Reinventing the wheel

Great ideas.

Got me thinking. Since all the civs at one point in history had one or more "Golden age(s)".

Why not give all civs some special unique benefits when they enter a golden age, some bonus that reflected the time when they "shined"!
 
Though I don't agree with all the changes you're suggesting, there are some genuinely fantastic ideas here. I do tend to agree that too many Vanilla Civs missed out on a redesign when G&K came out.

Aussie.
 
I really like these ideas, especially Songhai's and Egypt's new U-everything. Just one thing, the Russian streltsy should be strelets, if you want the unit to be singular and not plural.

Ha, thanks! Russian: not my strong suit.

I'm curious if adding in alternative unique for each civ would be good for a potential third expansion. 1 new UA and 2 new unique others which could all be swapped to form up to 8 different combos per civ. I'm not sure if I like that better than adding a third unique to all civs, but it'd be pretty cool and really get the forums speculating.

I was thinking that too, or something like it. Adding new leaders, each with their own UAs, UUs, etc. would be a nice way to keep introducing variant gameplay to Civ V without having to strain to find new civs to include (not that there aren't a few very worthy candidates left). There are some civs—Arabia, China, England, France, Germany, India, the Ottomans, Persia, and Russia come to my mind—that you could reinvent five times over and still keep coming up with fun ways to represent them.

True that the leaderheads are a lot of work for not so much reward, but if a new expansion was going to have nine new civs with new leaders anyway, why not throw nine variant leaders at nine vanilla civs instead?

Pick a pre-made civilization or creat your own once your'e in the game, and can see what the starting area looks like. I'm a believer that historical civilizations were shaped as much by their interactions with their neighbors (war, trade, scientific and cultural exchange) as they were by their environment. The environment largely dictates what options a civilization has available to them, and thus greatly effects how that civilization develops.

Ahh, if only I had a few millions dollars lying around…

I love the Civ games for what they are, of course (I wouldn't be here if I didn't), but part of me would love to play a similar game with no deterministic aspects at all. No idea how you'd create a free-form tech tree or anything like that, and surely combat would be a balance nightmare, but it'd be amazing to have a civ that was completely shaped by its environment and history, almost more of a world-history simulator than a game.

The pantheon beliefs in G&K are actually one of my favorite little additions to the series for that reason—you react to your environment and it shapes your identity a little. Would be cool if it were a more enduring, influential thing, although it's neat that it provides the foundation of your eventual major religion.
 
Though I don't agree with all the changes you're suggesting, there are some genuinely fantastic ideas here. I do tend to agree that too many Vanilla Civs missed out on a redesign when G&K came out.

Aussie.

I don't think a redesign of the Vanilla civs was on the cards during G&K development. Remember that they spend ages after the initial release just balancing the game, they just didn't have time for that. The only thing they did was add a Spy to England. Now that they have had time after G&K to look at things in a fairly well-balanced environment, they can rebalance civs and spread some of the new content introduced in the expansions and DLC to the older civs.
 
I don't think a redesign of the Vanilla civs was on the cards during G&K development. Remember that they spend ages after the initial release just balancing the game, they just didn't have time for that. The only thing they did was add a Spy to England. Now that they have had time after G&K to look at things in a fairly well-balanced environment, they can rebalance civs and spread some of the new content introduced in the expansions and DLC to the older civs.

I don't imagine it's all that difficult to modify existing UAs and keep them relatively balanced, especially considering that the current civs, as they are, aren't necessarily well balanced anyway. There are certain, readily identifiable civs that are better than average, and certain, readily identifiable civs that are worse than average.
 
I don't imagine it's all that difficult to modify existing UAs and keep them relatively balanced, especially considering that the current civs, as they are, aren't necessarily well balanced anyway. There are certain, readily identifiable civs that are better than average, and certain, readily identifiable civs that are worse than average.

Yeah, I have high hopes for updated UAs. The DLC and G&K civs have such interesting, engaging UAs by comparison (Austria and Sweden in particular) that it'd be a shame not to get more creative takes on India, Germany, Russia, et al. Some of the vanilla UAs are so boring they may as well not be there.

