Realism Invictus
- Thread starter Walter Hawkwood
- Start date
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
[Y];12774216 said:
Can't load your save. Are you sure it's 4352? Also, 4352 was almost 200 revisions ago - it is a really really old revision.
Sorry, it was svn 4532, i mistyped.
I apologize for not catching the mistake as I posted.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
[Y];12774446 said:Sorry, it was svn 4532, i mistyped.
Worked fine for me. Could you have forgotten to repack assets after you updated?
Is there some way to only access the latest BTS version through the svn? Last time I tried the svn it seemed that it downloaded old versions for warlords and vanilla and would take hours to copy the hundreds of thousands of files around.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Yes, of course, the correct link in our SVN guide (http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825) only downloads BtS version).
Hi, I would like to know what that "urban" or "rural" logistic means. It was added recently and I have no idea what it is. It is on some technologies, but I didnt notice anything different after getting +1 rural logistic or whatever.
Aid system is now much better than before. No more waiting for enemy to go on hills and destroy them with aid of recon units.
Aid system is now much better than before. No more waiting for enemy to go on hills and destroy them with aid of recon units.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
Logistics now replaces the old and simple one-tiered overcrowded promo. Urban/rural logistics +1 means you can have one more unit in a stack inside/outside city before congestion (overcrowding) kicks in. Also, overcrowding is now gradual.
Just out of curiosity, why not release another version? The mods excellent, but this crap of withholding updates is frustrating. Yeah, yeah,, no deadline,,, blah blah, I been checking for like a year and I'm supposed to download a program to play the like the last 4 versions? WTH? I've tried to be patient but any time anyone asks about a possible update without SVN they're treated with a "heh, heh, just get SVN don't rush me bro,,, Heh Heh,,,". Here's a cheat sheet, most people who play mods don't like having to use second party programs. What a waste of a good mod. Maybe when civ 6 comes out you'll have the next version.
Perhaps, (this coming from somebody who has both seen similar complaints before and is not part of the team) their delay can be answered by one of three things:
1: They want to make sure the mod is 100% balanced and tested before they do a full release, and SVN is how the beta-testers are, well, testing.
2: It's easier for them to make minor changes with the SVN instead of fully re-uploading the mod for every tiny adjustment.
3: It's how they want to do it.
Keep in mind they do this for free because they want to and find it enjoyable to make this mod.
And if you don't like it, why the rant? Seriously, just do something else with your time, if it's too precious to spend doing a few short downloads and clicks.
1: I'm pretty sure the prior full releases were tested for balance. 100%? Maybe not but will most likely never be.
2: It's been like a year. Minor changes? Please don't act like people think every time they change a pedia entry they expect another version.
3: Yes it is.
I thought they did it for free, but considering one needs another program to play current versions I can't be sure. I've never seen a mod for ANY game, and I've played a lot of mods (Deus EX, Elder Scrolls, GTA, Civ 2,3,4,,) require you to download a client program to play them. Usually BETA testing is done among the development team and a few chosen ones. When it's done on a perpetual basis over the course of this amount of time, with this many versions? I have to question why. That's the reason for the rant.
Walter Hawkwood
RI Curator
That's because it is still a beta. When we decide to stop working on RI we will release a final version. SVN is intended for beta-testing purposes. There is an installer available for 3.1 - it's not like we don't release at all - but none of our releases thus far except for final Warlords version were intended as "complete". And yes, we release at our own chosen pace.
Also yes, we do it 100% for free. Despite the claim in the first post, not even one payment in beer was received by any team member in all of those years.
And precisely because we do it for free, we get to decide what to do with RI. We release at the pace we choose to, and though I will be the first to admit we intended to release 3.2 much earlier, and are frustrated by the delay ourselves, we still stand by our decision. Feel free to enjoy either 3.1, or download the latest internal build that you download via SVN - we don't tell you how to enjoy our mod, we are very open and don't restrict anyone's access to what we basically consider betas - but SVN version is in no way intended by us to be the main version for normal players. SVN repository is there in the first place for our convenience.
