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Realism Invictus

Hi I finished a multiplayer game with one other player and had a good time and want advice about what settings to use for another playthrough. Mostly I'm interested in
- good map generator script and settings?
I'd generally recommend all the ones that have "RI" in front of the names, as those were specifically tailored for playing RI. Most of them are highly configurable as well, so if you want fewer and bigger continents for instance, this can easily be arranged.
- tweaks for separatism so it doesn't break the AI? (or generally having longer games)
If there were any that really worked, it would be on by default.
- is teaming with your friend a fine thing to do? It seems fairly balanced? Like research is split and espionage is shared?
Should be. This is purely vanilla, though; nothing was specifically done in RI to balance or alter this anyhow.
Assuming a normal amount of production for a city at that point in the game is about 80, the immediate bonus constitutes hardly more than the equivalent of a single craftsman. Honestly, it just seems fairly underwhelming for what it is supposed to represent, and how expensive it actually is in the game. Having an ironworks in a city doesn't make it "feel" like it is an industrialized hub of production to me, merely slightly better; but coupled with the liabilities and the opportunity cost, it tends to feel like a reluctant choice to me (with the overall industrial building cost nerf a couple of revisions ago, especially so). I would even go so far as to suggest increasing the additional bonus over the blast furnace to 20%.

On another note, were they even prevalent enough at the time of their introduction to be "buildings" in Civ 4 terms? They were national wonders in the base game. It seems like that is actually more appropriate. Was your reason for changing this merely to complete the metallurgy production modifier line for gameplay reasons, or was it on a historical basis? Off the top of my head, while there might have been more than literally just one, it seems that these facilities would still be quite rare, even for great industrial powers. I might have that wrong, however.
I guess you're right, the name "Ironworks" is usually reserved for bigger operations. I'll rename the building to "Foundry".
The revolutions of 1848 were however one that I thought of, and probably still a good one, though that is a once-off occurrence. Other major European uprisings of that time are probably much better represented by separatism, as they all had much more to do with nationalism than anything else.
Not really, no. The 1848 ones were driven more by bourgeoisie / middle classes and were more grounded in demands for political representation, to my understanding.
Do you think anything relatively simple could be done to make anarchy a little more of a con on its own? Switching civics feels "free" as it is.
You're underestimating how much of a con it already is. A full turn of production and research wasted is a rather serious opportunity cost.
EDIT: Speaking of that, a thought just occurred to me: I don't know if this is something you even like theoretically, but one game concept that tends to come up from time to time in discussion here is alcohol. I like how distilled spirits were added to the game as a manufacturable alcohol resource, but its single bonus of happiness doesn't seem quite in line with its actual role in history. Since alcoholism was and still is widespread to the point of being a longstanding public health issue, what about increasing its happiness bonus to +2, and then also increasing unhealthiness by +1, additionally?
AI absolutely loathes resources with drawbacks. Used to be almost exactly this way; AI ended up not producing or trading any.
So why then do power plants provide power on their own as it is? It seems more sensible that either the substation should be a prerequisite for any powerplant, or that it should be scrapped with each powerplant providing its bonus, individually. Otherwise, you are left with a building which models something that already functionally exists in that city.
It cannot be integrated into power plants as there are ways to provide power to cities without a power plant in them, and that would be a huge nerf for those. As for making it a prerequisite for power plants - this can probably be done, but I see no meaningful gameplay impact it would have compared to how it is right now.
But there is still something that bothers me. Not that the electric railroad has been taken out - I didn't use them much anyway. It's more something with the graphic of the paved roads. They road-design sometime looks too "modern" for me, considering this kind of roads comes into the game already in the classical era.
They are modelled on the Roman roads, and that is how Romans really used to build them. It is specifically mentioned in many sources that, even where local roads existed before (in Gaul, for instance) that would usually follow terrain features, Romans would instead build theirs straight from A to B. Also, from more pragmatic perspective, I only have two layouts to work with, and I'd rather have them use the second one for better visual distinction.
So I've played around with that save some more and I realize it almost always crashes when a menu tries to open, particularly the diplomacy menu. It'll also seize up sometimes when you check advisor panels, or when I've triggered a wonder/religion founding movie. Pretty odd that's where the engine is running into trouble now.
That's likely when the game tries to load/unload stuff in bulk from memory.
I noticed that ai doesn't choose the option to reduce rebellion: the player has the choice to bribe rebel leaders, reduce production , give autonomy for 30 turns and I haven't noticed ai doing the same thing
Interesting observation, thanks. I'll look into this - if true, fixing this alone might ensure much better AI separatism handling.
yeah, this is most annyoying
our nation is top1 in ranking and our leader declare war? lets 3/4 of our cities turn undo barbarian rule, why not.
And this, kids, is why we have lots of non-playable civs despite people constantly asking to make them playable. :)
I am in the process of trying to turn Austria into a full civ. Does anyone know how to add unique improvements? I've managed to find the improvement folder with unique improvements but I can only assign them a binary value and cannot seem to find where you can assign them to a specific Civ. Thanks.
Unique improvements per se don't exist from the game perspective. You need to create a unique worker and assign it (and only it) the ability to build the improvement in question. The binary value is mostly for showing it as unique in pedia.
Recently I'm editing the world map. I changed one coast plot near Cape Town(South Africa) into ocean one to make it impossible circumnavigate the world before using caravel. But I find that the ocean plot access to the land looks really unnatural and fuzzy. Is it possible to do someting to make the ocean plot looks clearer and nicer?
Not really, no. This is simply something the terrain engine isn't designed to do.
There seems to be no voice acting for the agricultural machinery tech (unless something went wrong on my side or I somehow missed it).
Thanks for pointing out! Turns out we forgot to record a voice quote for this one :hammer2:

