Realism Invictus

They're better than not having a food resource on that tile. I don't think all resources should be equally good.
The problem is that not getting pigs is better than getting pigs. I'd build farm/mine/windmill/cottage over pasture anytime.
6. I disagree - I think techs should actually be more expensive for very small empires than they are now, because any one-city civ (in a normal game) can easily outperform medium-to-large civs in tech, and I think they ought to perform about the same (athough I can't remember if that was the actual intention behind the mechanic).
Yeah, that's my point. Small civs are way too effective at science. Therefore large AIs are always behind tech-wise compared to small ones.
I've attached (I hope; it's my first time trying to attach a file here) a version of RI Europe map where I trimmed off about 20% of the map size, which has helped make that map more playable for me with regards to faster turn load times and fewer later game crashes. Give it a try if you want.
I'll give it a try, thanks. I'd gladly cut all the Ural/India stuff for the sake of better stability.
 
Although inflation has been taken out, there is still at least one event that interacts with it, the one where you can choose to pay a lump sum of cash to reduce inflation.
Inflation has not been taken out. It is still there. If you want to see its effect hover over your expenses. The event that interacts with it takes effect the following turn.

Hi, registered specifically to drop some feedback.
I wanted to sit out this discussion but seeing some of the points lead to misconceptions I'll add my opinions.
3. Pasture food resources are terrible! Especially pigs. Pastures scale very badly, and they provide increased epidemics chance, which is far more important than health (I usually don't have any issues with health, but epidemics can be a threat, especially in the middle ages).
I'm not sure what version you're playing so my comment may not apply. I hardly disagree. Until recently I had issues with a pig pasture but since it was buffed I like it too. Yes, pastures scale badly but they are great in the earlygame. And if you increase your difficulty you'll suddenly discover that you need all the :health: you can get your hands on.
6. Tech cost scaling with city count seems too steep. Mostly for the AI. In my Giant Earth game, I've united the entire South America, had 30 cities, and the only one who was constantly ahead of me tech-wise was Indonesia, which had 2 (!) cities, and did nothing other than just sit on their island. Whereas major powers in Old World, which had similar amount of territories, were way behind. Imo it punishes expansion way too much, I'll try reducing it and see how it fares. While player can benefit from expanding later on, it punishes AI too much while rewarding "doing nothing" from it's part.
It's not tech cost scaling. It's the AI making BILLIONS of useless units that cripple its economy. And even if a small civ outperforms a bigger one in technology it can still be overwhelmed by force.
7. Cultures decay way too slowly. I've conquered a barbarian city in Classical era, and in the 1750 it is still 10% Barbarian, resulting in 1 unhappiness. Idk, seems absurd? From my understanding, this is designed for the Revolutions module, but since Revolutions in general don't work that well for Civ, maybe it should be tweaked? I'd tweak that myself, but have no idea where to look.
As aantia pointed out culture does not decay. Just make more of your own culture. I wanted to add that it doesn't feel unrealistic that people can remember their heritage even after a thousand years.
 
Здравствуйте, обновление по моду идут? Или 3.57 является последней? Спасибо за ответ.

3.57 is the latest currently released version. The development still continues, so there will be more releases.

Hmm still crashing even with process lasso thing. Maybe I done it wrong? Is there a step by step guide somewhere?
Otherwise I give up if I can't play past 200-300 turns.

Crashing after 200-300 turns at standard RI speed is definitely not normal, lasso or not. What are your system specs?

- As a suggestion for the new update, could we have variable anarchy ranges for revolutions between civic changes? I was just reminded that this was on a range in Civ 3, and this actually makes more sense both in historical terms and in modelling a sense of strategic risk when changing civics, especially since many of the civic trees model natural progressions which otherwise don't present much of a strategic crossroads in choosing to change, and merely one turn of anarchy (unless playing with the spiritual trait), or more if changing multiple civics at once, guaranteed, feels too concretely prescient to represent the uncertainties entailed in changing the structures of government concomitant with what changing the fabric of government or society would entail in real terms. Possibly this could scale with city maintenance the same way that civic maintenance is calculated? I also don't know how difficult this would be to program, but if it wouldn't require a great effort in programming, I'd suggest something along these lines, if possible.