I just looked at the link in your signature, by the way, and saw that you got to the idea of a 2 :c5science: per 3 :c5citizen: Library and the German horse artillery before me. Great minds think alike, right?
 
Ottoman UA is interesting and naming it "Enderun" or "Devşirme" would be better i guess. And I thnik it would be better to give bonuses for cities puppeted and annexed to represent that these men mostly came from conqured lands.
but here's a different proposal for Ottomans
UA: Tanzimat: Get a %20 bonus on :c5science: for technologies other two other civilizations have found.
UB: Kervansaray: (replaces market) some extra bonus to trade (I am not specific on this because of uncertanity of trade system)
UU: Sipahi (replaces knight): Slightly cheaper and no maintenance during peace
 
I have no intention of hijacking this thread, so I'll just post a sampling here... in any case, I'm not finished. I'll probably post the entire thing to the Ideas and Suggestions forum and link it in my signature when it's ready, so stay tuned if you like what you read... I reckon there's more to come, as I plan on reworking many of the civs currently out.

A preamble to my design philosophy - a civilization's unique aspects ought to synchronize with one another and offer a readily apparent departure in terms of gameplay from other civilizations (either through highly divergent playstyle or through a unique mechanic... or both). To that end, I am a proponent of designing unique aspects that are more powerful, on average, than what Firaxis has produced. I'm also a proponent of promoting particular playstyles for each civ through strong incentives. In the following example, for instance, a player is rewarded, and therefore will be more likely, to press the attack even at the risk or certainty of losing a military unit.

(Don't skip out on the explanation!)

Japan
Bushido: Units fight as though they were at full strength, even when wounded. Receive :c5culture: Culture when you lose a military unit to an enemy.

Samurai: replaces Longswordsman, 135 :c5production:, 21 :c5strength:, 10 :c5rangedstrength:, 2 :c5moves: Movement, requires Iron.

Slightly more expensive to build. Receives a 10% bonus when attacking. May not ranged attack; when attacked by a ranged attack, the Samurai reciprocates with a volley of its own to the source of the ranged attack.

Zero: replaces Fighter, 300 :c5production:, 45 :c5rangedstrength:, 8 Range, requires Oil.

Cheaper to build than the standard Fighter, the Zero also has the ability to destroy itself on enemy military units, which deals 33 damage. Destroying the Zero in this way qualifies it for the Culture from Bushido.

Explanation & Clarification

Explanation
Spoiler :

Unique Ability
"Bushido is realized in the presence of death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. There is no other reasoning." -Yamamoto Tsunetomo

I believe my modification to Japan’s base Bushido UA introduces several facets to Japan, making Japan more nuanced and better reflective, historically and culturally, of its real-life counterpart. By simply adding in a :c5culture: Culture boost on the death of each military unit, I’ve roughly symbolized each of the following:

Seppuku - A unit's defeat could be seen as the leader's suicide, so as to maintain his honor. The resultant boost to culture is appropriate.

Shintoism – By no means the main aspect of Shintoism, Japan’s pre-Buddhist belief system (incidentally still strong in modern Japan, as it fused with, rather than be supplanted by, Buddhism, creating Shinto-Buddhism; a similar case can be found in the fusion of Mexican indigenous beliefs with Roman Catholicism) does exhibit ancestor worship. Dead military units ought to carry some sort of cultural bonus.

Isolationism – Japan was remarkably resistant to outside influence, maintaining a policy of isolationism for much of its history. This period of isolationism ended around the 1850s when American Naval Officer, Commodore Matthew Perry, demanded that Japan open itself to Western trade. The bonus from dead military units can help represent the self-imposed cultural insulation that Japan adopted. With the way that culture defends against tourism in BNW, this would be highly appropriate.