Fortunately, there was an unused but fitting voiced vanilla quote that can be used instead.
What about making great people capturable instead of them disbanding on encounter? This has real world precedent (think "captured Nazi scientist" in the aftermath of WW2), especially in the late game now that nuclear expertise requires a great scientist or engineer, and the incentive to hold onto them for later use is greater, for golden ages or otherwise. It seems that if someone was known to be a great person, the enemy would want to capture them and make them work for the new civ, not just kill them on the spot (Pythagoras at the siege of Syracuse comes to mind as an exception, however). Would add a little spice to warfare in general, too, since this could become a deliberate strategic factor in conquest.
They are already capturable when settled in a city. I think that's quite enough to represent that.
With the strategic bomber, I was unable to bomb enemy improvements, which should be something they can do since the base game.
Couldn't reproduce - was able to bomb improvements in a quick test.
My domestic advisor seems unable to display triple-digit numbers. This becomes particularly clunky from renaissance onwards, when many cities yield output at this threshold in several categories. The actual "screen" itself with the info is compressed in a smaller window in the top left, rather than logically filling the entire available space. Unsure if this is how it is for others or if there is a problem on my end.
Domestic advisor is fully customizable in-game, including column width.
In my most recent game, I had the "passenger airliner crashes" event every few turns for almost the entire industrial era. (I've got the save if you need it.)
Nothing RI-specific was done to modify any event frequencies.
The ICBM description in pedia has a hyperlink which says "can NUKE enemy lands" but clicking on this doesn't bring you to another page. While an experienced player obviously knows how that works, it would be cool if there was a page in "Game Concepts" detailing exactly what it entails, damage thresholds, etc., Otherwise, removing the hyperlink might be something you want to do as it is just visual clutter otherwise.
I'll see what I can do about this.
How about making the biological warfare missile cause an instant epidemic on impact (or at least a chance of one)? I think I might have mentioned this one before, but it seems to make sense both in gameplay and real world terms within the purview of the existing mechanics as they are.
OK, firstly, when creating a bioweapon, an epidemic is the last thing you want. Most of the attempts historically specifically tried to create something that would only work on the people immediately affected and would have very little transmission afterwards. Secondly, thanks for drawing my attention to this one - I think I'll simply get rid of this not-very-realistic unit. I already have a replacement class in mind.
This is purely aesthetic, but all longbowmen have a conspicuously thick, chord-like bowstring which other ranged units do not seem to have. It doesn't particularly bother me, but I know that you like things to look better when possible, so just bringing it up in case it was something you'd not thought about in a while.
Not much I can do with that one that doesn't involve lots of effort on my side individually tweaking the dozen or so model varieties flavour longbowmen use. I'll try improving the texture a bit though, that should look better.
How about adding a very high maintenance cost to nuclear weapons? Maintaining a warhead missile and silo at instant readiness is very expensive in real life, and nukes are extremely powerful in this mod, so what about something like +5 gold per nuke, to make stockpiling them prohibitively expensive? I don't know if this will have a meaningful gameplay effect, however. Each nuke contributes massively to a civ's power score, so their current ability to be useful deterrents is something to consider in this regard.
Maybe. TBH I'm not sure if it's more expensive than, say, an armoured division or an aircraft carrier.
For several turns, I was unable to select any units in a city which had a garrisoned fort two tiles to its south. (Save included which I can post if this isn't already something known about.)
I'll need a save for that one. I likely know the issue and will be able to fix it, but I need to look at the actual unit causing it.
For some reason, I had the option to nuke my own cities and lands (but, ironically, not those of non-belligerents). You'd only do this by mistake if playing seriously, so I'm not sure if it's worth doing anything about this or not, but thought I'd mention it just in case it's undesirable and/or easily fixed. Perhaps this is actually intentionally enabled so that a player has the option of nuking an invading army at the expense of ruining their own land?
Never did anything to that, purely vanilla. Logically, you shouldn't be able to nuke non-belligerents without declaring war, while being able to nuke your own territory is consistent with being able to pillage your own territory.
Pedia description for Kulothunga Chola is very brief. Is there more meaningful historical information available for this figure? I actually like reading the backgrounds of leaders, units, buildings, etc., when I play.
Expanded his description.
In my current game, the ancestor shrine in my capital is outputting a raw 4 culture, while it is only supposed to be 2, as it is in the other cities which have it.
Vanilla behaviour. Buildings double their cultural output every 1000 years, which is likely the case in your game.
The spy unit model as South China is invisible to the player and in the pedia window.
Thanks, fixed.
The hyperlink for the courthouse says "Can turn 1 citizen into spy" but clicking this takes you to the page for the unit, not the specialist.
That's generally the issue with same-named stuff. Part of the reason why every flavour unit has a unique name. This one can probably be fixed by renaming the specialist.
The work boat in the ancient era shows a pulley reel mechanism on the stern, which realistically shouldn't exist until much later, AFAIK. Unsure if there are any feasible models for this, but mentioning in case you would prefer to use a more ancient looking watercraft until, say, mechanics (which would warrant the artwork as it currently is).
Well, this is probably the earliest mechanism ever created, along with the wheel. Since the ancient era includes the bronze age, it is actually quite technologically appropriate, as pulleys are definitely documented in bronze-age Egypt and Mesopotamia and were likely used even before that.
Is it possible to merge a newer version of the BUG mod which details when civs are plotting war, and the reasons for "we have enough on our hands"? I'm thinking probably not, since everything is already so tethered to the existing UI, that attempting this might uproot a lot of previous fixes, but if it's something that can be done, it would make following AI behavior a lot less arbitrary.
No. No, no, no. The mere idea of that makes my skin crawl.
Suggestion: The build option for the Armenian cavalry NU gets disabled when mounted knights are available to be constructed in a city. I'd like to be able to continue building the NUs (7:strength:) alongside my knights, as they have useful traits. Currently I can build them in cities where I specifically don't build a Stable so knights don't become available there, but that is a bit of an awkward workaround.
Well, they were kinda supposed to be obsolete by that time, but since knights aren't always buildable, I can see how this causes an issue. I will think of something.
 
