Realistic Civics

[Afforess]

Well from what I can see without actually USING the civics, and without the 3 missing categories they seem balanced, and better (read: more realistic) than the current ones. Looks like early techs will come noticeably slower - much more realistic than it is ATM. Nice to see despotism finally have a use, production = more troops Needing military training to use despotism made it come so late you were better of waiting for monarchy anyway.

I'll d/l these when you put them in beta.

Glad to see I have supporters.

I looked at the code, and it should be fairly easy to make a "Religion Spread Change" tag to the XML, IMO. I will add it today, and test it out.

 

[Afforess]

Just wrapped up adding the new religion spread modifier, and got it 100% working. So what civics should increase the rate, and which one's should slow it down, in your opinion?

Edit:
Also note, with this modifier, you can make it so religions can not spread, period. Even state religions.

 

[Blackflag421]

I'd go with (for initial testing purposes):

Government - Theocracy already stops non-state religion spread, increase state religion spread. Don't see why any of the others should have an effect. Reduced (?%) missionary cost.

Religious -
Folklore: Slow all religions spread
Divine Right: Slightly increase state religion spread
State church: Increase state religion spread, decrease non-state religion spread. Somewhat reduced (?%) missionary cost.
Religious tolerance: Increase all religions spread. Somewhat increase (?%) missionary cost.
Intolerant: Already stops non-state religion spread, greatly increase state religion spread. Reduced (?%) missionary cost.
Freedom of religion: Greatly increase all religion spread. Increase (?%) missionary cost.
Abolishment of religion: already stops all religion spread. No prophet specialists/GPs, no missionaries allowed.

Immigration -
None: No effect.
Open borders: Increase non-state religion spread.
Closed borders: Decrease non-state religion spread.
Skilled labor only: Slightly decrease non-state religion spread.
Secure borders: Slightly increase non-state religion spread.

Education -
Religious Training: Increase state religion spread. Slightly reduce (?%) missionary cost.
Mind control: No religion spread, -90% missionary cost. (you control their minds... they believe what you tell them to!)

Commerce: Just a basic more trade = more non-state spread, less trade = less spread. Barter would have no effect. The 3 missing civics would all probably have an effect as well.

May have missed some, just wrote this between turns in my current game. I'd drastically increase the hammer cost on missionaries if you implemented all this, so religions would spread more naturally, based on your choices. You COULD still spread them manually... but it would be costly, while running an extremely religious setup would make missionaries spammable. Don't know how feasible all this is, or even if it should be implemented (how would the AI handle it?), just something I thought of all of a sudden while looking at your civic remake.

What are your thoughts? Good? Bad? Totally IMBA? Can't believe you wasted your time reading this post?

Edited for typo.

 

[Afforess]

I'd go with (for initial testing purposes):

Government - Theocracy already stops non-state religion spread, increase state religion spread. Don't see why any of the others should have an effect. Reduced (?%) missionary cost.

Religious -
Folklore: Slow all religions spread
Divine Right: Slightly increase state religion spread
State church: Increase state religion spread, decrease non-state religion spread. Somewhat reduced (?%) missionary cost.
Religious tolerance: Increase all religions spread. Somewhat increase (?%) missionary spread.
Intolerant: Already stops non-state religion spread, greatly increase state religion spread. Reduced (?%) missionary cost.
Freedom of religion: Greatly increase all religion spread. Increase (?%) missionary cost.
Abolishment of religion: already stops all religion spread. No prophet specialists/GPs, no missionaries allowed.

Immigration -
None: No effect.
Open borders: Increase non-state religion spread.
Closed borders: Decrease non-state religion spread.
Skilled labor only: Slightly decrease non-state religion spread.
Secure borders: Slightly increase non-state religion spread.

Education -
Religious Training: Increase state religion spread. Slightly reduce (?%) missionary cost.
Mind control: No religion spread, -90% missionary cost. (you control their minds... they believe what you tell them to!)

Commerce: Just a basic more trade = more non-state spread, less trade = less spread. Barter would have no effect. The 3 missing civics would all probably have an effect as well.

May have missed some, just wrote this between turns in my current game. I'd drastically increase the hammer cost on missionaries if you implemented all this, so religions would spread more naturally, based on your choices. You COULD still spread them manually... but it would be costly, while running an extremely religious setup would make missionaries spammable. Don't know how feasible all this is, or even if it should be implemented (how would the AI handle it?), just something I thought of all of a sudden while looking at your civic remake.

What are your thoughts? Good? Bad? Totally IMBA? Can't believe you wasted your time reading this post?

Looks fine. I added the new modifier, so I should use it. Increasing missionary cost seems fine too.

 

[i_diavolorosso]

Just wrapped up adding the new religion spread modifier, and got it 100% working. So what civics should increase the rate, and which one's should slow it down, in your opinion?

Edit:
Also note, with this modifier, you can make it so religions can not spread, period. Even state religions.

Whoa that's good
So, does it look like research/culture modifier?
And will we get one modifier for each religion present in our civ?

 

[Afforess]

Whoa that's good
So, does it look like research/culture modifier?
And will we get one modifier for each religion present in our civ?

ATM, it's just a plain modifier for all religion spread. It isn't for any specific religion. I don't really see the need for such a complex modifier. If you want to stop non-state religion spread, you already can.

