Reintroducing 1 unit-per-tile

[dbkblk]

I have rewritten most of the xUPT code and i can't see how this could be possible now.

Now, if you set to 1UPT, you can:
- Place 4 land/sea military units, 4 air military units and 4 civilian units on a city tile (configurable via xml).
- Place 1 land military unit, 1 air military unit and 1 civilian unit on a non-city tile (civilian limit is configurable via xml and can be uncapped).
- Place 1 military ship and 1 civilian ship on a non-city tile.
- If you produce an unit on a saturated city, it will be pushed in a free tile in the working city area, on the same continent.
- Your city production will be canceled if the unit cannot be "pushed" in the working area (checks on military land and air and civilian units, not on ships, assuming there will always be space to put a ship). The production points are preserved.
- The AI won't try to produce units if it can't place it.

It has nothing to do with the era.

 

[<Nexus>]

IMO air unit should have no UPT limits, since they are already controlled by air capacity tag, on cities and ships both. Helicopters could be together with land units simply.

 

[Arakhor]

Wow, that actually sounds like it works.

 

[dbkblk]

IMO air unit should have no UPT limits, since they are already controlled by air capacity tag, on cities and ships both. Helicopters could be together with land units simply.

The air capacity control only airports in cities, right ? I can disable the air limit on cities but keep it on other tiles. However, i don't think that is a good idea because if a player want to play at 1UPT, planes should also be limited. The xUPT limit is independant from the infrastructure limit, so the lower will limit the number.

 

[<Nexus>]

The air capacity control only airports in cities, right ? I can disable the air limit on cities but keep it on other tiles. However, i don't think that is a good idea because if a player want to play at 1UPT, planes should also be limited. The xUPT limit is independant from the infrastructure limit, so the lower will limit the number.

I dunno. Having a 1UPT for airplanes would greatly alter Carriers too.
On what condition are air units (planes) not limited? In cities and on ships they have a limit. I don't know about forts.

EDIT:
That reminds me of the Limited Re-base (or something like that) option.
That option sets re-base range to a certain number of range, independently of a units own range.
Do you think it would be possible to add some range depending options?
Like:

• re-base range is equal to unit's range
• re-base range is double of unit's range
• re-base range is 5 times of unit's range

 

[dbkblk]

I dunno. Having a 1UPT for airplanes would greatly alter Carriers too.

That is not incompatible, i can make a special limit for carriers. The only condition is that carriers full of planes cannot enter into cities full of planes, but can accept any planes once in a water tile.

If the tile limit is higher than the current limitation, the last one will do the rest.

Do you think it would be possible to add some range depending options?

I don't know, what is the current limitation ?

 

[<Nexus>]

That is not incompatible, i can make a special limit for carriers. The only condition is that carriers full of planes cannot enter into cities full of planes, but can accept any planes once in a water tile.

If the tile limit is higher than the current limitation, the last one will do the rest.

What I tried to say is that I don't think that planes need UPT limit at all, since they are already limitid by other features.
I think of planes on Carriers as "modular weapons" and not as independent units.

I don't know, what is the current limitation ?

No, no. I think of something else:
Currently (without this option) a plane can re-base anywhere in your civ, regardless of its range.
With Set Re-base Range all aircrafts can re-base within the set range. E.g. 10tiles for both the 4range Biplane and the 24range Orbital fighter.
What i think would be nicer is to set re-base range to "Double of unit range". That would be 8tiles for the 4range Biplane and 48tiles for the 24range Orbital fighter.
(I hope I can express myself clear enough.)

EDIT:
But it is really not an important thing though.

 

[dbkblk]

What I tried to say is that I don't think that planes need UPT limit at all, since they are already limitid by other features.

For now, i took the approach to have xUPT per unit type. There are four unit types (military land, military naval, military air and civilian). This is fully compatible with the AI (my previous approach with land/naval sharing the same limitation on cities cause emancipation problems for AI and wasn't so logical as naval units cannot defend a city).
For the special use case of carrier or embarkment, i have removed the limitation, so you can put any unit a naval unit can load.

What i think would be nicer is to set re-base range to "Double of unit range". That would be 8tiles for the 4range Biplane and 48tiles for the 24range Orbital fighter.