The city is the northernmost of mine in the middle continent. It is two tiles to the north of the fort with the superheavy tank stationed in it, if you would like to use the military advisor to identify it. Forgot to take note of its name before closing, but the SVN takes a long time to load.​
Also, I realized that I meant Archimedes, not Pythagoras, with the siege of Syracuse.​
If the AI is extremely averse to resources with drawbacks, does it not care about the positive epidemic chance from livestock, then?​
EDIT: I updated the SVN to 5360, and I see that alliances are still enabled by Administration, as per my previous edit. I don't see this in the sourceforge notes, so I'm assuming it's leftover from my previous edit, but just checking that that's actually the case.​
I like the woodcut art, by the way!​
 

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From which version settled great people are captured from? I have 3.55 and I dont see it working.

Also - what is the difference bettwen those:
<iDefense>0</iDefense>
<iObsoleteSafeDefense>0</iObsoleteSafeDefense>
 
Is it possible to add a line of code that would make captured slaves be used to construct buildings faster?
AI just stack them and they problay cost 1 :gold: per turn so AI economy is weakened
slaves.jpg
 
Is it possible to add a line of code that would make captured slaves be used to construct buildings faster?
AI just stack them and they problay cost 1 :gold: per turn so AI economy is weakened
To me it looks like the problem is that the AI isn't constructing any buildings, so there's nothing for the slaves to rush. I think that the rational thing to do under this circumstance is to have the slaves construct improvements instead.
 
Is it possible to add a line of code that would make captured slaves be used to construct buildings faster?
AI just stack them and they problay cost 1 :gold: per turn so AI economy is weakened
Lines from 28612 in \Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Realism Invictus\Assets\XML\Units\CIV4UnitInfos.xml
<iWorkRate>60</iWorkRate> - improvements higher value faster doing
<iBaseDiscover>0</iBaseDiscover>
<iDiscoverMultiplier>0</iDiscoverMultiplier>
<iBaseHurry>70</iBaseHurry> -- building higher value more hammers doing
 
Success - I lost a ship......

Civ4ScreenShot0053.JPG


The reason I wanted to try this was because someone - I can't remember who - a while ago asked about this. He remembered that in an earlier version of Civ, you could lose a ship if it sailed out on deep water.....

I changed the Bermuda Triangle Event, so now there is a risk for loosing a ship at sea - no matter if it is near a coast or on the open sea.


Now I only have to change the text to something suitable for the event and make a semilar event for the airplanes.



Edit: And I do know, this is not how it was - at least I do not think it was.............

As far as I remember (I'm certainly not sure - it's so long time ago since I have played any of those old civ-games) you aslo got a warning if you wanted to send your galleys/triremes out on deeper water. And the risk for loosing your ships was rather.high. That, this event can't do/replace.



Edit-edit:

And my personal "challenge" to make Mother Nature much more hostile continues.

I guess you can call that below a disaster, besides the buildings 2 pop were killed in the tsunami.

Civ4ScreenShot0056.JPG



Hmmmm. I wonder what would happend in case I made a version of the tsunami kill 4 pop - and it hit a city with 4.............
 
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The reason I wanted to try this was because someone - I can't remember who - a while ago asked about this. He remembered that in an earlier version of Civ, you could lose a ship if it sailed out on deep water.....

Someone else may have mentioned it as well, but that was me. I like that change! What factors did you input and is it entirely random? I think that that shouldn't be applicable to galleons onward, but for carracks/caravels certainly. In Civ 1 you could even sail into the ocean with galleys with a high risk of them just sinking, but I don't think it's a good idea to make that viable. Also, instead of them "getting lost" in the event, how about just detailing that it sank, which is probably more likely anyway?

I decided to scrap my world map game and update the SVN (the changes looked cool and the turn resolution on the world map is just plain too long for me to enjoy) and made it to mid-industrial so far in a winnable position. Here's some more feedback, if it's desired:

Spoiler :

- First of all, the alliances still seem to be working correctly. My friendly neighbor accepted my alliance request, and then our mutual enemies triangularly allied in a separate network (of approximately equal power), which did declare war on us. Beyond that, there does seem to be a little more peace than there probably should be (though it's possible that the AI is simply focusing on industrializing as per the current phase of the game, as that is a costly and time-consuming process), but there have been DoWs and AI shifted its own alliances also, not just remaining with the same allies indefinitely. I did pull the trigger to start a massive world war which is currently ongoing. It's likely that I'm going to get invaded by the other continent, so I'll provide feedback on the Gatling gun as well, which I've built several of.

