"Real" vs. Civ 3 Terrain

[Ozymandias]

Something that's bothered me since I first played Civ3 1,000 years ago is the "Plains" Tile Type - because it doesn't exist, which (a) I think does a disservice to the game, and (b) could be readily rectified (see attached.)

While on the subject, I'm going to further venture into earth maps: they should all be truncated at the Arctic Circle . This would leave a lot more room for, oh, say, Europe and the Mediterranean. (I'd like to get around to this in some lifetime, but tempus fugiit and all that.)

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Nice map, Oz. When experimenting with Earth map modding, I was looking at using LM terrain to separate Grasslands and Plains into Grass/Savannah and Prairie/Steppes for North/South and East/West hemispheres. If the option becomes available in Flintockland to have multiple either/or resources as prereqs (like Civ4 has with bronze/iron), then we could add things like the Columbian exchange as well into the tech tree. But these are projects for the far-flung future.

 

[Takhisis]

I have to say that Civ3 plains, to me at least, look like ripe wheat. Golden!

 

[Ozymandias]

Nice map, Oz. When experimenting with Earth map modding, I was looking at using LM terrain to separate Grasslands and Plains into Grass/Savannah and Prairie/Steppes for North/South and East/West hemispheres. If the option becomes available in Flintockland to have multiple either/or resources as prereqs (like Civ4 has with bronze/iron), then we could add things like the Columbian exchange as well into the tech tree. But these are projects for the far-flung future.

Supa made a Savanna overlay Many Moons Ago, which I've attached,

 

[Ozymandias]

(like Civ4 has with bronze/iron),

I just reread this. I've not played Civ4; if I had, I'd probably have, " ; ; ," because bronze is an alloy of copper and tin ... OK, and, while I'm being metallurgically obscure, I've always wanted to find a way to work "electrum" into the game. It's a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver, mostly found in Anatolia (modern-day Turkey-ish) which, in the 7th Century BCE or so, was: "... much better for coinage than gold, mostly because it was harder and more durable, but also because techniques for refining gold were not widespread at the time."

 

[Vuldacon]

I've always wanted to find a way to work "electrum" into the game.

Well that is certainly doable Graphically

 

[Ozymandias]

Well that is certainly doable Graphically

Ya know, I had a funny feeling that you might say that

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

I just reread this. I've not played Civ4; if I had, I'd probably have, " ; ; ," because bronze is an alloy of copper and tin ... OK, and, while I'm being metallurgically obscure, I've always wanted to find a way to work "electrum" into the game. It's a naturally occurring alloy of gold and silver, mostly found in Anatolia (modern-day Turkey-ish) which, in the 7th Century BCE or so, was: "... much better for coinage than gold, mostly because it was harder and more durable, but also because techniques for refining gold were not widespread at the time."

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's copper in Civ 4. I was being obnoxious because Civ 4 looks like Phyllis Diller and has all the grace of Brando on the set of The Island of Dr. Moreau. Believe me, you didn't miss anything.

As for electrum, I thought it was common knowledge that it was worth 1/2 a gold piece and therefore 1/2 experience points a piece.

 

[Vuldacon]

As for electrum, I thought it was common knowledge that it was worth 1/2 a gold piece and therefore 1/2 experience points a piece.

Basically correct but that depends on when and where.
"The gold content of naturally occurring electrum in modern Western Anatolia ranges from 70% to 90%, in contrast to the 45–55% of gold in electrum used in ancient Lydian coinage of the same geographical area".

 

[Ozymandias]

What hath I begun! -

"In Lydia, electrum was minted into coins weighing 4.7 grams (0.17 oz), each valued at 1⁄3 stater (meaning "standard"). Three of these coins—with a weight of about 14.1 grams (0.50 oz)—totaled one stater, about one month's pay for a soldier. To complement the stater, fractions were made: the trite (third), the hekte (sixth), and so forth, including 1⁄24 of a stater, and even down to 1⁄48 and 1⁄96 of a stater. The 1⁄96 stater was only about 0.14 grams (0.0049 oz) to 0.15 grams (0.0053 oz). Larger denominations, such as a one stater coin, were minted as well."