In short, we don't release more often because we don't want to, and we are in no way dependent on our mod's number of downloads to keep going, so while more frequent releases would probably enhance our popularity, we aren't really going after said popularity. Feel free to either use the latest release or SVN builds.
Lt_Cmdr_Data
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2011
- Messages
- 35
Walter, and any other member of RI team, please do contact me for free beer if you are ever in Zagreb, Croatia or in Sofia, Bulgaria (only from 1.10.2013. till 15.2.2014.)
Faithchild
Chieftain
hey!
I updated to newest SVn i mid june 2013. Dont know excact revision nr. Started hotseat multiplayer on second highest difficulty on RI world map. just wanted to mention a few things.
1.Carthage
They are seriously underpowerd! They are basically castrated by the fact that copper is on that island(sardina),which AI newer develop. AND even as player, if i build mine with road, the recource is NOT conected. I am now 700 ad, and north tile of island is stil not under cultural border,if that would have changed it.
Map need reworking, copper needs to be on mainland.
They have VERY low production on first 3-4 cities,which often is the only ones,, need a little push!
2. AI starting locations(where first settler i placed) Very often Ive seend civs been handicapped due to starting 1 tile wrong,making them missing out on sea or strat.resource. Doublechek it ALL civs start on optimal spot.
3. AI city placement. Ai empahsis on coastal city is undervalued. Seen tooo many examples of cities built 1 tile inland, with no logic behind it. ANy way to increas coastal preference?
4.Babylon
IS it intended that they shall build new cities with settlers?? They do and I thought they were not.
5.India
is such an easy civ as human. AS soon as you got 2 cities, and take barb Lahore, your set for life as human player,just a matter of time before you have 20 perfect cities inside mountains, and all recources in the world. Dravidia tried to attack,but newer gets past 3 cities...
6. England AI
They did wait exctremely long to get their 3 city edinbourg, and newer tries on irland. As AI they newer gets out of their cradle...
7. Armenia
Cool civ, but gets very quicly targeted by jews,babylon and persia...Didnt stand a chance as human player, just got attritioned down.
8. Japan, did well as AI, whit much help from openborders from human South china. Newer took northern barb city by lated medival tech,,,
9. Barbarian forts
Splendid Idea against human players, but AI cant handle them,, as the get WAAY to experienced by AI singleunit attacks. Set xp cap,maybee even zero. or have two types, one weaker for close cities,and stronger for strategic reasons.
10 inca
Enormous amount of copper, no iron??? Have 8 cities, and no iron. got no religion there, so max city size is 8-9 with 10% culture... Very hard as human to keep up against other human civs. should have 1-2 more hapiness resources.
hopless starting spot for setler as AI, should be at sea.
11. France
as player,Survive inevitable netherland attack, and take amsterdam, and rule europe forever. AS soon as france gets 4 homeland cities+amsterdam,they rule. pick of weak german/rome/spania, and you newer need to worry again.
Diplomacy bonus gives huge effect. I had 7 civvs wanting to be my vassal at 1 single turn.
AS AI, french always newer makes it, as netherlands bugs the down to much.
12. Rome
as AI, NEVER sent a single unit towards france region, south of alps. not even a scout. anything wrong with ai tracking?. its as the AI think its impassable..
great civ, only strong human french, hindered them in taking europe starting with germany.
13. portugal.
If lisbon started 1 tile down to south/east, then 4 cities on iberia would been built,making it better for spain... Portugal held of spain untill medival...
Hope that this contained something useful, especially about carthage and starting locations.
I updated to newest SVn i mid june 2013. Dont know excact revision nr. Started hotseat multiplayer on second highest difficulty on RI world map. just wanted to mention a few things.
1.Carthage
They are seriously underpowerd! They are basically castrated by the fact that copper is on that island(sardina),which AI newer develop. AND even as player, if i build mine with road, the recource is NOT conected. I am now 700 ad, and north tile of island is stil not under cultural border,if that would have changed it.
Map need reworking, copper needs to be on mainland.
They have VERY low production on first 3-4 cities,which often is the only ones,, need a little push!
