[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[Gomer_Pyle]

Hurray! Just so excited about this project.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Team:

I will do a new Balancing (XML) for Religion and Revolution in the next days if you all agree.
(As I said, I do not agree with many aspects of TAC 2.02d Balancing.)

Actually I had intended to wait a little longer for this, because I had wanted to collect more feedback.

But as I see, there are already many discussions starting and maybe it is better to do it now.

I will report / list all the Balancing changes I have done of course.

Please give me some time.

I am currently still trying to understand all AI changes koma has done.
I am still checking sources for bugs and will fix everything I find.
I have started implementing further features.
...

Last but not least I would also like to spend some private time with family these days.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Team:

New version of DLL available in SVN because of bugfix (Abandoning Cities).
(Including Sources.)

Edit:
I have currently stopped working on new features.
I will concentrate on bugfixing and new XML-balancing first.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Team:

I have reconsidered a little.

Before starting to change balancing (XML) I would like to wait a little and get some feedback first.
(Also TAC will probably make some changes in balancing of Leaderheads for example until TAC 2.03.)

I will still focus on fixing bugs, but I can't resist to continue coding some features.

--------------------------------------

I have implemented this:
(Checked into SVN.)

Founding Fathers become available again when Nation is eliminated
(No game option yet, but I will do that once the basic functionality has been approved.)

Just for explanation:

When a Nation is destroyed, the FFs of that Nation don't loose the displayed Nationality that have acquired them.
(That would have looked very strange.)

But it is possible, that another Nation will (re-)acquired that FF.
(Then the displayed Nationality of that FF will change to the new owner.)

Would really be great, if somebody could test that:

-> A savegame in late game (later than Round 100) is needed !
-> Look in FF-Advisor Screen for a Nation with many FFs. (Write these down.)
-> With Worlbuilder destroy that Nations Units, Ships and Buildings
-> Keep repeating that several rounds until you get the message, that this Nation is destroyed.
-> Continue klicking through the rounds (or playing) until you yourself get one of the FFs that had originially been acquired by the Civ now destroyed
or you get a message, that another Civ has acquired one of these.

Thanks in advance for testing.
(Problem is that a savegame in late game is required and I would rather focus on programming, than on playing / testing.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Hi everyone,

I've been away (again)

Would really be great, if somebody could test that:

-> A savegame in late game (later than Round 100) is needed !
-> Look in FF-Advisor Screen for a Nation with many FFs. (Write these down.)
-> With Worlbuilder destroy that Nations Units, Ships and Buildings
-> Keep repeating that several rounds until you get the message, that this Nation is destroyed.
-> Continue klicking through the rounds (or playing) until you yourself get one of the FFs that had originially been acquired by the Civ now destroyed
or you get a message, that another Civ has acquired one of these.

Thanks in advance for testing.
(Problem is that a savegame in late game is required and I would rather focus on programming, than on playing / testing.)

That's Ok with me ! I'll start testing now... Of course, I'll check for every bug possible.
I guess I'll try this:
- Difficulty: Conquistador
- Size: Normal (Large maps run slowly on my computer!)
- New France, Samuel de Champlain

Is that ok?

 

[raystuttgart]

Is that ok?

Yes, that is ok.

Thanks !

But please wait a little, I will be uploading a new Version of this Feature in about 15min.

It will be a Game-Option then.

Game-Option will be to use "Old Founding-Father System", meaning to deactivate this new mechanism.

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok, I have uploaded the new Version of the Feature to SVN.
DLL, XML and Sources have been updated !

@Robert:

You do not really have to test with the feature deactivated.
(I am sure, this will work.)

Interesting case is to test with the feature activated (which is default).

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Wait, so I have to try the old version ? OK...

Before I forget, I have two or three ideas I'd want to talk about (now or later on, I don't mind, I just don't want to forget to tell all of you!).
I've been talking to TAC team members about some of them. So it might be better to wait for their answer...

1) I'd like to change the trait mechanisms back. I'd like to have at least one nation related trait.
What do you think?
2) I'd like to add the famous Fountain of Youth (we would change the FF accordingly, I like Dale's version but with an Xml tag!)
3) I'd like slightly higher map prices.
4) Native prices should be rebalanced (we should talk about this later on on version 2 or 3, I guess)
5) Could we put back "Random Seed on Reload option"?
6) Could we re-balance Peter Stuyvesant diplomatic xml-tags?