- Unlike with swamps, you can simply settle over a jungle tile to remove it without the requisite technology needed to clear it normally. Is this intended or desired for gameplay purposes? It can make a difference in the early game being able to settle on top of gems to get the resource for precious early happiness without having to wait all the way until water pump (and the rather long period of time it would take to chop the jungle and then improve the tile). Conceptually, the settlers are effectively "clearing jungle" in order to lay down the city, so we have to imagine that they have some ability to do this not otherwise available to workers, which is a stretch.

- I decided to try a game without raging barbs, so this time I left that option off. This was my impression before, and it hasn't changed: they really are way too easy under the normal setting. Could we get something in between normal and raging intensity by default? Walter has said that barbarians are supposed to be a threat, not a mere nuisance. While raging is so intense that it effectively forbids openers that aren't first and foremost defense-minded (to the tune that it's often better not even to invest in a worker and to simply work unimproved land instead because anything you can't garrison will just get pillaged) and that's probably too much, they feel both underwhelming and unthreatening by default. Maybe one or two barbarians walked into my empire the whole game in spite of my being right next to a huge dark and scary forest, when they would have eaten my lunch for sure under ranging. It just feels like the "sweet spot" is somewhere in between raging and normal. I'm curious what other players' impression is with this, but in lieu of any changes to this I'll just continue with raging, as that's more fun even if it goes too far with it.

- Something seems wrong with the design idea for the forge. While the free craftsman is a nice boon, the 5% production multiplier for copper effectively rounds down to nothing in the early game, and by the time that your cities are churning enough hammers for this to register, it will have been replaced by the blast furnace anyway. I like the concept of "having a strategic metal gives you a production bonus with this building" but the way that the math is computed means that this doesn't work as intended. Is it possible to make it round up, so that you're at least getting one additional hammer? That seems balanced and sensible for the classical era.

- I'm sure everyone's already aware of this, but unit cost scaling for upgrades does not occur within the same turn, so I often just save up a huge amount of money and upgrade all of them simultaneously without suffering from increased costs, provided it's all on the same turn. This is a gamey workaround of the intended role of that mechanic in the first place, so just checking if that's working as intended.

- Likewise, while I could not directly lead Helepolis of the Great Bombard with a GG, I found out that I could simply stack one regular unit with the siege weapon and have the general lead that unit, then dump the stack XP on the wonder unit, indirectly making it extremely powerful. This actually worked quite well, and I took several cities with an out-of-the-gate combat 3-4, multiple city-raider unit which consistently had 99.99% odds against fortified and full-strength city defenders. I'm not really sure if there's a way to forbid this directly, but I didn't think it was intended, or you would simply be able to lead the great siege weapons with generals directly and in the first place.

- As America, my slaves were unable to build my ranches, only the pasture. I can't remember whether or not this is by design though. Reporting in case it's a bug.

- It's my general experience that the classical era tends to be a bit too short. Usually, unless I intentionally delay it by deliberately going back and researching every classical tech I don't already have, I find that I'm teching into the medieval era in the late BCs or very early ADs, which just doesn't feel quite right. For gameplay reasons I don't want to be researching against the ahead of time cost penalty, but it breaks immersion a little bit to be expecting the medieval era in the 1st century just about every game. The classical era is quite important in the game, finally getting your cities established and the barbarian threat eclipsing at the exact moment that other civs are now proper threats, with lots of different directional options opening up for you as the player; it just feels a little too short and that the classical techs are slightly too cheap in my impression. What are others' thoughts on this?

- Something seems wrong about the range limit on the advanced bomber. In real life, the B2 would often fly missions from Missouri straight to Iraq and then back even without mid-air refueling IIRC. Not sure if it would disrupt game balance too much, but the current range of 12 is totally a far cry from its real-world ability in this regard. It does come at the very end of the game, after all, and its evasion ability is not incredible, so I don't think it would be OP to make its range something even as high as like 30, since a defending Civ with SAMs or even third-generation fighters isn't otherwise defenseless against them.

- The pedia description for transport helicopters is out of sync with its actual ability. I don't have the game in front of me right now, but I believe the actual numbers involved were different WRT how many units it can actually move.
 
- I decided to try a game without raging barbs, so this time I left that option off. This was my impression before, and it hasn't changed: they really are way too easy under the normal setting. Could we get something in between normal and raging intensity by default? Walter has said that barbarians are supposed to be a threat, not a mere nuisance. While raging is so intense that it effectively forbids openers that aren't first and foremost defense-minded (to the tune that it's often better not even to invest in a worker and to simply work unimproved land instead because anything you can't garrison will just get pillaged) and that's probably too much, they feel both underwhelming and unthreatening by default. Maybe one or two barbarians walked into my empire the whole game in spite of my being right next to a huge dark and scary forest, when they would have eaten my lunch for sure under ranging. It just feels like the "sweet spot" is somewhere in between raging and normal. I'm curious what other players' impression is with this, but in lieu of any changes to this I'll just continue with raging, as that's more fun even if it goes too far with it.

I tried to activate the barbs in one of my restart on the world I'm playing on (and on again due to my personal tests), where I have "upgraded" some native/other nations and some devivative nations too to become normal playable. Result was, that I barely could hold the line and expanded very slowly.... this is completely "ok" with me. But that the Barbs also destroyed 5 of my newly upgraded nations before the game passed year 0 AD. That wasn't ok. So "Raging Barbs" is now off.