2. AI starting locations(where first settler i placed) Very often Ive seend civs been handicapped due to starting 1 tile wrong,making them missing out on sea or strat.resource. Doublechek it ALL civs start on optimal spot.
3. AI city placement. Ai empahsis on coastal city is undervalued. Seen tooo many examples of cities built 1 tile inland, with no logic behind it. ANy way to increas coastal preference?
4.Babylon
IS it intended that they shall build new cities with settlers?? They do and I thought they were not.
5.India
is such an easy civ as human. AS soon as you got 2 cities, and take barb Lahore, your set for life as human player,just a matter of time before you have 20 perfect cities inside mountains, and all recources in the world. Dravidia tried to attack,but newer gets past 3 cities...
6. England AI
They did wait exctremely long to get their 3 city edinbourg, and newer tries on irland. As AI they newer gets out of their cradle...
7. Armenia
Cool civ, but gets very quicly targeted by jews,babylon and persia...Didnt stand a chance as human player, just got attritioned down.
8. Japan, did well as AI, whit much help from openborders from human South china. Newer took northern barb city by lated medival tech,,,
9. Barbarian forts
Splendid Idea against human players, but AI cant handle them,, as the get WAAY to experienced by AI singleunit attacks. Set xp cap,maybee even zero. or have two types, one weaker for close cities,and stronger for strategic reasons.
10 inca
Enormous amount of copper, no iron??? Have 8 cities, and no iron. got no religion there, so max city size is 8-9 with 10% culture... Very hard as human to keep up against other human civs. should have 1-2 more hapiness resources.
hopless starting spot for setler as AI, should be at sea.
11. France
as player,Survive inevitable netherland attack, and take amsterdam, and rule europe forever. AS soon as france gets 4 homeland cities+amsterdam,they rule. pick of weak german/rome/spania, and you newer need to worry again.
Diplomacy bonus gives huge effect. I had 7 civvs wanting to be my vassal at 1 single turn.
AS AI, french always newer makes it, as netherlands bugs the down to much.
12. Rome
as AI, NEVER sent a single unit towards france region, south of alps. not even a scout. anything wrong with ai tracking?. its as the AI think its impassable..
great civ, only strong human french, hindered them in taking europe starting with germany.
13. portugal.
If lisbon started 1 tile down to south/east, then 4 cities on iberia would been built,making it better for spain... Portugal held of spain untill medival...
Hope that this contained something useful, especially about carthage and starting locations.
sjodster
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2010
- Messages
- 96
The AI's starting plot locations were changed extensively with the latest K-Mod merge (committed on September 1st). Karadoc did quite a bit of work in the recent revisions of K-Mod, so it's possible that both of these concerns have already been addressed. More testing is welcome to confirm
-Josh
Darkphoenix
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 208
You can see your current revision by right clicking the realism folder -> SVN -> Show Log. The bolded revision is the current one.
Back in July the url for the repository changed (make sure the next time you update you make sure you have the new one), the current revision as of 9/22/13 9:26 PST (-8 GMT) is r4544. If you are back in the 43XXs, you are probably still on the old url.
EDIT: Just a quick note, it appears that the new Supply Problems 1 promotions mouse hover icon is missing (got a pink square). It looks fine in the Selected Unit details screen and in civlopedia, it just shows up pink when you hover over a stack in a city and you get that list of units + promotions. rev4544 (art folder is 4541, but that is latest revision for art)
Faithchild
Chieftain
my revision nr is 4402.
Good to hear, hope for some comments about my other observations.
love your work!
Darkphoenix
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 208
Well, I'm not one of the developers, just a player, so I'm just barely scratching at the surface of some of the recent massive updates. But I can say that a lot of the things you mentioned are covered under the stated changes of the K-mod, etc. Whether or not they actually are relies on testing.
However, this one caught my eye:
This one might actually have to do with the barb units separating the French, German, and Roman regions. I once got a Worker stuck in a loop because the barbarian forts were invisible in the fog of war, so they'd move to go through them, move next to them, see them, then start to go around, which made them lost in fog of war, and then the AI thinks "hey this other way is much shorter", goes back to the square next to the barb fort, sees it, decides to go around, repeat.
