notice how the colour of the sun had changed from yellow to red...? *smile* We were hit with 3 nukes form France, 8 from England, 8 from Russia, and 10 from China.

The report from shadowland on the UN vote in 1515. Inconclusive. Our opponents were China and England and they voted for themselves while Russia and France abstained from voting.

JMB

 

[Sullla]

Victory!

We were able to do it after all. Special congratulations has to go to those who managed the early turns (Urugharakh) and set up our spectacular land grab, and also to those who fought out that first extremely dangerous war with Alex (Urugharakh, Zed, and T-Hawk). I had the game at mostly calm moments, which was fine with me! Another resounding victory, and now the RBE crew is 4 for 4 on Deity!

Those pictures that JMB posted were great. But I feel sorry for our poor civ in that last picture - just look what everyone else was able to do to us! That picture could be titled something like "When Deterrance Failed". Great job from everyone, this was NOT an easy concept but we managed to make it look that way.

 

[JMB]

Sulla,

Our civ was no more... We had all left for Alpha Centauri (or wherever) and had simply set our defense system to launch our unused ICBMs. *smile* (or at least that is how I played out the scenario in my mind. I realize that there really was no way that we could have fit our entire population into the space ship...)

I think the first war was probably the diciest (sp?) portion of the game and was happy to see that the players who followed me were really able to turn things around.

JMB

BTW, how do you insert the smilies? I tried to put several of them in my last post, but was unable to...

 

[Zed-F]

Good job, everyone!

Click "post a reply" (rather than using the quick reply box) and you will see the smilies list is available on the left hand side of the screen. There is a "get more" link for an expanded list of smilies in a pop-up.

 

[JMB]

Zed,

I tried that, but I wasn't able to insert them into the message box... Oh well.

JMB

 

[Zed-F]

The way you get a smilie in the message box is to type in the accompanying character string. For instance, a basic happy face is "colon-rightParenthesis" (without the dash.) A big grin is "colon-D". And, a smilie with a hammer is "colon-hammer-colon". The character strings are all described in the "get more" pop-up link, and if you hover your mouse over one of the smilies in the basic list on the left side of the screen, you should get a string-equivalent in your browser message bar (e.g. at the bottom of the browser window in IE, for instance.)

You won't actually see the smilie until you post or preview the message, however.