RBGC SG3: (almost) ALWAYS WAR!

[aviator99_uk]

Aviator studies the galactic map and wonders where to find his enemy, pausing briefly to look at the production reports spilling over his desk he calls his chief minister of weapon production over and quietly whispers that a year to make a corvette is far too long……….

JAN
start
set comm. Theory

Feb
set UT
Hero gets + 4 hitpoints.

Mar
Trade with Scotty:
Trade 1
set Industrial Theory
Apr
Move some planets onto Manu Ctrs, good production uplift when the population gets there, for little support cost. Make sure that the main planets are keeping 100% Morale.

May

June

July
half year blurb

Someone tells me that Scotty has built an economic Capital.

Aug
set for Nano Elec (Personally I do like grabbing Eyes if I can, even with sensors + 4)

Sep

Oct

Nov

Trade Scotty Int. Refining for Alt Grav
Trade 2

Dec

Time to go and prod a few slaves into action

The Game

Conclusion: nice to get a bit more manufacturing before we need it and it’s a pity Hero is still attack=0

Over to you Isit

Aviator

PS Hi Aaberg

 

[Isit]

I got it. I will try to get my turns up within a couple of hours.

 

[Brackard]

Now everyone here realizes this is a 24/48 rule right. That's 24/48 HOURS not minutes right?

 

[Zed-F]

Aviator, did you declare war vs. the Arceans and Drengin? If not, Isit will need to do so. (Gift Scotty with the war declarations.)

 

[Bam-Bam]

Note: why waste your time with inf. points in the trading? We left the UP LONG ago. Just a thought to save time.

Nice to pull a bunch of techs from the minors. That's more funds we can push into our pirate 'vette force.

We should trade or research controlled gravity soon--time to get the accelerators, then lauch our speed demon 'vette forces for some serious enemy harassment while we build up our core.

This is all about conservation--we need to squeeze the most out of our war machine, and then keep it running.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Aye--forgot about that, Zed. We will brook no further delay--the targets must know we are coming for them!

 

[aviator99_uk]

Isit-- You'll need to consider bringing another governor out, we won't be able to balance the books with Fusion plants all over. Meant to do it but forgot.

Aviator

 

[Bam-Bam]

Originally posted by Brackard
Now everyone here realizes this is a 24/48 rule right. That's 24/48 HOURS not minutes right?

Aye. We be an enthusiastic bunch. Our friends from across the pond can also help boost the speed of the game, which is why Zed suggested Aviator play now, since it is evening in the UK, and soon to be evening in the US.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Oh, and one more thing (TM)

Mr. Ford is no longer an alien scum spy.

 

[aviator99_uk]

Zed-- Would you believe I totally forgot to even look. Somehow I was already assuming we were at war.

My mistake, sorry.

Aviator

 

[aviator99_uk]

I was only using the IP points out of habit as an indicator that I had phasors and photons round the right way, no point in giving the stuff away, the fewer IPs they'll give you the tighter the trade.

Aviator

 

[Isit]

Firsts things first, I go to war with both the Drengin and the Arcean.

My main goal for my turns will be to get grav accelerators and keep us from getting kicked around too much.


Jan

Aviator has balanced out the spending bars masterfully so I simply move the Hero and watch the turn go by.


Feb

Earth now has a manufacturing center. I set the bars to 65% research and 35% military. Our front line planets need some ships ASAP. A single transport could take our systems and we have no ships to prevent that.


March

Hero moves again.


April

We get controlled gravity!

It’s not looking good. Even at 100% social and spending (which we cant maintain) it would take 17 months to build grav accelerators on our best planet! Our Morale is pretty good so I think I will just focus on continuing to build up our economy and defense. I go to 50% research and 50% military. All our planets are building corvettes. I am split between working on the battleship path or nano-metal. I decide to go for nano-metal. The two AIs are well behind us in tech and I think grav accelerators will be vital to us later on. The manufacturing capital we get with nano-metal may be key to getting them before anything else.


May

Just moved the hero some more.


June

The hero continues to pick up anomalies.


July

More hero type stuff.


August

Our first two corvettes are done!

I move one to the south and one to the north to keep watch over our frontier planets.

