Realism Invictus

This is just an interesting tidbit I came across, but perhaps Walter or others would value the knowledge: when you save the game, the Field of View value you have at the point of the save becomes a multiplier for the size of resource icons upon reloading. At 100, they appear very large and carpet the planet if you zoom out entirely, while saving at 1 results in them becoming very tiny. Also, the range of your zoom seems to be modified by this as well, with 100 resulting in a chandelier shaped planet that occupies only the very center of the screen and 1 causing the terrain to wrap but without fully containing the image of the planet on-screen.

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I used to play with an empty New World, but not anymore. I had hoped that smaller, more advanced civilizations would colonize it—like in real history—but in practice, it’s usually the already massive empires that end up colonizing it as well, growing even more dominant.
To me, an empty New World is a degree of reassurance I can find more resources later in game without necessarily going to war. I like it for this reason, if nothing else.
BTW where does the Russian confederate flag come from? The one with the bear doing a salute... it's pretty cute :mischief: but also pretty badass looking

No specific historical reason, though Yaroslavl is a rather ancient town, but all in all simply representative of the "core" Russian principalities. It just felt aesthetically appropriate; I saw the flag and thought "this might work for a loose confederation of Russian principalities".
This discussion about paths/roads takes special consideration in my game because of how many trees are in the surroundings, building a path takes me like 20-30 turns in those tundras, much more a road, and I gotta build like 7 of those damned things! I got 4 cities (yeah I spammed those settlers lol) and one of them is still not connected to the others so that's a big pain in the ass because I got that one in the only coast I could safely reach, given the available resources (seriously as a kid I loved to settle my civs in tundras but now they all seem like deserts with trees to me), yet it's very far away to the north.
As they say, "there are no roads in Russia, just directions"... Russian NI was specifically designed to keep the territory forested and proper roads painful.
1) Lack of siege equipment. AI insists on using one siege engine in its invasions. This leads to horrible sieges where the AI often doesn't have the patience to whittle the walls down to 0 percent. This issue becomes very problematic with walls and doubly so with castles. Could this be due to the logistics system. The AI aims to not go above a certain lvl logistics so tries to "max" the armies potential of stacking it with non siege equipment? For assaulting cities, the AI needs to have a bare minimum of two siege equipment per army. For larger armies, at least 3. This will get worse with bombards, as my armies will be able to bombard their troops to maximum effect while they offer little counter fire.
I'll look into it.
2) Faraway wars-I saw on a changelog that fixes were made to reduce this but it still sadly occurs in at least Triassic.
I'm not sure there's much to be done there. There isn't really a specific distance consideration that I'm aware of, just "my area"/"not my area", and in case of the biggest maps it begins to break down obviously, as "my area" is the whole of Eurasia (or rather the whole of Old World). Just one more reason to hate the World Maps for me...
3) Bonus Sadness-Naval invasions
I doubt I'll do anything about that one.
This is really interesting! Never thought of it like that before in such concrete terms. If you were to ask me does California extract Midwest, I would say no, but this spells it out pretty well. Though, California's wealth is built on big tech, so technically it plunders the poor regions of the globe for rare earth minerals but I get your point.
Well, to be completely fair, it probably does extract talent, since it provides more opportunities for both education and work, but it's still obviously nowhere comparable to a direct extractive imperialist economy.
My main gripe with it is that AI chooses to build road when a cart path makes more sense. Good example is if a resource is out of the way and not leading to anywhere where your armies need to travel. So, it wastes time constructing roads to an isolated resource when it could have just built a cart path. Not sure if this can be fixed as this requires more spatial and general reasoning?
I am not quite sure a cart path makes that much more sense. Having easy access to a tile might be crucial at wartime (or in a barbarian incursion). But all in all, I believe currently AI simply builds the best route type available to it. It isn't all that hard to change, but I am not sure if it makes enough difference to merit implementing.
Right. I'm a bit tired of having eastern asia or north europe asking me for military help, then hitting me with diplomacy malus for refusing.
"No, I can't invade Ireland right now, nor can I send an army to Korea. I'm a bit busy with, you know, MY NEIGHBOR !"
I'll take a look into the calling into wars at some point. Probably. Not something I'm terribly excited to do.
Is it wasted, truely ? Every AI around me seems to LOVES slavery, and also seems to keep their slaves around (instead of killing them for production boost on building).
That's sad to hear, as I thought I already taught AI to use slaves to rush buildings.
This is just a brainstorm — just getting ideas out and seeing what you all think. I think there's a lot of potential for AI tuning too: the AI should be smart enough to avoid these buildings when it's playing wide, and only prioritize them when it's got a small, dense empire or a super-developed capital.