I'll explain ass soon as possible...

 

[raystuttgart]

Wait, so I have to try the old version ? OK...

Just get the newest version from SVN and test it.
(Revision 36)

 

[raystuttgart]

5) Could we put back "Random Seed on Reload option"?

Already done.

 

[raystuttgart]

2) I'd like to add the famous Fountain of Youth (we would change the FF accordingly, I like Dale's version but with an Xml tag!)

A lot of players have complained about that feature !
It was too strong and totally destroying balance.

Please let us forget about that.

3) I'd like slightly higher map prices.

Please let us not do that.

Many players - like myself - play on gigantic maps.
You could never afford paying the price then.

4) Native prices should be rebalanced (we should talk about this later on on version 2 or 3, I guess)

I agree, but we should talk about that in Release 2, when we will do "Economy".

6) Could we re-balance Peter Stuyvesant diplomatic xml-tags?

Please explain more detailled.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

1) I'd like to change the trait mechanisms back. I'd like to have at least one nation related trait.
What do you think?

I like this idea very much. I feel the current setup makes traits too "personal" for each leader, without their particular nation having any influence.

 

[raystuttgart]

1) I'd like to change the trait mechanisms back. I'd like to have at least one nation related trait.
What do you think?

You and Androrc are right !

@Robert:
Would you like to do that ?
(For Release 1, whenever you have time.)

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

Revolution and Religion Suggestions after completing a game

I have been thinking long and hard about how things feel when I play the game in its current state. I have come up with a few suggestions that I want you all to think about. Check this list out and have a game. Use this list and see if it totally is wrong and explain why... Because I seriosly think that something needs to be done in the features I have listed below...

• Prevent the creation of Missionary if a church isn't present in the colony.

• Lower the aggressiveness of the King. Raise tax and demand gold too often. (Explorer)

• New Savannah graphics looks too bright green. (Unnatural Green)

• Have more Church Buildings. Colonial Meeting House, Chapel, Church, Cathedral?

• Possibility to change profession to Jesuit Missionary if Cathedral is present in the colony?

• Visual effect of attack and screen centered on every raid/attack. It looks like quick combat even though I havent got that turned on. Suddenly my army is lost and all I get is a message on top saying my Musketmen lost??? Seriously what is the problem with this?

• Lower the possibility of a raid if natives are cautious or better in relations to almost none.

• Lower the possibility of seasoned scout upgrade. Too fast upgrade, it is almost a cheat.

• Event Tweak: Reputation gain/loss towards the king - “King is the rightful owner of all treasures event”?

• Diplomacy Feature: Can threaten Natives to leave your units/treasures alone? Or leave your area of influence?

• Learn the AI to not necessary settle next to each other. Look for good places.

• Ship of the Line needs to be locked down with research until later in the game. Frigate is obsolete unless we do this.

• Why do all natives mostly need weapons and guns? They don't even know of them when you get too the new world in the first place. More dynamic system here?

• We need more ways of lowering Tax...

• Lower the chance of having Native Merc offered. Make them more rare.

• Just for the fun of it. What is wrong with Frigates? I loaded 10 times with random seed on and lost 10 times to a privateer? 80% chance of success. Are the Odds calculated correctly?

• For strategic purposes would it be great to be able to destroy a road with Hardy Pioneer. Techology?

• Have more information about who AI is friendly with and who they hate. More advanced Foreign Advisor. Something similar => LINK

• Bigger consequences when you are dealing with biggest enemies of another nation/friend. Example: You are having a pact with your neighbour's biggest enemy. Should be big relationship punishment towards you for dealing with your neighbours enemy. At least -5 in relationship punishment? Much more negative punishments for stabbing your friends in the back. Because that is just what you are doing...

• Need a way to prevent a settlement importing more items than needed just so it can sell it at Warehouse Expansion. Weapons/Tools/Horses is examples of such items.

• Need a way to choose what items Warehouse Expansion/Custom House should sell.

• Customhouse sell non blockaded wares at 80% of Europe price? And boycotted wares at 60%? And still pay tax? We need to do the math on this thing and see if we can tweak it. I hardly earn any cash in mid/late game because I am taxed to death. Smugglehouse?