From my experience, AIs change civics more often than players. As your suggestion amounts to lengthening the anarchy time (as it is currently 1 turn per civic change, one can't really do shorter than that), I fear it will disproportionately disadvantage the AI.

- Very dumb question, sorry... how do I check the current build of the mod? I don't recall updating it, but ever since the toned-down barbarians were mentioned, mine have been a night and day difference in ease. They were initially very difficult, and now are hardly more than a mild nuissance. I liked the former scenario better. If I simply select "raging barbs," will it be equivalent? I might have installed 3.57 but can't find this confirmed anywhere in-game.

Never felt the need to implement, so there is no immediate method to check from within the mod. The easiest is to find the installer you've used.

To answer your question, yes, the difference is "Raging Barbarians" was on by default and now it is not. So yes, it's as easy as turning it back on.

- And a bug report: I can upload the save if necessary, but my monasteries are still showing a 10% science bonus in the city screen even when I am not running their respective religions as a state religion. Furthermore, it doesn't add up to the total shown for research modifiers, so it's only a minor thing, but this looks like an error.

As this doesn't affect actual gameplay and lies within the cursed realm of UI, I will have a look but can't guarantee any results.

This was probably already answered a lot, but I couldn't find anything with a simple search so help me out please: how to unlock non-playable nations and can you actually play with them without crashes?

Answered before me; to elaborate a bit, civs in Derivative_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml are designed to be able to play as normal, and as such enabling them should lead to no errors, though the amount of content for them is much less than for any stock playable civ. Civs in OtherCivs_CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml exist for specific scenario purposes and shouldn't be made playable.

1. Crash issue persists. I am currently using Process Lasso with advanced rule: "Trim Virtual Memory" when working set of memory is >825 MB, with 1 sec duration. But the game still crashes a lot. Huge World Map in the 1775 crashes every 20 turns or so, to the point I've dropped it. Save file is over 5 MB. Europe map in 1750 (3.5 MB save file) crashes occasionally as well, maybe every 50 turns or so. I've noticed that info screen in particular can be very crash-prone.

I've actually been wanting to remove the Huge World Map altogether, but there are always "I love the map and don't care that I won't be able to reach industrial era" people around to dissuade me. I should simply add a disclaimer at its start to warn players they likely won't be able to complete a full game on it.

2. Inquisition diplomacy penalties are way too severe. It's the 18th century and many empires still have the -15 relationship modifier for removing their religions, which I did in the early middle ages. I've decided to increase the memory decay rate 5 times. Will see if this gets better.

Pardon my nosiness, but what exactly was the purpose of going around and removing other peoples' religions? What did you want to achieve?

3. Pasture food resources are terrible! Especially pigs. Pastures scale very badly, and they provide increased epidemics chance, which is far more important than health (I usually don't have any issues with health, but epidemics can be a threat, especially in the middle ages).

I feel you're far too focused on the late game. Resources aren't meant to be equally valuable all throughout the game, and animals are designed to be more valuable early on. TBH, there are definitely some legit situations where one could prefer to farm over pigs in the late game, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

4. Doom stacks are still strong. I've got zerged by a country which just made 40 irregulars, and thrown them onto my 20-man protected city. Meh, feels kinda cheap. 35% power reduction is still not enough imo. But I guess increasing this value will cripple AI a bit too much?