BTW: The separatism seems to behave acceptable even with a espionage rate at 55%. It might work with a lower rate - but I know, that the default on 25% is much too low. At least for my taste.
 
Someone else may have mentioned it as well, but that was me. I like that change! What factors did you input and is it entirely random? I think that that shouldn't be applicable to galleons onward, but for carracks/caravels certainly.

It is entirely random - and it will be active until the very last turn. Partly because I like it so :trouble: (it's my own personal changes :cool:) partly because ships (and airplanes) still disapper without any trace - even in our modern and totally controlled world.


But I'm going to make 5 versions of this. 1 for "civil" coastal ships only , 1 for naval coastal ships only, 1 for "civil" ocean ships only, 1 for naval ocean ships only. Those 4 to become active after Shipbuilding is "learned". And then 1 for airplanes and helicopters only (after flight has been learned). And of course.... I need to find some suitable texts for each event. But I have a good fantasy (and a fair translation-engine (not google :wow::dubious:)).
 
The city is the northernmost of mine in the middle continent. It is two tiles to the north of the fort with the superheavy tank stationed in it, if you would like to use the military advisor to identify it. Forgot to take note of its name before closing, but the SVN takes a long time to load.
Thanks, will check after I upload the next revision (since the current one is already save-incompatible with your save).
If the AI is extremely averse to resources with drawbacks, does it not care about the positive epidemic chance from livestock, then?
I believe it doesn't consider epidemic chances in this case at all - technically a bug, but useful in this case.
EDIT: I updated the SVN to 5360, and I see that alliances are still enabled by Administration, as per my previous edit. I don't see this in the sourceforge notes, so I'm assuming it's leftover from my previous edit, but just checking that that's actually the case.
I didn't enable them, and won't in a while, until I run some tests myself.
From which version settled great people are captured from? I have 3.55 and I dont see it working.
It's a vanilla mechanic that was never removed and worked this way all the time.
Also - what is the difference bettwen those:
<iDefense>0</iDefense>
<iObsoleteSafeDefense>0</iObsoleteSafeDefense>
The second one is the defensive bonus that isn't ignored by gunpowder units.
Is it possible to add a line of code that would make captured slaves be used to construct buildings faster?
I love the implication in the phrase "a line of code" that this should be trivial. But yeah, I actually already modified the AI behaviour in SVN so that it actually uses slaves to build regular buildings; what you're seeing in the last release version is them being stockpiled to use on a wonder, and never used otherwise. This behaviour is now gone.
Unlike with swamps, you can simply settle over a jungle tile to remove it without the requisite technology needed to clear it normally. Is this intended or desired for gameplay purposes? It can make a difference in the early game being able to settle on top of gems to get the resource for precious early happiness without having to wait all the way until water pump (and the rather long period of time it would take to chop the jungle and then improve the tile). Conceptually, the settlers are effectively "clearing jungle" in order to lay down the city, so we have to imagine that they have some ability to do this not otherwise available to workers, which is a stretch.
Well, this is vanilla mechanic IIRC. I know what you mean, but I actually feel it's currently WAD as it is. Jungles usually occur in large clusters, so an inability to settle on these tiles would block off lots of potential terrain - while swamps are usually not clustered and one can always build on another nearby tile.
I decided to try a game without raging barbs, so this time I left that option off. This was my impression before, and it hasn't changed: they really are way too easy under the normal setting. Could we get something in between normal and raging intensity by default? Walter has said that barbarians are supposed to be a threat, not a mere nuisance. While raging is so intense that it effectively forbids openers that aren't first and foremost defense-minded (to the tune that it's often better not even to invest in a worker and to simply work unimproved land instead because anything you can't garrison will just get pillaged) and that's probably too much, they feel both underwhelming and unthreatening by default. Maybe one or two barbarians walked into my empire the whole game in spite of my being right next to a huge dark and scary forest, when they would have eaten my lunch for sure under ranging. It just feels like the "sweet spot" is somewhere in between raging and normal. I'm curious what other players' impression is with this, but in lieu of any changes to this I'll just continue with raging, as that's more fun even if it goes too far with it.
I'll look into what I can do here.
Something seems wrong with the design idea for the forge. While the free craftsman is a nice boon, the 5% production multiplier for copper effectively rounds down to nothing in the early game, and by the time that your cities are churning enough hammers for this to register, it will have been replaced by the blast furnace anyway. I like the concept of "having a strategic metal gives you a production bonus with this building" but the way that the math is computed means that this doesn't work as intended. Is it possible to make it round up, so that you're at least getting one additional hammer? That seems balanced and sensible for the classical era.
Rounding up is not a bad idea. Again, I'll see if I can implement this easily.
I'm sure everyone's already aware of this, but unit cost scaling for upgrades does not occur within the same turn, so I often just save up a huge amount of money and upgrade all of them simultaneously without suffering from increased costs, provided it's all on the same turn. This is a gamey workaround of the intended role of that mechanic in the first place, so just checking if that's working as intended.
I don't think what you're saying is right. Are you sure?
Likewise, while I could not directly lead Helepolis of the Great Bombard with a GG, I found out that I could simply stack one regular unit with the siege weapon and have the general lead that unit, then dump the stack XP on the wonder unit, indirectly making it extremely powerful. This actually worked quite well, and I took several cities with an out-of-the-gate combat 3-4, multiple city-raider unit which consistently had 99.99% odds against fortified and full-strength city defenders. I'm not really sure if there's a way to forbid this directly, but I didn't think it was intended, or you would simply be able to lead the great siege weapons with generals directly and in the first place.
That's not really something I was intentionally trying to prevent. The ban on GGs leading siege units was due to AI loving to attach GGs to battering rams for some reason, which was a stupid waste.
As America, my slaves were unable to build my ranches, only the pasture. I can't remember whether or not this is by design though. Reporting in case it's a bug.
Yeah, slaves can't build unique improvements.
It's my general experience that the classical era tends to be a bit too short. Usually, unless I intentionally delay it by deliberately going back and researching every classical tech I don't already have, I find that I'm teching into the medieval era in the late BCs or very early ADs, which just doesn't feel quite right. For gameplay reasons I don't want to be researching against the ahead of time cost penalty, but it breaks immersion a little bit to be expecting the medieval era in the 1st century just about every game. The classical era is quite important in the game, finally getting your cities established and the barbarian threat eclipsing at the exact moment that other civs are now proper threats, with lots of different directional options opening up for you as the player; it just feels a little too short and that the classical techs are slightly too cheap in my impression. What are others' thoughts on this?
Yeah, it does feel this way a bit. I'll see about slowing it down a bit.
Something seems wrong about the range limit on the advanced bomber. In real life, the B2 would often fly missions from Missouri straight to Iraq and then back even without mid-air refueling IIRC. Not sure if it would disrupt game balance too much, but the current range of 12 is totally a far cry from its real-world ability in this regard. It does come at the very end of the game, after all, and its evasion ability is not incredible, so I don't think it would be OP to make its range something even as high as like 30, since a defending Civ with SAMs or even third-generation fighters isn't otherwise defenseless against them.
When I decouple the strategic and tactical bomber lines as I planned, I'll probably buff the strategics' range.
The pedia description for transport helicopters is out of sync with its actual ability. I don't have the game in front of me right now, but I believe the actual numbers involved were different WRT how many units it can actually move.
Thanks, will check.
 