That is a good idea that i can implement, but i'll wait for the team opinion before to do it.

 

[Noyyau]

If you use the BUG option to limit rebase range (which I do), then when you discover Supersonic flight that limitation disappears (and it says so in the tooltip for the option when you hover over it in the BUG menu).

Granted it's been a while since I reached that point, but in the past it worked like that.


Though having rebase range based on the actual range of the air unit also makes sense. Would be nice if it also would take into account range increases from techs and promotions.

 

[nionios]

I have rewritten most of the xUPT code and i can't see how this could be possible now.

It has nothing to do with the era.

I had read about that in another thread last year and iirc i had experienced that in my game.I'm glad to hear that it's now been fixed.
Good work dbkblk!

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I don't think we need to change rebase range. It still works as Noyyau described. Also I'm all against limiting air units per tile in a different way as it is now, especially making carrier based planes counting as air units in the city: there could be multiple carriers based in a coastal city and that shouldn't count toward city limit, exactly as it is now. But you shouldn't be able to disembark air units in a full city (full for air capacity): I think it already works like this.

 

[dbkblk]

Also I'm all against limiting air units per tile in a different way as it is now, especially making carrier based planes counting as air units in the city

I'll try to make what i can because i have a hard understanding the unloading code. In a sense, you all want to make cargos in naval units not account in the unit limitation ? To me, that sounds like an exploit because you can mass more units than the xUPT limit in the city but if everyone thinks that way, i'll try to improve that. EDIT: Note that if you use a 10UPT limitation, that means you can have 40 planes in the city, so the infrastructure limitation (airports, carriers, etc.) will limit the number. Are we really talking about a problem ?

But you shouldn't be able to disembark air units in a full city (full for air capacity): I think it already works like this.

No it doesn't, at least, not from what i've understood. There was an exploit where you can get over the limit by embarking units and disembarking in the city.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I'll try to make what i can because i have a hard understanding the unloading code. In a sense, you all want to make cargos in naval units not account in the unit limitation ? To me, that sounds like an exploit because you can mass more units than the xUPT limit in the city but if everyone thinks that way, i'll try to improve that. EDIT: Note that if you use a 10UPT limitation, that means you can have 40 planes in the city, so the infrastructure limitation (airports, carriers, etc.) will limit the number. Are we really talking about a problem ?


No it doesn't, at least, not from what i've understood. There was an exploit where you can get over the limit by embarking units and disembarking in the city.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't disembark land units if city was already at its limit. I admit I don't recall about embarked air units, but I'll try and see.

 

[dbkblk]

I admit I don't recall about embarked air units, but I'll try and see.

Hm. I've just understood what you said now. Yes, the inherent limit of xUPT is indeed not applied but the air capacity limit IS. So i'll just remove parts of the code that affect xUPT air limitation and we should be good to go!

 

[dbkblk]

Question: Should i make xUPT as a start option instead of a BUG option ? It will be more visible, and also won't be changed during a game (a reduction of the limit could distribute the units over tiles, and kill them if it can't).

EDIT: Is this possible to have a drop down menu in the start options ?

 

[<Nexus>]

Question: Should i make xUPT as a start option instead of a BUG option ? It will be more visible, and also won't be changed during a game (a reduction of the limit could distribute the units over tiles, and kill them if it can't).

EDIT: Is this possible to have a drop down menu in the start options ?

I think it is better in the BUG menu, so one may try this option and find the "right" value for himself within a single game. Restarting a game only because you have miss selected an option is a pain in the back.

I don't think we need to change rebase range. It still works as Noyyau described.

I didn't mean to replace the existing option, but to expand it with more options in the drop down menu. Currently I don't use it because I feel I have to change it at least twice an era to make sense.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I also think this option belongs more to BUG options than to starting options.

 

[dbkblk]

Ok. That is easier to do, as i have nothing more to do

 

[Noyyau]

Yeah I also think it should be left as a BUG option.

I did try it a few times, and it would be problematic if it were set at game start.

 

[dbkblk]

As a side-effect of xUPT, what do you think of setting the siege units (except rams) to a bombardment range of 2 ?