Refugees.

[Admiral Kutzov]

If teams have not yet discussed how to integrate refugees, I urge them to do so. Until this thread popped up I didn't realize that we were unique in having a well-defined system for integration. If anyone would like to work off our guidelines, I'm sure the Game Administrators could give the inquiring team a push in the right direction.

Standard Disclaimer: I speak for me and no one else.

Standard disclaimer; I speak for igor only

based on where we are now, any refugees aren't going to have much spoiler info so I'm not too worried about it

igor's concern is that the PM's will be flying to the old team members to screw the new team. thus the previously posted modest proposal

 

[Daghdha]

Now that we all are discussing this matter within our teams' fora, it is important to be clear about how the desired rules should be applied. Are we discussing the general ruleset or is this about each team's preferences?

​

 

[RegentMan]

Well, there's this rule that we have now, so if anyone wants to propose a change, this would be the most opportune time to do so.

 

[BCLG100]

with both KISS and the nutters about to meet their makers probably about time this thread was bumped back up...

 

[Vind2]

Hows about refugees have to wait 25 turns after elimination to start posting so any information would be irrelavent?

 

[General_W]

Well – here's my take…

The main reason we're all playing this game is to have fun. Not that we aren't serious about winning – it's just that winning is more fun than losing.

Whatever is decided, I would like to see it oriented towards being the most fun for the defeated team.

We've enjoyed a very clean game with everyone behaving honestly and honorably (afaik). The only problems that have occurred were legitimate mistakes and handled promptly and ethically – and often with self-policing.
It has been a real pleasure playing with such a great group of people.

I would like to see any defeated team members treated in that spirit.
What does that mean specifically? Only that I'd like to see more focus on what will be fun for the vanquished than on what follows the letter of our MTDG law.

I like our rules – but realistically – I'm not sure that any teams on the verge of defeat have a tremendous amount of spoiler information anyway. Information about relationships… sure. But I don't see why that wouldn't be fair game for discussion anyway. It would be perfectly legal for a losing team to broadcast all their dirt on every team the turn before they die… why is it suddenly illegal for them to talk about it the turn after their last city is gone?
I don't think a losing team should be able to bring screenshots or copies of maps with them to a new team – which is stuff they couldn't legally send to anyone right now either. But if it's all right for them to talk about it now – I think any refugees should be able to carry on with their new team.

If an action would give one team an "unfair" advantage over another team… it should be illegal. If it would be illegal for a team to do while playing – it should continue to be illegal after they've been defeated.
Otherwise – I say give each former team member the freedom to do what they think will be the most fun.

Just my opinion – not speaking officially for MIA in any way.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

You do make a good point, General_W...I guess I agree with the part that refugees can share the information they have as long as it fits under the rules (no maps until possible, whatever), but definately the goal of refugees is to find them a new team first, and then deal with what they can and cannot say. People have good judgement.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Let them go where ever they want.

 

[fe3333au]

I would also 'lock' the vanquished team's forum until the end of the game ...

All 'legal' intel should come from player recollection ... no refreshing of memory should be possible ... that way a refugee will not be tempted to look through the filing cabinet from turns ago to get information about other teams or where barbarians or luxuries are situated.

Reason I mention the two examples ... a discussion maybe about where to send a scout ... I would think ... "up north is dangerous but ultimately rewarding" or some other such general comment would be acceptible.

It would be too hard to police topics where a refugee could not input ... they just have to remember to be general about locations and other 'illegal' topics ... however, they would have to know who their friends were and which teams they trusted and who used military tactics that worked ... just be vague about specific numbers of units

eg.
Allowed ... They took a city with XX and alot of YY
Not Allowed ... They had 3 regular XX and 1 elite, supported by 11 x YY

 

[Rik Meleet]

I'm fine with whatever you want. I'd rather not ask Thunderfall's time to close/lock/open fora though.

The teams have little knowledge that other teams do not already have or will -legally- know soon. I see no problem with chosing a new team for eliminated team-members. I can understand why specific teams do not want specific members on their teams and as long as they make it clear to me and the game-admins why that is I think that can be accomplished. However, once someone is accepted in the teams; elitism and different rights/duties is something that I don't like...

 

[BCLG100]

Well the vanquishing team could get the pick of the players? then the others could be assorted randomly, tbh im not sure

 

[azzaman333]

Ive felt the vanquished team members should get to choose where they go.

 

[Whomp]

I have no problem with refugees joining any team but I do have concerns over what refugees can and can not say to their new team members.

There's bound to be some hard feelings and I think the refugees should not be able to speak about out of game activities or their prior lands for a certain number of turns like vind suggested. There is information that each team has that could be very valuable if given to a team that doesn't have this knowledge.
IE diplo views, city locations and its infrastructure, resource acquistion, luxs, rivers, chops, troop levels etc.

I'd say it's fine for a refugee to make suggestions in game regarding mm'ing, builds etc. but I have reservations about anything else. If the other activities are not limited then recruiting refugees becomes important for their knowledge.

 

[BCLG100]

thing about saying refugees giving out information once they become one. Well team members could give out that information prior to being defeated. Plus there is only so much people know about other teams that it really isnt that important, imo anyways.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I'm with BCLG. You can't control what information is given out. In RL, if you were a refugee, you would tell your new friends everything you remembered. The same thing works here.

 

[lost_civantares]

Something also to think about is the fact that those who were active in the old team's forum, could very well be active in the teams that they go to afterwards. This could be very nice for some of the teams where only 5 or so people are actually taking an active part in, haveing more members to take some of the burden that have proved themselves already to be active could be quite nice and bring some of the fun back to those who are overworked. I don't know the activity rate in the other teams, but at least from TNT's forum and refrences by other teams, this could be good if we work out the specifics (Where I would say Memory alone, with disableing access to old team Forum, which would be something that Regent_Man and Ginger_Ale could do, right? This would make it so that there was no gray area that there would be unless we went with the "Angel" idea mentioned a while ago).

 

[RegentMan]

Here is what the ruleset currently says about defeated teams:

0.3 - Team Switching

0.3.1 - Membership retention after Defeat

Description: Members of teams that were defeated in the current game are allowed to join the team that conquered them, if the team will have them. They may also join neighboring teams that they had contact with at the time of their defeat.

Definition: Neighboring does not mean specifically teams adjacent to them in game, more specifically it means teams they would have had the capability to travel to with their current technology.


Verdict: Switching teams is allowed if your team is out.

0.3.2 - Refugees

Description: Upon becoming a refugee according to rule 0.3.1, refugees may join another team provided that their team had in-game contact with the team they wish to join or the team they wish to join has/had in-game contact with at least two teams that had in-game contact with the eliminated team.

0.3.3 - Spoiler Info

Description: Upon joining a new team, you are not allowed to give out spoiler info to your new team that the new team you are on would not know about if you had not joined. If you have to give out spoiler info to prove your case, then do not post / vote in the thread.

Ginger_Ale nor I have the power to do anything with a team's forum; only Thunderfall could do that. I personally think that the closing of the conquered team's forum and allowing members to say what they remember is a good idea. However, cutting off access to their native forum will get in the way of going down memory lane/remembering the good ol' days.

 

[BCLG100]

just leave the forum open, even if a team can see it what benefeits is it really going to have?

 

[Vind2]

I guess someone could transfer information to another memeber in an other team. EX I am on team A you are on team A. Team A gets eliminated. I join team B you join team C. Team B attacks team C, in team A's forum i could get information from you about team C.

 

[BCLG100]

But there isnt really that much extra that people from one team know about the other that the team doesnt already know.