As for using it, this is how it works:

It defaults to 100%. This means religion spread at 100% of there normal rate, which means they spread normally. Setting the value to 10 in the XML adds 10% to the existing default of 100%, so religions would spread at 110% of the normal rate, or 10% faster. -10 in the XML subtracts 10% from the religion spread rate, so religions spread at 90% of the normal rate, 10% slower. Setting the XML to -100 would make it so the spread rate was 0, and no religions would spread. Setting the XML below -100 would cause errors in game, so don't do that. So there is a minimum you can set it to, it is -100. Anything higher than that, is okay.

Edit:

I realized that there was a chance of a modder not knowing that numbers less than -100 for religion spread rate would cause garbage, so I changed the code to protect it from that. So now, if it goes below -100, it just resets to 0. (No religion spread.)

 

[Blackflag421]

Now just need those 3 missing categories, and whatever else you were going to add. Then beta time! Generalstaff's civics buildings would have to be redone entirely for these, only downside I see.

Did you know the Department of Defense was originally named the less politically correct (but far more accurate) War Department?

 

[Afforess]

Now just need those 3 missing categories, and whatever else you were going to add. Then beta time! Generalstaff's civics buildings would have to be redone entirely for these, only downside I see.

Eh, it might be farther off than that. I never could get the Diplomacy modifiers to work. Despite a 10+ page long thread in the SDK/Python thread with 4 different people helping me.

Did you know the Department of Defense was originally named the less politically correct (but far more accurate) War Department?

The best defense is a good offense.

 

[Blackflag421]

Were you set on the dip modifiers, or did you have alternative downsides for those civics?

Alas, I don't know python so I can't help you fix that :/

 

[Afforess]

Were you set on the dip modifiers, or did you have alternative downsides for those civics?

Alas, I don't know python so I can't help you fix that :/

I'm sure I could come up with a work around, but it would be unwieldy, and pretty ugly in the SDK...

Anyway, this isn't my highest priority right now. You probably won't see these until RoM 2.9

 

[Blackflag421]

Released alongside Duke Nukem Forever then, eh?














Kidding, seriously. Don't know how you have time to eat AND sleep with all the work on RoM mods you're doing.

 

[Afforess]

Released alongside Duke Nukem Forever then, eh?

The day after DNF is released. I promise.

Don't know how you have time to eat AND sleep with all the work on RoM mods you're doing.

AND have a social life.

AND ace all my college classes.

AND read the news and keep up with current events.

AND play other games in my free time. (I just re-played Crysis, on hard difficulty this time.)

AND have a life.

My secret? I use dark* magic and summon the time demons to reverse the...

I said too much. I think it's time for bed, it's 01:00 here....

* is there any other kind?

 

[Hydromancerx]

AND read the news and keep up with current events.

I don't know about the rest but you could multi-task and keep up on current events by listening to the radio while playing RoM. That's what I do

 

[Afforess]

I don't know about the rest but you could multi-task and keep up on current events by listening to the radio while playing RoM. That's what I do

I read the news online while I wait for my latest source code to compile. It takes 10 minutes, so it gives me time to read a few stories...

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

# Private ownership (Requires: Banking)

* Low Upkeep
* +15% Commerce
* +1 Unhealthiness in all cities
* Improvements grow 35% Faster
* Cities Grow 8% Faster
* -25% Corporation Costs
* Population is less rebellious

Though this is made available with Banking, could this method of housing also refer to modern gated communities? I just whimsically read up on the ups and downs of these forms of residence, and thought this was the closest to associate it with.

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

I just thought of this on the fly, and I'll admit I may not be as deep or capable of really interpreting these concepts, so thoughts or input are more than welcome.

Department of Transportation


Private Transport (Requires Motorized Transportation)

• Medium Upkeep
• +1 Happiness in all Cities
• +2 Unhealthiness in all Cities
• Cities grow slower (10%-20%?)
• Improvements grow faster (10%-20%?)
• +25% Maintenance Cost in all Cities
• +10%-20%? Trade Yield from Domestic Routes

Public Transport (Requires Mass Transit)

• Low Upkeep
• +2 Happiness in all Cities
• +1 Healthiness in all Cities
• +25% Construction Rate for Public Transit
• -20% Maintenance Cost in all Cities
• Cities grow faster (10%-20%?)
• Improvements grow faster (15%-25%?)

Planned Transport (Requires Civil Engineering? Logistics?)

• High Upkeep
• Workers build Roads, Railroads, and Highways faster (10%-20%?)
• -25% Maintenance Cost in all Cities
• Cities grow slower (15%-20%?)
• Improvements grow faster (10%-20%?)
• +1 Trade Route

Sustainable Transport (Requires Ecology)

• High Upkeep/Astronomical Upkeep?
• +2 Happiness in all Cities
• +2 Healthiness in all Cities
• +30% Maintenance Cost in all Cities
• Cities grow faster (15%-25%?)
• Improvements grow faster (15%-25%?)
• +1 Trade Route

High-Tech Transport (Requires Robotics)

• Astronomical Upkeep
• +3 Happiness in all Cities
• +1 Unhealthiness in all Cities
• +30% Maintenance Cost in all Cities
• Cities grow faster (+25%)
• Improvements grow faster (+25%)
• Workers, Clones build Roads, Railroads, Highways, Mag Lev +25%-50%? faster
• +2 Trade Routes
• +25% Trade Yield