Redrawing the Map

[Guangxi]

X= communist alliance
O= the Allies [capitalist countries]
_
[_]= neutrals
^thats meant to be a square.
meh. a vague image of what i think the world would be like if america lost the revolutionary war. france is still a republic, by the way. bourgeosie were even more pissed at the king because he wasted so much money helping a lost cause, and of course republican ideals wouldnt have died just because a war in america was lost. alaska has the Russian Republic, generally referred to as Alaska [no-one to buy alaska]. its like Taiwan IRL. Napoleon granted Louisiane independence, no-one to sell it to.
mexico breaks treaties, as you can see.
argentina joined the allies in exchange for the falklands.
chile had no coup or the bloody dictatorship that followed.
Irelnad had the 1798 rebellion, lost parliament,eventually got it back after WW1, gradually became more independent.
austria should be in the allies, not the comintern, twas an error.
the dutch lost control of indonesia to japan as in real life, while the soviets began landing on japan, the brits took over the indonesian state.
didnt give it back to netherlands, main reason netherlnads is neutral.
belgium was stripped of the congo, joined holland in neutrality.

not sure whether decolonisation would have happened as in real life, so the colonies are just guesswork. especially indonesia and congo.

 

[Azkonus]

Just joining Greece and Turkey would already create a viable byzantine empire. Although pretty much anything that has Constantinople and Thessalonike would

Hey be happy with your Atina (Athens) which is a pure Greek city. Plus Istanbul is unbelivable dependent on Anatolia and can't be seperated.

You are so in love with Istanbul, have you ever visited the "Queen of the cities" though?

 

[Dann]

So why would Ukraine join Russia? They hate Russia more than the Americans hate Commies.

I'm not that familiar with eastern European sentiments. I merely lumped the nations nearest Russia with her. No offense meant.

That's why I said "whoever wishes to join her". It's quite obvious that Russia will NEVER be a part of the E.U.

 

[Bill3000]

I'm not that familiar with eastern European sentiments. I merely lumped the nations nearest Russia with her. No offense meant.

That's why I said "whoever wishes to join her". It's quite obvious that Russia will NEVER be a part of the E.U.

Quite literally the only nation that would even remotely consider itself to join with Russia is Belarus, and even that's shaky.

 

[Dann]

Where as you lumped Pakistan and India in the same group,

Nope. Pakistan is in the I.U. Check the map again.

the same with Japan and China,.

Take away recent historical grievances and they actually have lots in common. Perhaps one day they can learn to work togethr again.

or China and Vietnam,.

Nope. Vietnam is in SEA.U. Check the map again.

or North and South Korea..

They're one people! Their current unfortunate state was forced upon them by outside factors!

Yet you leave Israel independent

They HAVE to be. The Bible says so.

And have you considered the fact that the Canadians cant even keep all their provinces in line?

Hence separation into separate entities and then membership into a looser Federation.

Lets not go into Iran and Iraq, or the idea you can keep all of Africa in line.

Like I said in some areas (like Africa particularly) old national borders will have to be redrawn. Iraq will most likely no longer exist.

Over-optimistic imagery at is worst.

I agree wholeheartedly. But then, this is a thread where we show others our vision is it not? However deluded it may be.....

 

[Dann]

Quite literally the only nation that would even remotely consider itself to join with Russia is Belarus, and even that's shaky.

Ah ok. Thanks.

How about the smaller nations in the Caucasus? How do they feel about Russia?

 

[Bill3000]

Ah ok. Thanks.

How about the smaller nations in the Caucasus? How do they feel about Russia?

Not much on Wikipedia for Armenia, but I assume that at least in terms of being in the same scale of at least being pissed for the fact that Land had been tranferred from its country to Azerbaijan and Turkey, as well as the denial of the Armenian Genocide. It's closer than the Ukraine, probably, but not as much.

Georgia, however, has withdrawn from the Council of Defense Ministers, and had decided to focus on NATO. Potential EU member, I believe.