Hey

Wanted to try out your mod. Downloaded, Windows Defender had a tantrum and won’t let me run the installer
 
New commit NOT savegame-compatible. Also, lots of animations got moved around; tried my best to QC, but if you notice any animation weirdness, point it out. Not a lot of fixes for stuff reported/suggested earlier, mostly due to the fact that this update is HEAVY on housekeeping.
I just asked politely, don't be angry with me because I am a layman
Not assuming any malice on your part; just pointed out how it sounded jarring to me. Anyway, that was a legit issue you pointed out, just happens to be one I fixed already.
:)
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Wanted to try out your mod. Downloaded, Windows Defender had a tantrum and won’t let me run the installer
Add an exception to Windows Defender I guess? Never heard people complain before, but I guess they might have updated something and now it's being all paranoid.
 
New commit NOT savegame-compatible. Also, lots of animations got moved around; tried my best to QC, but if you notice any animation weirdness, point it out. Not a lot of fixes for stuff reported/suggested earlier, mostly due to the fact that this update is HEAVY on housekeeping.

Not assuming any malice on your part; just pointed out how it sounded jarring to me. Anyway, that was a legit issue you pointed out, just happens to be one I fixed already.
:)
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Add an exception to Windows Defender I guess? Never heard people complain before, but I guess they might have updated something and now it's being all paranoid.
Thank you for the prompt response

I have’nt owned a Pc in something like a decade; the smart phone + xbox combo pretty much covered the bases up till now, so it’ll take me a while to get back up to speed with windows shenanigans. CAD certs will roughly double my income so that is good motivation

There is probably a right click option that will let me do what you suggest

Looking very forward to trying out your mod and thank you again
 
Thank you for the prompt response

I have’nt owned a Pc in something like a decade; the smart phone + xbox combo pretty much covered the bases up till now, so it’ll take me a while to get back up to speed with windows shenanigans. CAD certs will roughly double my income so that is good motivation

There is probably a right click option that will let me do what you suggest

Looking very forward to trying out your mod and thank you again
IIRC when Windows Defender blocks something, it creates a notification in the lower right corner that lets you choose the course of action. That's on Windows 10 though, didn't upgrade to 11 yet, so can't offer any input on that one.
 
Got to the tail end of another exciting game, and I have to say, that this one was full of war, in spite of or perhaps owing to alliances at administration. There were definite phases of "regroup" and peace, but I never lost the feeling of suspense that I would hear blaring horns upon ending my turn, which proved to be true numerous times. Also, revolutions were probably the most stable I have seen them, though I'm not sure to what extent these factors are related. Here's some more feedback on how this played out testing the alliances, in case that's useful information for Walter if he decides to put them back in officially for 3.6.

I was playing Perfect Mongoose, which ended up spitting out a large western continent with many small islands around it and a big island above it, and an a large eastern continent, all with really close and spidery coastlines. I was playing as America and shared my continent with Ethiopia. Originally, I intended simply to find 5-6 good city spots and hold those peacefully until more expansion would be feasible sometime in the renaissance, but Ethiopia DoWd me pre-IW over refused tribute, and, knowing the perniciousness of the AI, I decided it would be better to just wipe him out completely early on, which I did. Hayam Wuruk was the neighbor in the northern island (and I must say that it was cool to see his settlement preference at play - he promptly settled the ring of islands near me before IIRC filling in his own landmass, and hemmed me in along the coast) and I switched to Islam from him and maintained excellent relations throughout the game, eventually allying once reaching administration.

