[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

[Schmiddie]

Ok, the problem with the sub-mod has been solved.

 

[lethiel]

CIVICS REDONE

I decided to try and rebalance the civics that have never been adjusted. It doesn’t seem as difficult as it may sound and I already succeeded in some of this so I expect to be successful in a while. (Some of it I don’t know yet). Let me know if you want to use it for the mod and what you think of these changes - also implementability. I’m open for suggestions. These are the goals that should be satisfied:

• Each alternative should be about equally powerful to its counterpart.
• Represent a long term strategic alternative!
• The effect should also be "plausible". (How could keeping slavery in the colony (no change) suddenly increase its capability by 50%)?
• Be historically "sound".


Plan:
All men are free

Faster learning by doing
+30% education

All indentured servants replaced by free colonists. (tricky to implement - very fast learning by doing, maybe)

Slavery

+20% to all yields - not 50%.
Slaves +1 on field plots, converted natives +1 on field plots (extra)

Elections

Can still trade with Europe but chance of being intercepted at sea by your king (Europe and Africa)(ship lost before arrival, risk around 50%),
Fixed 45% discriminary " foreigner" tax in Europe/ Africa.

50% bells in all cities.
+1 on all crafted good. (Made in buildings) (hard but not impossible to implement)


Monarchy

Can trade with Europe but chance of being intercepted at sea (Europe and Africa) (ship lost before arrival, risk around 30%)
Lower chance of being intercepted
Fixed 35 %"foreigner" import tax in Europe/ Africa

2 Extra random weapons from King of other European that are >= pleased (from: artillery, mortar, Hessian, ranger, veteran solder&#8230
Angry Europeans may declare war (aid your king)
Improved relationship with kings (subsequent bonus)


Natives’ rights
As before
+ 2 further relation

Manifest destiny
Unchanged

Right to bear arms

- 15 horses, guns need for equipment. (Citizen self arm)

Controlled arms
Unchanged


Separation of church and state
Old benefits +
Frequent mercenary sale from natives at further 50% off. OR: one- time event giving 2 native mercenaries per positive (>=pleased) native leader.
Missions are 40% more effective.

Theocracy

Unchanged

 

[raystuttgart]

Good luck with this.

-------

About my interests for adding anything new to the mod:

I am not (really) modding or even playing this game anymore.

I am only still active because there were a few (small) bugs reported and I want to leave the mod to community as bugfree as possible.
That is why there is going to be a Release 1.9 upcoming. (I am planning to publish that release in about a week.)

Release 1.9 will contain bugfixes and small improvments only.

So anything that goes beyond that (or cannot be finished and properly tested within the next week) is completely out of my focus.

-------

But that of course does not mean, that others (the community) cannot continue to mod (or modmod).
And hoepfully they will share the work with rest of the community.

So go ahead and have fun modding.

 

[lethiel]

Good luck with this.

-------

About my interests for adding anything new to the mod:

I am not (really) modding or even playing this game anymore.

I am only still active because there were a few (small) bugs reported and I want to leave the mod to community as bugfree as possible.
That is why there is going to be a Release 1.9 upcoming. (I am planning to publish that release in about a week.)

Release 1.9 will contain bugfixes and small improvments only.

So anything that goes beyond that (or cannot be finished and properly tested within the next week) is completely out of my focus.

But that does not mean, that others (the community) cannot continue to mod (or modmod).
And hoepfully they will share the work with rest of the community.

So go ahead and have fun modding.

Yea we all know you are leaving and are very sad to see it. Hopefully someone else will step it up.

 

[raystuttgart]

Hopefully someone else will step it up.

Well, nothing speaks against that some people that like RaR and are interested in modding join forces to start a follow up project.
(Just don't understand why all those modmodders around don't start to cooperate in an organized way ...)

But that sould be a new project.
(Basically just like RaR used TAC for a strating a new project.)

I'd really like to see that.
(Then I'd finally not be responsible for fixing bugs anymore. )

And sorry for repeating so often ...