On another note, I turn off auto turn. I have had it get me in trouble when I am moving large fleets of ships. I will also move any ships by hand. I have had way to many ships blown up on autopilot to trust it with this tight a game.


September

Nano-metal is done, as are two more corvettes. I think they will be enough to defend us for now so I go to 100% social. Manufacturing center is setup on Xasica, which is tied with Earth for social production but is higher PQ meaning it will go higher as Earth's moral drops off.

I set all the other planets to build banking centers which I hope will help get our spending up. Manufacturing capital will be done in 8 turns at current spending. Fortunately neither of the AIs we know of has controlled gravity yet. That doesn’t meant another major doesn’t but it gives me some hope.


October

I start Hero creeping down the west side of the map, looking for anomalies.


November

More ship movement


December

We meet the Alarians. I had hoped to avoid meeting them for a while but I guess destroying a freighter isn’t a bad way to start off our war with them.

Jan

Game saved.


Notes:

The Arcean empire now has controlled gravity.

I had hoped to get further into it then I did but it was not to be. Hopefully they will dally on starting gravity accelerators. If they don’t then we should focus all our efforts on destroying them and hope they don’t pass it off to many other races. Most of our planets have their banking centers done.The next leader will need to switch the governors around, as we should be building anything production related other then a manufacturing center.

Our economy is starting to stabilize a bit. Once our planets finish building banking centers and entertainment networks there won’t be much left to build.

Our fleet:

Our fleet is currently deployed to protect our planets. We have two corvettes by the Drengin and two by the Arcean. I would suggest sending one from each group into enemy lands to target trade.

In particular lets get one up by the Altarian and try to prevent them from getting trade through to the southern majors.

I hope this screenshot helps to illistrate how our fleet is deployed and my suggestions.

A few other maps and screens of note:

The game:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbgc_sg4_2183.zip

Good luck!

 

[Aaberg41]

Got it....i won't be able to post it any sooner than in 12-13 hours.

Hope thats okay.

 

[Zed-F]

No problem, Aaberg!

EDIT: I just loaded the save, and found why Corvettes have been taking a long time to build. We are still Imperial! Aviator forgot to swap to Republic when he traded for Diplomacy. We will want to switch to Republic as soon as your turns start, Aaberg.

Funny thing is, the fast pace of the game is biting us back slightly, as we don't have a chance to check for these sorts of minor errors before they propagate. I'll still take the fast pace, however! I much prefer that to a game that drags.

@Isit: Going for Nano-Metal was absolutely the right call! We need to maximize our odds of getting Grav Accelerators before some AI buys them on the turn break. However, I think you uploaded the wrong save. I checked the save you uploaded and it's the same as the one Aviator uploaded at the end of his turn.

Everyone should try to remember to check for trades before your turn ends, or the AI may snatch them on the turn break due to the save/reload penalty.

 

[Isit]

One of these games I will get a post and game uploaded without any mistakes.

The correct game should be up now.

 

[aviator99_uk]

Can I offer some sugestions for 'rules of engagement' which some of us have been working towards to prevent unfair exploitation of the weakest points in the AI.


Observations:

The AI will build more powerful ships as it gets them and never seems to deliberately build anything else unless it is desperate to defend a planet and hasn't got the cash to buy what it would normally build.

The AI will almost always follow a ship forever if it is 2 parsec away, this means that a starfighter at speed 15 can easily lure a speed 5 overlord to the farthest corner by being 2 parsec in front and only moving 5 each turn.

So to avoid claims of downright simple cheating:

The Lure:

Ships of inferior strength which you want to retreat must do so with their full movement (unless that puts them in harms way). To 'Lure' the enemy on you must therefore use multiple ships in a fairly complex 'follow my leader' way which gives the AI maximum oportunity to break off and disengage. It's quite likely the AI will follow the original target until it is significantly out of range before looking for another target and attempting to pass it on to another lure is quite a skill.
It is acceptable (but 'dastardly') to attempt to lure the enemy into the teritory of another civ that it is at war with.
It is totally unacceptable to simply move a high speed ship in a circular North, East, South, West (or reciprocal) directions whilst keeping a slower but stronger enemy vessel executing the same circular movement inside it.

