[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[raystuttgart]

Maybe we must remove the feature until it works correctly.

I am not sure it is Winds And Storms.
(It was just a guess. Maybe it is something totally different. )

But even if the cause is within that feature, it would be much better to find the bug and fix it, than removing the feature.

@Robert / orlanth:

Could the 2 of you please try to find the bug ?
I am currently in the middle of finishing my work for economy and cannot simply stop it.

As I said, sometimes it is necessary to click through many many rounds.
But at some point a CTD or endless round timer has always happened to me in all of my 5 tries to provoke it.

 

[orlanth]

Unfortunately I'm not sure how to use a Debug DLL, I had tried with 2071 but never got it to work successfully when trying with Visual Studio.

Until it's working, maybe we could use the simpler static feature generation for Storms that doesn't need DLL change (using moderate Appearance rate and huge Disappearance rate so they happen occasionally and don't persist more than 1 turn), and we could then return to using the standard AI to restore stability. I think that's a fine system if it would improve stability. If each turn is a season, storms can simply appear briefly and don't need to move in a specific complicated way to be realistic.

I have taken a look at the list of features planned for later releases (after Release 1).
I would like to put some of them into the Archive.
(Meaning to remove them from our plans.)

Yes, its best to try to simplify a bit while focusing on things that would add maximum fun and minimum AI problems and maintain stability. We've now accomplished a lot; though there's still quite a lot of work to focus on with plenty of interesting major new features such as Domestic Market, Inventions, Religion, and Independence War changes.

I can see that multiple military Professions which have different requirements for multiple different yields seem like they could create problems for AI military becoming worse managed than humans, which is important. But if everyone can be assured access to a good basic military, it could be interesting to have some military yields which can supplement that with more advanced units. Perhaps we could have Cannons function as a Unit as in the regular game (since the crews are proportionally much less than in a musket regiment), but substitute our Cannons yield instead of Muskets being needed to construct these and warships?

I like Robert's idea about inventions allowing some Improvements grow to a more advanced stage.

About the withdrawal, it looks like we already have iWithdrawalChange in promotioninfos and iWithdrawalProb in unitinfos. When Inventions are added, I think these could be used to give a withdrawal promotion to an appropriate CombatType if you want. So that's probably enough configuration options without needing to change DLL further.

 

[colonialfan]

Hi guys,

Sorry I forgot to put a comment in the SVN, but I added English text to Statue of Governor and La Salle to the colopedia.

 

[raystuttgart]

Until it's working, maybe we could use the simpler static feature generation for Storms ...

As I said, I do not know for sure what causes the bug.
And I currently cannot analyze properly because I am in the middle of creating something.

That Winds and Storms could be the reason was nothing more than a guess.

We will not remove a feature before we know that it causes a problem.
And even then, we will first try to fix the problem.
Removing a team members work is the absolutely last alternative if everything else fails.

Ok, after I have implemented my current work package I will go bug hunting.
(But help finding and analyzing the problem is highly appreciated of course.)

No need to panic.
Bugs can be fixed but it is often a pretty difficult task to find the actual cause ...

I added English text to Statue of Governor and La Salle to the colopedia.

Great.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

As I said, I do not know for sure what causes the bug.
And I currently cannot analyze properly because I am in the middle of creating something.

That Winds and Storms could be the reason was nothing more than a guess.

We will not remove a feature before we know that it causes a problem.
And even then, we will first try to fix the problem.
Removing a team members work is the absolutely last alternative if everything else fails.

Ok, after I have implemented my current work package I will go bug hunting.
(But help finding and analyzing the problem is highly appreciated of course.)

No need to panic.
Bugs can be fixed but it is often a pretty difficult task to find the actual cause ...



Great.

Hi everyone,

I'll have some time to check this out. However I don't know how to use DLL Debug
I would really like to learn.

If my last implementation is faulty, it will not be hard to find.
I'll check lines 6940 to 6954 in CvPlot.cpp. If I'm responsible for those CTD, I'm almost certain the problem comes from here (maybe I forgot an exception... related to bonuses on ocean plots? Or coast plots? )
Again, I'll have some time to check, and I'm willing to help. (I can even set bGeneratedEveryRound to 0 and see if game still crashes. If it doesn't crash anymore, those lines are definitively faulty !)

 

[raystuttgart]

@Robert:

Please first try to click through many rounds (maybe even 50 or 100).
At some point a CTD or endless turn time should appear to you, too.

Then, please try to do the same after commenting out your code.
If then it is possible to click through 100 rounds without CTD or endless turn,
chances are high, that something is wrong there.

If not, it is probably something else.

Also, please turn on "Automatic Saves every round".
Maybe you could find out what causes the bug by analyzing the last save before a crash (trying what happens after deleting units or ships or something else different).

As I said, when I am done with my current work, I will start bug hunting, too.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

@Robert:

Please first try to click through many rounds (maybe even 50 or 100).
At some point a CTD or endless turn time should appear to you, too.

Then, please try to do the same after commenting out your code.
If then it is possible to click through 100 rounds without CTD or endless turn,
chances are high, that something is wrong there.

If not, it is probably something else.

Also, please turn on "Automatic Saves every round".
Maybe you could find out what causes the bug by analyzing the last save before a crash (trying what happens after deleting units or ships or something else different).