 

[lethiel]

But that should be a new project.

I don't know how much manpower is left backstage at this point (if its just you??). But I don't see the need for a new mod based on RaR. But there are the very last corners that need to be (could be) grinded (Civics, more events and the like).

 

[raystuttgart]

I don't know how much manpower is left backstage at this point (if its just you??).

From the original team it is just me and Schmiddie that were continuously working on this project within the last months.
(And Schmiddie is also busy with real life.)

Edit:
Of course, there were many modders that gave valuable support from time to time.
But that is still something totally different than really being part of a team to continuously develop a mod.

But I don't see the need for a new mod based on RaR.

I do very much.
For me there needs to be a clean cut.

Because:

1) New modder will have new ideas and visions.

It is very unlikely that all of them fit into the ideas and vision of the original team.

2) It is about taking responsibility.

At the moment, whenever somebody wants to know something or reports a bug about RaR, he turns to me.
(There are people in 3 modding communities that expect my attention.)

But I do not want to take any responsibility for the work of others if I am not involved anymore.

3) A mod or better a modding team of a certain size needs organisation and structures.

Fullscale development of a mod as big as RaR needs good concepts, (code) reviews, quality assurance, continuous improvment and bugfixing,
planning, organisation of cooperative work, communication with community ...

If those things are missing and you simply throw together the work of different people, you will only end up with something unplaybable because it is unbalanced and bugged.

-----

See, I am trying to leave this mod as clean and playable as possible for community.
I am also still around to give a little support for new modders.

But please don't expect more.

 

[lethiel]

For me there needs to be a clean cut.

1) New modder will have new ideas and visions.

It is very unlikely that all of them fit into the ideas and vision of the original team.

2) It is about taking responsibility.

At the moment, whenever somebody wants to know something or reports a bug about RaR, he turns to me.

But please don't expect more.

Your work and effort is very admirable and IMO above what can be expected. I would never expect to receive an answer/ solution immediately. Are you sure you are not imposing the pressure on yourself? If I were to control a voluntary mod and had not enough time to correct a bug I would ask people to play the previous release until timer permits to correct it. If no effort is around nothing will be done.

You could give the charge to me if that will allow you to calm down and stick around at a lower rate. But I wont be near half as active as you are. I will solve things when time permits and to my ability (which right now is not enormous).

 

[raystuttgart]

You could give the charge to me if that will allow you to calm down and stick around at a lower rate.

Nope sorry.

The only people that can continue this project are people from the original team.
(Schmiddie, Robert Surcouf, ...)

Anybody else shall do so in a new project.
Simply because it is a new project then.

There will be new ideas and visions, new people that take responsibility and new ways of handling things.

Edit:
I don't see any problem in that approach.
Modders (or ModModders) can use RaR for their work and are free to do whatever they want.

 

[lethiel]

Fullscale development of a mod as big as RaR needs good concepts, (code) reviews, quality assurance, continuous improvment and bugfixing,
planning, organisation of cooperative work, communication with community ...

If those things are missing and you simply throw together the work of different people, you will only end up with something unplaybable because it is unbalanced and bugged.

That's why I dont see a new mod being created but simply small refinements of this one according to what people initiate. No extra small (good) feature will stop this from being playable.

 

[raystuttgart]

That's why I dont see a new mod being created but simply small refinements of this one according to what people initiate.

Then go ahead and create those small enhancements.
You are free and actually very welcome to do so.

They will simply not be published as "Religion and Revolution" but as "lethiel's modmod for Religion and Revolution" or whatever you want to call it.
(And maybe some other modmodder will merge it with his work then.)

 

[lethiel]

Then go ahead and create those small enhancements.
You are free and actually very welcome to do so.

They will simply not be published as "Religion and Revolution" but as "lethiel's modmod for Religion and Revolution" or whatever you want to call it.
(And maybe some other modmodder will merge it with his work then.)

Okay so you basically don't want any changes to RaR now. Its all very simple then. (close down the development section). Congratulations on the FINAL VERSION of RELIGION AND REVOLUTION.

