RBGC SG5: Training Day SHADOW THREAD
- Thread starter Bam-Bam
- Start date
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Ok. Another good turn. When you commented in the official thread about how our approaches were different, I guessed that this was your approach. Both are viable. You did good work squeezing in tactics at the end of your constructor build, and good work getting warp drive for basically peanuts. I probably could have traded for it to, but did not look for trades.
Your rationale for your choices is sound, but here is why I think grabbing some more tech is worthwhile. The techs I chose included tactics and warp drive (speed), which are prereqs for battleships. You got the same, and only researched one, so I think you did very well here. I also picked up the next government tech, which gives an economy and production boost. Hyperspace (speed) also opens up the hyperion manu center, which will further boost our ability to spam death knights and dreads out of earth more quickly. Democracy and alliances are also good techs to trade--or at least they give good value, though we may not be pursuing that route here.
The most important reason I chose not to spam constructors at this time is that we really only need military resources. Everything else is icing on the cake, but also is a drain away from resources to produce real attack ships. My thinking is to boost the economy/production base sufficiently that the few number of constructors can be built simultaneously with the fleet. If the AIs happen to settle the military resource(s), we can take it from them with a capital ship, followed closely by a constructor stack. There are also other things you can do with a few constructor stacks during warfare, but we'll leave that for future discussions.
So, overall you played a good turn, but an alternate method could allow for the same production of constructors (albeit later) during a shorter period of time. Overall, I think we are talking a 60-40 or 55-45 type of difference in advantage here, so both choices are nearly equivalent.
It is also a question of style. My strategy tends to emphasize consolidation and then application of overwhelming local or overal force, depending on the relative strengths. We have a large production and population advantage--why not take a year to make that and absolutely overwhelming advantage such that the war is completely decided before it starts? The reality is that there are many ways to skin proverbial cat.
Your rationale for your choices is sound, but here is why I think grabbing some more tech is worthwhile. The techs I chose included tactics and warp drive (speed), which are prereqs for battleships. You got the same, and only researched one, so I think you did very well here. I also picked up the next government tech, which gives an economy and production boost. Hyperspace (speed) also opens up the hyperion manu center, which will further boost our ability to spam death knights and dreads out of earth more quickly. Democracy and alliances are also good techs to trade--or at least they give good value, though we may not be pursuing that route here.
The most important reason I chose not to spam constructors at this time is that we really only need military resources. Everything else is icing on the cake, but also is a drain away from resources to produce real attack ships. My thinking is to boost the economy/production base sufficiently that the few number of constructors can be built simultaneously with the fleet. If the AIs happen to settle the military resource(s), we can take it from them with a capital ship, followed closely by a constructor stack. There are also other things you can do with a few constructor stacks during warfare, but we'll leave that for future discussions.
So, overall you played a good turn, but an alternate method could allow for the same production of constructors (albeit later) during a shorter period of time. Overall, I think we are talking a 60-40 or 55-45 type of difference in advantage here, so both choices are nearly equivalent.
It is also a question of style. My strategy tends to emphasize consolidation and then application of overwhelming local or overal force, depending on the relative strengths. We have a large production and population advantage--why not take a year to make that and absolutely overwhelming advantage such that the war is completely decided before it starts? The reality is that there are many ways to skin proverbial cat.
Rojo
Chieftain
Thanks for the explanation.
So I will watch the boards and see when we start up again, Hopefully Brackard will be up and running soon.
So I will watch the boards and see when we start up again, Hopefully Brackard will be up and running soon.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Aye. Brackard has the con for the next official round. When he claims it, lets all try to post shadows in a day, and get this puppy started again.
Brackard
Chieftain
(Note this is Shadow round for a turn or two back)
Ok, it's been awhile since I've been on.
I've had to reload Galciv, my ftp client, and a compressing agent this evening, just to get a chance to play. Oh, and this report is being written in notepad. I'm still trying to find my copy of MS Office. I haven't taken a real look at what everybody has done, so my upcoming reports will be from an 'unspoiled' state.
Now, off to the game.
We've got a whole bunch of money in the bank which I intend to use. The manufacturing Capital is due on earth next turn, the GSE in 19? No, that won't work. I'll end up changing that. Trade goods: Tri-tronium steel, aphrodesiac, and frictionless clothing are all still up for grabs. I intend to go for the tri-tronium steel.
We are currently the most powerful civilization. Tech-wise, we are down a few military techs. The Yor have grav accelerators, the Dren have diplo. The minors are worthless.