Banzai Charges and Kamikazes – WWII saw a resurgence in Japanese nationalism, and a revitalization of Samurai with a healthy dose of Romanticism. Japanese soldiers, seamen, and pilots alike embraced the ideal of Bushido, including the willingness to die in combat. Death in combat by Japanese soldiers, and Kamikaze attacks by Japanese planes, would replicate both of these, and the player would choose to practice both because of the incentive that the Cultural bonus offers.

Overall, the idea of Bushido is strongly reinforced because the player is given an incentive to use his military units in a way that demands him to press the attack instead of retreat, better reflecting the nature of Japanese mentality in warfare.

Samurai Unique Unit
The Samurai, as it currently stands, is a lackluster unit. It simply receives some relatively boring promotions that are only somewhat appropriate. Not only that, but the Samurai is only represented as using a Katana.

While some people, even on these forums, deride the use of the Katana and question its relevance to the Samurai, I’ll do no such thing. Not only is the Katana emblematic to Western audiences, but it was legitimately used by the Samurai and it ought to be represented if only for the mere sake of its exceptional quality, the Japanese having discovered the secret of folding high-carbon steel to produce swords of unsurpassed quality and craftsmanship.

What is absolutely, and regretfully, ignored by Firaxis is that the Samurai were arguably better archers than anything else. The use of the bow and arrow by the Samurai has a much longer history than the use of the Katana.

While giving the Samurai the ability to ranged attack is OP and would confuse their promotion path, the ability for the Samurai to respond to a ranged attack is both unique and a way to showcase the versatility of a Samurai warrior.

I also thought to give the Samurai a modest bonus on attack, to give a player further incentive to hurl his Samurai at the enemy.

Taken all together, the Samurai is transformed from a lackluster unit to a dominating presence on the battlefield: dangerous to any unit that attacks it, always attacks at 110% of its strength, regardless of its condition, and a :c5culture: culture insurance policy if you lose one in combat.

Zero Unique Unit
The Zero is terrible as is, let’s be honest. Fighters are rarely used, especially by the AI, so a fighter with a bonus against other fighters is almost not worth building. This is a shame with any UU. I took away the combat bonus, as I felt like it wasn’t doing anyone any favors. Instead, I made it cheaper to build, so you can pump them out en masse. You also have the option to sacrifice them to cause significant damage against an enemy unit, independent of the Autocracy Tenet, Kamikaze. This attack inflicts 33 HP loss regardless of the Zero’s state, and regardless of the enemy that it is attacking. Optimal when a Zero is already damaged… hurl it at the enemy! Though you lose the unit, this is an incredibly powerful attack that should not be underestimated. Bushido’s bonus does apply here.


Clarification
-Samurai ranged attack defense/reciprocation is lost on upgrade; the attack bonus is not. As for the ranged attack, please note that the Samurai is incapable of targeting a unit for a ranged attack and is ineligible from receiving ranged attack promotions. The Samurai unit merely responds to ranged attacks made upon it, similar to how all units respond when attacked by a melee attack.

-Culture gained at the death of a unit is calculated through half the unit’s :c5strength: Combat or :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Combat strength, rounded up. A Samurai would yield 11 :c5culture: Culture, and a Zero would yield 23 :c5culture: Culture. Receive one more additional point for each promotion the unit possessed.

-Culture is only gained through death in combat at the hands of another civ. Death through military units, bombs, or city attacks all count, so long as they belonged to another player. Deletion of units also does not count.

-The Zero’s Kamikaze attack cannot drop an enemy unit beneath 1 health. The ability is used to wound and maim an enemy, not outright kill it.

That wraps it up. If you have praise, criticism, throught, or comment, let me know.
 
For India, I recently got this clever little idea that would make them a strong faith civ for a few reasons.

UA: Faiths Crossroads (could use a more Indian name IMO) gain 2 :c5faith: for every international trade route (1 for internal). Increases by 2 every era. 10% Growth in all cities. (would be 1+ for internal) (Increase ends once you hit industrial era, so 8 for international trade routes and 4 for internal trade routes.)

UB: Temple replacemt (Mandir?)(no idea for good name) 110 :c5production: instead of 100. Gives 3 :c5faith: and 1 :c5happy:.