The Impass:

Ships of inferior strength and of identical speed can retreat until the edge of the map is reached, and if the AI hasn't broken off by then you will probably be toast.

The Invasion fleet:

The AI will occasionally send Transports to undefended planets deep in your teritory and this is an acceptable Lure, it is necessary and acceptable to defend that planet as you see fit, and if the AI stops its fleet in your space and doesn't move it's ships out of harms way then tough.
It is unacceptable to move a high speed defender from one planet to another in order to force the AI into never-ending oscillations.

Comments?

Aviator

 

[Zed-F]

Ok, checking the correct save, I see most things look good. We still need to swap to Republic, though, and we should take Fusion Plants out of the governor build queue -- we will need that cash for ship upkeep, not fusion plant upkeep. About the only places we will want Fusion Plants are Xasica II and Earth. We should also bump up Entertainment Center in priority; Manufacturing Center should really come after it, since our problem right now is getting more income, not spending it faster.

We only have 4 corvettes out, yet are not that far behind the others on the military power graph. So far, so good. Fortunately, we have several corvettes that are near completion. I think we'd like to get more than just a couple raiders out soon, but Grav Accelerators has to be top priority right now. Snagging Tristrontium from Earth is also a possibility - Eyes can wait a bit since the AI rarely researches Sensors quickly.

 

[aviator99_uk]

Originally posted by Zed-F
EDIT: I just loaded the save, and found why Corvettes have been taking a long time to build. We are still Imperial! Aviator forgot to swap to Republic when he traded for Diplomacy.

Ooops.

Aviator

 

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by aviator99_uk
Can I offer some sugestions for 'rules of engagement' which some of us have been working towards to prevent unfair exploitation of the weakest points in the AI.

<snip> see above for the remainder of the post...

I think that much of this can be avoided simply by remembering that a ship is in a given region for a purpose, as follows:

• Our raiders are not deliberately luring enemy ships -- they are on a search and destroy mission for soft targets. They should try to avoid combat when faced with a superior opponent, but not at the expense of being unable to fulfill their primary mission. Raider corvettes are expendable; if we lose a few by virtue of being in an exposed position after taking out a freighter route, so be it. That said, we do want to conserve resources, so if you think you can avoid combat and still whack the freighter, that's the right call.
• Our scouts are going to be acting as bait to some degree, but not to the point of diverting enemy ships indefinitely. Rather, they are going to be luring enemy ships to positions of strength (i.e. concentrations of our own fleet) so they can be destroyed. We can afford to have a large fleet of enemy ships flying around temporarily (sans transports) if we can't currently defeat them, but not indefinitely, and we'd prefer to avoid the situation in the first place. Since our scouts are going to be operating fairly close to home, I don't see a short lure to our own fleet as problematic. It's the equivalent of setting an ambush and trailing bait, a classic war tactic. We're not avoiding the fight, just fighting on our terms, rather than the enemy's.
• Our home fleet is, of course, not going to act as bait at all. If we are temporarily outmatched to the point where our home fleet has to withdraw from our planets to avoid destruction, (a) we're in trouble already, and (b) they will have to stay fairly close to use guerilla tactics and try to prevent transport incursions. I don't see luring being a problem here.

I think the key to avoiding an odor of fromage will be to remember the ship's mission when moving it, and to act according to that mission.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Well spoken, Aviator and Zed.

The key to avoiding GalCiv "AI du fromage" when it comes to ship combat tactics is to stick to OUR MISSIONS. Since we are not John Cleese looking for cheese, then even if our tactics lure the AI for a bit, it is because we are on our primary missions of raiding, scouting and setting traps where we can bring a decisive force to bear on the enemy. That is Sun Tzu, not cheese. It is also exactly how a good AW game plays in Civ--setting up kill zones to bleed the enemy while strengthening the homeland for a massive breakout.

What remains to be seen in this type of game for GalCiv is what the equivalent to artillery (probably starbases) and cavalry (not sure) is. That makes this game (and the solo one I am playing at present) very interesting, indeed.

And, had I mentioned how glad I am that you persuaded me to take sensor picks, Zed?