 

[vetiarvind]

Couldn't resist posting this.

 

[raystuttgart]

Couldn't resist posting this.

@lethiel:

There is no need to argue.

If you want to modmod RaR, simply do it.
As I said, you are very welcome to do so.

Do it alone or join forces with others, it is up to you.
But if you want to publish it, do it under your responsibility as a new project.

That way everybody will be happy.
Modmodders can do whatever they want, community can play those modmods and I will not have any work.

Edit:

As I had promissed, there will be Release 1.9 coming up soon in about a week.
(Bugfixes of the issues reported since the last release and a few other small improvments.)

 

[lethiel]

I fully respect your choice. And I mean it - congratulations on and thanks for a great mod. I'm however not going to start a new project. I'll spare myself for the apparent risk of ulcer (sorry couldn't resist )

 

[vetiarvind]

I don't know how much manpower is left backstage at this point (if its just you??). But I don't see the need for a new mod based on RaR. But there are the very last corners that need to be (could be) grinded (Civics, more events and the like).

It is not fair to "expect" someone to implement your ideas in their mod, even if it feels like our system is better than the existing. That is the whole point of having modmods. Maybe they like it and integrate it, maybe they don't. That being said, I would be very interested in trying out your modmod. Also, a stable release 1.9 might be good for modmodders like yourself since you would not have to keep updating your modmod to new releases and can implement your ideas with total freedom.

CIVICS REDONE
I decided to try and rebalance the civics that have never been adjusted. It doesn’t seem as difficult as it may sound and I already succeeded in some of this so I expect to be successful in a while.

 

[raystuttgart]

That is the exactly the point.
People have different ideas and visions and different ways of doing things.

Spoiler :

When the old TAC team decided that they wanted to stop TAC base mod and were not interested in my new features anymore,
I was also disappointed or even a bit frustrated because I still saw so much potential for further improvment.

But I simply could not claim the whole TAC base mod and its further development for myself.
That would have been very unfair and not even possible because I was only part of a much bigger team.

If I would have even tried, my old team mates would probably have been very angry at me.
A lot of my ideas and concepts might not have fitted their taste and my ways of modding are different as well.

So I simply started a new project based on TAC (which then later on became Religion and Revolution).
I found people that shared my ideas and vision and we built up a new team and project.

I am not even playing Civ4Col anymore but still I am trying to give community a mod that is fun to play and as bugfree as possible
and modmodders a good base for further modding.
(I invested a lot of heart blood into this project and feel that I owe that much to this mod and its community.)

If people like what we did and want to continue improving or simply changing it, they are very welcome to do so.
All I am asking is that those people give credits to the effort we invested and clearly take responsibility for their own work and thus start a new project (with a new name).

For people of the original team, it is something different of course.
They could simply pick up the work and continue this project, if they ever feel to do so.

Edit:
I hope this topic is finally clarified, since I get tired talking about it.

 

[lethiel]

I guess I imagined to forum to be more open to "the public opinion"/ free debate/ everybody working together/passing on knowledge - since it is the only mod I know of that is comparable to a professional, paid game. Fair enough. I will just stand back.

 

[vetiarvind]

"Open to debate\ideas\passing on knowledge" - Definitely
"Open to modifying the mod based on our taste" - No. But that's why people create modmods

 

[Commander Bello]

The only people that can continue this project are people from the original team.
(Schmiddie, Robert Surcouf, ...)

Anybody else shall do so in a new project.
Simply because it is a new project then.

There will be new ideas and visions, new people that take responsibility and new ways of handling things.

Edit:
I don't see any problem in that approach.
Modders (or ModModders) can use RaR for their work and are free to do whatever they want.

One question regarding this:
In the past you've mentioned that certain sound files are under somebody's copyright.
What does that mean in regards to making use of RaR for a new mod (not a dedicated modmod)?

And could you please specifiy, which files are copyrighted by others and therefore aren't free to use?