The other continent had some really interesting dynamics play out. First of all, there was a beautiful, even balance of political geography. This was relatively surprising to see so far into the game, and to see it persisting in large part in spite of several wars occurring between them after making contact. Ragnar, Meiji, Moshoeshoe and, the least of them, one of the Dravidians, each had nice, cohesive little sectors of the eastern continent to themselves. Around the time of riflemen proper (and how ironic, at that, given the leader), Meiji decided to full-scale invade Ragnar (if memory's serving), and took a number of cities, then extended his invasion into my ally and conquered much of Hayam Wuruk's empire. Interestingly, the separatism consequences here seemed more devastating to the victim than to the conqueror, at least initially. I'm actually not sure how that even would work hypothetically, since WW isn't generated in combat within one's own culturally dominant territory, but it nevertheless seemed to happen that way. Hayam's island chain around me mostly broke away and formed China and Khmer (which, lacking any strategic resources, I instantly invaded for capitulation), and he himself was reduced to an insignificant rump state.

Japan had one minor civ break away from it, but had otherwise simply overextended. What's interesting to me, is that Ragnar totally collapsed without having been more than dented. So, he actually more or less "flipped" into a new civ, Russia, as Ivan III, who then allied with Moshoeshoe against Meiji, and reconsolidated each's former separatism losses, with Mozambique going on to conquer Japan entirely, which was able to hold on to seamlessly and begin to run away with the game. This gave me the separatism modifier for having an external threat, and made my own situation much more manageable (because I haven't mentioned the 3 or 4 times that this African-Russian alliance attacked me over refused tribute, reigniting my WW).

This mostly transpired over the course of the early to mid industrial era. I had a lot of fun naval combat too, with superiority here, sinking enemy invasion fleets but taking plenty of my own losses and having to think about my individual moves. By the time we got into late industrial (and I am just on the cusp of modern proper, now), Moshoeshoe was going on his third legendary city, which gave me an excellent opportunity to make good use of my NU as America, because fortunately one of his legendary cities was right on the coast on the other side of his continent, so I was about 75% of the way through building up an invading stack of US Marine and USCMC, with some supporting units, when I got DoWd yet again by their alliance, and, he was concerningly close to legendary culture on that third city, so I went ahead and pooled my fleet together and sent them to go invade Normandy, I mean, Kyoto. :)

This had the annoying consequence of allowing Russia to land a proper invasion which I wasn't able to sink and get a foothold on land, and I lost one city while holding the line at the next one. Constant bombardment from air power kept them trying to heal rather than continuing to invade, but the turn I forgot to do this, they did move out and attack my next city. On the African front, just prior to this war, there was a 3-tile island precisely 8 tiles away from the city I intended to raze. I had strategic bombers with exactly 8 range, so this was fantastic. I had settled that city with a small garrison and a worker before getting DoWd again, and built a fort on the other flat tile. I named the city Runway. :D City bombardment from my capital ships made short work of the city defenses, and my strategic bombers (only intercepted slightly by one fighter from a minor vassal of the enemy) reduced the strength of the garrison handsomely with collateral damage. The marines made short work of the city! The defending machine gun was the tough nut to crack, and I got a lucky battle at 10%, after which all of my odds were good. I razed that city (one of his which was already legendary), but, it turns out that he just had another which was approaching it as well. So, I literally just went marauding and razing several of his cities, in the hopes that I could force secession from his high-culture cities and wipe it out by causing it to flip to the new state, but, one of his major cities was one tile inland, and I blundered my whole stack landing it ashore, thinking I could take just one more city with it. This caused him to go from willing to make gold concessions to refusing to talk, and Russia began prowling through my own empire at this point. So the game is most likely a loss, but quite close, and a lot of fun. All this to say, it seems that alliances are working well, and for whatever good reason, so are revolutions.

More questions and comments:
Spoiler :

- This has been mentioned before, but while logistics is an interesting concept which can be punitive if stack composition isn't particularly varied and adds plenty of depth to combat, I still don't think it's utilizing its full potential as a mechanic, and overwhelming death stacks are still the way to go, if possible, since aid bonuses and the ability to both soften and absorb with superfluous cannon fodder units easily outweighs the maximum penalty of -25%. In real life terms, particularly in the late game with mechanized warfare, combat width is an important factor of tactics which here isn't really represented. Could you create an additional tier of logistics which caps the maximum penalty at -50%? I think that would make some division of forces more natural and common. I don't know if the AI would understand that, however, or if it even presently "knows" that it's taking the -25% penalty when it superstacks its units.

- Does anyone ever not run free market once it becomes available? It could be that I simply haven't branched out and experimented with alternative strategies (and indeed, the AI sometimes runs PE and tends to perform well), but on paper it just seems like the obvious choice too much of the time. In fact, PE's elimination of maintenance from distances of cities seems fairly underwhelming. To straight up swap that with number of cities maintenance would be hugely overpowered, but by this point in the game, for whatever reason, distance maintenance tends to be pretty minor if not almost negligible, relative to the former, unit costs, civic maintenance, etc. In fact, it seems somewhat counterintuitive to me, because far-flung commercial empires like the United Kingdom under Victoria, very much used free market in civ terms, and yet their various colonies all around the world would end up benefiting more from PE than a cohesive, land empire, while in real life these tended to be the ones that attempted this. In any case, FM seems like a necessary crutch without which conquest isn't even feasible to sustain, and that you're left with few good alternatives at this point in the game, and so I wonder if some balance revision might be in order here.

