Religion - General discussion/unstructured info

[The_J]

We don't have yet a clear overview about the religion, so let's here gather what we can find .

Spoiler :

• 'Religion Overview'; bunch of religious symbols across the top. 'Christianity' selected and blacked out.
• 'Founder Belief', 'Follower Belief', '2nd Founder Belief', 'Enhancer Belief', 'Bonus Belief'. '2nd Founder' and 'Enhancer' unlocked by 'enhancing religion'.
• Byzantines apparently in the game, with the 'Bonus Belief' available to them. UA?

Religions:

1. Buddhism
2. Christianity
3. Confucianism.
4. Hinduism
5. Islam
6. Judaism
7. Shintoism
8. Sikhism.
9. Taoism
10. Mesoamerican religion?
11. Zoroastrianism

"Religion is being integrated in a whole new way that the series has not seen before," Beach told me when we spoke on the phone Tuesday. "We're looking at religions as a brand new way for you to customize the way you're playing your civilization, and sort of take advantage of your play-style, where you are in the game, what path to victory you're pursuing in that game."

You'll start off with a pantheon — a set of gods from, say, Greek or Norse mythology. As you play through different time periods, your religion will evolve and expand, spreading through cities across the world not unlike the "culture" system currently in Civilization V

[...]

There are four categories of beliefs: founder beliefs, follower beliefs, enhancer beliefs, and pantheon beliefs. Each category comes with its own specific bonuses — one bonus, called "Goddess of the Hunt," gives you an extra food modifier. Another bonus, "Holy Order," allows you to buy missionaries to help spread your religion around the map.

The cornerstone of religion is a new currency called faith. Faith is used to purchase beliefs, which are small benefits that shape your nation's religion. Civilizations starting near the coast may wish to purchase the God of the Sea belief, which grants additional production from fishing boats; while mountainous civilizations may prefer the Stone Circle belief, which generates additional faith from stone quarries.

Initially, you are only allowed to purchase one belief. As you progress, a great prophet is born in your nation that lets you purchase two more. This occurs a second time late in the game to complete your five-belief religion. In addition to purchasing beliefs, faith can be used to purchase unique buildings and units that are otherwise unavailable. Faith-generating city-states, wonders, and buildings will also be available.

 

[The_J]

More info in the IGN article:

Building up the faith resource allows your early civilization to form a pantheon. This is a super early version of religion, one that focuses on nature. For instance, if you live amongst a series of mountains you might pick a pantheon of gods that take them into account. Having gods that complement your geography could result in national benefits, such as making stone quarries both a natural resource and a site with religious significance that generates faith.

Every religion is built on a foundation of beliefs. In Gods and Kings this comes down to five of them, chosen by the religion's creator. When you create a pantheon you pick one belief from a pool of twenty or so, and as your religion develops you get to pick more. More specifically, each time your religion produces a great prophet you get to add another two beliefs to your pool. Adding beliefs and growing your religion fast is beneficial, as taking a belief for yourself denies it to other religions.

The beliefs you take in your religion will have long-term repercussions, and can be used to help benefit all types of victory, so they should fit your preferred playstyle. For instance several beliefs fall into what Firaxis calls "Founder Beliefs." These beliefs include ideas such as "Just War," which grants benefits to your military when attacking an enemy city that follows your religion. Another example is "Tithing," which makes all cities that follow your religion, friend or foe, give your civilization money. The point of Founder Beliefs is to build your religion into something that directly benefits your nation, regardless of whether the follows are at home or abroad.

Other beliefs fall into Pantheon (discussed earlier), Enhancer, and Follower categories. Enhancer Beliefs give you access to things like cheaper missionaries, allowing you to spread your religion faster. Follower Beliefs give you access to things like special religious structures, which allow any city who follows your faith to build them and gain access to civic improvements.

Computer Bild Spiele (google translation)

CBS (Computer Bild Spiele): The expansion is titled 'Gods and Kings'. Is religion part of it?
DS (Dennis Shirk): Yes, religion is making a return. Although the fans will see that we are using it in quite a different way from its predecessor.
CBS: In what way different?
DS: At the start every player can form a Pantheon - an early religion, with which access can be gained to up to 3 'beliefs'; those are one-time bonuses. If he happens to be settled in a rocky area, he can choose a belief that adds a religious worship function to every worked quarry. In this way he can accumulate faith.
CBS: What's this faith for?
DS: With that at some point in the game the player receives a great prophet, who calls out a religion. This grants access to two more beliefs, which will become very strong.
The 30 pantheon beliefs are quite good, but the 20 world religion beliefs are in comparison stronger. Those 5 that the player develops, are obtained by him alone. Every belief can be picked only once and that blocks it for all others.
CBS: Does a religion disappear from the game when the civilization that developed it is getting wiped out?
DS: No, that's not how it works. Because world religions are spreading over borders. There are even beliefs which allow a player to ask tribute from every follower of their religion, also from inhabitants of other nations!

 

[Sneaks]

It appears beliefs will essentially function as Culture version 2, which would be disappointing in its own right, but the other elements interest me more:

Being able to used Faith as a manner of currency for buildings and units intrigues me as a modder as it probably means we can then create buildings that can be purchased with other yields.

As I stated in the other thread, the use of the existing peace dove as the Yield Icon is disappointing and seems mildly lazy. I hope that is rectified before release.

 

[anandus]

It seems you can mix & match your own religion based on 5 'beliefs' (6 for Byzantium).

If I understand correctly:
* First you get you Pantheon-belief (when? After a tech?).
* Then after a while (set of turns? A tech?*) you get your first prophet and you can set your founder and follower belief.
* then again after a while you get a second prophet and you can set your 2nd follower belief and enhancer belief.
Edit: * To answer the 'when', apparently it's when you've 'enhanced' your religion. I wonder what that means

Very interesting all in all. It allows for immense customization.
If I'm not mistaken there are ten choices per belief (although the follower belief-pool might be the same so you choose 2 out of that?).

