[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I have added Zapotec and Guarani to our mod.
(It is uploaded to SVN.)

Again:

Please somebody test if it is working.

They are fully functional and balanced. Thus you can play with them in our Mod.
(Mostly small graphical improvement and eventually improvement of texts is needed.)

If somebody notices anything, let me know.


@KJ:

It would be great, if you could take care of some graphics.

These are the things that still need to be done:

1. Flags for these 2 Nations need to be created.
2. Playercolors need to be chosen.

This should be done:

3. Nationspecific Unitgraphics

Please adjust the ones you find here:
...\Assets\Art\units\Zapotec
...\Assets\Art\units\Guarani

@colonialfan:

Could you please check (and eventually improve):
CIV4GameText_RaR_New_Nations.xml

 

[raystuttgart]

@team:

I think I would really like to have Bonus-Ressource Turkeys.
(Nothing special, simply +2 Food.)

I can already see my colonists having a crispy roasted Turkey for Thanksgiving.

Also Melons would be great.
(Also simply +2 Food. They originally came from South America.)

I also think, that some bonus-ressources like that add a little atmosphere and variety to the game.

Can I have it please.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

I don't see why not

 

[colonialfan]

Ok by me.

 

[raystuttgart]

Another crazy feature idea.
(It is one of my many old concepts. It is not really important to me.)

Leaders as Units on Map

Currently leaders only appear through Diplomacy.
This could be changed.
Leaders could also be Units on Map.

1. Creation of Leader Unit

Natives:
Created in Capitol village.

Europeans:
Variant A: Every European starts with 2 ships. Leader is in one of them.
Variant B: Leader is created, when first settlement is founded.

Kings:
No leaders on map.

2. Graphics

There are many nice graphics out there, which we could use for European Leader Units.
Natives could use graphics of "Great Warrior" or also get new ones.

3. Usage

Leaders would be Units without being able to take professions.
They will be about as strong as a Scout.

Leaders can do the following:

A) Be used like Scouts and would get the same Bonis as experienced Scouts considering talking to Natives and Treasures.
B) Be used like Generals to lead a stack of Units in War and would also get the same Boni.
C) Be stationed (fortified) in a City and thus giving production bonus of 10%.

4. Imprisoning a Leader

Imprisoning a leader by attacking and destroying a Leader Unit is only possible during War.

When imprisoning a leader a Diplo-Dialogue with that leader will come up.
(Technically imprisoning means the leader is destroyed and regenerated later either in his Capitol or in Europe if no City exists.)

Case Human imprisons AI or other Human:

In the Diplo-Dialog the leader will discuss your conditions to let him free again.
Within the Diplo-Dialogue you will have several options:

1. Force peace without demanding ransom. -> War ends and attitude of AI improves (if AI)
2. Force peace and demand ransom (50% of gold). -> War ends, you get the gold and attitude of AI gets a little worse (if AI)
3. Demand ransom (100% of gold) without peace. -> Get the gold and attitude of AI gets much worse (if AI)

Options only available if imprisoned AI is Native:
4. Force peace and demand ransom (50% of all goods stored in villages) -> War ends, goods "beamed" to capitol and attitude of AI gets a little worse (if AI)
5. Demand ransom (100% of all goods stored in villages) without peace. -> Goods "beamed" to capitol and attitude of AI gets much worse (if AI)

If other player is Human, he will simply get notified of the choice.

Case Human gets imprisoned by AI

AI will simply inform you about its decision.
(Also Diplo-Dialog.)

Human weaker or almost equal to AI: You pay 100% of gold.
Human stronger than AI: War ends and you pay 50% of gold.
Human much stronger than AI: War ends.

Case AI gets captured by AI

Without Diplo-Dialog.

Imprisoned Player European:
Imprisoned Player weaker or equal: Imprisoned Player pays 100% of gold.
Imprisoned Player stronger: War ends and Imprisoned Player pays 50% of gold.
Imprisoned Player much stronger: War ends.

Imprisoned Player Native:
Imprisoned Player weaker or equal: Imprisoned Player pays 100% of goods stored in villages.
Imprisoned Player stronger: War ends and Imprisoned Player pays 50% of goods stored in villages.
Imprisoned Player much stronger: War ends.

5. Special aspects

If a European Leader is imprisoned (and let free of course), his King will increase taxes by 2% as punishment for the player being so uncareful.
(Unless of course you are in War of Independence.)