Actually, more importantly, check the article on the [wiki]Commonwealth_of_Independent_States[/wiki] for a better description of the CIS.

I'd probably bet that the Caucasus (at least the Christian states) would be more inclined to join the EU in the end. However, I highly doubt that any of the CIS members, with the possible exception of Belarus, would be interested in joining a federation with Russia that will obviously be Russia dominated. It just screams of Imperialism.

I'd also like to note that Belarus is considered the last true dictatorship in Europe.

 

[Dann]

What have the Uyghurs and Tibetens done that you it it so and wish so badly that it be annexed?

If you look at my map and read my explanation you'll see that I agree to them having complete self-determination over their domestic affairs. I just hate to see them split off now, in the current state of the world (and of China).

@Bill3000
Thanks.

 

[Zarn]

I'm not that familiar with eastern European sentiments. I merely lumped the nations nearest Russia with her. No offense meant.

That's why I said "whoever wishes to join her". It's quite obvious that Russia will NEVER be a part of the E.U.

Hey, no worries. I just have Ukrainian blood (plus others). Lets just say the Mongols were involved in the feud.

 

[Bill3000]

Hey, no worries. I just have Ukrainian blood (plus others). Lets just say the Mongols were involved in the feud.

Eastern Rite, I assume?

 

[Zarn]

Eastern Rite, I assume?

I'm not sure, because I have a lot of blood from Catholic countries and Catholics from non-Catholic countries, Cuban blood being the largest amount.

 

[Bill3000]

not sure whether decolonisation would have happened as in real life, so the colonies are just guesswork. especially indonesia and congo.

(and stuff)
Alaska was a Russian colony, and given the fact that there was no US to purchase it, it would most likely remain in her hands.
I doubt Germany would go through the same territorial reductions from WW1 and WW2, given how critical the US was to the industrial output of the allies, at least in WW2.

 

[Guangxi]

(and stuff)
Alaska was a Russian colony, and given the fact that there was no US to purchase it, it would most likely remain in her hands.
I doubt Germany would go through the same territorial reductions from WW1 and WW2, given how critical the US was to the industrial output of the allies, at least in WW2.

my general idea was that the smaller american state and louisiane would make up the difference, and maybe mexico might join in.
although i havent really fully thought it out.
as for alaska, i`m just imagining that the UK stepped in during the revolution [as they did historically, they sent troops to help the whites] and prevented alaska being occupied.
________________________________________________

Spoiler :

what europe might look like if the axis won.
based largely on the map of germanys "new order" in europe november 1942 in my historical atlas.
those eastern states are Reichskommissariat Ostland, Reichskommissariat Ukraine and Reichskommissariat Moskau, more or less colonies of germany.

things i am unsure of;
1. what would happen to wallonia [french speaking belgium]?
2. would greece go the way of albania, or be independent/semi-independent?
3. would northern ireland be given to the republic of ireland after operation sealion [invasion of britain]?
4. would Karelia and kola be any more palatable to finland in the 40s? i`m assuming they are in this case.
5. would spain enter the axis alliance and get any territory, eg morocco?

 

[Miles Teg]

Nope. Pakistan is in the I.U. Check the map again.

My mistake, I cruised over the map before going to the dentists. Complaint withdrawn

Take away recent historical grievances and they actually have lots in common. Perhaps one day they can learn to work together again.

People don't forgive easy, I suspect their are still people in China that cherish their great-great grandfathers death at the hands of a Japanese pirate

Nope. Vietnam is in SEA.U. Check the map again.

Again, my apologies

They're one people! Their current unfortunate state was forced upon them by outside factors!

Hmm... It's just possible, though it would require change in NK, almost certainly violent ones

They HAVE to be. The Bible says so.

Their are better ways to throw a bone to extremists

Hence separation into separate entities and then membership into a looser Federation.

Totally and utterly logical. But to many people want the trimmings, the flag, the Anthem, and national duck.

Iraq will most likely no longer exist.