- Likewise, the separatism reduction bonus from Welfare State looks like it could use a buff. -5 is not even quite the equivalent of 2 garrison units, while I would think that most people living in a state which prioritizes the wellbeing of its people would make tolerating the current regime something its people would be more willing to do. Otherwise, it's an expensive and not particularly lucrative civic IMO, so I don't think this would risk making it OP. (EDIT: I got this crossed with Inclusivity, a much stronger civic as it's well-poised for cultural wins, but Welfare State could still probably use this, as it still doesn't seem particularly attractive, even for a dedicated "tall" civ.)

- The Union Rifleman (and perhaps all of this category) uses a bolt-action combat animation. I know that these animations aren't particularly realistic, but mentioning in case you'd like to switch it out with the flintlock combat animation.

- Why can you build the rifled cannon unit before researching the rifled artillery technology? I understand that "artillery" and "cannon" are not strictly synonymous, but maybe consider a name revision here which doesn't sound redundant.

- What's the rationale for cinematograph being a prerequisite for infantry logistics?

- How do you feel about cities acting like canals? In game terms, that can be hugely impactful. In real life, it makes little if any sense. Even forts working as canals is a quite a stretch, given the expense and construction time of real canals relative to what also functions effectively as a simple landing strip in the game. I'm not necessarily in favor myself of eliminating this function, just want to call it out for possible discussion, because it's kind of weird.

- In answer to your question, I am confirming that same-turn unit scaling cost increases in fact do not happen for me. I have saves and screenshots if you'd like to see them. If I save up 5K gold and want to upgrade all of my riflemen to trench infantry, and, say, upgrading one costs 300, it costs 300 for the next, and so on, within the same turn.

- How is the USMC national unit for America conceptually different than the US Marine distinctive unit? I know that marines in general aren't something that America exclusively has, so it should also have a marine unit, but then why not make the NU replace the existing one? Or is it because the modern Marine Corps, being a sort of prestigious and elite force (at least here, it has that image), is treated categorically separately from WW2-era infantry since this reputation is more recent, and supposed to represent infantry of the GWoT era, instead? Just curious here. I think it's a fitting special unit for America.

- Again, could you please reduce the volume for the "City X celebrates 'We love the [leader] day!'"? It is so common in the late game and for some reason overcrowds all of the rest of the sound. I like having a sound notification but if I can't figure out how to reduce the volume there, I might just delete that audio file.

- Airports seem a bit too expensive IMO. All of my mainland cities were fully industrialized with power, and these still ended up taking close to 30 turns to build in most of them, even with several craftsmen. Also, since air units for some reason do not get experience from combat, if you don't buff the cost of the airport, could you at least give them experience out of the gate in cities which have one?

- You can build the war factory before researching assembly line. Is this an oversight?

- Would it be possible to display the combat odds menu continuously while watching a defensive combat animation, the same way that it shows while hovering over an enemy before attacking? I'm not sure if that would be relatively simple or difficult, but if it's manageable, that would improve play a lot. It's difficult to keep track of specific combat odds from the combat log, especially in turns which have many battles, and this way you could read and study what's going on for the 10-15 seconds that the animation is taking place.

- Would it be possible to modify the air bomb cities mission to reduce gold a-la privateers, as well as city defenses, so that having air superiority and running continuous strategic bombing raids is punishing to the victim, rather than simply being preparatory for an invasion?
 
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I know your questions are really aimed at Walter, but re cities as canals I can see three reasons for it:
1) Ships have to be built in and able to enter cities, so it's difficult to design a good system that prevents them going through cities.
2) This is how it works in vanilla (iirc), so it's a hassle to change.
3) This is how it works in Panama. You've got two cities and a two sections of canal, with a lake in the middle (though looking at the map it doesn't actually go through Colon).

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Maybe not a mystery - but still...


I restarted my game approx. 2 weeks ago - on the same map and with the same nations as I have been playing on/with for months - to test some Event-changes I made recently.

Besides this, I also decided to test if the AI had gotten better at handling the separatism feature. And as well also postponing the possibility of paved roads from civil engineering to civil industry - because even though the Romans built their road system with (almost) straight roads from A to B, soooo..... well, so I still think this "design" comes too early - And it was an easy way to solve "my problem".

Facts on the game: Flat map, 200*128 tiles (7156 landtiles), 18 starting nations. After playing 1830 turns, save-game file is 4,620 mB - the biggest save I ever have had! 15 nations including 3 derivative nations/rebel factions are still alive, 9 starting nations/derivative nations/rebel factions are dead. I can see 116 cities on the map, but I guess there are more than 200 "living" cities.


Now to the question - do I/we have a mystery or what??

Because just now this restart has been unusually stable...... Only very, very few CtD during the 1830 turns played - this seems completely "abnormal", compared to how it usually is - especially when you consider the size of the save file. And when you also consider, that separatism is activated now.

Then WHY does the game not crash??? Anyone here, who have a good (or bad) guess???


My own considerations:

I believe we got a more stable game with version 3.57 from dec 2021, where we finally got rid of the black textures. It probably helped - but it can't be the whole reason.
Process-Lasso has also auto-updated itself a couple of times lately. Same as above - it probably helped - but it can't be the whole reason.
Playing with Separatism on? No, certainly not....we usually do not get a more stable game with this module turned on - often quite the opposite.......
Then I only have the "missing" Paved Roads.left..... Well I can't believe that the Paved Roads (and later railroads) could f.ck a big late game up But.....

Right now, of course, I'm satisfied with a stable game - but I do wonder just a little........
 
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