Would love to hear thoughts! Balancing ideas, name suggestions, better real-world wonder fits.
I won't go into the details of your table, but I'll provide my general take.

Firstly, I want to distinguish between "soft-tall" and "hard-tall"; basically, "playing tall" is not a singular style - it ranges from never expanding to deliberately expanding slower than your neighbours. Basically, a "hard-tall" play would be just sticking to your initial city, whereas a "soft-tall" might be having 6 cities when your neighbour has 12.

With this in mind, I feel RI is already quite rewarding to soft-tall playstyles, as a reasonably tall civ can easily be more effective than a wider empire. There are several diminishing returns mechanisms in place that limit additive benefits of unlimited expansion, and there are also many more buildings that exist in limited numbers and wonders that benefit a single city than in vanilla (and you will be glad to know that there are at least two more wonders and one more mechanic lined up for implementation that are vastly more beneficial to smaller empires).

Conversely, "hard-tall" in my opinion is not and should not be viable in Civ 4 unless a lot of basic design decisions are ripped up and reimplemented differently. Ultimately, one of the pillars of Civ 4 is territorial control. Resource-based gameplay all but guarantees that one city (or a very small number of cities) cannot possibly have enough resources to develop properly, unless provided with all sorts of crutches. While some such "crutches" already exist (such as wonders providing certain key resources to those who can't source them on map), ultimately this is simply something that Civ 4 isn't designed to do, and artificially ensuring the viability of single-city or miniature civs feels exactly that - artificial.

And appealing to small yet successful countries is not really productive - a civilisation isn't a country, even if one can be misled by the usage of country names and flags in-game. "Singapore" is not a civilisation; it's at best a part of Austronesian civilisation. A civilisation can be a singular political entity (USA, or Carthage) but can also be represented by hundreds of independent entities (Holy Roman Empire or historical India).
This is just an interesting tidbit I came across, but perhaps Walter or others would value the knowledge: when you save the game, the Field of View value you have at the point of the save becomes a multiplier for the size of resource icons upon reloading. At 100, they appear very large and carpet the planet if you zoom out entirely, while saving at 1 results in them becoming very tiny. Also, the range of your zoom seems to be modified by this as well, with 100 resulting in a chandelier shaped planet that occupies only the very center of the screen and 1 causing the terrain to wrap but without fully containing the image of the planet on-screen.
It's kind of how it's supposed to work - it uses FoV as a proxy of resolution to evaluate the needed size. The way f1rpo coded it, it can use two methods, FoV or resolution itself, and he allowed changing between them in BUG settings. I wasn't brave enough to mess with BUG stuff (I generally don't unless I absolutely have to), so both options are theoretically there, but it hard-defaults to the FoV one. I feel out of the two it is the better one, as it allows a degree of control of how big you want them. To me, it produces better results at FoV settings I usually use.
 
It's kind of how it's supposed to work - it uses FoV as a proxy of resolution to evaluate the needed size. The way f1rpo coded it, it can use two methods, FoV or resolution itself, and he allowed changing between them in BUG settings. I wasn't brave enough to mess with BUG stuff (I generally don't unless I absolutely have to), so both options are theoretically there, but it hard-defaults to the FoV one. I feel out of the two it is the better one, as it allows a degree of control of how big you want them. To me, it produces better results at FoV settings I usually use.

Interesting, and I also personally like the degree of customization it affords the player, just thought I would point it out in case that was unknown previously, especially since there was recent work done on scaling them. :)
 
How does the Great Library tech transfer rate ("+100% tech transfer rate") work? Is it doubling your tech transfer (20% -> 40%), adding to your tech transfer (20% -> 120%), or specifying your tech transfer (20% -> 100%)? The wording is very vague.



The Huns event is terribly unfun. 3 Horse archers that ignore terrain movement costs and 3 Cataphracts showing up 2 tiles away from a newly founded city before I even have composite bowmen isn't the kind of experience that makes me go "hey, this is a great challenge". It's the kind of experience that makes me have no remorse for loading an autosave from 10 turns earlier and positioning my units in preparation for it.
 