 

[spider1]

From what I'm reading so far, it would seem religion has much more debth than in Civ IV. It would seem religious decisions have a much more wide spread effect than just a bit of diplomacy or money like in IV. If this is actually the case, then I very much welcome a new decision making tree in the game.

 

[Sneaks]

From what I'm reading so far, it would seem religion has much more debth than in Civ IV. It would seem religious decisions have a much more wide spread effect than just a bit of diplomacy or money like in IV. If this is actually the case, then I very much welcome a new decision making tree in the game.

Which also makes me nervous given Civ V AI up til this point.

 

[anandus]

And it seems like a nightmare to balance as well. But we'll see

 

[Prince ByTor]

To have a religion, is it necessarily required to found one, or can you just adopt one that another civ has already founded? If you can just adopt one, would that mean you forfeit the founder bonuses?
I would assume you don't have to found one since there are 11 religions, but you can have more than 11 civs in one game.

 

[anandus]

Interesting question, Prnice ByTor.
Maybe the founder of a religion chooses the founder belief, but when you adopt an existing religion you can make your own choice for the follower belief? That way there could be a religion with sub-branches?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think you found a religion after finding the "resource"

and I don't think unless you possess the 'Holy City' or are the founder of the religion, you rely on what the founder actually selects, I don't think that if you'are just a follower you get to choose the religion.

My only concern is multiple religions. How will that work? Will each city be stuck to one religion?

The feature seems VERY promising, and quite frankly the Peace Dove? I have never seen it before, where does it occur in vanilla game?

 

[Montov]

I also read you can stay an atheist. Not sure what the advantages would be (maybe you can use the Great Prophet for a golden age instead of founding of developing a religion, and don't have negative diplomatic modifiers, but the bonuses with religion look strong. Indeed, balancing is always a big issue for civ.

 

[Sneaks]

I think you found a religion after finding the "resource"

and I don't think unless you possess the 'Holy City' or are the founder of the religion, you rely on what the founder actually selects, I don't think that if you'are just a follower you get to choose the religion.

My only concern is multiple religions. How will that work? Will each city be stuck to one religion?

The feature seems VERY promising, and quite frankly the Peace Dove? I have never seen it before, where does it occur in vanilla game?

Cannot remember where it is in vanilla, but the icon has been in the game files since release. My issue here is primarily within the scope of modding as the inability to add new font icons while using up the few existing ones places modders in a really bad spot.

 

[GeoModder]

A new unit seems to be the missionary. Type of Great Person.

 

[anandus]

10 is almost certainly Tengriism .
Thanks to: http://forums.2kgames.com/showthrea...zation-V-Gods-amp-Kings&p=1507127#post1507127

 

[The_J]

hhmm...http://gara-tengri.blogspot.com/2010/03/religion-of-turks.html ...but that's the only source with such a bird. Any other confirmations?

 

[CivCube]

Interesting. A tech tree that's first-come-first-served. I'm liking this.

 

[The_J]

From here I got to this article (google translation)

CBS: In what way?
DS: At the beginning can train each player a sort of pantheon - an early religion. He earned up to three "Believes", these are one-time bonuses. Located about a player mainly in hilly areas, he chooses a "Believe" from, thanks to the built quarry includes any religious worship. In this way he gained faith.

CBS: What can you do with faith?
DS: Players get the game at some point become a great prophet who proclaims a world religion. This gives them access to two other "Believe"-places that will be very powerful. The 30-pantheon "Believes" are very good, the 20 world-religion "Believes" but much more powerful. The five, who opens the player, he possesses only. Each "Believe" is selected only once and then blocked for everyone else.

CBS: Get out a religion out of the game, when the people who developed it is destroyed?
DS: No, it does not work. Because religions are spreading across national borders. here are even "Believes" that allow the player to be charged by each of its adherents religious taxes - even residents of other countries!

 

[19Mellon73]

Never realized how bad google translate actually is.
Actually had to read the original article to get what was said.

At the beginning every civ can build a kind of pantheon - an early religion. With it it is possible to get up to three "belives", these are unique bonusses. For example, a player settles mainly in hilly area, he would want to choose a belive that grants religious worship for built quarrys. In this way he gain belive.

This way, at some point the players get a great prophet, who declares a world religion.
This gives you access to two additional belive-slots wich are eventually very powerfull.
The 30 Pantheon - belives are really good, but no match for the 20 world religion belives. The five that the player opens up for himselve, are for him alone. each belive is only available once - it's locked for all other players afterwards.

Even if a founder civ doesn't exist anymore a world religion continues to exist. They spread over national frontiers. There are even belives that make it possible for a player to gain a tax revenue from followers of his religion, even beyond borders from citizens of foreign countrys.

Not perfect, but I hope one can get now what actually was said.
And of course it's not my fault, that english spelling and phonetic is not consistent ---

Just realising that Byzantium obviously may open six belives instead of five.
But will it be a fourth pantheon belive or a third world religion belive?

 

[Louis XXIV]

The only thing I can't yet figure out are the benefits of religion to non-founders. I think I just need a greater understanding. I wonder if they've brought back prophets or will it expand by itself only.

There's a quote from Greg saying there will be religious city states. That makes me think Jerusalem will be a city-state. I could also see Nippur (if not taken) and Qom (if not taken). Certainly Mecca will have been taken. Also, they should probably change Lhasa to religious.

 

[jabbawackybacky]

No Mesoamerican/Native American or African religion? Too bad ... other than that it looks fun. I wonder if they will have unique wonders again.