As I said, when I am done with my current work, I will start bug hunting, too.

OK.

What about DLL Debug? Do you know where I could learn to use it?

 

[raystuttgart]

What about DLL Debug? Do you know where I could learn to use it ?

I was just searching for a good tutorial but did not yet find one ...

Also, working with a Debug DLL is not necessarily fast or easy either.

For really localizing a bug you often need many many debug points and thus debugging takes incredibly long ...

I myself much more prefer to simply use my brain because it is usually much faster.
(Analyzing a save and what happens when I change certain things either in the save or in DLL.)

Edit:

Try these links:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=10018
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=166933
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=314201
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=330250

 

[raystuttgart]

@Robert:

I just did a small modification to Winds and Storms.

They will now also be generated at initial Map Generation when Using a MapScript.
(Just in case you were thinking about also adding that.)

Since existing Maps (WorldbuilderSaves) don't use FeatureGeneration, we will need to place our initial Winds and Storms manually there.

I will upload it together with my other changes, once I am done with my current work.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I have added the ability to our mod to define Random Goodies in Maps.
(I really don't know, why Firaxis never implemented this. )

To do so, you simply need to put this into the description of the Map:
Randomize Goodies=true

 

[Sanotra]

Randomize Goodies=true

Awesome!

Edit: What file did you alter to affect this, and can it be implemented in TAC or Vanilla?

 

[raystuttgart]

Awesome!

Thanks.

Edit: What file did you alter to affect this, and can it be implemented in TAC or Vanilla?

Everything I do could theoretically be implemented in TAC or Vanilla.
(It just needs a programmer to adopt my changes.)

But I am modding for Religion and Revolution only.
(TAC does not implement new features any more.)

So if any modder wants to extract any of our features after our release there is nothing that speaks against it.

 

[Sanotra]

(TAC does not implement new features any more.)

I've already added a few things to my TAC folders to make the game more enjoyable. Mostly graphical things, but I am sure that extracting this feature won't be too difficult, I suppose it just won't be playable by people who don't have the new code?

 

[Schmiddie]

But you could make some screenshots and show them in the thread "graphics / interesting features we might use".

You could also upload the folder "assets" of your tac game with the changed things into the "transfer" SVN folder (and please give the folder a meaningful name ). By the way - do you already know how to use SVN?

I would like to see what you have added.

Did you add new things or did you change existing graphics?

 

[Sanotra]

I would like to see what you have added.

Did you add new things or did you change existing graphics?

Oh sorry, you must think that I've created original work. I have not, not yet. I've simply put files from other mods into my TAC folders. Nothing too creative about that. I shouldn't be noted as a fellow graphical artist just yet. I do have Blender, Nifskope, and Gimpshop installed on to my computer, and I have experimented with some .dds files, but I haven't created anything original yet. Right now I am trying to figure out exactly what I am looking at when I open the terrain files. When I have a clue what I am doing, I plan on enhancing the graphical quality of the games terrain. Wish I had something to show you.

 

[Schmiddie]

Ah, ok. No problem.

Blender, nifskope and gimp are usefull tools to create new buildings - if you have had some training, you will find out how to use them.

Here are two new buildings I have created today:

Vinyard (Level 2):

Brewers House (Level 1):

 

[orlanth]

Blender, nifskope and gimp are usefull tools to create new buildings - if you have had some training, you will find out how to use them.

nice Brewer and Vineyard! Schmiddie I think you now qualify as an Expert Nifskoper

When I have a clue what I am doing, I plan on enhancing the graphical quality of the games terrain. Wish I had something to show you.

That sounds cool, keep us posted with any updates. As you may know, the entries in XML/Art/ArtDefines_Terrain.xml point to three dds textures in Art/Terrains/Textures which you can edit in gimp or photoshop. The one ending in "Blend" is the basic texture, "Grids" is the same thing with the map grid on, and "Detail" adds details in a way I don't fully understand. Sub-parts of the dds texture fit together to make tiles in a complicated way; but if you avoid changing the existing shapes and coastal outlines of the current textures and just focus on the texture color and detail you should be ok. It could be worth taking a look at the terrain textures in Master of Mana ; their new Grass, Plains and Desert look the best I have seen in any mod.

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I have just uploaded the next big package for Economy.
(Produtionlines Spices, Salt, Furniture, Beer, Wine)

Massive amounts of changes involved, so please get current revision.
(DLL, XML, Python, Art, Gamefonts)

Also, please somebody test, to make sure I did not forget to upload anything.

@Robert:
It would be great if you could merge your changes for the Adivsor Screens.
Thus I can finish my work for SpecialBuildingIcons.

@Schmiddie:
I did not put graphics for the Buildings of the Productionlines in there, since you have already been working on all of them.
ArtDefines are already prepared, so you can simply put your graphics in.

-------------

In the next days I will be searching for the reasons of the CTDs and endless turn times.

 

[Sanotra]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Orlanth, those terrain changes in Master of Mana look sweet.

 

[Schmiddie]

Hi Folks,

I have uploaded and implemented the graphics for the new buildings (production chain winery, cabinetmaker, brewery and spicetrader).

And by the way: I really like the buttons of the new goods and the graphic of the wind and storm feature!