Still one trade route each with Alt and Torians.
Jan: I adjust spending to 100%, this increases time to get GSE to 11. Whoa, we're at 60% social. Let's readjust here. 100% social. GSE now down to 6. Off we go. Espionage set on all majors at 5bc.
Feb: Man capital comes in, along with 2 other improvements. Tri-stronim steel set for 4 months at earth.
Mar: More improvments come in. Waiting on the big stuff. Thebes III settled, pirate event, good option. (don't do business with pirates)
Apr: Social spending continues. Colony ship changed course to Hestia, a PQ 14 in Yor space. Sidal IV settled. No event.
May: Sidal II settled, no event. Social spending continued.
June: Tri-Tronium Steel produced at Earth. We are rated 110/100 on technology. We haven't spent on tech on what seems like forever.
July: Set earth to Frictionless clothing in 3. GSE due in 0. Spending cut back to keep GSE at 0. Will move on something different next.
Aug: GSE produced. Okay, my primary mission this round was completed with half a round left. What's next? Frictionless clothing seems like a waste for 3 (now 5) rounds of social spending. We are still neutral to friendly with everybody. I might as well continue my infrastructure push. I move ahead with research to get 0 grav manufaturing. This will allow us to get anti-matter plants. 200 rp needed, *100/120 = 166, set to 225 at 25% spending (100% research)
Sep: 0 grav gained. Social spree continues. Anti-matter planet put at bottom of governor. Spending set to 65% or neutral.
Oct: Caranoids grab Aprhodisiac. Glad I wasn't pushing for that one.
Nov: Adjust spending to get Frictionless in 2(+1). We win vote with 67 votes. Keep social going.
Dec: Social spending continues.
End of round: Frictionless due next year. Then we move on to other stuff. Technology-wise, we continue to fall a bit behind in the military branch, but our budget is enourmous. It won't take long to catch up. No real trades made at this time. Nothing overly exciting this round.
And the save
Ok, it's been awhile since I've been on.
I've had to reload Galciv, my ftp client, and a compressing agent this evening, just to get a chance to play. Oh, and this report is being written in notepad. I'm still trying to find my copy of MS Office. I haven't taken a real look at what everybody has done, so my upcoming reports will be from an 'unspoiled' state.
Now, off to the game.
We've got a whole bunch of money in the bank which I intend to use. The manufacturing Capital is due on earth next turn, the GSE in 19? No, that won't work. I'll end up changing that. Trade goods: Tri-tronium steel, aphrodesiac, and frictionless clothing are all still up for grabs. I intend to go for the tri-tronium steel.
We are currently the most powerful civilization. Tech-wise, we are down a few military techs. The Yor have grav accelerators, the Dren have diplo. The minors are worthless.
Still one trade route each with Alt and Torians.
Jan: I adjust spending to 100%, this increases time to get GSE to 11. Whoa, we're at 60% social. Let's readjust here. 100% social. GSE now down to 6. Off we go. Espionage set on all majors at 5bc.
Feb: Man capital comes in, along with 2 other improvements. Tri-stronim steel set for 4 months at earth.
Mar: More improvments come in. Waiting on the big stuff. Thebes III settled, pirate event, good option. (don't do business with pirates)
Apr: Social spending continues. Colony ship changed course to Hestia, a PQ 14 in Yor space. Sidal IV settled. No event.
May: Sidal II settled, no event. Social spending continued.
June: Tri-Tronium Steel produced at Earth. We are rated 110/100 on technology. We haven't spent on tech on what seems like forever.
July: Set earth to Frictionless clothing in 3. GSE due in 0. Spending cut back to keep GSE at 0. Will move on something different next.
Aug: GSE produced. Okay, my primary mission this round was completed with half a round left. What's next? Frictionless clothing seems like a waste for 3 (now 5) rounds of social spending. We are still neutral to friendly with everybody. I might as well continue my infrastructure push. I move ahead with research to get 0 grav manufaturing. This will allow us to get anti-matter plants. 200 rp needed, *100/120 = 166, set to 225 at 25% spending (100% research)
Sep: 0 grav gained. Social spree continues. Anti-matter planet put at bottom of governor. Spending set to 65% or neutral.
Oct: Caranoids grab Aprhodisiac. Glad I wasn't pushing for that one.
Nov: Adjust spending to get Frictionless in 2(+1). We win vote with 67 votes. Keep social going.
Dec: Social spending continues.
End of round: Frictionless due next year. Then we move on to other stuff. Technology-wise, we continue to fall a bit behind in the military branch, but our budget is enourmous. It won't take long to catch up. No real trades made at this time. Nothing overly exciting this round.
