Realism Invictus

[Antmanbrooks]

Weird.

It isn't historical, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay, it's tedious, demanding, boring and not challenging.

If something had to be done, add unhappiness to the cities or abstract it some other way.

Even if it were THE BEST civic I wouldn't use it - I get enough playing whack-a-mole with rebels in Paradox games... I don't need another game where rebels pop up every turn or every other turn.

Thanks for the info, mate.

It doesn't take the in depth knowledge of a History Masters degree to uncover quite a few examples of peasant revolts.... this is a list of just the most famous one's. There's no doubt a lot more if you study it in enough depth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_peasant_revolts

So, yeah, it's very much unhistorical. Furthermore, it's bad gameplay. This is a grand strategy game - the key word is ABSTRACT. Add unhappiness or something and have only a few rebellions, but much larger in size representing those big, empire-threating rebellions a la Spartacus. Don't give me one or two rebel units every turn...

This is a good idea though and much better than just complaining about it.

No, and you can certainly try to, but this work requires the qualifications of a good programmer.

Damn, that's not me then! I assume it's still the long term goal to implement RevMod as stated in the FAQ's?

The system itself will stay, but we will indeed rework the chances and localizations to have fewer and larger rebellions. Although for slaves, the figures you give are more or less right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_rebellion. This article cites 250 rebellions in 3 centuries for North America only. So one per year is quite a nice approximation, and one turn takes many years early on. Serf rebellions, OTOH, were much less numerous and more severe ("peasant wars") - and we are going to reflect that.

This sounds perfect, I personally like the small revolts but making them less frequent and bigger for peasant revolts sounds like a step in the right direction.

 

[Sarmatian]

The system itself will stay, but we will indeed rework the chances and localizations to have fewer and larger rebellions. Although for slaves, the figures you give are more or less right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_rebellion. This article cites 250 rebellions in 3 centuries for North America only. So one per year is quite a nice approximation, and one turn takes many years early on. Serf rebellions, OTOH, were much less numerous and more severe ("peasant wars") - and we are going to reflect that.

This is a good idea, just keep in mind the micromanagement. Most slave revolts were small scale, local or regional at best. There's been only a few national, empire-threating slave revolts. You would hardly expect a Roman Emperor to deal with a local rebellion in let's say Britain.

Trying to represent accurately every time 250 slaves revolted against their owners is simply too miniscule to require active action everytime it happens.

When it comes to serfs, similar rule should apply but also keep in mind that when serfs revolted, it usually wasn't just because they were serfs, there was almost always another factor or factors, like famine, particularly bad treatment, religious differences etc...

Tying frequence of serf revolts to unhappiness, famines, pandemics, wrong religion penalty etc... would be a good idea, at least until 18th century techs and enlightment kicks in when it should be extremely difficult to have serfdom/slavery...

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Damn, that's not me then! I assume it's still the long term goal to implement RevMod as stated in the FAQ's?

Yes, it still is.

This is a good idea, just keep in mind the micromanagement. Most slave revolts were small scale, local or regional at best. There's been only a few national, empire-threating slave revolts. You would hardly expect a Roman Emperor to deal with a local rebellion in let's say Britain.

Trying to represent accurately every time 250 slaves revolted against their owners is simply too miniscule to require active action everytime it happens.

For now the system actually works quite well when it comes to effect - slaves aren't hard to put down under normal circumstances, but when a civ is at war with most troops assigned to frontline duties, or at the distant towns with no significant troop presence and roads, rebel peasants have a chance to aggregate and cause some real trouble - as it was historically. In terms of micromanagement, I found that 2-3 highly mobile dedicated troops can take care of most rebel problems if infrastructure is decent (light cavalry works best).

When it comes to serfs, similar rule should apply but also keep in mind that when serfs revolted, it usually wasn't just because they were serfs, there was almost always another factor or factors, like famine, particularly bad treatment, religious differences etc...

Tying frequence of serf revolts to unhappiness, famines, pandemics, wrong religion penalty etc... would be a good idea, at least until 18th century techs and enlightment kicks in when it should be extremely difficult to have serfdom/slavery...

Ideally it should be so, but we must remember that additional factors = additional calculations = performance loss. If it can be implemented without a serious performance impact, it would be fine. But we'll see that only when we reach the actual implementation phase.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

How fast is this mod evolving? It seems to be one of the most complete and well balanced mod's I've played.

I play C2C as well at the moment and that takes the kitchen sink approach but as a consequence it never feels balanced and certainly isn't anywhere near finished yet, but it's a rapidly expanding work in progress. One of the things that seems to handle better is large maps, but that might just be me?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

How fast is this mod evolving? It seems to be one of the most complete and well balanced mod's I've played.