UA: Sepoy: Riflemen Replacement. 34:c5strength: . However has a 20% foreign territory. Slightly increased heal rate (add 5. So 15 in not your lands, 25 in your lands, and 30 in cities.) (Same production cost)(Keeps promotions on upgrade)

My idea is to give India a great chance to get start on a pantheon with the UA by being able to get a start on faith by gaining a decent amount of faith at the start with trade routes with the faith that it provides, and gain more and more faith to represent India's culture of many faiths.

The temple represents the many types of temples built in India, so gives even more faith combined with happiness.

The Sepoy while used not as a "real" (in the sense not owned by India), Army, it is a distinct part of India's history of being a colony, which I think should be represented. The foreign lands boost represents how they were sent all over the world to fight in other wars during the time of Sepoy. The increase heal rate represents the Sepoy rebellions, showing how they lasted for a good bit even if they were up against the British Army.
 
Ottoman UA is interesting and naming it "Enderun" or "Devşirme" would be better i guess. And I thnik it would be better to give bonuses for cities puppeted and annexed to represent that these men mostly came from conqured lands.

I thought about that, but I don't really like the way it works with Civ V's systems—if you only get bonuses for puppeted/annexed cities, there's no incentive for you to build your own cities. I don't like the idea of the Ottomans as completely belligerent. Although I suppose their unique style could be playing as early warmongers and then transitioning into a more peaceful style, with bonuses related to the diversity of their conquered empire.

A preamble to my design philosophy - a civilization's unique aspects ought to synchronize with one another and offer a readily apparent departure in terms of gameplay from other civilizations (either through highly divergent playstyle or through a unique mechanic... or both). To that end, I am a proponent of designing unique aspects that are more powerful, on average, than what Firaxis has produced. I'm also a proponent of promoting particular playstyles for each civ through strong incentives.

Strongly agreed! And I like your idea for the Samurai (obviously, I liked your idea for Bushido quite a bit too). I'm not so sure about the Zero, though—to my mind, it's not really worth "fixing." I don't like any of the atomic era UUs (the B-17 is really good, sure, but how often do you get the chance to make full use of it?), and to be honest, if I had my way there wouldn't be any modern UUs either. Rifleman and Cavalry would probably be the last.

Why not go ahead and move the Samurai to the archery line (a more expensive, more powerful Longbowman) and add in an Ashigaru UU, either pikes or muskets?

Actually, one other thing to consider, something both you and I lost in redesigning the Samurai, is that promotions that carry over on upgrade, although they might be a little boring, do create a sense of continuity. The samurai tradition lives in on later units, as it lived on in the latter-day Japanese military in real life. It probably wouldn't do to have Samurai upgrading to Gatling Guns.

UA: Faiths Crossroads (could use a more Indian name IMO) gain 2 :c5faith: for every international trade route (1 for internal). Increases by 2 every era. 10% Growth in all cities. (would be 1+ for internal) (Increase ends once you hit industrial era, so 8 for international trade routes and 4 for internal trade routes.).

I like that UA, but does it really suit India, which was the birthplace of so many religions? I suppose Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Judaism did come to India from abroad, but I think this ability might suit somebody else better. Not sure who, though. Khazaria? Could be good for Rome, actually, if you wanted to make Rome faith-based for some reason.
 
I'm always disappointed when Roman Legions aren't godlike. They should just give Rome a bunch of worthless UA and UB and just give them an awesome UU.


Like swordsmen that are as strong as longswordsmen and only require .5 iron. Then a worthless UB and UA to ensure balance.
 
This would be, if nothing else, a really good mod with some balancing.

Ditto with each Civ having a unique GA bonus.
 
I like that UA, but does it really suit India, which was the birthplace of so many religions? I suppose Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Judaism did come to India from abroad, but I think this ability might suit somebody else better. Not sure who, though. Khazaria? Could be good for Rome, actually, if you wanted to make Rome faith-based for some reason.[/QUOTE]

The reason is not only because of faith, but aslo because India held host to many trade routes in the Indian Sea Trade Routes/Silk Road, which allowed for the many faiths to come in.
 