• Information screen like in Col94 where you could see how much rebel sentiment each nation got and colonists ect. Not sure how it was solved in col94. Maybe some kind of spy feature.

• Big buildings like Cathedral, University and so on is too cheap to build.

• Event Tweak: Instead of having a random King offer his help first turn after Independence is declared why not have it like in Col94 when you will get a notification that if you can get 100000 liberty bells a random selected king except of course your own will come to your rescue. Maybe also offer a little bit more help? Seriously only one Man'o'War? This way you can also use Political/Military Points for something. This way you would have possiblity to produce something else than cannons too

• Learn By Doing Tweak: Why not tie Learn by doing up to what kind of educational building is in a settlement or maybe how many educational points is created in a settlement. If you are using learning by doing feature in town by a free colonists learning to be farmer. So if there is a schoolhouse it would be normal, a then Collage a bit faster and a University a lot faster?

• Ability to ask Natives to ask Natives to attack the King after Independence has begun. I dont seem to be able to get Natives to attack the King. Stirring up the natives vs King???

• Need to learn the King to gather/regroup his army at given location and use "stacks" to take down your fortifications before actually attacking. CIV4 AI can do this why not the King?

 

[raystuttgart]

• Prevent the creation of Missionary if a church isn't present in the colony.

Possible.
But what about Europe ? I make my colonists to Missionaries in Europe usually.
Don't think this will help a lot.
(But we could do it. )

• Lower the aggressiveness of the King. Raise tax and demand gold too often. (Explorer)

Agree.

• New Savannah graphics looks too bright green. (Unnatural Green)

I needs to be distinguishable to Grassland.
Actually I am happy with that color.

KJ and I had tried many different colourings.
That one was the best result.

• Have more Church Buildings. Colonial Meeting House, Chapel, Church, Cathedral?

Already on our list.
(When we will do "Economy" with all the new buildings - probably in Release 2.)

• Possibility to change profession to Jesuit Missionary if Cathedral is present in the colony?

Jesuit Missionary is no profession.
(It is simply the specialist in the profession Missionary.)

• Visual effect of attack and screen centered on every raid/attack. It looks like quick combat even though I havent got that turned on. Suddenly my army is lost and all I get is a message on top saying my Musketmen lost??? Seriously what is the problem with this?

I will take a look at that, when I have some time to do so, after our other features for Release 1 are implemented.

• Lower the possibility of a raid if natives are cautious or better in relations to almost none.

I will take a look at that, when I have some time to do so, after our other features for Release 1 are implemented.

• Lower the possibility of seasoned scout upgrade. Too fast upgrade, it is almost a cheat.

Don't like that one.

• Event Tweak: Reputation gain/loss towards the king - “King is the rightful owner of all treasures event”?

Don't understand what you are meaning exactly.

• Diplomacy Feature: Can threaten Natives to leave your units/treasures alone? Or leave your area of influence?

Too difficult to implement, sorry.
(Native Raids does not work that way.)

• Learn the AI to not necessary settle next to each other. Look for good places.

I will try to take a further detailled look at AI at some point.

• Ship of the Line needs to be locked down with research until later in the game. Frigate is obsolete unless we do this.

We can talk about that when we will introduce "Inventions".

• Why do all natives mostly need weapons and guns? They don't even know of them when you get too the new world in the first place. More dynamic system here?

Sorry, too much effort for that.

• We need more ways of lowering Tax...

I have already said, that I will create more DLL-Events.

• Lower the chance of having Native Merc offered. Make them more rare.

Ok, why not.

• Just for the fun of it. What is wrong with Frigates? I loaded 10 times with random seed on and lost 10 times to a privateer? 80% chance of success. Are the Odds calculated correctly?

• For strategic purposes would it be great to be able to destroy a road with Hardy Pioneer. Techology?

Are you talking about your own roads ?
(Otherwise pillaging should work.)

• Have more information about who AI is friendly with and who they hate. More advanced Foreign Advisor.

Robert will like that idea.

• Bigger consequences when you are dealing with biggest enemies of another nation/friend.

Something like "biggest" enemy does not exist for AI ...
Also, sounds like too much effort for me.

• Need a way to prevent a settlement importing more items than needed just so it can sell it at Warehouse Expansion. Weapons/Tools/Horses is examples of such items.