I got this today
This is when the logs would have been helpful. A screenshot contains zero information, unfortunately.
How does the Great Library tech transfer rate ("+100% tech transfer rate") work? Is it doubling your tech transfer (20% -> 40%), adding to your tech transfer (20% -> 120%), or specifying your tech transfer (20% -> 100%)? The wording is very vague.
It's multiplicative, so it doubles it. It is additive with the modifiers from tech (so if you have GL and Paper, you'll have 20->50%, for instance). They are all multipliers to the base rate. If you have suggestions on how this can be worded in a clearer way, I'll gladly have those.
The Huns event is terribly unfun. 3 Horse archers that ignore terrain movement costs and 3 Cataphracts showing up 2 tiles away from a newly founded city before I even have composite bowmen isn't the kind of experience that makes me go "hey, this is a great challenge". It's the kind of experience that makes me have no remorse for loading an autosave from 10 turns earlier and positioning my units in preparation for it.
I checked it, and it could indeed stand to be tightened in terms of the trigger. It can fire way too soon.
 
Doubling from the great library is too much. On a huge world map with this miracle and paper, YOU CAN GET +400% access to technology. It's too much Better give her a +50% bonus
Aaand can make it so that the epidemic has given debuffs 5 moves, but killed only 1 person. It's just that in the jungle, more than 4-5 residents of the city don't grow at all.
 
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Doubling from the great library is too much.
Since you're not even on SVN from my knowledge, your opinion on the current tech transfer balance is largely irrelevant. SVN users (those who haven't already changed values to their own, making their observations moot as well) are welcome to share their observations BTW; my feeling from the test games is that the current tech progress is a bit too slow.
 
Since you're not even on SVN from my knowledge, your opinion on the current tech transfer balance is largely irrelevant. SVN users (those who haven't already changed values to their own, making their observations moot as well) are welcome to share their observations BTW; my feeling from the test games is that the current tech progress is a bit too slow.
I ran a game that progressed all the way to the modern era, and I wanted to share a few quick observations regarding technological progress and revolutions.
Initially, I suspected that revolutions were the main reason for the slowdown in tech advancement during the modern age. However, it turns out that revolutions weren’t the only factor. In fact, revolutions now function quite well since the AI has learned to recognize that espionage-induced instability is a temporary thing.
The bigger issue seems to be the sheer cost of technologies in the modern era—particularly on giant maps, where many leaders control 25–30 cities. With city count scaling tech costs, it often takes 25–35 turns to research a single technology. In response, I slightly increased the tech transfer rate back to +20%/+20%, though I realize this alone doesn’t fully solve the problem.
As for revolutions themselves: even though I previously experimented with slightly harsher settings, I’ve come to the conclusion that the default revolution values are actually quite well-balanced. When set too high, they tend to cause an excessive number of frustrating revolts in the late game.
 
Yeah, I am also coming to the conclusion that the late-game tech costs are currently too high. I'll likely tune them down.
Please also consider slightly increasing the cost of the very first technologies. As a reference point, I believe that on the Giant World Map, they should ideally cost 110 research points—just enough to be completed in exactly 10 turns. At the moment, early techs are researched in fewer than 10 turns, which feels a bit too fast.
 
Maybe it's better to make sure that the second city doesn't increase the cost of technology, but from the third city, as usual.
 
It's multiplicative, so it doubles it. It is additive with the modifiers from tech (so if you have GL and Paper, you'll have 20->50%, for instance). They are all multipliers to the base rate. If you have suggestions on how this can be worded in a clearer way, I'll gladly have those.
I'd probably go with something like "Double tech transfer base rate", which makes it clear that it's affecting the base rate and not the total rate, and doesn't overload percentages as a tech transfer measurement unit. It would be nice to see a breakdown of that when hovering over the actively researched tech when it gets a transfer bonus. Right now it just says "+X% tech transfer", with your total bonus. If in addition to that is had a sub-list with:

  • 20% base tech transfer rate
  • +20% tech transfer rate (Great Library)
  • +10% tech transfer rate (Paper)
  • 4 transferring civilizations
it would help clarify things a lot.