I generally don't like the "git gud" type post, but from what you've described I got a feeling that if what you're saying was true, the defensive stack was really suboptimal. To confirm my feeling, I did an experiment: https://imgur.com/a/2RG6cOf. 20 units contemporary to Irregulars (mid-Renaissance) representing roughly the composition I'd use to defend a city, attacked by 40 irregulars. Everything else assumed to be the worst-case scenario for the defender - flatland city with no defenses, a leader with a trait negatively impacting military units (note that the negative trait on the attacker side doesn't matter as it subtracts first strike chances, which Irregulars wouldn't get anyway), and no pre-bombardment of the attacking stack by the cannons (which one would normally be able to do since a stack of irregular would normally take at least one turn to get into position for attacking a city). While they did take some losses, the defenders held convincingly. I actually replicated that several times and none of the cases resulted in the city being taken.

5. Shwedagon Paya is kinda useless. I've tried to do a very early Cult of Personality, and it was... okay I guess? Speaking of Cult of Personality, it kinda needs some propaganda units that remove religions. Running Free Religion very early is pointless since you can't build religious communities - maybe those should be tied only to civic, not tech?

Yeah, it's kinda situational. Though locking into Cult of Personality early on, especially with a Charismatic leader, is a niche but legit strategy.

6. Tech cost scaling with city count seems too steep. Mostly for the AI. In my Giant Earth game, I've united the entire South America, had 30 cities, and the only one who was constantly ahead of me tech-wise was Indonesia, which had 2 (!) cities, and did nothing other than just sit on their island. Whereas major powers in Old World, which had similar amount of territories, were way behind. Imo it punishes expansion way too much, I'll try reducing it and see how it fares. While player can benefit from expanding later on, it punishes AI too much while rewarding "doing nothing" from it's part.

I feel the precise balance here is a matter of personal taste, but generally speaking, I have no problem with smaller AIs being more advanced than larger ones. Also from what you wrote, it might be an Earth map-specific issue, as the general the density of cities there is usually much higher than in a comparable random map. Admittedly I don't care for the scenario balance as much as I do for random maps, but I'll see if I should tone it down in that specific case. I wouldn't know as I didn't launch the world map scenarios in quite a while.

7. Cultures decay way too slowly. I've conquered a barbarian city in Classical era, and in the 1750 it is still 10% Barbarian, resulting in 1 unhappiness. Idk, seems absurd? From my understanding, this is designed for the Revolutions module, but since Revolutions in general don't work that well for Civ, maybe it should be tweaked? I'd tweak that myself, but have no idea where to look.

Culture doesn't decay. Why exactly does having a persistent disgruntled national minority seem absurd?

1: I had an event that gave a buff to my Autobahns, something about having great engineers. Unfortunately it fired when I was playing Korea, in the early Industrial Era, so it wasn't appropriate at all.

I'll check.

2: Although inflation has been taken out, there is still at least one event that interacts with it, the one where you can choose to pay a lump sum of cash to reduce inflation.

Why does everyone think the inflation has been taken out? It's another one of those persistent beliefs that I don't feel are founded in anything in the actual RI.
 
I've actually been wanting to remove the Huge World Map altogether, but there are always "I love the map and don't care that I won't be able to reach industrial era" people around to dissuade me. I should simply add a disclaimer at its start to warn players they likely won't be able to complete a full game on it.
This is a shame as it is a very well designed map, I usually don't like Earth maps for Civ, but this one is great.
Pardon my nosiness, but what exactly was the purpose of going around and removing other peoples' religions? What did you want to achieve?
I meant removing religions from the cities I've conquered. This hugely pisses off everyone following that religion simply because there is a lot of cities, which would make sense if it didn't persist for so long and wasn't so drastic. As it is right now, imo it's not worth it at all, it ruins relationships for the rest of the game, more than anything else you could do.

No one hates me for declaring wars, but some distant followers of Taoism absolutely hate me (-15 modifier) because I've been removing Taoism in the cities I've conquered. Even if they aren't even religious anymore and switched to free religion hundreds of years ago. And thousand years have passed. Idk, it's almost like hating medieval Italian states for persecution of Christians during Roman times.