And the save
Brackard
Chieftain
(Note: shadow round)
Year 2186.
Hey look at that, we're still the most powerful in the galaxy.
Pre-turn, okay looking over what we have, we have 0 turns till Tri-tronium steel. We'll spend at least one turn to finish that off. Another note, we have quite a few planets that aren't building ANYTHING. Time to start teching here to give them something to do. Spending adjusted so that we could get Tri tronium next round but limit the bleeding. Espionage set to 1st tick on everyone.
Jan: Tri-tronium steel comes in. Okay, time to look at the battleship race:
We are:
-warp drive, interstellar tactics to Dren, Altarians
-interstellar tactics to Yor, Torians
In other words, we are losing the battleship race. A big thing? Not really, but still, it's about that time to get down to business.
The Dren have diplos, so it's almost worthless talking to them, let's try the altarians: my goal is to get warp from the altarians and trade it for interstellar....
Well, the Altarians are willing to trade for warp drive, at the cost of tri-stronium and improved enviro. I couldn't get interstellar tactics at all. We can research nearly 700 rp a round. war drive is 900 and would take 2 turns. Tactics, 800 and would be tihgt (800*100/120) = 666. Would have to run a slight deficite to guaranty getting in it one round. Battleship: 4500 * 100/120 = 3750. Thus taking around 7 rounds. I should be able to pull in battleship this year. Let's do it. The trading would only save us a round. Not worth it.
Feb: Surveying around.
Mar: Warp drive comes in. Try tossing it around, interstellar tactics is a no go for trading. Money is tight. Decide to go 2 rounds for interstellar tactics.
Apr: Surveying around.
May: Interstellar tactics comes in. Time for battleship. Dren up 0 grav manufacturing, meaning they weren't going for battleship. Poor dren. (yeah right). Battleship due in 6 or so. Will see how close we are and adjust accordingly to keep us in the +.
June: I look for the rest of my hard drive.
July: torian build econ cap, we are rated 121/100 on tech. Battleship due in 3.
Aug: New minor in the area.
Sep: We learn battleship. Whoa, I must have adjusted spending. I didnd't think it'd been in this fast. We are the first. Time to get a few other techs in before mass production begins. Let's start with 0 grav. Costs 166. Spending adjusted for no waste.
Oct: dren: econ cap, alt: man cap 0 grav comes in. Set for alliances, run slight deficite to get in 1 turn.
Nov: Dren and Torians: WAR!! Shooting for Star Dem in 1+1 turn. From there, on to destory, well the Dren!! Nobody else has Battleship.
Dec: Still looking for my hard drive.
Jan: Star Dem comes in. Low espionage on all parties comes in.
Let the games begin.
And the save
I can't hit another round tonight, but I'll hit it here shortly. I apologize for the delay.
Year 2186.
Hey look at that, we're still the most powerful in the galaxy.
Pre-turn, okay looking over what we have, we have 0 turns till Tri-tronium steel. We'll spend at least one turn to finish that off. Another note, we have quite a few planets that aren't building ANYTHING. Time to start teching here to give them something to do. Spending adjusted so that we could get Tri tronium next round but limit the bleeding. Espionage set to 1st tick on everyone.
Jan: Tri-tronium steel comes in. Okay, time to look at the battleship race:
We are:
-warp drive, interstellar tactics to Dren, Altarians
-interstellar tactics to Yor, Torians
In other words, we are losing the battleship race. A big thing? Not really, but still, it's about that time to get down to business.
The Dren have diplos, so it's almost worthless talking to them, let's try the altarians: my goal is to get warp from the altarians and trade it for interstellar....
Well, the Altarians are willing to trade for warp drive, at the cost of tri-stronium and improved enviro. I couldn't get interstellar tactics at all. We can research nearly 700 rp a round. war drive is 900 and would take 2 turns. Tactics, 800 and would be tihgt (800*100/120) = 666. Would have to run a slight deficite to guaranty getting in it one round. Battleship: 4500 * 100/120 = 3750. Thus taking around 7 rounds. I should be able to pull in battleship this year. Let's do it. The trading would only save us a round. Not worth it.
Feb: Surveying around.
Mar: Warp drive comes in. Try tossing it around, interstellar tactics is a no go for trading. Money is tight. Decide to go 2 rounds for interstellar tactics.
Apr: Surveying around.