I checked it, and it could indeed stand to be tightened in terms of the trigger. It can fire way too soon.
Yeah. Especially now when some civs tend to spear forward towards specific techs, one civ having horseback riding and one civ having iron working isn't indicative of the world tech level. It also doesn't line up with real world Attila, triggering nearly a thousand years earlier in my case.

It would be more immersive if the units spawned in a barb city instead of on your borders, so that it feels like that city is on a march to take you down. Or for more color, the event could actually convert a barb city into the Hun civ, give it the units, and then have it declare war on the nearest player. That would reduce the need of creating a big stack of units right away as Attila will likely keep producing units.

SVN users (those who haven't already changed values to their own, making their observations moot as well) are welcome to share their observations BTW
Haven't had much of a chance to play with it yet, but I'm not too worried about the tech transfer boost from the Great Library. It's only for one civ and doesn't directly contribute when they're the first civ to research a tech. The GL used to provide two free great scientists and I would take that effect over the current one in a heartbeat, so if that was too good, the current boost feeling impactful but not as impactful as that old GL effect is probably the sweet spot.

my feeling from the test games is that the current tech progress is a bit too slow.
Please also consider slightly increasing the cost of the very first technologies. As a reference point, I believe that on the Giant World Map, they should ideally cost 110 research points—just enough to be completed in exactly 10 turns. At the moment, early techs are researched in fewer than 10 turns, which feels a bit too fast.
Might it be worth changing the research rate modifier on map sizes?

Currently, playing on Giant maps on Immortal difficulty, the research rate in my games has been feeling absolutely spot on. Things being researched at the relatively right times, and in a good cadence that allows the game to feel dynamic but not hectic.

There was an attempt at making ancient era research more expensive about half a year ago, and on the above settings the game became an absolute slog. So if the research rate is feeling too slow at the moment, I'd encourage looking at the game setting modifiers (map size, difficulty) rather than the actual tech costs and seeing if there's opportunity to streamline the rates throught hem. Maybe there's currently too much variance between the settings and they should be brought into closer alignment? That way, changing costs based on standard maps on monarch difficulty won't have outsized impacts on giant maps at higher difficulties.
 
That's sad to hear, as I thought I already taught AI to use slaves to rush buildings.

Don't take too much of my words on that : I didn't really test it or whatever, it was just an observation as I saw a lot of Slaves running around building improvements.
But I didn't went in the editor to check exactly what happened. For all I know, they could as well had a lot of slaves, used a bunch to speed buildings and only kept a few to build improvements. And it's just the number of wars and territories conquerred that made that "few" being 10+ slaves.
 
-Maybe diaspora merchants should be tweaked where trade bonus is related to how far they are from any of your cities, not just capital? They are my final, most critical piece holding my whole empire together and in my setup, it's easy money.

ISTR back in Civ II days, the Caravan unit (camel icon) generated more revenue based on the distance from its source city. That's both in the one-time cash hit when the trade route is initially established and the per-turn generation. There was also the factor of the size of the city your were about to trade with: bigger city, bigger rewards. Since the AI/UI manages the trades per city now, I don't think there's an analogous Civ IV/RI mechanism here. We also know that in RI the number of trade routes is dependent on improvements (e.g. - river docks and harbors). There was also a Civ II cap on three trade routes per city, and they *had* to be created by the caravan unit. If you didn't build them, they (revenue) didn't come.

It's just the similarity in purpose between the Civ II caravan and the RI Diaspoa Merchants that tickled my memory.

 
Just one more reason to hate the World Maps for me...
Owww :shake: I love world maps, specially the Huge. What is it that you guys don't like about them?
As they say, "there are no roads in Russia, just directions"... Russian NI was specifically designed to keep the territory forested and proper roads painful.
Excellent job at that cause I don't see myself cutting most of those trees ever, this is going to be an interesting game.
And it's just the number of wars and territories conquerred that made that "few" being 10+ slaves.
I can confirm this, I've seen enemy cities with so many slaves I thought they were multiplying or something! :lol: I'm sure the AI knows well how to use them, because players with slavery seem to be pretty high in the scoreboard in the early phases (that might have more to do with researching the tech associated with it but... whatever)
 
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As I just wrote in my Spinn-Off:

Sorry to write this - but the AI never seems to learn. It is not very wise to declare war on a neighbor when you have not ensured proper defense of your own vulnerable cities.
 
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