I play C2C as well at the moment and that takes the kitchen sink approach but as a consequence it never feels balanced and certainly isn't anywhere near finished yet, but it's a rapidly expanding work in progress. One of the things that seems to handle better is large maps, but that might just be me?

Well, C2C is a compilation mod with all the associated strengths and weaknesses. We started out like that, but we passed that phase 3-4 years ago. Now that we have a relatively finished product on our hands, we still do a lot of work on our mod, but since we have to very carefully test all the changes, we do public releases 1-2 times a year only.

Many of our long-time players know that and use our SVN development versions (basically developer betas), others prefer to wait for the next public release. But rest assured we work on our mod quite a lot.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

Well, C2C is a compilation mod with all the associated strengths and weaknesses. We started out like that, but we passed that phase 3-4 years ago. Now that we have a relatively finished product on our hands, we still do a lot of work on our mod, but since we have to very carefully test all the changes, we do public releases 1-2 times a year only.

Many of our long-time players know that and use our SVN development versions (basically developer betas), others prefer to wait for the next public release. But rest assured we work on our mod quite a lot.

Cool, I'll have a search for the SVN thread now. I used to play this back when it was for Warlords only. I seem to remember that the city graphics in that version where slightly different though and scaled to the surrounding terrain really well? Was that your mod or am I just mixing up my memories?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Cool, I'll have a search for the SVN thread now. I used to play this back when it was for Warlords only. I seem to remember that the city graphics in that version where slightly different though and scaled to the surrounding terrain really well? Was that your mod or am I just mixing up my memories?

http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825 Here you are.

 

[NDU]

hello, shore bombarment doesn't affect island cities? i have the santa anna. i am trying to take an island city with it but it defenses continue to be 100% , the ship sais that it can lower defenses 6% per turn but it doesn't, can it be a bug? .

here it is. trying to take cordoba

http://www.woofiles.com/dl-302877-fEmBSmn9-ElizabethAD0572.CivBeyondSwordSave

i also have noticed something. i was using 3 man o war ships for lowering a barbarian city defenses and when i tryed to use a frigate it didn't lower nothing (only tryed once) , other bug?

EDIT: i have another question, i had my holy city in york (2nd best city) with the church of nativity and christianity as my state religion, but the hoy city moved to my capital London, its that normal?, i mean, christianity was my state religion and york and london where like 16-19 pop neighbor cities.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

Thanks.

I have Tortoise SVN already but when I start the process by clicking ok on the SVN Checkout I get the following error?

IMAGE REMOVED - fixed now!

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Try running the same program you ran as an administrator. If you're unsure how to do that, right-click the program and click "Run as Administrator".

 

[civman110]

In order to be a member of the Apostolic Palace shouldn't it be a pre-requisite for you to have the same state religion as the elected leader of this palace?

I am asking because in my current game Spain and Scandinavia are the only Jewish states. Spain built the palace and is therefore guaranteed enough votes to qualify for elections and has Judaism in every city.

Scandinavia only has 2 cities left, and just 1 with Judiasm. Scandinavia and Spain are the only civs with Judaism as a state religion. Almost every other civ has the same state religion as me (Taoism), or another religion and maybe 1-2 cities each with Judiasm in them, therefore Spain is automatically able to get everyone to declare "holy war" on all their enemies, and pass any resolution with just their votes alone.

Declaring a Jewish "holy war" on fellow Taoists just seems silly to me and keeps me wondering how any other civs with a state religion beside Judaism are able to be a member of the Apostolic Palace?

Also only a handful of civs and myself chose to "disobey the resolution" and be barred from membership. I noticed that civs were much more likely to remain a member and vote against every proposed resolution by Spain (who is guaranteed election every time) and be forced to declare "holy war" on strong allies that they were "friendly" with and have the same state religion (Taoism) as themselves.

Fortunately I selected civs "play to win" when i began the game, so the Taoist civs are at least smart enough to not give Spain a corrupt diplomatic victory.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

Try running the same program you ran as an administrator. If you're unsure how to do that, right-click the program and click "Run as Administrator".

It can't be that, I have used the program a couple of days ago and it worked. It's not the sort of program you can right click "run as admin" either as far as I know?

 

[flitz]

If you have done the svn checkout on the RI repository before you can just update your local copy with the according command.

Otherwise you can delete the Realism directory (or just rename it) and then redo the checkout again.

Or just remove the .svn directory inside 'Realism'. (Might be not visible, need to adjust the folder properties then)

 

[civman110]

It can't be that, I have used the program a couple of days ago and it worked. It's not the sort of program you can right click "run as admin" either as far as I know?