Ideally, I think there should be something like a cap for negative mood (like -6 max or something, maybe dependant on leader, so religious ones would actually really hate you, while anti-clerical wouldn't care much). Another thing I could think of is having the modifier mostly disappear when they switch to no state religion. But as a quick fix, I've tried make them to forget this faster by changing their diplo values.
I generally don't like the "git gud" type post, but from what you've described I got a feeling that if what you're saying was true, the defensive stack was really suboptimal.
Ehh, maybe, I don't really remember what my stack was. I forgot that other than 40 irregulars, my opponent also had some support units like trebuchets, so those could've contributed as well.
Why exactly does having a persistent disgruntled national minority seem absurd?
It'd make sense if it was some sort of advanced civilization that got conquered, but if it is barbarians or some primitive tribe, realistically, I think they should get assimilated quickly. Or at the very least we could pretend that they got integrated into the culture and accepted the 'civilized' way of living. But it seems there's no easy way around it.
Again, I am talking about an issue I've encountered on pre-made maps, where there's a lot of pre-placed barbarians.
 
[...]
I meant removing religions from the cities I've conquered. This hugely pisses off everyone following that religion simply because there is a lot of cities, which would make sense if it didn't persist for so long and wasn't so drastic. As it is right now, imo it's not worth it at all, it ruins relationships for the rest of the game, more than anything else you could do.

No one hates me for declaring wars, but some distant followers of Taoism absolutely hate me (-15 modifier) because I've been removing Taoism in the cities I've conquered. Even if they aren't even religious anymore and switched to free religion hundreds of years ago. And thousand years have passed. Idk, it's almost like hating medieval Italian states for persecution of Christians during Roman times. [...]

Looks like the Taoists have declared you to be the Great Satan - never encountered this myself, never played with inquisitors much,

great story :thumbsup:
 
Crashing after 200-300 turns at standard RI speed is definitely not normal, lasso or not. What are your system specs?

i5-10600K
32gb ram
amd radeon rx 6700 xt
nvme ssd
and windows 10

I have been only playing on the europe custom scenario. As England and Poland. With both it started at around 200-300 turns in which I had to reload game and then it would crash every 50 or so turns.
 
Remember the size of the savegame file is "Alpha and Omega", and the number of cities is the most important factor here. Secondary is the number of active civs.

The biggest map I have been able to finish with the default value of 2 tiles between the cities is 160*100 where... I'm not sure, but I think I remember.... about 5500 tiles were land. That gave space for 'round 220-250 cities.


Right now I'm trying with a bigger map 200*160 tiles with 8600 tiles of land. I'm using 6 tiles between cities here to avoid too many cities.

My first try on this size was with "only" 4 tiles between the cities but the size of the savegame file grow big much too fast and the game crashed and crashed again. I'm not sure how many cities there were on that map, but I could see "many" already in the late medieval era. I always have map-exchanges turned off, and therefore there always will be many big black land-areas, I do not know much about. I just expect there were at least the same number - maybe twiice the number - of cities under the black cover as I could see.... so at least 250-300 in total....
 
To answer your question, yes, the difference is "Raging Barbarians" was on by default and now it is not. So yes, it's as easy as turning it back on.
Not sure if that's it, but I've noticed previously that before a barb civ settles, barbs seem to stop appearing for quite a while and then reappear once the new civ is settled (if there are still viable spots). Think you changed something about that already?

As this doesn't affect actual gameplay and lies within the cursed realm of UI, I will have a look but can't guarantee any results.
I know I questioned this at some point or another. If somebody makes a strategic decision based on that info, can it really be said not to affect gameplay?