I noticed after like 2 turns, manually told the worker to go around using shift clicks, and then restarted the automation later. I don't have a save of it as far as I know, but I will keep an eye out for this happening again. It mostly fixes itself as soon as the civs spread out, as the cultural borders lift the fog of war, or AI Spain launches the Euroconquista against all Barbarian forts in Europe on it's way to destroying France and Germany...
As to some of your other points:
(Overarching note: Whenever we discuss AI performance with a certain Civ, we first must agree there is randomness in Civ4. Also, a sample size of 10 games in which Civ X was weak is not 100% proof that something is wrong, especially when the player is in the area. We tend to be a lot smarter than them. Also, I have noticed that different civs perform much differently on different difficulty levels. Something to keep in mind if we have significant differences in how a civ performs.)
4. Babylon.
I think that's WAD. It's been awhile since I played in that region, other than sending stacks through conquering anything that wasn't my color, but other non-playable civs are capable of building settlers.
5. India. Hmmm, yes. Kinda. I haven't played since Transoxiana was added though. I just saw AI India get their capital conquered in r4544 by them. Then again, it's hard to really say a civ is too easy for the player, I mean I can conquer all of Europe besides Spain as France before I even discover Iron Working on Emperor level. And by Conquer I mean have a few select cities while everyone else is smoking ruins. Peace is a desert, and all that.
6. Yeah, England has always been... odd. The AI has never been very good at sea based nations (look at poor Austronesia). I'm hoping some of the k-mod stuff will improve this.
7. Armenia
I've usually seen these guys do very well in recent revisions.
8. I can't say much about Japan except to say that I've never seen them conquered by the AI. Again, AI has never been good with naval stuff. I don't consider any games in which I have actually played in Asia to be a good example of their behavior since my human actions are generally much superior to anything the naval AI can do.
9. Barbarian forts
Less cities have these now, they are not in every barb city. Also, I regularly see Spain overrun the noncity ones on their north border with stacks before or around the medieval period. I haven't played long enough to tell if the AI has been improved with k-mod to do less suicidal tactics. Also, I have also massively improved my Civ4 play so I rarely have any local AI opponents by the time I reach Classical... So that means there's also less AIs to get bored with their spare units.
10 inca
I think this is WAD. They didn't do so well in our timeline either...
11. France
First, "Survive the first Netherlands attack"? What are the Netherlands? Do you mean that free city just to to north of Paris guarded by a couple of Warriors? I jest I jest.
France is another one of the civs that looks to be greatly impacted by the difficulty level. I usually see them get overrun by Spain, but I'm not sure if that's France's fault so much as Spain just building doomstacks to get rid of the barb forts and then needing something else to go beat up.
Also, Vassals have recently been reworked, haven't gotten a game to that tech yet since the nerf, but a recent dev post stated they got rid of the happiness bonus from vassals. Or maybe it was in the log of the SVN. Anyways, no more happiness cities with 40+ happiness right after feudalism.
13. portugal.
I think this one is 50/50. Portugal usually gets conquered in the end, but depending on difficulty level and luck, they hold off longer or shorter. I actually wish they were stronger to Spain didn't curbstomp Europe like they do in so many of my games.
However, this one caught my eye:
This one might actually have to do with the barb units separating the French, German, and Roman regions. I once got a Worker stuck in a loop because the barbarian forts were invisible in the fog of war, so they'd move to go through them, move next to them, see them, then start to go around, which made them lost in fog of war, and then the AI thinks "hey this other way is much shorter", goes back to the square next to the barb fort, sees it, decides to go around, repeat.
I noticed after like 2 turns, manually told the worker to go around using shift clicks, and then restarted the automation later. I don't have a save of it as far as I know, but I will keep an eye out for this happening again. It mostly fixes itself as soon as the civs spread out, as the cultural borders lift the fog of war, or AI Spain launches the Euroconquista against all Barbarian forts in Europe on it's way to destroying France and Germany...