I also had this exact same problem awhile ago and I believe that this was what fixed it.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

If you have done the svn checkout on the RI repository before you can just update your local copy with the according command.

Otherwise you can delete the Realism directory (or just rename it) and then redo the checkout again.

Or just remove the .svn directory inside 'Realism'. (Might be not visible, need to adjust the folder properties then)

I have used the svn on C2C mod the other day? Not on RI. Will that be affecting it?

I also had this exact same problem awhile ago and I believe that this was what fixed it.

How do you run this program as an administrator? YOu just right click on a folder and choose SVN checkout. I don't seem to have the option to open a the program and run as admin?

 

[flitz]

I have used the svn on C2C mod the other day? Not on RI. Will that be affecting it?

If I understand you correctly, you have done a svn checkout in your mods folder to fetch c2c. This will also create the .svn directory which belongs to your local copy of the c2c-repository then.
Another checkout in that same directory should not be allowed as it would also try to create this .svn directory.

Better make a subdirectory in mods first, like RI, enter it and do the RI-svn-checkout there.
And the same with a subdir for other mods you wish to use svn for.

I just looked into it and I used svn for retrieving RI too. I just created a subdirectory in mods, called RI_svn, and did a checkout on
https://civ4mods.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/civ4mods/realism/bts/trunk/mod/
so it doesn't any unnecessary subdirs inside.
The .svn is then placed in my RI_svn dir, too and doesn't conflict with other mods I got via svn.

 

[Antmanbrooks]

If I understand you correctly, you have done a svn checkout in your mods folder to fetch c2c. This will also create the .svn directory which belongs to your local copy of the c2c-repository then.
Another checkout in that same directory should not be allowed as it would also try to create this .svn directory.

Better make a subdirectory in mods first, like RI, enter it and do the RI-svn-checkout there.
And the same with a subdir for other mods you wish to use svn for.

I just looked into it and I used svn for retrieving RI too. I just created a subdirectory in mods, called RI_svn, and did a checkout on
https://civ4mods.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/civ4mods/realism/bts/trunk/mod/
so it doesn't any unnecessary subdirs inside.
The .svn is then placed in my RI_svn dir, too and doesn't conflict with other mods I got via svn.

Weird, I tried what you suggested and it didn't work? So I setup a folder on my desktop called RI_svn and tried again. It worked this time? Must be something to do with checking out into the mods folder?

Anyway, so now I've got it downloading what can I expect that is new and under development in this svn version so I can hopefully be of use and offer feedback?

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

Weird, I tried what you suggested and it didn't work? So I setup a folder on my desktop called RI_svn and tried again. It worked this time? Must be something to do with checking out into the mods folder?

Anyway, so now I've got it downloading what can I expect that is new and under development in this svn version so I can hopefully be of use and offer feedback?

The way food production is handled in general - the new farming balance (note that 1 citizen now eats 3 food, and tech/civics can severely impact your farming effectiveness). Also, we've been rebalancing later-game artillery a lot.

 

[NDU]

We can offer nothing definitive on behalf of colonial civs currently, as it will all depend on where our development takes us. So for now, I think our policy will be to reserve our comments on this for some period of time. We may or may not be adding a lot of civs for the next release, but you'll never know until we're there.



I have never encountered anything like this. Would you please provide us with a savegame?

here it is. trying to take cordoba

http://www.woofiles.com/dl-302877-fEmBSmn9-ElizabethAD0572.CivBeyondSwordSave

i also have noticed something. i was using 3 man o war ships for lowering a barbarian city defenses and when i tryed to use a frigate it didn't lower nothing (only tryed once) , other bug?

EDIT: i have another question, i had my holy city in york (2nd best city) with the church of nativity and christianity as my state religion, but the hoy city moved to my capital London, its that normal?, i mean, christianity was my state religion and york and london where like 16-19 pop neighbor cities.

 

[Walter Hawkwood]

here it is. trying to take cordoba

http://www.woofiles.com/dl-302877-fEmBSmn9-ElizabethAD0572.CivBeyondSwordSave

i also have noticed something. i was using 3 man o war ships for lowering a barbarian city defenses and when i tryed to use a frigate it didn't lower nothing (only tryed once) , other bug?

EDIT: i have another question, i had my holy city in york (2nd best city) with the church of nativity and christianity as my state religion, but the hoy city moved to my capital London, its that normal?, i mean, christianity was my state religion and york and london where like 16-19 pop neighbor cities.

The file hosting you use somehow doesn't work for me. I get just 177 byte file when I try to download.