Re: India; UA that allows them to choose extra pantheon beliefs when forming/modifying their religion in place of (or in addition to?) normal founder, follower and enhancer beliefs. Would give them decent flavor (polytheism) and a different religious feel to their game. Communitas has a unique Aqueduct that grants +1 food on river tiles, which needless to say is pretty sweet.

Re: Ottomans; UA gives some bonus (+% yields or +1 local happiness?) per religion present in a city. Could be interesting wrt gameplay to try to actively spread as many religions in your empire as possible. Flavorful because of their uncommon religious tolerance.
 
The Arabia idea is really cool, especially since Arabia's UA is a little weak now. I do think they should be changed, but I think the new trade route mechanics should benefit them. Their UA is literally called Trade Caravans
 
I really like the mandate of heaven idea for China, but instead of 1000 years I think it should be more like 20 turns. Turns are easier for a player to plan for than years, and they are constant while years can really jump around
 
I like Egypt's UB idea, but I think the UA should be always instead of just during a Golden Age and maybe changed to flood plains instead of all rivers
 
I don't think England should have a faith based UA. They are more of a military civ, and the most significant religious time in England (Anglican Era) was more of a political movement
 
I've been pondering the DLC and G&K civs, and although I haven't figured out how I could rework all of them, I've come up with a couple good ideas. I liked this one for Sweden so much I figured I ought to share it.

Sweden
Runestones: All Swedish Melee and Mounted Units have the Erect Runestone ability, which grants :c5culture: Culture and :c5science: based on the Unit's accomplishments.

Väringar (replaces Swordsman): +1 :c5strength: Strength, +1 :c5moves: Movement. +20% :c5strength: combat bonus outside friendly territory. Rewards :c5gold: Gold and double :c5influence: Influence when gifted to a :c5citystate: City-State.
Mead Hall (replaces Barracks): +1 :c5happy: Happiness. Units built in this city earn XP 33% faster. No free XP for new Units.

So my runestone idea isn't quite historically accurate, but it's true enough that Norseman, particularly Swedes (Varangians), went out into the world, served as mercenaries (like the Byzantine Varangian Guard), founded kingdoms (like Kievan Rus'), and generally had wild adventures, saw amazing new things, tried to invade Persia, etc. In reality, they mostly died far from home and their families erected runestones in their memory, but I thought it'd be an awesome mechanic to have them come home and use the knowledge they'd gleaned abroad to advance Swedish culture and science.

Basically, each melee/mounted unit can, once in its lifetime, while standing on Swedish territory, convert both its combat XP and its non-combat experience (unexplored hexes uncovered, unmet civilizations contacted, natural wonders discovered) into a chunk of science and culture. I don't know what the exact formula would be. In fact, I'm not even sure the engine can track things like hexes uncovered on a per-unit basis. Still a cool idea, right? The Mead Hall gets everybody a little drunk and happy and makes it easier to rack up XP, but penalizes units at the start (I figure the Norsemen were more into on-the-job training than drills and exercises). The UU is our prototypical Varangian—fast and tough, deadly against foreign foes. You send him on an adventure, let him see the world, and then bring him back to Sweden to erect his runestone. Then you sell him off as a mercenary, collecting some CS influence and 100 gold per XP level in the process, and build a new Väringar to start the process all over.
 
Denmark

UA: Sons of Odin (or whatever Viking cliche you fancy). +25% base unit support. All melee naval units start with Logistics promotion.

UU: Longship. Trireme replacement. +2 movement, +10% strength.

UB: Danevirke. Wall replacement. +2 culture.

So the basic idea here is for a relatively small early game civ that can field a disproportionately large army. The Longship with a Logistics promotion should be a specialised city raider - able to escape after raiding for gold, but the promotion should make Denmark a pretty strong naval power into the late game. The Danevirke, which effectively kept the Franks and then the Germans at bay, helped define the modern cultural borders of Danes and Germans. In game terms, you can go off raiding while a light garrison holds cities, generating culture.
 
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