As to some of your other points:
(Overarching note: Whenever we discuss AI performance with a certain Civ, we first must agree there is randomness in Civ4. Also, a sample size of 10 games in which Civ X was weak is not 100% proof that something is wrong, especially when the player is in the area. We tend to be a lot smarter than them. Also, I have noticed that different civs perform much differently on different difficulty levels. Something to keep in mind if we have significant differences in how a civ performs.)
4. Babylon.
I think that's WAD. It's been awhile since I played in that region, other than sending stacks through conquering anything that wasn't my color, but other non-playable civs are capable of building settlers.
5. India. Hmmm, yes. Kinda. I haven't played since Transoxiana was added though. I just saw AI India get their capital conquered in r4544 by them. Then again, it's hard to really say a civ is too easy for the player, I mean I can conquer all of Europe besides Spain as France before I even discover Iron Working on Emperor level. And by Conquer I mean have a few select cities while everyone else is smoking ruins. Peace is a desert, and all that.
6. Yeah, England has always been... odd. The AI has never been very good at sea based nations (look at poor Austronesia). I'm hoping some of the k-mod stuff will improve this.
7. Armenia
I've usually seen these guys do very well in recent revisions.
8. I can't say much about Japan except to say that I've never seen them conquered by the AI. Again, AI has never been good with naval stuff. I don't consider any games in which I have actually played in Asia to be a good example of their behavior since my human actions are generally much superior to anything the naval AI can do.
9. Barbarian forts
Less cities have these now, they are not in every barb city. Also, I regularly see Spain overrun the noncity ones on their north border with stacks before or around the medieval period. I haven't played long enough to tell if the AI has been improved with k-mod to do less suicidal tactics. Also, I have also massively improved my Civ4 play so I rarely have any local AI opponents by the time I reach Classical... So that means there's also less AIs to get bored with their spare units.
10 inca
I think this is WAD. They didn't do so well in our timeline either...
11. France
First, "Survive the first Netherlands attack"? What are the Netherlands? Do you mean that free city just to to north of Paris guarded by a couple of Warriors? I jest I jest.
France is another one of the civs that looks to be greatly impacted by the difficulty level. I usually see them get overrun by Spain, but I'm not sure if that's France's fault so much as Spain just building doomstacks to get rid of the barb forts and then needing something else to go beat up.
Also, Vassals have recently been reworked, haven't gotten a game to that tech yet since the nerf, but a recent dev post stated they got rid of the happiness bonus from vassals. Or maybe it was in the log of the SVN. Anyways, no more happiness cities with 40+ happiness right after feudalism.
13. portugal.
I think this one is 50/50. Portugal usually gets conquered in the end, but depending on difficulty level and luck, they hold off longer or shorter. I actually wish they were stronger to Spain didn't curbstomp Europe like they do in so many of my games.
Faithchild
Chieftain
Thanks for input DarkPhoenix!
I guess I have this desire for as many civs as possible, doing as good as possible, at the same time, thus giving the highest degree of challenge.
france... First time you play, you'll excpect everyone to love you, then choose settling and workers over military, and then boom, 5 archers++ hit you from amsterdam..
Same happen in ancient era for many civs, and usually only once or twice. Sout china get suprised by khmer, scandinavia gets a barb stack, inca get an amazon stack, India gets hit by a dravidian stack...
Once you know thats gonna happen, you tend to survive...guess I often overeach for tech and buildings, keeping military on minimum, untill i need lebensraum..
Hoping others give som gameplay input aswell!
LOVE RI!
I guess I have this desire for as many civs as possible, doing as good as possible, at the same time, thus giving the highest degree of challenge.
france... First time you play, you'll excpect everyone to love you, then choose settling and workers over military, and then boom, 5 archers++ hit you from amsterdam..
Same happen in ancient era for many civs, and usually only once or twice. Sout china get suprised by khmer, scandinavia gets a barb stack, inca get an amazon stack, India gets hit by a dravidian stack...
Once you know thats gonna happen, you tend to survive...guess I often overeach for tech and buildings, keeping military on minimum, untill i need lebensraum..
Hoping others give som gameplay input aswell!
LOVE RI!