• Need a way to choose what items Warehouse Expansion/Custom House should sell.

Possible, if somebody will implement it.
(I am absolutely not good at screens.)

• Customhouse sell non blockaded wares at 80% of Europe price? And boycotted wares at 60%? And still pay tax? We need to do the math on this thing and see if we can tweak it. I hardly earn any cash in mid/late game because I am taxed to death. Smugglehouse?

Definitely "no" smugglehouse from my side.
We are not going to bring in cheats.
You have high taxes, live with it.

I thought you would be happy to get "Customhouse selling boycotted goods" and now you are asking for even more ?
Don't you think that this will seriously go into direction of cheating ?

• Information screen like in Col94 where you could see how much rebel sentiment each nation got and colonists ect. Not sure how it was solved in col94. Maybe some kind of spy feature.

Spy feature is one of the things I had in mind.
AI could never use that wisely and thus I gave up that idea.

• Big buildings like Cathedral, University and so on is too cheap to build.

Could be a little more expensive, yes.

• Event Tweak: Instead of having a random King offer his help first turn after Independence is declared why not have it like in Col94 when you will get a notification that if you can get 100000 liberty bells a random selected king except of course your own will come to your rescue. Maybe also offer a little bit more help? Seriously only one Man'o'War? This way you can also use Political/Military Points for something.

Too much effort for almost no result.
Also, when I created that DLL-Event, it was supposed to be a small addition and not totally change balance.

• Learn By Doing Tweak: Why not tie Learn by doing up to what kind of educational building is in a settlement or maybe how many educational points is created in a settlement. If you are using learning by doing feature in town by a free colonists learning to be farmer. So if there is a schoolhouse it would be normal, a then Collage a bit faster and a University a lot faster?

"Learning by Doing" means "Learning by Doing".
Why should it be related to some educational building ?

• Ability to ask Natives to ask Natives to attack the King after Independence has begun. I dont seem to be able to get Natives to attack the King. Stirring up the natives vs King???

Actually it is theoretically possible to get Natives to attack you king but it is extremely unprobable (because of relations).

Stirring Up cannot be directed !

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

Maybe cannons/garrisons needs to take longer to build too. I am spamming out those and King never stood a chance.

 

[raystuttgart]

Maybe cannons/garrisons needs to take longer to build too.

This will change anyways very drastically in Release 2 (or maybe in Release 3), when Cannons become a Profession.

 

[raystuttgart]

I will try to create some DLL-Diplo-Events with other Kings for Release 1 if nobody disagrees.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

You and Androrc are right !

@Robert:
Would you like to do that ?
(For Release 1, whenever you have time.)

Well, we would have to discuss this thoroughly.
- How many traits does a player have? Two or Three? (1+1 or 1+2)
- Nation Traits: Which ones? Do we simply put Vanilla traits back? I'm not sure... (balancing issues, and what about Portugal)?
- And what about the other traits.
- And don't forget the starting units. Starting units and traits are related.
- In the long term, I'd like to relate Traits and Inventions, Traits and winds etc...
(Especially for Portugal)

I've started testing the game.
Before I start, I often try many options. I open each screen, and open the worldbuilder, edit some stuff, then reload the game etc... So I haven't reached turn 100 yet... Sorry. But, don't worry, I'll send you the files ASAP.

I've noticed two or three things:
- There are some incorrect french gametexts (from Vanilla, I guess!)
- I've tried to re-compile CvGameCoreDLL.dll in vain -> 19 errors related to CvDLLPython.obj (I'll send you the message, something about an "unknown external symbol", "void" in 19 "Cy***" files. Is this normal.
- I've tested FaireWether.py. It's really a pity you can't choose Sea Level...
- You've changed GameSpeed back to it's original value (300 turns..) Or is it TAC 2.02d?
- The number of natives on a standard size map is lower than in vanilla game (7 against 8, if I'm correct)

For now nothing seems wrong. So for now I'm not much of a help.

And yes, you can implement the "DLL-Diplo-Events with other Kings" feature !
I like it !

 

[raystuttgart]

- You've changed GameSpeed back to it's original value (300 turns..) Or is it TAC 2.02d?

That is TAC 2.02d.
But do not worry !
This does not mean that game is over after 300 turns.
(Game will still continue unless you have "Europe / Roundlimit" as Game Option.