It doesn't matter, That hatred goes back to the Persians sacking Babylon, I'm starting to think that the hatred has sunk deep enough that two rabbits from their respective countries would fight

I.U. = Islamic Union. NOT, repeat, NOT a Caliphate, but a secular union of a series of contiguous nations sharing a common faith and related cultures. If they want a supreme spiritual leader they may have one, but he will merely have just as much political power as the Catholic Pope.

There go's all chance of it working . Have you considered how long it took to pull the Pope's fangs? Even in the fifteenth century he could still split a continent between Spain and Portugal. The Moslem's history shows even more power placed in the "guy with the hat".

SEA.U. (Now theres a name ) could be probably be scrapped. India exerts allot of influence on the mainland, whereas the islands are nearly as islamic as Arabia. Anything else can be part of Australia.

I agree wholeheartedly. But then, this is a thread where we show others our vision is it not? However deluded it may be.....

But some are more deluded than others. None the less I applaud your willingness to dream a better world. People just weren't designed for Utopia

 

[Dann]

People don't forgive easy, I suspect their are still people in China that cherish their great-great grandfathers death at the hands of a Japanese pirate

Indeed. And I think it's stupid and a waste of time. The past is past. What Chinese people need to do now is make their country so powerful and influential once again that the neighbors not only won't harbor any more thoughts of invading or starting a war, but actually start sucking up big time. Think Tang dynasty times.

SEA.U. (Now theres a name ) could be probably be scrapped. India exerts allot of influence on the mainland, whereas the islands are nearly as islamic as Arabia. Anything else can be part of Australia.

I realized that Southeast Asia has always been the economic and cultural battleground for India and China, hence the need for them to put up a united front in order to have any bargaining power viz-a-viz these 2 giants.

The islands (with the exception of Philippines and some individual Indonesian islands) may be Islamic, but it is a more pragmatic Islam. There is a reason why religious nutcases are a fringe group there, and not the ones running the government.

The O.U. already gets the entire Pacific. That would make them the biggest political entity in the world in area (except that most of it is water). What more do they want?

 

[Bill3000]

It doesn't matter, That hatred goes back to the Persians sacking Babylon, I'm starting to think that the hatred has sunk deep enough that two rabbits from their respective countries would fight

Uh. You do know that the most significant capital of pre-Islamic Persia prior to the invasion was Ctesiphon, in Mesopotamia, right?

 

[Miles Teg]

Uh. You do know that the most significant capital of pre-Islamic Persia prior to the invasion was Ctesiphon, in Mesopotamia, right?

Uh. You do know the Persians didn't get that peacefully, they got it by chopping the local kings into small pieces and doing the same to the populace.

I realized that Southeast Asia has always been the economic and cultural battleground for India and China, hence the need for them to put up a united front in order to have any bargaining power viz-a-viz these 2 giants.

Fair enough then. I'm having bad images of China and India copying Russia and Germany in dealing with Poland though.

 

[Guangxi]

It doesn't matter, That hatred goes back to the Persians sacking Babylon, I'm starting to think that the hatred has sunk deep enough that two rabbits from their respective countries would fight

i have nothing against the scandinavians, yet the vikings plundered ireland a far shorter time ago than when the persians invaded babylonia. would an iraqi really hold something against a iranian for something that happened thousands of years ago?

 

[ParkCungHee]

If you look at my map and read my explanation you'll see that I agree to them having complete self-determination over their domestic affairs. I just hate to see them split off now, in the current state of the world (and of China).

Sure, if you would agree to China becoming a part of the USA, but with "complete self-determination over their domestic affairs".

 

[Miles Teg]

i have nothing against the scandinavians, yet the vikings plundered ireland a far shorter time ago than when the persians invaded babylonia. would an iraqi really hold something against a iranian for something that happened thousands of years ago?

Oh you do, you just don't know it. On a more serious note, the Irish never really got the idea of Vikings as foreign, it's difficult to hate something that you can't think of as other.