I feel you're far too focused on the late game. Resources aren't meant to be equally valuable all throughout the game, and animals are designed to be more valuable early on. TBH, there are definitely some legit situations where one could prefer to farm over pigs in the late game, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
My beef with this is that it's not obvious that not connecting/having a resource becomes the better play over the course of the game. Sure, in the ancient and classical having the extra food is worth it. In the middle ages, maybe, but those extra 3 or 4 food now cost you 0.5% or 1% epidemics chance in all cities. Once you approach the stage where city growth is limited by your national epidemics reduction wonders in the renaissance, these resources become a hindrance.
In a bit of an evil turn to play around this, I'm gifting animals to my opponents. The AI doesn't seem to take epidemics into account.

Why does everyone think the inflation has been taken out? It's another one of those persistent beliefs that I don't feel are founded in anything in the actual RI.
Did that once. It's because you relegated the inflation display to a tooltip and it's not a seperate entry like in vanilla.
 
s
path to Civ4/BeyondtheSword/Mods/Realism/Assets/XML/Civilizations
Open the CIV4CivilizationsInfos.xml file with notepad or whatever word processing program
Find the civ you want to make playable, find the line under that civ's section that reads <bPlayable>0</bPlayable> and change the 0 to a 1.

I've never crashed from this.

Thank you! Although I couldn't find any non-playable civs in this doc, only as a reference to the formable states (used the search function and only got the lines to <DerivativeCiv>
Am I missing something?:confused:
 
Those nations such as Austria, Brazil, Finland and more are all placed in this file: .....XML\Civilizations\Derivative_CIV4CivilizationsInfos.xml.
 
Wow, after a few tries I must admit that the AI plays to win in RI...
No matter the start or the civ I always get attacked about the time of building the second city, sometimes earlier.

You literally can not go peaceful option until you destroy your neighbor(Monarch diff). I thought that it might be due to a balance of power, but even 1:0 ratio is not making you safer.

Another point I stumbled upon: no open border.png
Same religion, peace, we're not even neighbors(different islands) and he STILL wouldn't even trade with me. Is this AI straight up gonna hate me the entire game until I destroy him?

Must admit I don't remember such warmongering in previous versions I have played.
And I can't score a single Open border with anyone yet. What's the prerequisite to getting it? Do I need to sacrifice virgins to satisfy the AI?

Is there something I'm missing here? (no changes to game settings at all)
 
UPD: Germans proposed to me the Open borders within a few turns. Literally nothing changed(except their mind I guess)

but now I have a better contender. +7 Relations, no Open borders for you sir! +7.png
I am not sure the relations modifier affects anything? feels like there are some hidden background mechanics that affect AI decision-making. Can I read anywhere about those?
 
Seems like even having +10 of relations does nothing to your ability to conduct diplomacy with a nation. Mutually beneficial trade is not considered as such by the AI. Seems like it views it as a dangerous tool for the player to have an edge in trade and tech, and an AI would rather not....

+10.png
 
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No matter the start or the civ I always get attacked about the time of building the second city, sometimes earlier.
This may seem counterintuitive but if you want safer starts turn on barbarians (or even raging barbs if you like spicy). They keep AI so busy that the number of such attacks will plummet.
I thought that it might be due to a balance of power, but even 1:0 ratio is not making you safer.
But when AI decided to attack you might have had lower power.
feels like there are some hidden background mechanics that affect AI decision-making.
As far as I understand there are two factors that determine this: power and score. You have to be stronger and bigger than AI to sign open borders even if it likes you.
 
There is also a +/- 1 modifier for most leaders for character traits like 'revolutionary' - perhaps in the early game they can tip the balance at higher levels ?

A small gift when meeting them often helps to get open borders, that's common in all Civ4 games I think.

Something was tweaked in the recent updates to make Ais more likely to cancel open border agreements iirc. they now regard them as more valuable.
 