May: Interstellar tactics comes in. Time for battleship. Dren up 0 grav manufacturing, meaning they weren't going for battleship. Poor dren. (yeah right). Battleship due in 6 or so. Will see how close we are and adjust accordingly to keep us in the +.
June: I look for the rest of my hard drive.
July: torian build econ cap, we are rated 121/100 on tech. Battleship due in 3.
Aug: New minor in the area.
Sep: We learn battleship. Whoa, I must have adjusted spending. I didnd't think it'd been in this fast. We are the first. Time to get a few other techs in before mass production begins. Let's start with 0 grav. Costs 166. Spending adjusted for no waste.
Oct: dren: econ cap, alt: man cap 0 grav comes in. Set for alliances, run slight deficite to get in 1 turn.
Nov: Dren and Torians: WAR!! Shooting for Star Dem in 1+1 turn. From there, on to destory, well the Dren!! Nobody else has Battleship.
Dec: Still looking for my hard drive.
Jan: Star Dem comes in. Low espionage on all parties comes in.
Let the games begin.
And the save
I can't hit another round tonight, but I'll hit it here shortly. I apologize for the delay.
Brackard
Chieftain
Hello? Anybody still out here?
Rojo
Chieftain
Yup I am still here. Did not realize you were back up and running. I figured you would be out of commision for the week. I assume, that is what everyone was probably thinking as Bam-Bam stated we would take a break until your problem was resolved.
Can we hold off until the weekend before starting up again folks? Let me know as I'll watch the boards more often now that Brackard is back.
Can we hold off until the weekend before starting up again folks? Let me know as I'll watch the boards more often now that Brackard is back.
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Ok. Brackard has posted his last shadow rounds, and the official game turn. I owe comments on all and my last shadow round. Rojo owes one shadow round. Let's say Saturday for the turns and Sunday for all comments and start the next round. Rojo will play the next official game turn (unless G-Force is still around).
As far as the rest of the game goes--I will be MIA on vacation from May 3-15. I can also say that my GalCiv interest has severly waned since I started up this game. Couple this to the reality that both Brackard and Rojo have been playing at a maso level in recent turns--there may not be all that great value continuing after a 2-week break. I do not want to abandon the game, but the real question is what return are we getting in our time invested in the game. I look forward to your thoughts on this.
As far as the rest of the game goes--I will be MIA on vacation from May 3-15. I can also say that my GalCiv interest has severly waned since I started up this game. Couple this to the reality that both Brackard and Rojo have been playing at a maso level in recent turns--there may not be all that great value continuing after a 2-week break. I do not want to abandon the game, but the real question is what return are we getting in our time invested in the game. I look forward to your thoughts on this.
Brackard
Chieftain
You could not have brought this up at a better time. I have vacation scheduled 4/28-5/5, and business trip 5/10-5/14. So, that two weeks would be pretty light for me as well. I'm never one to give up on the game, and I've really enjoyed this so far.
However, I wouldn't mind scrapping this game if everyone decides there's nothing further to gain. We are currently in a position in the game where the risk of losing is very, very unlikely so calling it a game isn't necessarily a bad thing. Bam-Bam, I have to admit I have learned a ton out of this game and want to thank you for hosting it.
Now if we scrap this game, what's the likelihood of getting together towards the end of May for a maso SG? I'm sure playing in the real thing would make a bit of difference (for me at least). AP should be out around then as well. Shall we call it quits till next month?
However, I wouldn't mind scrapping this game if everyone decides there's nothing further to gain. We are currently in a position in the game where the risk of losing is very, very unlikely so calling it a game isn't necessarily a bad thing. Bam-Bam, I have to admit I have learned a ton out of this game and want to thank you for hosting it.
Now if we scrap this game, what's the likelihood of getting together towards the end of May for a maso SG? I'm sure playing in the real thing would make a bit of difference (for me at least). AP should be out around then as well. Shall we call it quits till next month?
Rojo
Chieftain
Ok, it looks like the concensus is that we call it here. It appears that the people playing most are us 3 and as you have stated Bam-Bam, I have graduated to Maso and would prefer to focus my skills in that area. However in saying that, I have to say that I would not have graduated to Maso if not for this training game. I learned such a great deal in the early game, that it allowed me to attempt Maso.
I also would like to participate in a Maso SG and certainly want to move to AP. If you are game Bam-Bam, it appears you have 2 people already interested in a Maso SG in the May timeframe.
I also would like to participate in a Maso SG and certainly want to move to AP. If you are game Bam-Bam, it appears you have 2 people already interested in a Maso SG in the May timeframe.
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