If a European Leader is imprisoned by Units of his King (during War of Independence), he will have lost the game.

If a European Leader is in Europe it is not possible to declare War of Independence.

If a European Leader is destroyed while on a ship, he is simply regenerated in Capitol or in Europe (if no city exists).
(With message, that he was saved by another ship in a lucky coincidence. However he will also get the 2% tax increase as punishment.)

If your Leader is destroyed by anything else, than another player (e.g. wild Animals) it is pretty much the same as with "destroyed in ship".
(Message would tell something like "Could flee from a great danger in last second ..." )

Of course the "Leader Unit" will be created with the corresponding name of the Leader.

It is not possible to destroy the leader with "Kill"-Button or in any other way.
(Worldbuilder would probably still work, but I simply hope hat players wouldn't do that. Leader would simply be gone then.)

6. UnitAI

In the beginning of the game UnitAI for Leader Unit would pretty much be like scout.
After the "forced peace period" it will simply move to the biggest reachable city and increase production there as long as AI is at peace.
If AI is at war, the leader will be used like a general.

When regenerated, UnitAI will chose behaviour by "Peace / War ?" again.


General remarks:

Basically this would give another strategic option during Wars because you could explicitely hunt other leaders then.

During peace your leaders are relatively safe.
During war and especially War of Independence, you should really take care of them.

As I said, this feature is not really important to me. (It is just one of the many concepts I had created over time.)
It is quite a lot of work. (UnitAI for Leader and all the rest)

Feedback ?

 

[Karl-Heinz]

A general will be destroyed in case of defeat (attached to a unit or not).

Do I have to release a alien leader? Do I get boni if I behold him?

 

[raystuttgart]

A general will be destroyed in case of defeat (attached to a unit or not).

Do I have to release a alien leader? Do I get boni if I behold him?

I know.

"Capturing" technically means, that the unit is destroyed.
(You will not really get the other unit.)

The Diplo-Dialog will simply say, that you captured another leader.

Technically capturing means the leader is destroyed and regenerated either in his Capitol or in Europe if no City exists.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

We could say you are "imprisoning" the enemy leader instead, perhaps? I imagine that would be more intuitive for the players; they would probably expect to have gotten the unit if the text said they captured it.

 

[raystuttgart]

We could say you are "imprisoning" the enemy leader instead, perhaps? I imagine that would be more intuitive for the players; they would probably expect to have gotten the unit if the text said they captured it.

Ok.
But that is only wording / text.

The question is, if the concept / feature itself is interesting or not.
(Would it add fun or would it be disturbing ?)

 

[Karl-Heinz]

I like the concept. The word "imprisoning" is really better.

 

[colonialfan]

I think it could be fun. It would certainly make you more careful during WOI.

 

[Vorpal+5]

I wish to all the modders here a very nice year 2012. May you keep your motivation high, so to provide us a great Colonization mod. I think it is safe to say that many people still want to see a "ultimate" Colonization IV mod one day, something equal to Fall from Heaven or Rise of Mankind for Civ IV... if you get my idea.

So continue your good work, men!

 

[raystuttgart]

I think it is safe to say that many people still want to see a "ultimate" Colonization IV mod one day, ...

That is basically one the "core ideas" of this mod.
(The other one is "having fun with modding".)

We are trying to put together the best features of all CivCol-Mods ever created and add an incredible amout of our own new ideas.

Seriously, there is still so much potential in CivCol that it would be a shame to not continue modding it.

So continue your good work, men!

Thank you.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

I wish to all the modders here a very nice year 2012. May you keep your motivation high, so to provide us a great Colonization mod. I think it is safe to say that many people still want to see a "ultimate" Colonization IV mod one day, something equal to Fall from Heaven or Rise of Mankind for Civ IV... if you get my idea.

So continue your good work, men!

Thank you Vorpal !
Happy new new to you too !

About the idea, it seems nice! There was a game option in Civ 3 (or is it Civ 2?) like this one, if I remember correctly! I'm ok with it, especially if there is a game option deactivating it (if someone doesn't like leaders). But actually I do! But, in my opinion, this shouldn't be our main priority!
I mean the inventions, wind features, economy and religion parts are much more important to me. Maybe I'm getting a little impatient !

 

[raystuttgart]

About the idea, it seems nice!

... game option ...

Sure, it could be a game option.

But, in my opinion, this shouldn't be our main priority!