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Where are the bug options ini's located because when I load the game I get 6 messages saying the bug ini required to play haven't been read . Also I can't find them when searching my civ 4 bts file on steam
 
my game throw me to the desktop, no idea why. anyone can help?
reading saves before nothing change, game crash always in this turn

https://www.sendspace.com/file/t5y7b8

edit: austria civ make game crash, i remove it using worldbuilder and all works fine, problem solved
 
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Gotta say, I really love the new UI of the Greeks and the decision to buff the watermill for everybody. UI of the Greeks is pretty powerful as you can make any hill city into a commerce hub, with no need for a flat city for farms, cottages which need to grow and waiting for the city to build all its infrastructure at a snails pace. Plop it down, build the supporting buildings and already your city will pay for its maintanence. New watermill is awsome, as its now a real choice to get some hammers for flat cottage cities with 1-2 hills. I mean they outperform non-slavery mines making rivers more valuable for anything as they should be.

Some thoughts while playing the Europe map as Berbers (seriously guys, play the Europe scenario, the terrain is so much better than random maps and even Totestra and the civs with their historical units, buffs and improvements are the cherry on top):
  • Some civs really like their cav, the Romans had like 20 9:strength: Cav-units stationed in one city, but I couldn't really find some kind of infantry stack for taking cities. And they kept producing cav. When invading France I killed about 60 9:strength: French knights, 40 of their unique paladins and 50 of their 5:strength: horseman, but only about each 20 of their archers/crossbowman, swordsman and man-at-arms.:crazyeye:
  • Religions make for very interesting diplomacy, that game the Dutch founded Taoism and pretty much all of Europe (except the British of course :mischief:) adopted it, the Irish got it the Apo. Palace and it pretty much became the Catholic Church of this game :lol:
  • Europe is border gore, Europe with Religions even more. It seemed to cause problems for the decisionmaking of the AI, with a heathen Greece living way too long despite being pretty much surrounded by the Romans, warred by 4 civs and defending only with sharp sticks and bows.
  • Russian terrain to expand seems pretty op, considering it's vast pristine grassland with forests and some rivers. Now one can understand how the Soviet Union could muster such manpower in the WWII
  • Egypt always steamrolls the early game until they don't and slow down after getting Persia and "die" to research costs.
  • New World is a bit meh, especially as Europe is usually full of luxuries and ressources. The southern most New World bit with Potatoes, Gold and Silver is not too impressive considering how much gold there is, the middle one with sugar and corn is okay and the top one also not too important considering the abundance of fur (though tobacco is nice for trading post bonus). Getting +1 :health: and :) for "establishing colonies" and transatlantic action is not very worth it. I understand the difficulty to implement America in the scenario (or even intention to not implement it). Still, how about trying to put America to where the Sahara is now? Make a Ocean path by demolishing a bit of Marokko? Or make they Island a bit bigger with more ressources so you can sell some Sugar, Potatoes or Corn atleast.
  • Ships are too slow in the scenario. I understand the water tiles in Civ 4 random maps to be compressed, as to not waste space for a real life Pacific or counterpart thereof. But in the scenario this is mostly not the case, but still ships have their 3-4 movement points. But with pretty much any kind of paved street, land units move as fast or way faster than the ships. So you would let them march the entire way from Spain to Denmark and would be faster than taking the sea route :confused: Cav units can blitz through Europe while ships take a long ass time to go anywhere outside the ancient era (which also really hampers the AI, who like to naval invade someone/barbs across the map and then go back) May I suggest an inherent +1 :move: for all ships in the Europe Scenario? (Is this even feasible?)
  • Civil Service still needs a buff in the time it is unlocked :( If not reliant on Happiness or Health one would probably always choose Plutocracy over it. The 10% Building-Hammers are really pricy for medium upkeep and no happines or health. I still think a +worker speed is a good idea, as it fits the theme of civil service (aka canal building in China), doesnt overpower it in the later game (who cares about worker speed after medieval?) and is often needed, as you have potentially slavery making your workers veery slow and the classical era unlocks many improvements at once (esp. plantations and irrigation chains). Alternatively maybe a slight GPP buff representing merit based offices? That would enable some new strategies, allowing going for GP more when pacifism is out of the question and repulic just too expensive.
 
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