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Refugees.

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Multi-Team Demogame' started by classical_hero, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Admiral Kutzov

    Admiral Kutzov Idiot Emeritus

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    Standard disclaimer; I speak for igor only

    based on where we are now, any refugees aren't going to have much spoiler info so I'm not too worried about it

    igor's concern is that the PM's will be flying to the old team members to screw the new team. thus the previously posted modest proposal
     
  2. Daghdha

    Daghdha Absent Minded

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    Now that we all are discussing this matter within our teams' fora, it is important to be clear about how the desired rules should be applied. Are we discussing the general ruleset or is this about each team's preferences?
     
  3. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

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    Well, there's this rule that we have now, so if anyone wants to propose a change, this would be the most opportune time to do so.
     
  4. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    with both KISS and the nutters about to meet their makers probably about time this thread was bumped back up...
     
  5. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    Hows about refugees have to wait 25 turns after elimination to start posting so any information would be irrelavent?
     
  6. General_W

    General_W Councilor & Merlot Noble

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    Well – here's my take…

    The main reason we're all playing this game is to have fun. Not that we aren't serious about winning – it's just that winning is more fun than losing.

    Whatever is decided, I would like to see it oriented towards being the most fun for the defeated team.

    We've enjoyed a very clean game with everyone behaving honestly and honorably (afaik). The only problems that have occurred were legitimate mistakes and handled promptly and ethically – and often with self-policing.
    It has been a real pleasure playing with such a great group of people.

    I would like to see any defeated team members treated in that spirit.
    What does that mean specifically? Only that I'd like to see more focus on what will be fun for the vanquished than on what follows the letter of our MTDG law.

    I like our rules – but realistically – I'm not sure that any teams on the verge of defeat have a tremendous amount of spoiler information anyway. Information about relationships… sure. But I don't see why that wouldn't be fair game for discussion anyway. It would be perfectly legal for a losing team to broadcast all their dirt on every team the turn before they die… why is it suddenly illegal for them to talk about it the turn after their last city is gone?
    I don't think a losing team should be able to bring screenshots or copies of maps with them to a new team – which is stuff they couldn't legally send to anyone right now either. But if it's all right for them to talk about it now – I think any refugees should be able to carry on with their new team.

    If an action would give one team an "unfair" advantage over another team… it should be illegal. If it would be illegal for a team to do while playing – it should continue to be illegal after they've been defeated.
    Otherwise – I say give each former team member the freedom to do what they think will be the most fun.

    Just my opinion – not speaking officially for MIA in any way.
     
  7. Ginger_Ale

    Ginger_Ale Lurker Retired Moderator

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    You do make a good point, General_W...I guess I agree with the part that refugees can share the information they have as long as it fits under the rules (no maps until possible, whatever), but definately the goal of refugees is to find them a new team first, and then deal with what they can and cannot say. People have good judgement.
     
  8. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    Let them go where ever they want.
     
  9. fe3333au

    fe3333au Deity

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    I would also 'lock' the vanquished team's forum until the end of the game ...

    All 'legal' intel should come from player recollection ... no refreshing of memory should be possible ... that way a refugee will not be tempted to look through the filing cabinet from turns ago to get information about other teams or where barbarians or luxuries are situated.

    Reason I mention the two examples ... a discussion maybe about where to send a scout ... I would think ... "up north is dangerous but ultimately rewarding" or some other such general comment would be acceptible.

    It would be too hard to police topics where a refugee could not input ... they just have to remember to be general about locations and other 'illegal' topics ... however, they would have to know who their friends were and which teams they trusted and who used military tactics that worked ... just be vague about specific numbers of units

    eg.
    Allowed ... They took a city with XX and alot of YY
    Not Allowed ... They had 3 regular XX and 1 elite, supported by 11 x YY
     
  10. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    I'm fine with whatever you want. I'd rather not ask Thunderfall's time to close/lock/open fora though.

    The teams have little knowledge that other teams do not already have or will -legally- know soon. I see no problem with chosing a new team for eliminated team-members. I can understand why specific teams do not want specific members on their teams and as long as they make it clear to me and the game-admins why that is I think that can be accomplished. However, once someone is accepted in the teams; elitism and different rights/duties is something that I don't like...
     
  11. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    Well the vanquishing team could get the pick of the players? then the others could be assorted randomly, tbh im not sure
     
  12. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Ive felt the vanquished team members should get to choose where they go.
     
  13. Whomp

    Whomp Keep Calm and Carry On Retired Moderator

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    I have no problem with refugees joining any team but I do have concerns over what refugees can and can not say to their new team members.

    There's bound to be some hard feelings and I think the refugees should not be able to speak about out of game activities or their prior lands for a certain number of turns like vind suggested. There is information that each team has that could be very valuable if given to a team that doesn't have this knowledge.
    IE diplo views, city locations and its infrastructure, resource acquistion, luxs, rivers, chops, troop levels etc.

    I'd say it's fine for a refugee to make suggestions in game regarding mm'ing, builds etc. but I have reservations about anything else. If the other activities are not limited then recruiting refugees becomes important for their knowledge.
     
  14. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    thing about saying refugees giving out information once they become one. Well team members could give out that information prior to being defeated. Plus there is only so much people know about other teams that it really isnt that important, imo anyways.
     
  15. Sir Bugsy

    Sir Bugsy Civ.D.

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    I'm with BCLG. You can't control what information is given out. In RL, if you were a refugee, you would tell your new friends everything you remembered. The same thing works here.
     
  16. lost_civantares

    lost_civantares [Insert Title]

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    Something also to think about is the fact that those who were active in the old team's forum, could very well be active in the teams that they go to afterwards. This could be very nice for some of the teams where only 5 or so people are actually taking an active part in, haveing more members to take some of the burden that have proved themselves already to be active could be quite nice and bring some of the fun back to those who are overworked. I don't know the activity rate in the other teams, but at least from TNT's forum and refrences by other teams, this could be good if we work out the specifics (Where I would say Memory alone, with disableing access to old team Forum, which would be something that Regent_Man and Ginger_Ale could do, right? This would make it so that there was no gray area that there would be unless we went with the "Angel" idea mentioned a while ago).
     
  17. RegentMan

    RegentMan Deity

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    Here is what the ruleset currently says about defeated teams:
    Ginger_Ale nor I have the power to do anything with a team's forum; only Thunderfall could do that. I personally think that the closing of the conquered team's forum and allowing members to say what they remember is a good idea. However, cutting off access to their native forum will get in the way of going down memory lane/remembering the good ol' days.
     
  18. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    just leave the forum open, even if a team can see it what benefeits is it really going to have?
     
  19. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    I guess someone could transfer information to another memeber in an other team. EX I am on team A you are on team A. Team A gets eliminated. I join team B you join team C. Team B attacks team C, in team A's forum i could get information from you about team C.
     
  20. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    But there isnt really that much extra that people from one team know about the other that the team doesnt already know.
     

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