As for:

Actually, I'm pretty sure it's copper in Civ 4. I was being obnoxious because Civ 4 looks like Phyllis Diller and has all the grace of Brando on the set of The Island of Dr. Moreau. Believe me, you didn't miss anything.

 

[Alekseyev_]

Civ4 is a good game, with many really good concepts and amazing modding capabilities. It's different from Civ3 in many aspects, and there are many things of Civ3 I miss in Civ4, but I don't think it's fair to discredit it like that. Its multiplayer implementation is also really good, compared to Civ3's rather meager one. There are also other good concepts that would be amazing to have in Civ3 modding (optionally), such as more fine-grained government values or alternative tech paths. Not to mention the whole attack bonus system, which could really spice up some Civ3 scenarios. (Pikemen good vs cavalry, archers having a bonus when defending from within a city etc.) Really wish there could be a fusion of both games.

I know this is a Civ3 subforum and I certainly played more Civ3 than 4 in my life, but I don't think such animosity is appropriate.

 

[Ozymandias]

Personally, I eagerly awaited Civ 4, with the assumption that it would be a worthily upgraded Civ 3.

Then I saw that I would need to learn 2 programming/scripting languages to mod it. And the graphic are terrible. It certainly has is virtues, and Civ 3 its deficits. But modders like @AnthonyBoscia, @Vuldacon & @Civinator have wrought miracles, and the "upgrades" being made by @Flintlock are awe-inspiring.

Reviews of the entire Civ series often state that Civ 3 is the "best of breed." So, I'll keep staying he, at "home."

 

[Takhisis]

What hath I begun! -

A scenario taking place in ancient Anatolia with electrum as a bonus, strategic or even luxury resource…? It could enable, say, a mint? Just saying.

 

[Virote_Considon]

I've always just figured that grassland = wetter climate, and plains = drier climate rather than strictly being distinct terrains in of themself.

 

[Ozymandias]

A scenario taking place in ancient Anatolia with electrum as a bonus, strategic or even luxury resource…? It could enable, say, a mint? Just saying.

Exactly!

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

Civ4 is a good game, with many really good concepts and amazing modding capabilities. It's different from Civ3 in many aspects, and there are many things of Civ3 I miss in Civ4, but I don't think it's fair to discredit it like that. Its multiplayer implementation is also really good, compared to Civ3's rather meager one. There are also other good concepts that would be amazing to have in Civ3 modding (optionally), such as more fine-grained government values or alternative tech paths. Not to mention the whole attack bonus system, which could really spice up some Civ3 scenarios. (Pikemen good vs cavalry, archers having a bonus when defending from within a city etc.) Really wish there could be a fusion of both games.

I know this is a Civ3 subforum and I certainly played more Civ3 than 4 in my life, but I don't think such animosity is appropriate.

Alekseyev, you may not know me well but I am prone to exaggeration and being a smart alec. Civ 4 has a number of good concepts and I understand very well why many people regard it as the best in the series. Its multi-player is much improved and of course its modding capabilities allow for much more expansive changes, though at the cost of accessibility. BTS especially was a huge improvement over the base model. I have read through the story at the end of the Civ 4 manual that Civinator has often quoted and ultimately I think that the changes the designers wanted to implement did not match the changes I wanted to see in a sequel. I could write an essay about this but I don't think Ozzy's terrain thread is the appropriate place. Suffice to say, I was not happy with some of the core mechanics and I thought the graphics were shockingly bad. But to those who enjoy it, play on.

 

[Takhisis]

Exactly!

For the new civ3 engine: TAM revamped - now with 62 possible civs!

 

[Virote_Considon]

For the new civ3 engine: TAM revamped - now with 62 possible civs!

And four different types of plains/grassland terrain - screenshot featuring steppes around Phocaea and Colophon up North, grasslands around Ephesus, plains around Miletus and Smyrna, and (placeholder) shrublands in the belt around Miletus-Cicysium-Ephyra

 

[Takhisis]

I don't even know what that is but I want to play it.

 

[Ozymandias]

How did I miss this? (rhetorical; I've sadly not had much time of late.) Not rhetorical: WHERE IS IT??