Of course not.
This feature would be at the very end of our list.
(Release 5 or 6, when all the important things are done.)

For me it is only a "Nice-to-Have", too.

Maybe I'm getting a little impatient !

All of us have very limited time to work on this.

Spoiler :

Currently my personal priorities are:

* Denmark
* New Native Nations
* Rebuild Horses

I simply cannot do more at the same time, sorry.

----------------

However I believe, that we can still have some discussions about further ideas and features for the future.
I would not like to totally stop discussing and brainstorming new ideas, because that is part of the fun for me.

----------------

This is a long term project and will go on for a very long time.
Some patience is absolutely necessary.

 

[orlanth]

I think the leader idea is appealing. However, it does seem to create quite a large amount of work and uncertainty about whether the AI can be trained to handle it without human player exploits, compared to the benefits.

Also, an individual leader wouldn't live the entire game, or always have an overwhelming degree of importance compared to his entire society (eg the US revolution wouldn't be that affected if John Adams were captured or died; they may not even necessarily have agreed huge ransoms for him). So the diplomatic leader is more of an abstract concept than a specific mortal person on the map.

That said, the idea itself is interesting; it could be even better with a few minor colonial leaders. ray, if you're interested in leaders you may want to take a quick look at the Fall Further mod of Civ4bts. If I remember right, I think it has "hero" leader units which can provide a variety of interesting benefits using customizable XML tags. There might be something there that you could adapt if you like.

 

[raystuttgart]

I think the leader idea is appealing.

Yes but I agree, that it is not really important.

However, it does seem to create quite a large amount of work and uncertainty about whether the AI can be trained to handle it without human player exploits, compared to the benefits.

Considering efforts, yes it is quite a lot compared to the benefits.
Considering AI, it is the UnitAI, but that is possible.

Also, an individual leader wouldn't live the entire game, or always have an overwhelming degree of importance compared to his entire society (eg the US revolution wouldn't be that affected if John Adams were captured or died; they may not even necessarily have agreed huge ransoms for him). So the diplomatic leader is more of an abstract concept than a specific mortal person on the map.

The "Diplomatic Leaders" would be just the same as "Leader Units" considering "long life".
Leader Units can not die unless you are in War of Independence.

About the "ransom" I don't see a problem, since this is a game afterall.

That said, the idea itself is interesting; it could be even better with a few minor colonial leaders. ray, if you're interested in leaders you may want to take a quick look at the Fall Further mod of Civ4bts. If I remember right, I think it has "hero" leader units which can provide a variety of interesting benefits using customizable XML tags. There might be something there that you could adapt if you like.

Thanks for the hint, but "heroes" is something I am absolutely not interested in.
We already have generals and other "heroes" would not fit to the atmosphere of colonization to my opinion.
(For implementation of my concept "leaders as units" it won't help.)

 

[Gomer_Pyle]

I have to say that I don't like this leader concept. I feel that this will cause lots of troubles for AI. I would rather have rest of the stuff work before we add more stuff that needs lots of ai programming. I feel the current features really needs more work as it is. Maybe I am a bit of a negative person now. And after all we got Great Generals and ofcourse the players/ai which is the leaders ingame.

 

[raystuttgart]

I have to say that I don't like this leader concept.

Ok, no problem.
Then let us forget it.
(I will put the concept into "Archive".)

I would rather have rest of the stuff work before we add more stuff that needs lots of ai programming.

If at all, the feature was supposed to be implemented in Release 5 or 6 or even later, not now.

I feel the current features really needs more work as it is.

I fully agree.
(After the merge with TAC 2.03 I intend to focus on improving and finetuning.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

However I believe, that we can still have some discussions about further ideas and features for the future.
I would not like to totally stop discussing and brainstorming new ideas, because that is part of the fun for me.

Oh yes of course! I'm sorry, if I made you think I didn't like the brainstorming part...
No! I like it. Let's keep up with this!

All of us have very limited time to work on this.

Spoiler :

Currently my personal priorities are:

* Denmark
* New Native Nations
* Rebuild Horses

I simply cannot do more at the same time, sorry.

Well ! You're actually probably doing more than me! I know, I don't have much time either. I wasn't complaining...

This is a long term project and will go on for a very long time.
Some patience is absolutely necessary.

Yes of course!
My choice of words was incorrect. I meant "I'm eager to see our first release" and not "I'm losing my patience!". Impatient was actually in my mind a positive term
Sorry, if I was imprecise.